Message 50e5a913p13-10006-309+59.htm, number 127900, was edited on Thu May 25 at 05:08:57
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10006-307+59.htm

UK police stop passing information to US over leaks of key evidence

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Wed May 24, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
. . So if the Guardian is right, the Brits' calculation changes a bit, and they'll tell us less next time.

Not next time - this time:

Officers investigating Manchester Arena bombing take decision as transatlantic row over leaks escalates:

British police have stopped sharing evidence from its investigation into the terror network behind the Manchester bombing with the United States after a series of leaks left investigators and the government furious. The ban is limited to the Manchester investigation only, with British police believing the leaks are unprecedented in their scope, frequency and potential damage . .  

Ian Blair, the former Metropolitan police commissioner during the 2005 London underground bombings on 7/7, said his investigation was also troubled by leaks from US intelligence . . he was sure the leaks had “nothing to do with Trump” given that similar leaks had happened during his own time investigating a terror attack.

“I’m afraid this reminds me exactly of what happened after 7/7, when the US published a complete picture of the way the bombs had been made up. We had the same protests. It’s a different world in how the US operates in the sense of how they publish things. And this is a very grievous breach but I’m afraid it’s the same as before.” .  .

[ This message was edited on Thu May 25 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10006-311+59.htm, number 127902, was posted on Thu May 25 at 05:10:32
in reply to 4b821a108HW-10005-589+5a.htm

Re^2: Careless talk by those who should know better

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Wed May 24, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
So if the Guardian is right, the Brits' calculation changes a bit, and they'll tell us less next time.

On Wed May 24, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
. . So if the Guardian is right, the Brits' calculation changes a bit, and they'll tell us less next time.

Not next time - this time:

Officers investigating Manchester Arena bombing take decision as transatlantic row over leaks escalates:

British police have stopped sharing evidence from its investigation into the terror network behind the Manchester bombing with the United States after a series of leaks left investigators and the government furious. The ban is limited to the Manchester investigation only, with British police believing the leaks are unprecedented in their scope, frequency and potential damage . .  

Ian Blair, the former Metropolitan police commissioner during the 2005 London underground bombings on 7/7, said his investigation was also troubled by leaks from US intelligence . . he was sure the leaks had “nothing to do with Trump” given that similar leaks had happened during his own time investigating a terror attack.

“I’m afraid this reminds me exactly of what happened after 7/7, when the US published a complete picture of the way the bombs had been made up. We had the same protests. It’s a different world in how the US operates in the sense of how they publish things. And this is a very grievous breach but I’m afraid it’s the same as before.” .  .


Message 50e5a913p13-10006-312+59.htm, number 127902, was edited on Thu May 25 at 05:11:43
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10006-311+59.htm

Re^2: Careless talk by those who should know better

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



On Wed May 24, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
. . So if the Guardian is right, the Brits' calculation changes a bit, and they'll tell us less next time.

Not next time - this time:

Officers investigating Manchester Arena bombing take decision as transatlantic row over leaks escalates:

British police have stopped sharing evidence from its investigation into the terror network behind the Manchester bombing with the United States after a series of leaks left investigators and the government furious. The ban is limited to the Manchester investigation only, with British police believing the leaks are unprecedented in their scope, frequency and potential damage . .  

Ian Blair, the former Metropolitan police commissioner during the 2005 London underground bombings on 7/7, said his investigation was also troubled by leaks from US intelligence . . he was sure the leaks had “nothing to do with Trump” given that similar leaks had happened during his own time investigating a terror attack.

“I’m afraid this reminds me exactly of what happened after 7/7, when the US published a complete picture of the way the bombs had been made up. We had the same protests. It’s a different world in how the US operates in the sense of how they publish things. And this is a very grievous breach but I’m afraid it’s the same as before.” .  .

[www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/25/uk-police-stop-passing-information-to-us-over-leaks-of-key-evidence]

Live updates: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/may/25/manchester-attack-police-raids-terror-network-live-updates

[ This message was edited on Thu May 25 by the author ]


Message 3261d7828YV-10006-899+1b.htm, number 127903, was posted on Thu May 25 at 14:59:29
in reply to 4b821a108HW-10004-944+1d.htm

Re: Its Iodine

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


But if you just tell people they are allergic to 'iodine', they have no idea what foods have iodine...so.  My health records say "Iodine".  

But, this reminds me of a tragic incident that happened at one of the hospitals I used to work at.  An awake and alert ICU patient with a stated "seafood" allergy received a dinner tray with a fish entree.  The RN tried to take the tray away from the patient and provide an alternate meal.  The patient wanted to know what kind of fish he had been served, and when the kitchen identified the fish, he decided it wasn't the type he was allergic to and insisted on eating the meal.  Of course he went into anaphylatic shock and they couldn't intubate him in time even though he was in an ICU and they were aware of the possiblity.

So...



On Tue May 23, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>1) My sympathies to your daughter.  All melons?  Such a shame.

>2) "Seafood no matter how well it is cooked":  I gotta believe something different is going on in the case of seafood.  Whatever proteins (proteins?) I'm reacting to in fruit and vegetables are changed, destroyed, denatured in some way by cooking.  But with seafood...well, I guess it isn't that different; it's just a different set of proteins that retain their structure, right?

>And I'm curious about this seafood thing in general:  It's so often stated just that way, plain "seafood", but is it usually all seafood?  So many allergies are idiosyncratic; in reality is it just some seafoods, and a different set of seafoods for different people?  Clams for some, tuna for others, eels for a third?  If it's all seafoods for everyone, that seems kind of odd considering how much variety there is in allergies.

>On Mon May 22, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>they can go from mildly annoying to life-threatening between one exposure to the next...allergies do not an follow a measured progression of reactions. No strings on them!

>>My daughter, who has the 'tingly' mouth syndrome, turns out to be allergic to melons, which sadly lose everything pleasing about them when heat is applied.  She also has a histamine reaction to anti-histamines.  I react to seafood no matter how well it is cooked.

>>Be careful in your experimentation.  Consider visiting an allergist if you're really curious.  I think you may have already played your 'dragged back from the precipice' card for this go round.  Actually, all of my favorite brainiacs have done so, hmmmm.

>>On Mon May 22, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>Jan, I just saw this NPR article about something we discussed a few years ago.  The headline reads "If Raw Fruits Or Veggies Give You A Tingly Mouth, It's A Real Syndrome".  I've known about this for years, but now they've given it a name (oh, woopie).  The article confirms what I said before, that the symptoms are mild, annoying rather than life-threatening.  It also mentions that cooking the offending foods denatures the proteins I'm reacting to—or rather the article says it "might help", but in my case at least it's a reliable and complete solution.  And it says a few things I didn't know: that peeling might help, as the proteins tend to concentrate in the skin, and also that symptoms tend to be worse during hay-fever season.  I knew that these mild food allergies are associated with hay fever, but I've never noticed that they're seasonal themselves; I'll have to watch for that to see.

>>>


Message aeda84bf00A-10007-373-07.htm, number 127904, was posted on Fri May 26 at 06:12:49
"....boas he had beheld...."

Whoreson Beast


animalbehaviorandcognition.org/uploads/journals/14/02%20Feb2017%20Dinets_HH(7)_final.pdf

Cuban snakes that hunt in packs.  

Stephen would be elated; for my part: NOPE NOPE NOPE!


Message 50e5a913p13-10007-430+07.htm, number 127905, was posted on Fri May 26 at 07:10:25
in reply to aeda84bf00A-10007-373-07.htm

Re: "....boas he had beheld...."

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri May 26, Whoreson Beast wrote
-----------------------------------
>animalbehaviorandcognition.org/uploads/journals/14/02%20Feb2017%20Dinets_HH(7)_final.pdf
…………
‘ . . Discussion: The present study suggests that boas take the positions of other individuals into account when choosing the hunting location. They position themselves in a way that allows them to form a barrier  across a cave passage. This significantly improves the effectiveness of the hunt, apparently because they can most effectively block the prey’s flight path and easily intercept passing bats.

This is the first scientifically documented case of coordinated hunting by snakes. It is also the first study on reptiles to statistically test for coordination between hunters and to show that coordination increases hunting success.

Studies of social behavior in reptiles in the wild are few, the prevalence of such behavior appears to be highly underestimated, and many important observations remain unpublished (Doody, Burghardt, & Dinets, 2013). There are videos of a number of snake species hunting in large groups, for example, of banded sea kraits (Laticauda colubrina) hunting in apparent coordination between themselves and with two species of predatory fish (see www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0038t09), and of Galapagos racers (Philodryas biserialis) hunting iguana hatchlings (see www.bbc.com/earth/story/20161114-fromplanet-earth-ii-a-baby-iguana-is-chased-by-snakes), but these observations have never been published scientifically.

It is possible that boas are not unique among snakes, and that coordinated hunting is not particularly rare. This possibility suggests that at least some snakes are not the “solitary animals” they are commonly considered to be, and that they are capable of high behavioral complexity required for such hunting (Bernard et al., 2016). '


Message 4b821a108HW-10007-598+1a.htm, number 127906, was posted on Fri May 26 at 09:58:24
in reply to 3261d7828YV-10006-899+1b.htm

How strange!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I guess that should give pause to Greg House ("Well, it's a good thing he's in a hospital, then!").  Probably won't, though.

On Thu May 25, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>....a tragic incident that happened at one of the hospitals I used to work at.  An awake and alert ICU patient with a stated "seafood" allergy received a dinner tray with a fish entree.  The RN tried to take the tray away from the patient and provide an alternate meal.  The patient wanted to know what kind of fish he had been served, and when the kitchen identified the fish, he decided it wasn't the type he was allergic to and insisted on eating the meal.  Of course he went into anaphylatic shock and they couldn't intubate him in time even though he was in an ICU and they were aware of the possiblity.


Message 4b821a108HW-10007-602+1b.htm, number 127907, was posted on Fri May 26 at 10:01:44
in reply to 6242b02c00A-10005-1136+1d.htm

Excellent!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I like that very much.  I don't know whether I can pull it off, but I can try.

On Wed May 24, YA wrote
-----------------------
>Lol check out this delivery:
>youtube.com/watch?v=ky6rgKDvgLc

>On Wed May 24, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>How many Freudians does it take to change a light bulb?  A: Two.  One to screw in the bulb, and one to hold the penis.  Ladder!—I mean ladder.


Message 3261e5f48YV-10007-713+1a.htm, number 127908, was posted on Fri May 26 at 11:53:03
in reply to 4b821a108HW-10007-598+1a.htm

Re: Not strange at all

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


I'm trying to tell you that there is no way of knowing how severely you will react to the next exposure of something to which you are allergic. Sometimes things just happen too fast for them to be counteracted.

People die in operating rooms; people code while they're in cath lab (the place you go after a heart attack); and some people can't be intubated because of their physiology.

Sh*t happens - I don't think it's a wise idea to play Russian Roulette.

TV shows are NOT a good source for accurate medical information.



On Fri May 26, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>I guess that should give pause to Greg House ("Well, it's a good thing he's in a hospital, then!").  Probably won't, though.

>On Thu May 25, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>....a tragic incident that happened at one of the hospitals I used to work at.  An awake and alert ICU patient with a stated "seafood" allergy received a dinner tray with a fish entree.  The RN tried to take the tray away from the patient and provide an alternate meal.  The patient wanted to know what kind of fish he had been served, and when the kitchen identified the fish, he decided it wasn't the type he was allergic to and insisted on eating the meal.  Of course he went into anaphylatic shock and they couldn't intubate him in time even though he was in an ICU and they were aware of the possiblity.


Message 90a0625f00A-10008-881+0c.htm, number 127909, was posted on Sat May 27 at 14:40:59
in reply to 3261e5f58YV-9993-1270+1b.htm

Re^4: Yeah, no

YA


eh.... Well, it's a commercial, for a commercial product which is probably based on a survey course for non majors. Also, by an MD academic who I trust not to pimp himself out (for anything less than Doctor Oz money). I see Khan academy also has a little something available, or we could get Ben Stein to read the transcript for this course.

Got anything else?

On Fri May 12, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>Seems a tad more fraught with hyperbole than I remember my classes.
>
>
>
>On Fri May 12, YA wrote
>-----------------------
>>Might I suggest www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9p4nrTJcd0  . Haven't seen it myself, but it's on great courses plus,so it's probably good, and we all have subscriptions to gcp, right? Right?
>>
>>
>>
>>On Fri May 12, akatow wrote
>>---------------------------
>>>Bob, I think you could benefit from taking a basic microbiology class - it would answer many questions for you.  Humans should come with an owners manual.

>>


Message 47e54d5c00A-10008-993-07.htm, number 127910, was posted on Sat May 27 at 16:32:46
Discharged Dead: Gregg Allman

The Midnight Rider


www.rollingstone.com/music/news/gregg-allman-southern-rock-legend-dead-at-69-w433068

Message 46d1c8fb00A-10008-1194+07.htm, number 127911, was posted on Sat May 27 at 19:54:09
in reply to 47e54d5c00A-10008-993-07.htm

Re: Discharged Dead: Gregg Allman

Max


The Allman Bros "invented southern rock"? Bo Diddley, Elvis Presley, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly, Muddy Waters, Charlie Daniels, etc.
Was,Ol Greg 10 yet when Rocket 88 was on the charts?



n Sat May 27, The Midnight Rider wrote
---------------------------------------
>www.rollingstone.com/music/news/gregg-allman-southern-rock-legend-dead-at-69-w433068

Message c10b0d08cb5-10009-711-90.htm, number 127912, was posted on Sun May 28 at 11:50:46
Cognitive disorders in the canon.

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com


It suddenly occurred to me that O'Brian's books include a great many more cognitive disorders, or sometimes simple character peculiarities, than most other historical novels... or indeed any novels. We have:

- Stephen's addictions to laudanum and coca leaves (and his evident depression)

- The Teapot

- Diana's chaperone in India, who couldn't help speaking aloud what was in her mind

- Stephen's daughter Brigid's apparent autism

- Padeen's near-inability to speak

- The warrant officer who always mistook his right and his left and lost his life as a result

- Clonfert's obsessive competitiveness and strange illness that caused him to sweat on only one side of his body

- Alcoholism in numerous cases

Whom else am I missing?


Message 46d1c0a100A-10009-874+5a.htm, number 127913, was posted on Sun May 28 at 14:34:05
in reply to c10b0d08cb5-10009-711-90.htm

Re: Cognitive disorders in the canon.

Max


>Whom else am I missing?


Clarrisa: sexual dysfunction

An entire asylum in Boston


Message 47e54d5c00A-10010-402-07.htm, number 127914, was posted on Mon May 29 at 06:41:40
“For navigating smartly, Bill Swallow was the man, who laid a course out neatly to take us to Japan.”

Whoreson Beast


www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/may/28/australian-convict-pirates-in-japan-evidence-of-1830-voyage-unearthe

Message 6c1413d300A-10010-653+59.htm, number 127915, was posted on Mon May 29 at 10:52:53
in reply to c10b0d08cb5-10009-711-90.htm

Re: Cognitive disorders in the canon.

Don Seltzer


Clonfert is certainly near the top of the list of interesting, disturbed characters. He even made such an impression on POB that he had Stephen reflect back on Clonfert many books later, in TGS:

---When they were alone with their coffee Stephen, after a long brooding pause, said, 'Do you remember I once said of Clonfert that for him truth was what he could make others believe? ... I expressed myself badly. What I meant was that if he could induce others to believe what he said, then for him the statement acquired some degree of truth, a reflection of their belief that it was true; and this reflected truth might grow stronger with time and repetition until it became conviction, indistinguishable from ordinary factual truth, or very nearly so.'---

Rev Martin comes to mind.  His secret lustful thoughts about Clarissa Oakes led him to believe that his salt-caused skin sores were some dread venereal disease.

And then there is envoy Fox in TGS.  He is haunted by some dark secret that he wishes to confess to Stephen, who puts him off, not wanting to share the burden.  It is strongly implied that is related to a hidden homosexual past, perhaps related to Ledward in their youth.



On Sun May 28, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>It suddenly occurred to me that O'Brian's books include a great many more cognitive disorders, or sometimes simple character peculiarities, than most other historical novels... or indeed any novels. We have:

>- Stephen's addictions to laudanum and coca leaves (and his evident depression)

>- The Teapot

>- Diana's chaperone in India, who couldn't help speaking aloud what was in her mind

>- Stephen's daughter Brigid's apparent autism

>- Padeen's near-inability to speak

>- The warrant officer who always mistook his right and his left and lost his life as a result

>- Clonfert's obsessive competitiveness and strange illness that caused him to sweat on only one side of his body

>- Alcoholism in numerous cases

>Whom else am I missing?
>


Message aeda814500A-10012-801-07.htm, number 127916, was posted on Wed May 31 at 13:20:42
A 21st Century Line of Battle Ship?

Whoreson Beast


foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/what-a-21st-century-battleship-could-look-like-1795547798

Message 465fd3f38YV-10015-1294-90.htm, number 127917, was posted on Sat Jun 3 at 21:34:31
And I wondered why the freeways were slow at 0730 this morning...

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


Only in California -






That is, of course, the USS Midway behind the cattle.

Message aeda8e8500A-10016-393-07.htm, number 127918, was posted on Sun Jun 4 at 06:33:05
Gedymin Jagiello's countrymen? -- mummified. If we could only consult Stephen

Whoreson Beast


.

n


Message 68cdafa4gpf-10016-1310-07.htm, number 127919, was posted on Sun Jun 4 at 21:50:05
Mark Twain on Bonaparte

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


I just came across this, in 'Life on the Mississippi':

'Against the crimes of the French Revolution and of Bonaparte may be set two compensating benefactions: the revolution broke the chains of the ancient regime and of the Church, and made of a nation of abject slaves a nation of freemen; and Bonaparte instituted the setting of merit above birth, and also so completely stripped the divinity from royalty that whereas crowned heads in Europe were gods before, they are only men, since, and can never be gods again, but only figureheads, and answerable for their acts like common clay. Such benefactions as these compensate the temporary harm which Bonaparte and the revolution did, and leave the world in debt to them for these great and permanent services to liberty, humanity and progress.'

I wonder what Stephen would have said to that. Or Jack, for that matter.

Oddly enough, Twain goes on from there to blame Walter Scott for the backwardness of the South.


Message 46d30ca900A-10017-438+06.htm, number 127920, was posted on Mon Jun 5 at 07:18:12
in reply to 68cdafa4gpf-10016-1310-07.htm

Re: Mark Twain on Sir Walter Scott

Max


twain.lib.virginia.edu/yankee/cyinlife.html

MT makes a good point.




n Sun Jun 4, Joe McWilliams wrote
----------------------------------
>I just came across this, in 'Life on the Mississippi':

>'Against the crimes of the French Revolution and of Bonaparte may be set two compensating benefactions: the revolution broke the chains of the ancient regime and of the Church, and made of a nation of abject slaves a nation of freemen; and Bonaparte instituted the setting of merit above birth, and also so completely stripped the divinity from royalty that whereas crowned heads in Europe were gods before, they are only men, since, and can never be gods again, but only figureheads, and answerable for their acts like common clay. Such benefactions as these compensate the temporary harm which Bonaparte and the revolution did, and leave the world in debt to them for these great and permanent services to liberty, humanity and progress.'

>I wonder what Stephen would have said to that. Or Jack, for that matter.

>Oddly enough, Twain goes on from there to blame Walter Scott for the backwardness of the South.


Message 4747f4808HW-10017-684+06.htm, number 127921, was posted on Mon Jun 5 at 11:24:03
in reply to 46d30ca900A-10017-438+06.htm

Re^2: Mark Twain on Sir Walter Scott

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm all for recognizing clearly the relative merits of realism and fantasy, and for not getting them confused.  In that pursuit, it's well to keep in mind a danger in the opposite direction:  It seems to me that some folks who want to be realists make the mistake of thinking that all laudable ideals are fantasy and all grit, vice and cruelty are real.

In the intro to the article in Max's link, my eye caught on the writer's distinction between "Scott's idealizations of the Middle Ages" and "[Twain's] own 'realistic' attempt to show the same past as it actually was".  I'm reminded of a snippet from The Screwtape Letters:

....there is a sort of attack on the emotions which can still be tried.  It turns on making him feel, when first he sees human remains plastered on a wall, that this is "what the world is really like" and that all his religion has been a fantasy.  You will notice that we have got them completely fogged about the meaning of the word "real".  They tell each other, of some great spiritual experience, "all that really happened was that you heard some music in a lighted building"; here "real" means the bare physical facts, separated from the other elements in the experience they actually had.  On the other hand, they will also say "It's all very well discussing that high dive as you sit here in an armchair, but wait till you get up there and see what it's really like"; here "real" is being used in the opposite sense to mean not the physical facts (which they know already while discussing the matter in armchairs) but the emotional effect those facts will have on a human consciousness.  Either application of the word could be defended; but our business is to keep the two going at once so that the emotional value of the word "real" can be placed now on one side of the account, now on the other, as it happens to suit us.  The general rule which we have now pretty well established among them is that in all experience which can make them happier or better only the physical facts are "real" while the spiritual elements are "subjective"; in all experiences which can discourage or corrupt them, the spiritual elements are the main reality and to ignore them is to be an escapist.  This in birth the blood and pain are "real", the rejoicing a mere subjective point of view; in death, the terror and ugliness reveal what death "really means".  The hatefulness of a hated person is "real"—in hatred you see men as they are, you are disillusioned—but the loveliness of a loved person is merely a subjective haze concealing a "real" core of sexual appetite or economic association.  Wars and poverty are "really" horrible; peace and plenty are mere physical facts about which men happen to have certain sentiments.  The creatures are always accusing one another of wanting "to eat the cake and have it "; but thanks to our labours they are more often in the predicament of paying for the cake and not eating it.  Your patient, properly handled, will have no difficulty in regarding his emotions an the sight of human entrails as a revelation of Reality and his emotion at the sight of happy children or fair weather as mere sentiment.

This is a side hike only, one I took upon reading the intro.  I haven't yet read the Twain article to the end and am not accusing Twain of making this mistake.

On Mon Jun 5, Max wrote
-----------------------
>twain.lib.virginia.edu/yankee/cyinlife.html

>MT makes a good point.

>n Sun Jun 4, Joe McWilliams wrote
>----------------------------------
>>I just came across this, in 'Life on the Mississippi':

>>'Against the crimes of the French Revolution and of Bonaparte may be set two compensating benefactions: the revolution broke the chains of the ancient regime and of the Church, and made of a nation of abject slaves a nation of freemen; and Bonaparte instituted the setting of merit above birth, and also so completely stripped the divinity from royalty that whereas crowned heads in Europe were gods before, they are only men, since, and can never be gods again, but only figureheads, and answerable for their acts like common clay. Such benefactions as these compensate the temporary harm which Bonaparte and the revolution did, and leave the world in debt to them for these great and permanent services to liberty, humanity and progress.'

>>I wonder what Stephen would have said to that. Or Jack, for that matter.

>>Oddly enough, Twain goes on from there to blame Walter Scott for the backwardness of the South.


Message 4747f4808HW-10017-999+06.htm, number 127921, was edited on Mon Jun 5 at 16:39:16
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10017-684+06.htm

Re^2: Mark Twain on Sir Walter Scott

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm all for recognizing clearly the relative merits of realism and fantasy, and for not getting them confused.  In that pursuit, it's well to keep in mind a danger in the opposite direction:  It seems to me that some folks who want to be realists make the mistake of thinking that all laudable ideals are fantasy and all grit, vice and cruelty are real.

In the intro to the article in Max's link, my eye caught on the writer's distinction between "Scott's idealizations of the Middle Ages" and "[Twain's] own 'realistic' attempt to show the same past as it actually was".  I'm reminded of a snippet from The Screwtape Letters:

....there is a sort of attack on the emotions which can still be tried.  It turns on making him feel, when first he sees human remains plastered on a wall, that this is "what the world is really like" and that all his religion has been a fantasy.  You will notice that we have got them completely fogged about the meaning of the word "real".  They tell each other, of some great spiritual experience, "all that really happened was that you heard some music in a lighted building"; here "real" means the bare physical facts, separated from the other elements in the experience they actually had.  On the other hand, they will also say "It's all very well discussing that high dive as you sit here in an armchair, but wait till you get up there and see what it's really like"; here "real" is being used in the opposite sense to mean not the physical facts (which they know already while discussing the matter in armchairs) but the emotional effect those facts will have on a human consciousness.  Either application of the word could be defended; but our business is to keep the two going at once so that the emotional value of the word "real" can be placed now on one side of the account, now on the other, as it happens to suit us.  The general rule which we have now pretty well established among them is that in all experience which can make them happier or better only the physical facts are "real" while the spiritual elements are "subjective"; in all experiences which can discourage or corrupt them, the spiritual elements are the main reality and to ignore them is to be an escapist.  Thus in birth the blood and pain are "real", the rejoicing a mere subjective point of view; in death, the terror and ugliness reveal what death "really means".  The hatefulness of a hated person is "real"—in hatred you see men as they are, you are disillusioned—but the loveliness of a loved person is merely a subjective haze concealing a "real" core of sexual appetite or economic association.  Wars and poverty are "really" horrible; peace and plenty are mere physical facts about which men happen to have certain sentiments.  The creatures are always accusing one another of wanting "to eat the cake and have it "; but thanks to our labours they are more often in the predicament of paying for the cake and not eating it.  Your patient, properly handled, will have no difficulty in regarding his emotions at the sight of human entrails as a revelation of Reality and his emotion at the sight of happy children or fair weather as mere sentiment.

This is a side hike only, one I took upon reading the intro.  I haven't yet read the Twain article to the end and am not accusing Twain of making this mistake.

[Later: Corrected a couple typos.]

On Mon Jun 5, Max wrote
-----------------------
>twain.lib.virginia.edu/yankee/cyinlife.html

>MT makes a good point.

>n Sun Jun 4, Joe McWilliams wrote
>----------------------------------
>>I just came across this, in 'Life on the Mississippi':

>>'Against the crimes of the French Revolution and of Bonaparte may be set two compensating benefactions: the revolution broke the chains of the ancient regime and of the Church, and made of a nation of abject slaves a nation of freemen; and Bonaparte instituted the setting of merit above birth, and also so completely stripped the divinity from royalty that whereas crowned heads in Europe were gods before, they are only men, since, and can never be gods again, but only figureheads, and answerable for their acts like common clay. Such benefactions as these compensate the temporary harm which Bonaparte and the revolution did, and leave the world in debt to them for these great and permanent services to liberty, humanity and progress.'

>>I wonder what Stephen would have said to that. Or Jack, for that matter.

>>Oddly enough, Twain goes on from there to blame Walter Scott for the backwardness of the South.

[ This message was edited on Mon Jun 5 by the author ]


Message 4747f4808HW-10017-1288+06.htm, number 127922, was posted on Mon Jun 5 at 21:28:37
in reply to aeda8e8500A-10016-393-07.htm

Re: Gedymin Jagiello's countrymen? -- mummified. If we could only consult Stephen

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Coïcidentally, I just rewatching Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade:

On Sun Jun 4, Whoreson Beast wrote
----------------------------------
>article


Message 50e5a913p13-10018-841-90.htm, number 127923, was posted on Tue Jun 6 at 14:00:53
Off with their heads: 3D scans reveal Lord Nelson's secrets

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-06 at 18.46.51.png
Wax portrait heads of historical figures captured in extraordinary detail in pioneering partnership of art and science:

Maev Kennedy writes: Adm Lord Horatio Nelson and William Pitt the Younger have travelled together by taxi across the Thames, from their home in Westminster Abbey to St Thomas’ hospital, to have their heads run through some of the most sophisticated scanning equipment in the world in a pioneering partnership of art, conservation and science.

Scanning of the wax portrait heads, made at the time of their deaths in 1805 and 1806, was performed using state-of-the-art equipment owned by Guy’s and St Thomas’, with all the scientists, curators, conservators and abbey staff involved in the project working unpaid overtime . .

The figure – dressed in one of the admiral’s uniforms and a hat with a flap that folds down to protect his blind eye – is startlingly lifelike, a fact vouched for by his mistress, Emma Hamilton, who was barred from his state funeral but brought discreetly into the abbey to see the effigy.

. . Nelson sat for his portrait, made by wax artist Patience Wright, whose double life might have surprised the admiral – she was also an American spy, who enclosed secret messages in the wax busts she sent to the US.

. . The scanning forms part of extensive conservation work on the abbey’s collection, before a new museum opens in 2018 in the triforium, the attic of the church never before open to the public.

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/03/off-with-his-head-3d-scans-reveal-lord-horatio-nelson-william-pitt-secrets]

New tower will reveal hidden world of Westminster Abbey https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/dec/14/new-tower-will-reveal-hidden-world-westminster-abbey


Message 6c1413d300A-10018-1011+5a.htm, number 127924, was posted on Tue Jun 6 at 16:51:06
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10018-841-90.htm

Re: Off with their heads: 3D scans reveal Lord Nelson's secrets

Don Seltzer



...Scanning of the wax portrait heads, made at the time of their deaths in 1805 and 1806,...

... Nelson sat for his portrait, made by wax artist Patience Wright, whose double life might have surprised the admiral – she was also an American spy, who enclosed secret messages in the wax busts she sent to the US.


I am trying to imagine Admiral Nelson sitting for his portrait after his death.  And his willingness to do so for a sculptor who had died two decades earlier, in 1786.


Message 50e5a913p13-10018-1168+5a.htm, number 127923, was edited on Tue Jun 6 at 19:28:26
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10018-841-90.htm

Off with their heads: 3D scans reveal Lord Nelson's secrets

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-06 at 18.46.51.png
Wax portrait heads of historical figures captured in extraordinary detail in pioneering partnership of art and science:

Maev Kennedy writes: Adm Lord Horatio Nelson and William Pitt the Younger have travelled together by taxi across the Thames, from their home in Westminster Abbey to St Thomas’ hospital, to have their heads run through some of the most sophisticated scanning equipment in the world in a pioneering partnership of art, conservation and science.

Scanning of the wax portrait heads, made at the time of their deaths in 1805 and 1806, was performed using state-of-the-art equipment owned by Guy’s and St Thomas’, with all the scientists, curators, conservators and abbey staff involved in the project working unpaid overtime . .

The figure – dressed in one of the admiral’s uniforms and a hat with a flap that folds down to protect his blind eye – is startlingly lifelike, a fact vouched for by his mistress, Emma Hamilton, who was barred from his state funeral but brought discreetly into the abbey to see the effigy.

. . Nelson sat for his portrait, made by wax artist Patience Wright, whose double life might have surprised the admiral – she was also an American spy, who enclosed secret messages in the wax busts she sent to the US.

. . The scanning forms part of extensive conservation work on the abbey’s collection, before a new museum opens in 2018 in the triforium, the attic of the church never before open to the public.

[www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/03/off-with-his-head-3d-scans-reveal-lord-horatio-nelson-william-pitt-secrets]

New tower will reveal hidden world of Westminster Abbey www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/dec/14/new-tower-will-reveal-hidden-world-westminster-abbey

[ This message was edited on Tue Jun 6 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10018-1196+5a.htm, number 127925, was posted on Tue Jun 6 at 19:56:15
in reply to 6c1413d300A-10018-1011+5a.htm

Re^2: Off with their heads: 3D scans reveal Lord Nelson's secrets

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Tue Jun 6, Don Seltzer wrote
-------------------------------
. . I am trying to imagine Admiral Nelson sitting for his portrait after his death.  And his willingness to do so for a sculptor who had died two decades earlier, in 1786.

The Abbey’s press release sets the record straight:

‘ . . The Abbey has an important collection of funeral effigies, dating from the death of King Edward III in 1377. They were originally made to lie on top of the coffin, dressed in ceremonial clothes, to represent the dead monarch lying beneath. The Abbey’s earliest wax effigy is Charles II (died 1685), whose hand has also been scanned in this collaboration. The lifelike wax head of William Pitt, was one of the last to be made by Patience Wright, the American wax sculptor who was as celebrated in her day as Madame Tussaud.

Nelson’s wax head was made during his lifetime and acquired by the Abbey as a tourist attraction after his death. His lover, Lady Emma Hamilton, thought that it was so lifelike that she apparently arranged a lock of the hair as he always wore it.  

Both effigies will form part of the display in a new museum and gallery at Westminster Abbey

www.westminster-abbey.org/press/news/2017/may/new-collaboration-to-reveal-secrets-of-nelson-and-pitt-effigies


Message 50e5a913p13-10020-203-90.htm, number 127926, was posted on Thu Jun 8 at 03:23:40
It’s Election Day here in Blighty . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . so here’s an old favourite from Hogarth:
 photo 1024px-William_Hogarth_031.jpg

Message 50e5a913p13-10020-203+5a.htm, number 127926, was edited on Thu Jun 8 at 04:38:47
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10020-203-90.htm

It’s Election Day here in Blighty . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . so here’s an old favourite from Hogarth:
 photo 1024px-William_Hogarth_031.jpg
plus Steve Bell from today’s Guardian:
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-08 at 09.33.04.png
www.theguardian.com/profile/stevebell

[ This message was edited on Thu Jun 8 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10020-399-90.htm, number 127927, was posted on Thu Jun 8 at 06:39:52
Qatar - all you need to know

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


A brief explainer for anyone who wonders why we should care about Qatar:
 photo QatarTurkeyGasLine_01.png
‘ . . As ZeroHedge pointed out yesterday it’s about energy and the money and power that comes with it. Surprise:

“The real reason behind the diplomatic fallout may be far simpler, and once again has to do with a long-running and controversial topic, namely Qatar’s regional natural gas dominance.

Recall that many have speculated (with evidence going back as far back as 2012) that one of the reasons for the long-running Syria proxy war was nothing more complex than competing gas pipelines, with Qatar eager to pass its own pipeline, connecting Europe to its vast natural gas deposits, however as that would put Gazprom’s monopoly of European LNG supply in jeopardy, Russia had been firmly, and violently, against this strategy from the beginning and explains Putin’s firm support of the Assad regime and the Kremlin’s desire to prevent the replacement of the Syrian government with a puppet regime.”

With nearly 30% of global LNG supply, Qatar has more natural gas than Michael Moore after a bowl of cauliflower. And what’s more, it has the lowest extraction rates in the world. It’s how they got to be the richest country in the world on a per capita basis.’

[capitalistexploits.at/2017/06/world-whack-qatar-gently-weeps/]


Message 50e5a913p13-10020-203+07.htm, number 127926, was edited on Thu Jun 8 at 07:23:30
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10020-203+5a.htm

It’s Election Day here in Blighty . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . so here’s an old favourite from Hogarth:
 photo 1024px-William_Hogarth_031.jpg
plus Steve Bell from today’s Guardian:
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-08 at 09.33.04.png
www.theguardian.com/profile/stevebell

Britain's Strange Election About Nothing (Bloomberg June 8)          

[ This message was edited on Thu Jun 8 by the author ]


Message 46c795dd00A-10020-1010+07.htm, number 127928, was posted on Thu Jun 8 at 16:50:03
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10020-203+07.htm

Re: It’s Election Day here in Blighty . .

Max


Subtle differences from the Trump campaign

In a packed final rally at London's Union Chapel, Jeremy Corbyn quoted Shelley as he urged young voters to "rise like lions from slumber in unvanquishable number".


Message 50e5a913p13-10020-1214+07.htm, number 127929, was posted on Thu Jun 8 at 20:14:17
in reply to 46c795dd00A-10020-1010+07.htm

Life is full of surprises!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Jun 8, Max wrote
-----------------------
>Subtle differences from the Trump campaign

>In a packed final rally at London's Union Chapel, Jeremy Corbyn quoted Shelley as he urged young voters to "rise like lions from slumber in unvanquishable number".

You can follow it at: www.bloomberg.com/news/live-blog/2017-04-25/u-k-general-election
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 00.43.56.png
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 00.52.24.png
and, finally, nephew Robert, who reports for Bloomberg from the Palace of Westminster:
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 01.04.09.png
twitter.com/RobDotHutton/with_replies


Message 32e1898300A-10021-435+06.htm, number 127930, was posted on Fri Jun 9 at 07:15:32
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10020-1214+07.htm

Re: Life is full of surprises!

Max


If we give you back New Jersey can we have Preet Gill?




n Thu Jun 8, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>On Thu Jun 8, Max wrote
>-----------------------
>>Subtle differences from the Trump campaign

>>In a packed final rally at London's Union Chapel, Jeremy Corbyn quoted Shelley as he urged young voters to "rise like lions from slumber in unvanquishable number".

>You can follow it at: www.bloomberg.com/news/live-blog/2017-04-25/u-k-general-election
> photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 00.43.56.png
> photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 00.52.24.png
>and, finally, nephew Robert, who reports for Bloomberg from the Palace of Westminster:
> photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 01.04.09.png
>twitter.com/RobDotHutton/with_replies


Message 50e5a913p13-10021-564+06.htm, number 127931, was posted on Fri Jun 9 at 09:24:30
in reply to 32e1898300A-10021-435+06.htm

Re^2: Life is full of surprises!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Jun 9, Max wrote
-----------------------
>If we give you back New Jersey can we have Preet Gill?

? I had never heard of her before now but I gather that she’s a British Sikh singer just elected to Parliament:

 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 14.11.29.png


Message 50e5a913p13-10021-577+06.htm, number 127931, was edited on Fri Jun 9 at 09:37:13
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10021-564+06.htm

Re^2: Life is full of surprises!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Jun 9, Max wrote
-----------------------
>If we give you back New Jersey can we have Preet Gill?

? I had never heard of her before now but I gather that she’s a British Sikh singer just elected to Parliament:

Would your goons let her in?
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 14.11.29.png

Good lungs, evvidently. The Tories will not easily be able to shout her down if they don’t like what she’s saying . .

[ This message was edited on Fri Jun 9 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10021-578+06.htm, number 127931, was edited on Fri Jun 9 at 09:38:32
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10021-577+06.htm

Re^2: Life is full of surprises!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Jun 9, Max wrote
-----------------------
>If we give you back New Jersey can we have Preet Gill?

? I had never heard of her before now but I gather that she’s a British Sikh singer just elected to Parliament:

Would your goons let her in?
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 14.11.29.png

Good lungs, evidently. The Tories will not easily be able to shout her down if they don’t like what she’s saying . .

[ This message was edited on Fri Jun 9 by the author ]


Message 32e1898300A-10021-609+06.htm, number 127932, was posted on Fri Jun 9 at 10:09:19
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10021-578+06.htm

Re^3: Life is full of surprises!

Max


Fagetta 'bout it. I know a guy. She's in.

So, is Boris going to be the new PM?



On Fri Jun 9, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>On Fri Jun 9, Max wrote
>-----------------------
>>If we give you back New Jersey can we have Preet Gill?

>? I had never heard of her before now but I gather that she’s a British Sikh singer just elected to Parliament:

>Would your goons let her in?
> photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 14.11.29.png
>
>Good lungs, evidently. The Tories will not easily be able to shout her down if they don’t like what she’s saying . .


Message 50e5a913p13-10021-678+06.htm, number 127933, was posted on Fri Jun 9 at 11:27:17
in reply to 32e1898300A-10021-609+06.htm

Re^4: Life is full of surprises!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Jun 9, Max wrote
-----------------------
>Fagetta 'bout it. I know a guy. She's in.

>So, is Boris going to be the new PM?

We must wait and see:
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-09 at 16.15.01.png

May Vows to Stay on for Brexit After Forging Loose Alliance:

' . . If history is any indication, the Tories will waste little time in seeking a new leader. But for now, she’s bought herself some time.'


Message 47e54d5c00A-10022-441-07.htm, number 127934, was posted on Sat Jun 10 at 07:20:45
Sloth's undebauched

Whoreson Beast


money.cnn.com/2017/03/10/luxury/sloth-portland-oregon-business-travel/index.html

Message aeda818600A-10022-520-07.htm, number 127935, was posted on Sat Jun 10 at 08:39:47
Americas' Cup NBCSportsNetwork

Whoreson Beast


How about the harmonics coming off Artemis when she's throwing a fine
foil wave.  Will we get a boat at 100% foiling around the Grand
Sound?

I'm thinking Jimmy Spithill's got his hands full defending
against the Swedes and Kiwis, with Japan lurking.

Sir Ben seems more intent on rubbing than racing.  


Message 47e54d5c00A-10022-762-07.htm, number 127936, was posted on Sat Jun 10 at 12:41:41
"The US Navy is Screwed"

Whoreson Beast


foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-u-s-navy-is-screwed-1795662679

Message 50e5a913p13-10022-889+05.htm, number 127937, was posted on Sat Jun 10 at 14:49:59
in reply to 32e1898300A-10021-609+06.htm

Re^4: Life is full of surprises!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Jun 9, Max wrote
-----------------------
>Fagetta 'bout it. I know a guy. She's in.

>So, is Boris going to be the new PM?

If the next PM is a Tory, he’s favourite:
 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-10 at 19.40.18.png
His Premiership would certainly add to the gaiety of nations far away from Blighty while it lasts, which is unlikely to be long, but it may be much less amusing for the long-suffering people of Britiain.


Message aeda812f00A-10023-606-07.htm, number 127938, was posted on Sun Jun 11 at 10:06:04
A banyan jacket. "TFSotW"

Whoreson Beast


I recall the unique garment from the film and ran across it again in the Canon....this article perhaps predates our heroes.

www.history.org/history/clothing/men/mglossary.cfm


Message 50e5a913p13-10023-810+07.htm, number 127939, was posted on Sun Jun 11 at 13:30:24
in reply to aeda812f00A-10023-606-07.htm

'His banyan, with silver clasp, wrapt round His shrinking paunch.'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Sun Jun 11, Whoreson Beast wrote
-----------------------------------
>I recall the unique garment from the film .  .

‘banian, . Portugue e Arab c Sanskrit . .
1. A Hindu trader, especially one from the province of Gujarat (‘many of which have for ages been settled in Arabian ports, and known by this name’ —Col. Yule); sometimes applied by early writers to all Hindus in Western India . .

3. A loose gown, jacket, or shirt of flannel, worn in India. (Originally attrib. from sense 1.)
1725 in Harl. Misc. VIII. 297, I have lost nothing by it but a banyan shirt, a corner of my quilt, and my bible singed.
1773 R. Graves Spiritual Quixote III. xi. iv. 198 His banyan, with silver clasp, wrapt round His shrinking paunch.
1854 J. H. Stocqueler Hand-bk. Brit. India (ed. 3) 315 Even in the low country a light flannel banian (jacket or shirt) is of service.’

(OED)


Message 6b4d6f5ewd5-10024-828-90.htm, number 127940, was posted on Mon Jun 12 at 13:48:02
The map of literature

Scourge's Housemate
perhaps200@gmail.com


I need to look at this on a proper screen not my phone

Let's hope that POB is on one of the continents

https://www.buzzfeed.com/danieldalton/map-of-literature?utm_term=.pe0688eRk#.xi0y00wNd

Tom


Message 6b4d6f5ewd5-10024-828+5a.htm, number 127940, was edited on Mon Jun 12 at 22:37:22
and replaces message 6b4d6f5ewd5-10024-828-90.htm

The map of literature-edited link-try it now!

Scourge's Housemate
perhaps200@gmail.com


I need to look at this on a proper screen not my phone

Let's hope that POB is on one of the continents

www.buzzfeed.com/danieldalton/map-of-literature?utm_term=.pe0688eRk#.xi0y00wNd

Tom

[ This message was edited on Mon Jun 12 by the author ]


Message aeda8d8000A-10026-418-07.htm, number 127941, was posted on Wed Jun 14 at 06:57:57
"Coast Guard ship found after 100 years in US Pacific coast"

Whoreson Beast


www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/us/coast-guard-ship-remains/index.html

Off Santa Barbara.


Message 50e5a913p13-10026-570-07.htm, number 127942, was posted on Wed Jun 14 at 09:29:47
test

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This has nothing to do with eating bayan fruits (= Indian figs) but derives from the veggie diet of the banyans:

‘banian . .
2. In Bengal: a native-born broker or clerk attached to a European business; (also) a person similarly employed by a private individual.m  Now usually called sircar.
1783   E. Burke Speech Fox's E. India Bill in Wks. (1842) I. 293   Mr. Hastings's bannian was, after this auction, found possessed of territories, etc. . .

. .  banian-day  n. (Naut.) one on which no meat is served out.
1748   T. Smollett Roderick Random I. xxv. 234   On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, the ship's company had no allowance of meat, and..these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘


Message 4747f48000A-10026-577+07.htm, number 127943, was posted on Wed Jun 14 at 09:37:30
in reply to aeda8d8000A-10026-418-07.htm

Re: "Coast Guard ship found after 100 years in US Pacific coast"

Grammar Nazi


For a professional writer Ms Chavez has a curiously poor grasp of the English language.  Leaving aside minor punctuation problems, the Coast-Guard cutter "battled wars" before "the shipwreck disappeared under water" and is now found "in the coast"—although that last is more probably the fault of the headline writer.

But it's only CNN; maybe the problem is institutional.

On Wed Jun 14, Whoreson Beast wrote
-----------------------------------
>www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/us/coast-guard-ship-remains/index.html

>Off Santa Barbara.


Message 50e5a913p13-10026-570+07.htm, number 127942, was edited on Wed Jun 14 at 10:17:43
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10026-570-07.htm

. . these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This has nothing to do with eating bayan fruits (= Indian figs) but derives from the veggie diet of the banyans:

‘banian . .
2. In Bengal: a native-born broker or clerk attached to a European business; (also) a person similarly employed by a private individual.m  Now usually called sircar.
1783   E. Burke Speech Fox's E. India Bill in Wks. (1842) I. 293   Mr. Hastings's bannian was, after this auction, found possessed of territories, etc. . .

. .  banian-day  n. (Naut.) one on which no meat is served out.
1748   T. Smollett Roderick Random I. xxv. 234   On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, the ship's company had no allowance of meat, and..these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘

[ This message was edited on Wed Jun 14 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10026-619+04.htm, number 127944, was posted on Wed Jun 14 at 10:18:40
in reply to aeda812f00A-10023-606-07.htm

. . these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This has nothing to do with eating bayan fruits (= Indian figs) but derives from the veggie diet of the banyans:

‘banian . .
2. In Bengal: a native-born broker or clerk attached to a European business; (also) a person similarly employed by a private individual.m  Now usually called sircar.
1783   E. Burke Speech Fox's E. India Bill in Wks. (1842) I. 293   Mr. Hastings's bannian was, after this auction, found possessed of territories, etc. . .

. .  banian-day  n. (Naut.) one on which no meat is served out.
1748   T. Smollett Roderick Random I. xxv. 234   On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, the ship's company had no allowance of meat, and..these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘

(OED)


Message 50e5a913p13-10027-804+03.htm, number 127944, was edited on Thu Jun 15 at 13:24:34
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10026-619+04.htm

. . these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This has nothing to do with eating banyan fruits (= Indian figs) but derives from the veggie diet of the banyans:

‘banian . .
2. In Bengal: a native-born broker or clerk attached to a European business; (also) a person similarly employed by a private individual.m  Now usually called sircar.
1783   E. Burke Speech Fox's E. India Bill in Wks. (1842) I. 293   Mr. Hastings's bannian was, after this auction, found possessed of territories, etc. . .

. .  banian-day  n. (Naut.) one on which no meat is served out.
1748   T. Smollett Roderick Random I. xxv. 234   On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, the ship's company had no allowance of meat, and..these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘

(OED)

[ This message was edited on Thu Jun 15 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10027-809-90.htm, number 127945, was posted on Thu Jun 15 at 13:29:29
Poseidon’s Curse: British Naval Impressment and Atlantic Origins of the American Revolution

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Poseidon’s Curse: British Naval Impressment and Atlantic Origins of the American Revolution
by Christopher Magra; Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 2016, ISBN: 9781107112148; 352pp.; Price: £39.99; Reviewer: Professor Paul Gilje, University of Oklahoma
www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/2124?utm_source=Reviews+in+H

Author’s response: www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/2124?utm_source=Reviews+in+History&utm_campaign=fad5ab3f70-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_02_23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f24f670b90-fad5ab3f70-516740337#author-response


Message 50e5a913p13-10027-809+07.htm, number 127945, was edited on Thu Jun 15 at 13:34:03
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10027-809-90.htm

Poseidon’s Curse: British Naval Impressment and Atlantic Origins of the American Revolution

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Poseidon’s Curse: British Naval Impressment and Atlantic Origins of the American Revolution
by Christopher Magra; Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 2016, ISBN: 9781107112148; 352pp.; Price: £39.99; Reviewer: Professor Paul Gilje, University of Oklahoma
www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/2124?utm_source=Reviews+in+History&utm_campa

Author’s response: www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/2124?utm_source=Revie

[ This message was edited on Thu Jun 15 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10028-324-90.htm, number 127946, was posted on Fri Jun 16 at 05:24:39
Churchill review – Brian Cox's jowl-quivering addition to the cult of Winston

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



3/5stars
   
Cox’s wartime leader is haunted by fears about the Normandy landings in Jonathan Teplitzky’s watchable biopic

‘ . . This drama cloyingly invents a doe-eyed secretary for Winston with a sweetheart among the invading forces whose first name is Arthur, Gawd help us. Well, it’s watchable. Miranda Richardson plays Churchill’s wife, Clemmie, shrewdly: imperious, exasperated, gimlet-eyed.’
[www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jun/14/churchill-film-review-brian-cox-miranda-richardson-john-slattery]

Winston Churchill’s black dog: portraying the ‘greatest Briton’ on screen - As the wartime leader returns to cinemas, the screenwriter reflects on the challenges of portraying Churchill, vulnerabilities and all
[www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jun/09/winston-churchill-black-dog-films-gary-oldman-brian-cox]

Brian Cox: ‘It horrified me when the three amigos, Clegg, Cameron and Miliband, arrived in Scotland’ - The actor explains why he left the Labour party, how putting on weight to play Churchill was more fun than taking it off again afterwards – and why he’ll never be best friends with a certain physicist …
[www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jun/15/brian-cox-it-horrified-me-when-the-three-amigos-clegg-cameron-and-miliband-arrived-in-scotland]


Message 50e5a913p13-10028-337+02.htm, number 127944, was edited on Fri Jun 16 at 05:36:56
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10027-804+03.htm

. . these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


 photo Screen Shot 2017-06-16 at 10.30.47.png
This has nothing to do with eating banyan fruits (= Indian figs) but derives from the veggie diet of the banyans:

‘banian . .
2. In Bengal: a native-born broker or clerk attached to a European business; (also) a person similarly employed by a private individual.m  Now usually called sircar.
1783   E. Burke Speech Fox's E. India Bill in Wks. (1842) I. 293   Mr. Hastings's bannian was, after this auction, found possessed of territories, etc. . .

. .  banian-day  n. (Naut.) one on which no meat is served out.
1748   T. Smollett Roderick Random I. xxv. 234   On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, the ship's company had no allowance of meat, and..these meagre days were called banyan days . . ‘

(OED)

[ This message was edited on Fri Jun 16 by the author ]


Message 465fd3f38YV-10028-730+05.htm, number 127947, was posted on Fri Jun 16 at 12:10:20
in reply to 4747f48000A-10026-577+07.htm

Re^2:Felicitations of the day!

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


A glass of wine with you and hopes for many more!

I also found 'in the coast' particularly jarring.  Perhaps its one of those 'in queue/on gueue' kind of things?


On Wed Jun 14, Grammar Nazi wrote
---------------------------------
>For a professional writer Ms Chavez has a curiously poor grasp of the English language.  Leaving aside minor punctuation problems, the Coast-Guard cutter "battled wars" before "the shipwreck disappeared under water" and is now found "in the coast"—although that last is more probably the fault of the headline writer.

>But it's only CNN; maybe the problem is institutional.

>On Wed Jun 14, Whoreson Beast wrote
>-----------------------------------
>>www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/us/coast-guard-ship-remains/index.html

>>Off Santa Barbara.


Message aeda82c000A-10028-768+5a.htm, number 127948, was posted on Fri Jun 16 at 12:47:55
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10028-324-90.htm

Albert Finney: The most Churchillian Churchill?

Whoreson Beast


en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gathering_Storm_(2002_film)

Message aeda82c000A-10028-775-07.htm, number 127949, was posted on Fri Jun 16 at 12:54:44
Was he hiding in the cable tier?

Whoreson Beast


www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/navy-sailor-missing-one-week-found-alive-onboard-his-ship-n773251

Message 50e5a913p13-10028-794+5a.htm, number 127950, was posted on Fri Jun 16 at 13:14:26
in reply to aeda82c000A-10028-768+5a.htm

Working link

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Jun 16, Whoreson Beast wrote
-----------------------------------
>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gathering_Storm_(2002_film)

Spot the difference:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gathering_Storm_(2002_film


Message 6242b08900A-10028-1256-90.htm, number 127951, was posted on Fri Jun 16 at 20:56:02
All that ocean...USS Fitzgerald collision

YA


Video:
streamable.com/fix0t
Pithy commentary from :
www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/6hpfl5/us_navy_destroyer_collides_with_merchant_ship/

Message 6c1413d300A-10029-1349+04.htm, number 127952, was posted on Sat Jun 17 at 22:29:18
in reply to 4747f48000A-10026-577+07.htm

Re^2: "Coast Guard ship found after 100 years in US Pacific coast"

Don Seltzer


The whole paragraph is bizarre,

'The long-lost US military ship battled wars and sailed across the Pacific in the late 1800s until it collided with the passenger steamship that carried more than 400 passengers, US Coast Guard and NOAA officials said.'

It conjures up an image of a Flying Dutchman, cruising the waters of the Pacific for years until released from its curse by a passenger ship.



Message 47e54d5c00A-10030-479-07.htm, number 127953, was posted on Sun Jun 18 at 07:59:18
"Hawaii deep sea canoe returns home after global voyage"

Whoreson Beast


www.cnn.com/2017/06/18/us/hawaii-deep-sea-canoe-hokulea-returns/index.html

Now the spear throwing ceremony would be "must see TV"....


Message 50e5a913p13-10030-562-07.htm, number 127954, was posted on Sun Jun 18 at 09:22:05
'What is the meaning of the phrase 'to cut the Gordian knot’?'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference.
 photo 6165571_14544488592128_rId6.jpg
Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195093544%2E013%2E0158 to find the answer . .

Message 47e54d5c00A-10030-1213-07.htm, number 127955, was posted on Sun Jun 18 at 20:12:51
"Pakistan Upsets India to Claim Its First Cricket Champions Trophy"

Willow Hurley Bat


mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/18/sports/pakistan-upsets-india-to-claim-its-first-cricket-champions-trophy.html

Message 4747f4808HW-10030-1345+03.htm, number 127956, was posted on Sun Jun 18 at 22:26:13
in reply to 465fd3f38YV-10028-730+05.htm

Re^3:Curses, my super-secret identity is blown!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


My wife (now, sadly, my ex-wife) used to say "on accident", by derivation from "on purpose".  Although idiomata are idiosyncratic—sort of a tautology—I just feel that's wrong.  I feel the same way about "in the coast":  Sure, maybe each language uses prepositions in different ways that are hard to defend rationally, but as my old Greek teacher used to say, you'll find it a lot easier to learn it than to change it.

I'm reminded of something I read in Linda Ellerbee's book:  

/* In order to write for The A-Team, you'd have to be a much better writer than most of those who write the evening news at networks and local stations — forget about shows like Hill Street Blues or The Muppet Show, where writing REALLY counts.  -Linda Ellerbee, And So It Goes */

On Fri Jun 16, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>A glass of wine with you and hopes for many more!

>I also found 'in the coast' particularly jarring.  Perhaps its one of those 'in queue/on gueue' kind of things?

>On Wed Jun 14, Grammar Nazi wrote
>---------------------------------
>>For a professional writer Ms Chavez has a curiously poor grasp of the English language.  Leaving aside minor punctuation problems, the Coast-Guard cutter "battled wars" before "the shipwreck disappeared under water" and is now found "in the coast"—although that last is more probably the fault of the headline writer.

>>But it's only CNN; maybe the problem is institutional.

>>On Wed Jun 14, Whoreson Beast wrote
>>-----------------------------------
>>>www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/us/coast-guard-ship-remains/index.html

>>>Off Santa Barbara.


Message 465fd3f38YV-10030-1363+03.htm, number 127957, was posted on Sun Jun 18 at 22:42:51
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10030-1345+03.htm

Re^4:Yes, as a secret that ranked right up there with "Who was that Masked Man?" ;-)

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


On Sun Jun 18, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>My wife (now, sadly, my ex-wife) used to say "on accident", by derivation from "on purpose".  Although idiomata are idiosyncratic—sort of a tautology—I just feel that's wrong.  I feel the same way about "in the coast":  Sure, maybe each language uses prepositions in different ways that are hard to defend rationally, but as my old Greek teacher used to say, you'll find it a lot easier to learn it than to change it.

>I'm reminded of something I read in Linda Ellerbee's book:  

>/* In order to write for The A-Team, you'd have to be a much better writer than most of those who write the evening news at networks and local stations — forget about shows like Hill Street Blues or The Muppet Show, where writing REALLY counts.  -Linda Ellerbee, And So It Goes */

>On Fri Jun 16, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>A glass of wine with you and hopes for many more!

>>I also found 'in the coast' particularly jarring.  Perhaps its one of those 'in queue/on gueue' kind of things?

>>On Wed Jun 14, Grammar Nazi wrote
>>---------------------------------
>>>For a professional writer Ms Chavez has a curiously poor grasp of the English language.  Leaving aside minor punctuation problems, the Coast-Guard cutter "battled wars" before "the shipwreck disappeared under water" and is now found "in the coast"—although that last is more probably the fault of the headline writer.

>>>But it's only CNN; maybe the problem is institutional.

>>>On Wed Jun 14, Whoreson Beast wrote
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>>www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/us/coast-guard-ship-remains/index.html

>>>>Off Santa Barbara.


Message 47e54d5c00A-10032-439-07.htm, number 127958, was posted on Tue Jun 20 at 07:18:48
Planning your budget vacation the Enchanted Isles

Whoreson Beast


www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/travel/galapagos-islands-

Looks like they're letting almost anyone in these days....


Message 50e5a913p13-10032-785+05.htm, number 127959, was posted on Tue Jun 20 at 13:05:25
in reply to 47e54d5c00A-10030-1213-07.htm

Re: "Pakistan Upsets India . . "

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


 photo 418F569900000578-4619366-image-a-27_1497905312746.jpg

Taliban suspend hostilities, tribesmen huddle round a TV… the sheer joy of seeing Pakistan rule the world at the Champions Trophy

/A>


Message 47e54d5c00A-10034-447-07.htm, number 127960, was posted on Thu Jun 22 at 07:27:27
Orca v Longliners, and the Orcas are winning.

Skirt of weed


www.adn.com/alaska-news/2017/06/18/in-a-bering-sea-battle-of-killer-whales-vs-fishermen-the-orcas-are-winning/

Message 465fd3f38YV-10035-686+06.htm, number 127961, was posted on Fri Jun 23 at 11:26:07
in reply to 47e54d5c00A-10034-447-07.htm

Re: Good on 'em. Go, Orcas!

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


On Thu Jun 22, Skirt of weed wrote
----------------------------------
>www.adn.com/alaska-news/2017/06/18/in-a-bering-sea-battle-of-killer-whales-vs-fishermen-the-orcas-are-winning/


Message 465afc8d00A-10035-924-07.htm, number 127962, was posted on Fri Jun 23 at 15:23:58
‘Why, now, a sloop, as you know, is properly a one-masted vessel, with a fore-and-aft rig. But in the Navy a sloop may be ship-rigged...."

Whoreson Beast


America's Cup Superyacht races.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=CtaUJzQnGWU&feature=youtu.be

The "super" sloops are plain enough, but one appears to be ship-rigged or perhaps Junk rigged with full width battens.  Perhaps this is the yacht built by one plutocrats of Hewlett-Packard as a square rigger but with servo motors in place of reefers?  Was she "Maltese Falcon"?


Message 47e54d5c00A-10035-1039+07.htm, number 127963, was posted on Fri Jun 23 at 17:18:54
in reply to 465afc8d00A-10035-924-07.htm

and related, Pahi racing and those annoying drones

Whoreson Beast


Perhaps Larry Ellison should have rigged "Oracle" with swivels in the tops.

www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/sports/sailing/americas-cup-new-zealand-oracl


Message 465fd3f38YV-10036-843+06.htm, number 127964, was posted on Sat Jun 24 at 14:02:54
in reply to 465afc8d00A-10035-924-07.htm

Re: Wait...whaaaat?

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


who, what, how is that thing sailing????  I couldn't find any design information on the Torpedo 7.  Articles mention 'astonishing speed' and 'crew working out in the gym for 6 months' and even a cycle contest...and 'hidden systems'...but I don't even get how its staying above the water surface.  Are the cyclists generating electricity?

Mansplain at will.



On Fri Jun 23, Whoreson Beast wrote
-----------------------------------
>America's Cup Superyacht races.

>m.youtube.com/watch?v=CtaUJzQnGWU&feature=youtu.be

>The "super" sloops are plain enough, but one appears to be ship-rigged or perhaps Junk rigged with full width battens.  Perhaps this is the yacht built by one plutocrats of Hewlett-Packard as a square rigger but with servo motors in place of reefers?  Was she "Maltese Falcon"?


Message 50e5a913p13-10036-905+06.htm, number 127965, was posted on Sat Jun 24 at 15:04:47
in reply to 465fd3f38YV-10036-843+06.htm

Emirates Team Nz Launch Their Fastest Boat Yet (from last June)

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Sat Jun 24, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>who, what, how is that thing sailing????  I couldn't find any design information on the Torpedo 7 . .

It’s being kept very hush-hush but this tells us a bit:


emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/news/182_EMIRATES-TEAM-NZ-LAUNCH-THEIR-FASTEST-BOAT-YET.html
21.06.16


Message 6242bbc900A-10036-1223+06.htm, number 127966, was posted on Sat Jun 24 at 20:24:27
in reply to 465fd3f38YV-10036-843+06.htm

Hydrofoils

YA


Not just for power craft anymore. Hobie used to have one.
Aldasplanaition at about the 2 minute mark.
youtube.com/watch?v=zXSgZCDVWOM
On Sat Jun 24, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>who, what, how is that thing sailing????  I couldn't find any design information on the Torpedo 7.  Articles mention 'astonishing speed' and 'crew working out in the gym for 6 months' and even a cycle contest...and 'hidden systems'...but I don't even get how its staying above the water surface.  Are the cyclists generating electricity?

>Mansplain at will.
>
>
>
>On Fri Jun 23, Whoreson Beast wrote
>-----------------------------------
>>America's Cup Superyacht races.

>>m.youtube.com/watch?v=CtaUJzQnGWU&feature=youtu.be

>>The "super" sloops are plain enough, but one appears to be ship-rigged or perhaps Junk rigged with full width battens.  Perhaps this is the yacht built by one plutocrats of Hewlett-Packard as a square rigger but with servo motors in place of reefers?  Was she "Maltese Falcon"?


Message 46d308a300A-10037-448+04.htm, number 127967, was posted on Sun Jun 25 at 07:28:42
in reply to 47e54d5c00A-10034-447-07.htm

Re: Orca v Longliners, and the Orcas are winning.

Max



Not always

wapo.st/2oF0iAH?tid=ss_mail-amp




n Thu Jun 22, Skirt of weed wrote
----------------------------------
>www.adn.com/alaska-news/2017/06/18/in-a-bering-sea-battle-of-killer-whales-vs-fishermen-the-orcas-are-winning/


Message 465fd3f38YV-10037-703+05.htm, number 127968, was posted on Sun Jun 25 at 11:42:40
in reply to 6242bbc900A-10036-1223+06.htm

Re: Hydrofoils

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


Thanks!  I needed to see the design with the ski in front for it to click.  

On Sat Jun 24, YA wrote
-----------------------
>Not just for power craft anymore. Hobie used to have one.
>Aldasplanaition at about the 2 minute mark.
>youtube.com/watch?v=zXSgZCDVWOM
>On Sat Jun 24, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>who, what, how is that thing sailing????  I couldn't find any design information on the Torpedo 7.  Articles mention 'astonishing speed' and 'crew working out in the gym for 6 months' and even a cycle contest...and 'hidden systems'...but I don't even get how its staying above the water surface.  Are the cyclists generating electricity?

>>Mansplain at will.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Fri Jun 23, Whoreson Beast wrote
>>-----------------------------------
>>>America's Cup Superyacht races.

>>>m.youtube.com/watch?v=CtaUJzQnGWU&feature=youtu.be

>>>The "super" sloops are plain enough, but one appears to be ship-rigged or perhaps Junk rigged with full width battens.  Perhaps this is the yacht built by one plutocrats of Hewlett-Packard as a square rigger but with servo motors in place of reefers?  Was she "Maltese Falcon"?


Message 47e54d5c00A-10037-1200-07.htm, number 127969, was posted on Sun Jun 25 at 19:59:44
"Why Do Bird Eggs Have Different Shapes? Look to the Wings". "NYT"

Whoreson Beast


www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/science/bird-eggs-shapes-flight.html?hpw&rref=science&ac

Message 56003e2600A-10038-593+50.htm, number 127970, was posted on Mon Jun 26 at 09:53:08
in reply to aeda82c000A-10028-768+5a.htm

Finney was brilliant.

The Serpents of Various Malignity


He looked far more like Churchill than John Lithgow in The Crown, or Timothy Spall at the opening of the Olympics. I'd love to see that one again.

Message 56003e2600A-10038-975-90.htm, number 127971, was posted on Mon Jun 26 at 16:15:00
Who on earth wants a blundering great first-rate, with not the slightest chance of an independent cruise?,

The Tall, Handsome Pillared Octagon


HMS Queen Elizabeth sets sail, the largest Royal Navy ship of all time, and the first aircraft carrier since Ark Royal was scrapped.

HMS Queen Elizabeth sets sail from Rosyth for sea trials


Message 50e5a913p13-10050-858-90.htm, number 127972, was posted on Sat Jul 8 at 14:17:58
An affordable present for the ‘Forumite who has everything’‘

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'Patrick O'Brian: Critical Essays and a Bibliography
FIRST EDITION 1994     · New York by O'BRIAN, PATRICK
New York: W. W. Norton, 1994.

First Edition. Fine in dark blue cloth covered boards with gilt text stamping on the spine with minor dust staining to the top edge of the text block. An octavo measuring 9" by 6" with the "erratum" slip laid-in at the front of the book. In a fine dust jacket with the price intact on the front flap. Edited by A. E. Cunningham. Numerous essays by critics, historians and admirers including Charlton Heston as well as a thorough bibliography.'

[www.abaa.org/book/992266648]


Message 50e5a913p13-10051-393-90.htm, number 127973, was posted on Sun Jul 9 at 06:33:29
Whose English is it anyway?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Note the Queen’s any more:

‘ . . But just at the point when he is in danger of conflating too many things, of appearing like an old fizzle out of step with modern times, (Martin Engels) finds a reason to be cheerful. In the autumn of 2013, the head teacher of a secondary school in Upper Norwood, insisted that her students could no longer use a list of banned words including “basically”, “bare” and “extra”. Apparently, these are all part of “multicultural London English”, or MLE*, a polyglot of black British vernacular garnished with some white working-class slang, British South Asian phrases and the occasional dash of Polish and Somali.

The head teacher was worried that, by persisting in using MLE, her students were spoiling their chances at job and college interviews. Unless they could learn to talk proper – talk in Americanised English in other words – they risked exiling themselves from the modern world. But to Engel’s jaded ears MLE is glorious evidence of a youthful resistance to imported ready-made language in favour of something authentic and home-brewed. Never has “innit” sounded quite so close to poetry.

• That’s the Way It Crumbles is published by Profile. To order a copy for £14.44 (RRP £16.99) go to bookshop.theguardian.com or call 0330 333 6846. Free UK p&p over £10, online orders only. Phone orders min p&p of £1.99.’

[www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jul/08/thats-way-it-crumbles-matthew-engel-review]

* . . a sociolect of English that emerged in the late 20th century. It is spoken authentically by working-class, mainly young, people in London . .  it can contain elements from "learners’ varieties of English, Englishes from the Indian subcontinent and Africa, Caribbean creoles and Englishes along with their indigenised London versions (Sebba 1993), local London and south-eastern vernacular varieties of English, local and international youth slang, as well as more levelled and standard-like varieties from various sources." . . ‘ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_London_English
……………
See also:

‘Today we speak of "BBC English" as a standard form of the language, but this form had to be invented by a small team in the 1920s & 30s. 1 . .  ’

twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/ - a tweetstorm!


Message 50e5a913p13-10051-723+4d.htm, number 127974, was posted on Sun Jul 9 at 12:03:08
in reply to 56003e2600A-10038-975-90.htm

'Britain’s new aircraft carrier may be a vast folly — but it still provokes awe'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



Ian Jack writes: As a little admiral growing up on the Firth of Forth, I caught the naval bug – and the awkward truth is, it’s still with me . . When HMS Queen Elizabeth left Rosyth for her sea trials on Monday, I remembered my days as a little admiral and considered how some of my enthusiasms that were formed during that short-trousered age have never completely left me.

This is an awkward residue of interest. It can lead to a protective attitude towards what the military historian Max Hastings, writing this week in the Daily Mail, described as “giant embarrassments … symbols of almost everything that is wrong with British defence policy”. He has a good case. The aircraft carrier and her yet-to-be-completed sister, HMS Prince of Wales, are the largest ships ever built for the Royal Navy, costing a total of £6.2bn. Their complicated construction – six shipyards spread throughout Britain supplied the “blocks” or modules that were welded together in Rosyth – suggest that their purpose was as much about jobs in Labour constituencies as about fulfilling a grand naval strategy . .

(The) ship runs on outdated software (Microsoft Windows XP) and will take far fewer aircraft (the Lockheed Martin F35) than originally planned. Also, big ships are vulnerable unless heavily defended. This week a spokesman for the Russian defence ministry, reacting to some boastful remark by Fallon, said that the HMS Queen Elizabeth amounted to “nothing more than a huge, easy naval target”.

It is, apart from all that, a disappointingly ugly ship. Nonetheless, Britain managed to build it. That fact alone deserves a cheer from the little admirals who still survive in so many of us

[www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/30/new-aircraft-carrier-hms-queen-elizabeth-royal-navy]


Message 6cab80b4b8G-10052-347+4c.htm, number 127975, was posted on Mon Jul 10 at 05:47:32
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10051-723+4d.htm

Re: 'Britain’s new aircraft carrier may be a vast folly — but it still provokes awe'

Victor
rms.carmania@gmail.com


Very amusing piece - but still complete shilo...

"six shipyards spread throughout Britain supplied the “blocks” or modules that were welded together in Rosyth – suggest that their purpose was as much about jobs in Labour constituencies as about fulfilling a grand naval strategy . . "

Since all shipyards in the UK are in Labour constituencies this does not explain why the carriers were ordered or built. These yards could easily have been kept busy building more Type 45s, Type 26s or Astute submarines (or some smaller flat top(s)).

"(The) ship runs on outdated software (Microsoft Windows XP)"

This is simply not true.

"and will take far fewer aircraft (the Lockheed Martin F35) than originally planned."

What does this mean? The ship can take as many aircraft as you could fit into or onto it (and continue to operate) and take to war. What he should have stated is that on routine deployments (not war situations) the ship will carry fewer F-35s than originally envisaged. The MoD has already confirmed that they intend to order all the F-35Bs originally planned - so in a war situation the carrier is capable of operating the maximum number of aircraft that space or contingency allows...

"Also, big ships are vulnerable unless heavily defended. This week a spokesman for the Russian defence ministry, reacting to some boastful remark by Fallon, said that the HMS Queen Elizabeth amounted to “nothing more than a huge, easy naval target”."

This is simply stating the bleeding obvious. The same applies to the aircraft carriers of the Russian, Chinese, Indian, French and US Navies. Aircraft Carriers will rely (mostly) on its own fighter aircraft and the medium/long-range missiles of its designated escort(s) (such as the Type 45 or 'Arleigh Burke') for air defence. The Queen Elizabeth is no-more vulnerable to the latest anti-ship weaponry than any other aircraft carrier...

"It is, apart from all that, a disappointingly ugly ship."

I have to agree with him there. However, beauty (as always) is in the eye of the beholder. Aircraft Carriers will never win prizes for aesthetics - the twin island layout is also unusual compared to the more traditional single island design that we are all used to seeing - it also has a 'hump' (the ski ramp) which is a result of choosing to operate the VSTOL version of the F-35 rather than the CATOBAR variant.


Message 6bd5c1a400A-10053-642-30.htm, number 127976, was posted on Tue Jul 11 at 10:42:07
Potential Air Crafts Collision

Lee Shore


As bad as the destroyer and cargo ship colliding was, imagine if this collision had occurred.  Hats off to a sharp San Francisco Air Traffic Controller and pilots on the taxiway for catching this in time.

www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/10/exclusive-sfo-near-miss-might-have-triggered-greatest-aviation-disaster-in-history/


Message 4086b52800A-10053-1210-07.htm, number 127977, was posted on Tue Jul 11 at 20:10:42
"Did a Huge Glowing Sea Creature Help Push the U.S. into the Vietnam War?" "The Atlantic"

Whoreson Beast


www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/07/giant-pyrosomes-vietnam-war/532893/?utm_source=nl-atlantic-daily-071117

Message 4747f4808HW-10054-533-30.htm, number 127978, was posted on Wed Jul 12 at 08:52:46
Seen on Facebook

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com



Message 419ec81e00A-10054-668+1e.htm, number 127979, was posted on Wed Jul 12 at 11:08:31
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10054-533-30.htm

Re: Seen on Facebook

Max


Two right


On Wed Jul 12, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>

Message aeda053c00A-10054-683-07.htm, number 127980, was posted on Wed Jul 12 at 11:22:49
A large ice sheet upon which one may beat off their rudder.

Whoreson Beast


www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/iceberg-about-size-delaware-breaks-antarctica-n782096

Message 43b4af28cYC-10054-724+1d.htm, number 127981, was posted on Wed Jul 12 at 12:03:41
in reply to 6bd5c1a400A-10053-642-30.htm

Re: Potential Air Crafts Collision

Windguy
klcousineau@veriozn.net


I am always amazed at the ignorance of reporters, especially when it comes to the interaction between Air Traffic Control (ATC) and Pilots. After reading the article it appears that our commercial aircraft are actually controlled and flown by people on the ground called air traffic controllers. That is simply and totally wrong. It is the pilots who both fly and control the aircraft. In this case the pilot would certainly have recognized that the "runway" (actually a taxiway) was filled with other aircraft and then realized his mistake, and taken the correct action -- called a "go around," where he simply elects to abort to landing and go around for another try.The pilot is not blind and sits in the front of the aircraft for a very good reason -- totally ignored by the reporter of this story.

Then again I guess a reporter who never flew in a cockpit with a pilot should be given some lee way -- or perhaps not since they should do their research before publishing?

Guess if there is no news we get to make up a possible story that could have happened. How about the pilot who landed on our local freeway a few miles away last week, when his engine quite right after takeoff from our local airport. ATC was little help, they don't have spare engines to through at the airplane and essentially its all of to the "pilot in command." This guy did the right thing and brought it down safely on the freeway with no injuries to anyone. That makes for a good news story -- or at least a factual one.

Wind guy  


Tue Jul 11, Lee Shore wrote
------------------------------
>As bad as the destroyer and cargo ship colliding was, imagine if this collision had occurred.  Hats off to a sharp San Francisco Air Traffic Controller and pilots on the taxiway for catching this in time.

>www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/10/exclusive-sfo-near-miss-might-have-triggered-greatest-aviation-disaster-in-history/


Message 50e5a913p13-10054-826+07.htm, number 127982, was posted on Wed Jul 12 at 13:46:31
in reply to aeda053c00A-10054-683-07.htm

'Oh what did Del-a-ware boy, what did Delaware . . ‘ ?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Non-North Amercian Forumites, like me unable to find Delalware on a map and ignorant of its evidently small size, may finnd this Brithjs account mmore helpful, particularly as it comes with a helpful video:

Iceberg twice size of Luxembourg breaks off Antarctic ice shelf - Satellite data confirms ‘calving’ of trillion-tonne, 5,800 sq km iceberg from the Larsen C ice shelf, dramatically altering the landscape
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/12/giant-antarctic-iceberg-breaks-free-of-larsen-c-ice-shelf

All I know about Delaware is that it inspired a pop song of my youth, still played occasionally today:

Oh what did Del-a-ware boy, what did Delaware
What did Del-a-ware boy, what did Delaware
She wore a brand New Jersey,
She wore a brand New Jersey,
She wore a brand New Jersey,
That's what she did wear .  .

And that someone or other crossed it on some famous occasion or other . .


Message 46d1c1da00A-10054-1203+07.htm, number 127983, was posted on Wed Jul 12 at 20:02:45
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10054-826+07.htm

Re: 'Oh what did Del-a-ware boy, what did Delaware . . ‘ ?

Mac



Q: What did Dela ware to the Iditarod?
A: I don't know but alaska.




n Wed Jul 12, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>Non-North Amercian Forumites, like me unable to find Delalware on a map and ignorant of its evidently small size, may finnd this Brithjs account mmore helpful, particularly as it comes with a helpful video:

>Iceberg twice size of Luxembourg breaks off Antarctic ice shelf - Satellite data confirms ‘calving’ of trillion-tonne, 5,800 sq km iceberg from the Larsen C ice shelf, dramatically altering the landscape
>www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/12/giant-antarctic-ice
>What did Del-a-ware boy, what did Delaware
>She wore a brand New Jersey,
>She wore a brand New Jersey,
>She wore a brand New Jersey,
>That's what she did wear .  .

>And that someone or other crossed it on some famous occasion or other . .


Message 50e5a913p13-10055-391+06.htm, number 127984, was posted on Thu Jul 13 at 06:30:49
in reply to aeda053c00A-10054-683-07.htm

A Professor of Glaciology writes . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


I’ve studied Larsen C and its giant iceberg for years – it’s not a simple story of climate change

Adrian Luckman*: One of the largest icebergs ever recorded has just broken away from the Larsen C Ice Shelf in Antarctica. Over the past few years I’ve led a team that has been studying this ice shelf and monitoring change. We spent many weeks camped on the ice investigating melt ponds and their impact – and struggling to avoid sunburn thanks to the thin ozone layer. Our main approach, however, is to use satellites to keep an eye on things.

We’ve been surprised by the level of interest in what may simply be a rare but natural occurrence. Because, despite the media and public fascination, the Larsen C rift and iceberg “calving” is not a warning of imminent sea level rise, and any link to climate change is far from straightforward. This event is, however, a spectacular episode in the recent history of Antarctica’s ice shelves, involving forces beyond the human scale, in a place where few of us have been, and one which will fundamentally change the geography of this region . .

. . This event has also been widely but over-simplistically linked to climate change. This is not surprising because notable changes in the earth’s glaciers and ice sheets are normally associated with rising environmental temperatures. The collapses of Larsen A and B have previously been linked to regional warming, and the iceberg calving will leave Larsen C at its most retreated position in records going back over a hundred years.

However, in satellite images from the 1980s, the rift was already clearly a long-established feature, and there is no direct evidence to link its recent growth to either atmospheric warming, which is not felt deep enough within the ice shelf, or ocean warming, which is an unlikely source of change given that most of Larsen C has recently been thickening. It is probably too early to blame this event directly on human-generated climate change.

* Professor of Glaciology and Remote Sensing, Swansea University, Wales, UK

reaction.life/ive-studied-larsen-c-giant-iceberg-years-not-simple-story-climate-change/


Message 4747f4808HW-10055-718+1c.htm, number 127985, was posted on Thu Jul 13 at 11:58:01
in reply to 43b4af28cYC-10054-724+1d.htm

Re^2: Potential Air Crafts Collision

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Not the Grammar Nazi speaking this time:  As I get older I notice odd mistakes in my writing.  I can't call them typos—I still make those, where my finger skips a key or hits a key next to the one I meant.  Those we understand.  But when I proofread I sometimes find that I've typed an entirely different word from the one I intended, a homophone or one that rhymes or even something more different.  I can't blame those on my fingers; they typed exactly the word my brain sent them.  So I type "now" for "not" ("I am now trying to be insulting"), "acting" for "action" (the -ing and -ion endings have become especially treacherous for me these days), sometimes even "it's" for "its", which is just plain embarrassing.

So Windguy, I'm pleased to see it's not just me.

Is it advancing age, do you think?  Have I always done it and it just took me a while to notice it?  The happiest explanation is that as my mind takes on more and more knowledge, the risk of spontaneous cross-indexing increases.

On Wed Jul 12, Windguy wrote
----------------------------
>I am always amazed at the ignorance of reporters, especially when it comes to the interaction between Air Traffic Control (ATC) and Pilots. After reading the article it appears that our commercial aircraft are actually controlled and flown by people on the ground called air traffic controllers. That is simply and totally wrong. It is the pilots who both fly and control the aircraft. In this case the pilot would certainly have recognized that the "runway" (actually a taxiway) was filled with other aircraft and then realized his mistake, and taken the correct action -- called a "go around," where he simply elects to abort to landing and go around for another try.The pilot is not blind and sits in the front of the aircraft for a very good reason -- totally ignored by the reporter of this story.

>Then again I guess a reporter who never flew in a cockpit with a pilot should be given some lee way -- or perhaps not since they should do their research before publishing?

>Guess if there is no news we get to make up a possible story that could have happened. How about the pilot who landed on our local freeway a few miles away last week, when his engine quite right after takeoff from our local airport. ATC was little help, they don't have spare engines to through at the airplane and essentially its all of to the "pilot in command." This guy did the right thing and brought it down safely on the freeway with no injuries to anyone. That makes for a good news story -- or at least a factual one.

> Tue Jul 11, Lee Shore wrote
>------------------------------
>>As bad as the destroyer and cargo ship colliding was, imagine if this collision had occurred.  Hats off to a sharp San Francisco Air Traffic Controller and pilots on the taxiway for catching this in time.

>>www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/10/exclusive-sfo-near-miss-might-have-triggered-greatest-aviation-disaster-in-history/


Message 43b4af28cYC-10055-864+1c.htm, number 127986, was posted on Thu Jul 13 at 14:29:22
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10055-718+1c.htm

Re^3: Potential Air Crafts Collision

Windguy
klcousineau@veriozn.net


Yes you have me Bob. I think it was more of trying to stay focused on what I was typing and not on the bigger picture -- editing and grammar and the like. I don't think it has anything to do with getting old -- I am better at writing now then when I was younger, but the grammar is always a problem. My wife, as a retired newspaper editor usually looks over my stuff but often I just wing it here on this site -- probably not the best idea!



On Thu Jul 13, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Not the Grammar Nazi speaking this time:  As I get older I notice odd mistakes in my writing.  I can't call them typos—I still make those, where my finger skips a key or hits a key next to the one I meant.  Those we understand.  But when I proofread I sometimes find that I've typed an entirely different word from the one I intended, a homophone or one that rhymes or even something more different.  I can't blame those on my fingers; they typed exactly the word my brain sent them.  So I type "now" for "not" ("I am now trying to be insulting"), "acting" for "action" (the -ing and -ion endings have become especially treacherous for me these days), sometimes even "it's" for "its", which is just plain embarrassing.

>So Windguy, I'm pleased to see it's not just me.

>Is it advancing age, do you think?  Have I always done it and it just took me a while to notice it?  The happiest explanation is that as my mind takes on more and more knowledge, the risk of spontaneous cross-indexing increases.

>On Wed Jul 12, Windguy wrote
>----------------------------
>>I am always amazed at the ignorance of reporters, especially when it comes to the interaction between Air Traffic Control (ATC) and Pilots. After reading the article it appears that our commercial aircraft are actually controlled and flown by people on the ground called air traffic controllers. That is simply and totally wrong. It is the pilots who both fly and control the aircraft. In this case the pilot would certainly have recognized that the "runway" (actually a taxiway) was filled with other aircraft and then realized his mistake, and taken the correct action -- called a "go around," where he simply elects to abort to landing and go around for another try.The pilot is not blind and sits in the front of the aircraft for a very good reason -- totally ignored by the reporter of this story.

>>Then again I guess a reporter who never flew in a cockpit with a pilot should be given some lee way -- or perhaps not since they should do their research before publishing?

>>Guess if there is no news we get to make up a possible story that could have happened. How about the pilot who landed on our local freeway a few miles away last week, when his engine quite right after takeoff from our local airport. ATC was little help, they don't have spare engines to through at the airplane and essentially its all of to the "pilot in command." This guy did the right thing and brought it down safely on the freeway with no injuries to anyone. That makes for a good news story -- or at least a factual one.

>> Tue Jul 11, Lee Shore wrote
>>------------------------------
>>>As bad as the destroyer and cargo ship colliding was, imagine if this collision had occurred.  Hats off to a sharp San Francisco Air Traffic Controller and pilots on the taxiway for catching this in time.

>>>www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/10/exclusive-sfo-near-miss-might-have-triggered-greatest-aviation-disaster-in-history/


Message 50e5a913p13-10056-792-07.htm, number 127987, was posted on Fri Jul 14 at 13:12:15
‘Which nineteenth-century novel opens with the words, 'Call me Ishmael'?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference - an easy one for Forumites. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199990009%2E013%2E5521 to find the answer.

Message 4747f4808HW-10056-1001-30.htm, number 127988, was posted on Fri Jul 14 at 16:42:57
Quantum entanglement: details?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I was excitedly informed at least a dozen times Wednesday-or-was-it-Tuesday? that the Chinese have successfully changed the state of an entangled photon and watched its partner (so to speak) 500 miles up change state along with it.  The word "teleportation" was used in most of those articles, which I scornfully ignore.  But in a follow-up article today I read that they tried it a million times over 32 days, and were successful 911 times.

Which tells me I have not properly understood what's going on.  What I had thought is that someone creates a pair of entangled particles, call them E and O.  The second particle is moved to the Chinese facility in orbit about 500 miles above the earth.  Someone on earth changes the state of E, and an observer notices that the state of O changes to match at the same time.

Wednesday night I met an old church friend for dinner and had a long debate over this.  At the time we were focused on simultaneity, and it was my thesis that in order to know that O's change instantly followed E's, they had to have synchronized clocks*.  We also discussed the implications for communication by ansible:  For that to work, you'd have to ship millions of entangled bits from E to O, and each bit would have to be addressable, which we're certainly not ready to do yet.

But in this case apparently they did have a million bits at each end, and they were addressable...if my picture was accurate.  So I must be wrong about their method.  Start back at the beginning:  Can anyone tell me how you a) create two entangled bits and then b) separate them by distance?  I don't have a really scientific forum to hang out at, but it's been remarked before what a broad range of knowledge we have here so maybe...?


* About synchronized clocks: Yes, I understand that relativity denies the concept of simultaneity.  I maintain the possibility of synchronicity, nevertheless, on two grounds:  1) If it's true that particles O and E changed simultaneously, that doesn't violate the speed of light because nothing has traveled from E to O.  No violation of c, therefore no violation of the ban on simultaneity.  2) If you insist on forbidding simultaneity (as my friend did) despite the fact that this case doesn't affect c, it's still alright:  We can synchronize clocks practically speaking (close enough for government work) as follows:  Calibrate clock E on earth to run accurately under 1g.  Calibrate clock O in orbit to run accurately in free fall.  Calculate td as the time it takes light to travel from E to O.  At time t, send a tick from E to O.  Set clock O to t minus td.  From then on, clocks E and O are synchronized, practically speaking.  If td is, say, 5e-2s and particle O changed its step 1e-12s after particle E, then simultaneity notwithstanding we know the effect is essentially simultaneous—at any rate it certainly exceeds c.


Message 4747f4808HW-10056-1007+1b.htm, number 127989, was posted on Fri Jul 14 at 16:47:40
in reply to 43b4af28cYC-10055-864+1c.htm

Oh, I wasn't trying to "get" you

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


As I said, I do it increasingly often.  I'm just pondering the mechanism by which it may happen.  I don't buy it as a matter of grammar; it's not grammatical mistakes I see, either below or in my writing, but word substitutions—and words that are related not by key placement, nor (usually) by meaning, but by syllable count and the first letter or three.  Something is happening in the brain, but it isn't mere faulty understanding of the language; as you say, your writing is better now that ever.

Curious, that's all; it's curious.

On Thu Jul 13, Windguy wrote
----------------------------
>Yes you have me Bob. I think it was more of trying to stay focused on what I was typing and not on the bigger picture -- editing and grammar and the like. I don't think it has anything to do with getting old -- I am better at writing now then when I was younger, but the grammar is always a problem. My wife, as a retired newspaper editor usually looks over my stuff but often I just wing it here on this site -- probably not the best idea!

>On Thu Jul 13, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>Not the Grammar Nazi speaking this time:  As I get older I notice odd mistakes in my writing.  I can't call them typos—I still make those, where my finger skips a key or hits a key next to the one I meant.  Those we understand.  But when I proofread I sometimes find that I've typed an entirely different word from the one I intended, a homophone or one that rhymes or even something more different.  I can't blame those on my fingers; they typed exactly the word my brain sent them.  So I type "now" for "not" ("I am now trying to be insulting"), "acting" for "action" (the -ing and -ion endings have become especially treacherous for me these days), sometimes even "it's" for "its", which is just plain embarrassing.

>>So Windguy, I'm pleased to see it's not just me.

>>Is it advancing age, do you think?  Have I always done it and it just took me a while to notice it?  The happiest explanation is that as my mind takes on more and more knowledge, the risk of spontaneous cross-indexing increases.

>>On Wed Jul 12, Windguy wrote
>>----------------------------
>>>I am always amazed at the ignorance of reporters, especially when it comes to the interaction between Air Traffic Control (ATC) and Pilots. After reading the article it appears that our commercial aircraft are actually controlled and flown by people on the ground called air traffic controllers. That is simply and totally wrong. It is the pilots who both fly and control the aircraft. In this case the pilot would certainly have recognized that the "runway" (actually a taxiway) was filled with other aircraft and then realized his mistake, and taken the correct action -- called a "go around," where he simply elects to abort to landing and go around for another try.The pilot is not blind and sits in the front of the aircraft for a very good reason -- totally ignored by the reporter of this story.

>>>Then again I guess a reporter who never flew in a cockpit with a pilot should be given some lee way -- or perhaps not since they should do their research before publishing?

>>>Guess if there is no news we get to make up a possible story that could have happened. How about the pilot who landed on our local freeway a few miles away last week, when his engine quite right after takeoff from our local airport. ATC was little help, they don't have spare engines to through at the airplane and essentially its all of to the "pilot in command." This guy did the right thing and brought it down safely on the freeway with no injuries to anyone. That makes for a good news story -- or at least a factual one.

>>> Tue Jul 11, Lee Shore wrote
>>>------------------------------
>>>>As bad as the destroyer and cargo ship colliding was, imagine if this collision had occurred.  Hats off to a sharp San Francisco Air Traffic Controller and pilots on the taxiway for catching this in time.

>>>>www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/10/exclusive-sfo-near-miss-might-have-triggered-greatest-aviation-disaster-in-history/


Message 4747f4808HW-10056-1001+1e.htm, number 127988, was edited on Fri Jul 14 at 21:08:02
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10056-1001-30.htm

Quantum entanglement: details? [Later: Oh, and furthermore...]

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I was excitedly informed at least a dozen times Wednesday-or-was-it-Tuesday? that the Chinese have successfully changed the state of an entangled photon and watched its partner (so to speak) 500 miles up change state along with it.  The word "teleportation" was used in most of those articles, which I scornfully ignore.  But in a follow-up article today I read that they tried it a million times over 32 days, and were successful 911 times.

Which tells me I have not properly understood what's going on.  What I had thought is that someone creates a pair of entangled particles, call them E and O.  The second particle is moved to the Chinese facility in orbit about 500 miles above the earth.  Someone on earth changes the state of E, and an observer notices that the state of O changes to match at the same time.

Wednesday night I met an old church friend for dinner and had a long debate over this.  At the time we were focused on simultaneity, and it was my thesis that in order to know that O's change instantly followed E's, they had to have synchronized clocks*.  We also discussed the implications for communication by ansible:  For that to work, you'd have to ship millions of entangled bits from E to O, and each bit would have to be addressable, which we're certainly not ready to do yet.

But in this case apparently they did have a million bits at each end, and they were addressable...if my picture was accurate.  So I must be wrong about their method.  Start back at the beginning:  Can anyone tell me how you a) create two entangled bits and then b) separate them by distance?  I don't have a really scientific forum to hang out at, but it's been remarked before what a broad range of knowledge we have here so maybe...?

[Some hours later:] I forgot to add that, depending on your answer to the above question, the next step may be to wonder why 0.1% success is considered, well, successful.  If you change the state of particle E and the state of particle O changes only every thousandth time, what are we to believe is proven?


* About synchronized clocks: Yes, I understand that relativity denies the concept of simultaneity.  I maintain the possibility of synchronicity, nevertheless, on two grounds:  1) If it's true that particles O and E changed simultaneously, that doesn't violate the speed of light because nothing has traveled from E to O.  No violation of c, therefore no violation of the ban on simultaneity.  2) If you insist on forbidding simultaneity (as my friend did) despite the fact that this case doesn't affect c, it's still alright:  We can synchronize clocks practically speaking (close enough for government work) as follows:  Calibrate clock E on earth to run accurately under 1g.  Calibrate clock O in orbit to run accurately in free fall.  Calculate td as the time it takes light to travel from E to O.  At time t, send a tick from E to O.  Set clock O to t minus td.  From then on, clocks E and O are synchronized, practically speaking.  If td is, say, 5e-2s and particle O changed its step 1e-12s after particle E, then simultaneity notwithstanding we know the effect is essentially simultaneous—at any rate it certainly exceeds c.

[ This message was edited on Fri Jul 14 by the author ]


Message 47e54d5c00A-10057-451+04.htm, number 127990, was posted on Sat Jul 15 at 07:31:27
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10055-391+06.htm

1 Gelderland = 1 Delaware = 2 Luxembourg

Whoreson Beast


qz.com/1027701/two-luxembourgs-10-madrids-one-delaware-how-a-giant-iceberg-in-antarctica-is-described-around-the-world/?mc_cid=077aedcc63&mc_eid=7bdf330d5e

Message 43b4af28cYC-10057-789+1a.htm, number 127991, was posted on Sat Jul 15 at 13:09:13
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10056-1007+1b.htm

Re: Oh, I wasn't trying to "get" you

Windguy
klcousineau@veriozn.net


It is Bob. Like the paragraph where every word is misspelled except for the first and last letter -- and it is still perfectly readable. Our brains tell us in advance what to expect and it is why we often take the meaning of a particular sentence differently than what the writer thought he was saying. I can read something I wrote over and over and always miss one or two things that my wife can find in an instant. I simply gloss over that word -- it passes through my eye, my brain and registers as correct when in fact it was not correct. Only when I leave it for 24 hours or more and then come back and read it a second time will I have any chance of finding that error. Our ability to "see" everything that is in front of us is not 100% -- we miss things because our brains seem to filter stuff out. Why some things get filtered and others do not -- well that the curious part for me.



On Fri Jul 14, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>As I said, I do it increasingly often.  I'm just pondering the mechanism by which it may happen.  I don't buy it as a matter of grammar; it's not grammatical mistakes I see, either below or in my writing, but word substitutions—and words that are related not by key placement, nor (usually) by meaning, but by syllable count and the first letter or three.  Something is happening in the brain, but it isn't mere faulty understanding of the language; as you say, your writing is better now that ever.

>Curious, that's all; it's curious.

>On Thu Jul 13, Windguy wrote
>----------------------------
>>Yes you have me Bob. I think it was more of trying to stay focused on what I was typing and not on the bigger picture -- editing and grammar and the like. I don't think it has anything to do with getting old -- I am better at writing now then when I was younger, but the grammar is always a problem. My wife, as a retired newspaper editor usually looks over my stuff but often I just wing it here on this site -- probably not the best idea!

>>On Thu Jul 13, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>Not the Grammar Nazi speaking this time:  As I get older I notice odd mistakes in my writing.  I can't call them typos—I still make those, where my finger skips a key or hits a key next to the one I meant.  Those we understand.  But when I proofread I sometimes find that I've typed an entirely different word from the one I intended, a homophone or one that rhymes or even something more different.  I can't blame those on my fingers; they typed exactly the word my brain sent them.  So I type "now" for "not" ("I am now trying to be insulting"), "acting" for "action" (the -ing and -ion endings have become especially treacherous for me these days), sometimes even "it's" for "its", which is just plain embarrassing.

>>>So Windguy, I'm pleased to see it's not just me.

>>>Is it advancing age, do you think?  Have I always done it and it just took me a while to notice it?  The happiest explanation is that as my mind takes on more and more knowledge, the risk of spontaneous cross-indexing increases.

>>>On Wed Jul 12, Windguy wrote
>>>----------------------------
>>>>I am always amazed at the ignorance of reporters, especially when it comes to the interaction between Air Traffic Control (ATC) and Pilots. After reading the article it appears that our commercial aircraft are actually controlled and flown by people on the ground called air traffic controllers. That is simply and totally wrong. It is the pilots who both fly and control the aircraft. In this case the pilot would certainly have recognized that the "runway" (actually a taxiway) was filled with other aircraft and then realized his mistake, and taken the correct action -- called a "go around," where he simply elects to abort to landing and go around for another try.The pilot is not blind and sits in the front of the aircraft for a very good reason -- totally ignored by the reporter of this story.

>>>>Then again I guess a reporter who never flew in a cockpit with a pilot should be given some lee way -- or perhaps not since they should do their research before publishing?

>>>>Guess if there is no news we get to make up a possible story that could have happened. How about the pilot who landed on our local freeway a few miles away last week, when his engine quite right after takeoff from our local airport. ATC was little help, they don't have spare engines to through at the airplane and essentially its all of to the "pilot in command." This guy did the right thing and brought it down safely on the freeway with no injuries to anyone. That makes for a good news story -- or at least a factual one.

>>>> Tue Jul 11, Lee Shore wrote
>>>>------------------------------
>>>>>As bad as the destroyer and cargo ship colliding was, imagine if this collision had occurred.  Hats off to a sharp San Francisco Air Traffic Controller and pilots on the taxiway for catching this in time.

>>>>>www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/10/exclusive-sfo-near-miss-might-have-triggered-greatest-aviation-disaster-in-history/


Message 6cadb27dgpf-10057-975+1d.htm, number 127992, was posted on Sat Jul 15 at 16:14:47
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10056-1001+1e.htm

Re: Quantum entanglement: details? [Later: Oh, and furthermore...]

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Bob, I'm afraid I can't comment usefully on this intriguing topic, not being one of your philosophical gents; however, you deserve a response, having expressed yourself so well. Thank you! I appreciate the effort it takes to engage in such inquiry and to express it here as you do.



On Fri Jul 14, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>I was excitedly informed at least a dozen times Wednesday-or-was-it-Tuesday? that the Chinese have successfully changed the state of an entangled photon and watched its partner (so to speak) 500 miles up change state along with it.  The word "teleportation" was used in most of those articles, which I scornfully ignore.  But in a follow-up article today I read that they tried it a million times over 32 days, and were successful 911 times.

>Which tells me I have not properly understood what's going on.  What I had thought is that someone creates a pair of entangled particles, call them E and O.  The second particle is moved to the Chinese facility in orbit about 500 miles above the earth.  Someone on earth changes the state of E, and an observer notices that the state of O changes to match at the same time.

>Wednesday night I met an old church friend for dinner and had a long debate over this.  At the time we were focused on simultaneity, and it was my thesis that in order to know that O's change instantly followed E's, they had to have synchronized clocks*.  We also discussed the implications for communication by ansible:  For that to work, you'd have to ship millions of entangled bits from E to O, and each bit would have to be addressable, which we're certainly not ready to do yet.

>But in this case apparently they did have a million bits at each end, and they were addressable...if my picture was accurate.  So I must be wrong about their method.  Start back at the beginning:  Can anyone tell me how you a) create two entangled bits and then b) separate them by distance?  I don't have a really scientific forum to hang out at, but it's been remarked before what a broad range of knowledge we have here so maybe...?

>[Some hours later:] I forgot to add that, depending on your answer to the above question, the next step may be to wonder why 0.1% success is considered, well, successful.  If you change the state of particle E and the state of particle O changes only every thousandth time, what are we to believe is proven?
>
>
>* About synchronized clocks: Yes, I understand that relativity denies the concept of simultaneity.  I maintain the possibility of synchronicity, nevertheless, on two grounds:  1) If it's true that particles O and E changed simultaneously, that doesn't violate the speed of light because nothing has traveled from E to O.  No violation of c, therefore no violation of the ban on simultaneity.  2) If you insist on forbidding simultaneity (as my friend did) despite the fact that this case doesn't affect c, it's still alright:  We can synchronize clocks practically speaking (close enough for government work) as follows:  Calibrate clock E on earth to run accurately under 1g.  Calibrate clock O in orbit to run accurately in free fall.  Calculate td as the time it takes light to travel from E to O.  At time t, send a tick from E to O.  Set clock O to t minus td.  From then on, clocks E and O are synchronized, practically speaking.  If td is, say, 5e-2s and particle O changed its step 1e-12s after particle E, then simultaneity notwithstanding we know the effect is essentially simultaneous—at any rate it certainly exceeds c.


Message 50e5a913p13-10058-518-07.htm, number 127993, was posted on Sun Jul 16 at 08:38:08
‘Which nineteenth-century novel opens with the words, 'Call me Ishmael'?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference - an easy one for Forumites. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199990009%2E013%2E5521 to find the answer.

Message 50e5a913p13-10058-520+1c.htm, number 127994, was posted on Sun Jul 16 at 08:40:39
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10056-1001+1e.htm

‘Spooky Action at a Distance’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is the English rendering of Einstein’s famous phrase spukhafte Fernwirkung; here’s an interesting discussion of what he mean by it and how best to translate it: ‘spooky’ or ‘ghostlly’ or ‘mystical’:

Andrew May: I don’t think I’ve ever seen a popular account of quantum entanglement that failed to mention Einstein’s “spooky action at a distance” quote. That’s not surprising, because quantum mechanics is a notoriously difficult subject to communicate to the non-specialist. It needs all the memorable sound-bites it can get... especially ones that a layperson can relate to. If you saw an experiment in which an electron in one location seemed to know what another electron somewhere else was doing, then the word “spooky” might well spring to mind . .

forteana-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/spooky-action-at-distance.html

And here’s TED cartoon:

Einstein's brilliant mistake: Entangled states - Chad Orzel


Message 6cadb27dgpf-10058-801+05.htm, number 127995, was posted on Sun Jul 16 at 13:21:08
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10056-792-07.htm

Re: ‘Which nineteenth-century novel opens with the words, 'Call me Ishmael'?’ . .

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Too easy, Christo. Ask us something tougher


On Fri Jul 14, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference - an easy one for Forumites. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199990009%2E013%2E5521 to find the answer.
>

Message 321763758YV-10058-889+1c.htm, number 127996, was posted on Sun Jul 16 at 14:49:23
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10056-1001+1e.htm

Re: Quantum entanglement: details? [Later: Oh, and furthermore...]

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


A small addition...

My understanding is that entangled protons switch to an opposite state (not matching) of the other and that there are four possible states - up down left right



On Fri Jul 14, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>I was excitedly informed at least a dozen times Wednesday-or-was-it-Tuesday? that the Chinese have successfully changed the state of an entangled photon and watched its partner (so to speak) 500 miles up change state along with it.  The word "teleportation" was used in most of those articles, which I scornfully ignore.  But in a follow-up article today I read that they tried it a million times over 32 days, and were successful 911 times.

>Which tells me I have not properly understood what's going on.  What I had thought is that someone creates a pair of entangled particles, call them E and O.  The second particle is moved to the Chinese facility in orbit about 500 miles above the earth.  Someone on earth changes the state of E, and an observer notices that the state of O changes to match at the same time.

>Wednesday night I met an old church friend for dinner and had a long debate over this.  At the time we were focused on simultaneity, and it was my thesis that in order to know that O's change instantly followed E's, they had to have synchronized clocks*.  We also discussed the implications for communication by ansible:  For that to work, you'd have to ship millions of entangled bits from E to O, and each bit would have to be addressable, which we're certainly not ready to do yet.

>But in this case apparently they did have a million bits at each end, and they were addressable...if my picture was accurate.  So I must be wrong about their method.  Start back at the beginning:  Can anyone tell me how you a) create two entangled bits and then b) separate them by distance?  I don't have a really scientific forum to hang out at, but it's been remarked before what a broad range of knowledge we have here so maybe...?

>[Some hours later:] I forgot to add that, depending on your answer to the above question, the next step may be to wonder why 0.1% success is considered, well, successful.  If you change the state of particle E and the state of particle O changes only every thousandth time, what are we to believe is proven?
>
>
>* About synchronized clocks: Yes, I understand that relativity denies the concept of simultaneity.  I maintain the possibility of synchronicity, nevertheless, on two grounds:  1) If it's true that particles O and E changed simultaneously, that doesn't violate the speed of light because nothing has traveled from E to O.  No violation of c, therefore no violation of the ban on simultaneity.  2) If you insist on forbidding simultaneity (as my friend did) despite the fact that this case doesn't affect c, it's still alright:  We can synchronize clocks practically speaking (close enough for government work) as follows:  Calibrate clock E on earth to run accurately under 1g.  Calibrate clock O in orbit to run accurately in free fall.  Calculate td as the time it takes light to travel from E to O.  At time t, send a tick from E to O.  Set clock O to t minus td.  From then on, clocks E and O are synchronized, practically speaking.  If td is, say, 5e-2s and particle O changed its step 1e-12s after particle E, then simultaneity notwithstanding we know the effect is essentially simultaneous—at any rate it certainly exceeds c.


Message 46d30af600A-10058-1014+07.htm, number 127997, was posted on Sun Jul 16 at 16:54:10
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10058-518-07.htm

Short term memory loss is a symptom of what?

Max


You already posted this on Friday.



n Sun Jul 16, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference - an easy one for Forumites. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199990009%2E013%2E5521 to find the answer.
>

Message 50e5a913p13-10059-773+04.htm, number 127998, was posted on Mon Jul 17 at 12:53:51
in reply to 6cadb27dgpf-10058-801+05.htm

I’m no quiz master

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Sun Jul 16, Joe McWilliams wrote
-----------------------------------
>Too easy, Christo. Ask us something tougher

AlasI have no book of suitable questions - indeed I have no way of judging what Forumites would find ‘hard’ but not too hard, as we are a varied bunch and I have never met any other POB fans.

The questions I post all come from Oxford Reference and anyone can sign up to receive them at www.oxfordreference.com/oso/emailsignupform?nojs=true .

I only post ones which have a connection, often tenuous,with our concerns or which amuse or intrigue me. Some of them ask about obscure people or events which to me are of no interest whatsoever.

So for ! week only I will post them all, starting with today’s:

How did Raoul Wallenberg, believed to have died on this day in 1947, save the lives of over 30,000 Jewish people?

Find the answer at: www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780191802997.001.0001/acref-9780191802997-e-2461


Message 617af4f3UWK-10059-1052+1b.htm, number 127999, was posted on Mon Jul 17 at 17:32:35
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10056-1001+1e.htm

Re: Quantum entanglement: details? [Later: Oh, and furthermore...]

Culling Simples
cullysimp@yahoo.com


Question: Can anyone tell me how you a) create two entangled bits.

Response: The "bits" in the Experiment you referenced are Photons, so the how question is answered as follows:

Shining an ultraviolet laser on a non-linear optical crystal.

physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/aug/16/china-launches-world-s-first-quantum-science-satellite.

This is referred to as the Spontaneous parametric down-conversion (SPDC)method.  There is another method of entanglement for Photons, but it requires a beam splitter which I think has to be applied locally and would not work at much distance, and there is a method to entangle electrons as well.
SPCD described here:  www.nature.com/articles/srep20906
Question: then b) separate them by distance?

Response:  Observations are made at differing points of the Vector of the Laser.  In this case the Vector is from Tibet to the Satellite and back, and the entangled photons might be viewed as "contained" in the beam.


On Fri Jul 14, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>I was excitedly informed at least a dozen times Wednesday-or-was-it-Tuesday? that the Chinese have successfully changed the state of an entangled photon and watched its partner (so to speak) 500 miles up change state along with it.  The word "teleportation" was used in most of those articles, which I scornfully ignore.  But in a follow-up article today I read that they tried it a million times over 32 days, and were successful 911 times.

>Which tells me I have not properly understood what's going on.  What I had thought is that someone creates a pair of entangled particles, call them E and O.  The second particle is moved to the Chinese facility in orbit about 500 miles above the earth.  Someone on earth changes the state of E, and an observer notices that the state of O changes to match at the same time.

>Wednesday night I met an old church friend for dinner and had a long debate over this.  At the time we were focused on simultaneity, and it was my thesis that in order to know that O's change instantly followed E's, they had to have synchronized clocks*.  We also discussed the implications for communication by ansible:  For that to work, you'd have to ship millions of entangled bits from E to O, and each bit would have to be addressable, which we're certainly not ready to do yet.

>But in this case apparently they did have a million bits at each end, and they were addressable...if my picture was accurate.  So I must be wrong about their method.  Start back at the beginning:  Can anyone tell me how you a) create two entangled bits and then b) separate them by distance?  I don't have a really scientific forum to hang out at, but it's been remarked before what a broad range of knowledge we have here so maybe...?

>[Some hours later:] I forgot to add that, depending on your answer to the above question, the next step may be to wonder why 0.1% success is considered, well, successful.  If you change the state of particle E and the state of particle O changes only every thousandth time, what are we to believe is proven?
>
>
>* About synchronized clocks: Yes, I understand that relativity denies the concept of simultaneity.  I maintain the possibility of synchronicity, nevertheless, on two grounds:  1) If it's true that particles O and E changed simultaneously, that doesn't violate the speed of light because nothing has traveled from E to O.  No violation of c, therefore no violation of the ban on simultaneity.  2) If you insist on forbidding simultaneity (as my friend did) despite the fact that this case doesn't affect c, it's still alright:  We can synchronize clocks practically speaking (close enough for government work) as follows:  Calibrate clock E on earth to run accurately under 1g.  Calibrate clock O in orbit to run accurately in free fall.  Calculate td as the time it takes light to travel from E to O.  At time t, send a tick from E to O.  Set clock O to t minus td.  From then on, clocks E and O are synchronized, practically speaking.  If td is, say, 5e-2s and particle O changed its step 1e-12s after particle E, then simultaneity notwithstanding we know the effect is essentially simultaneous—at any rate it certainly exceeds c.


Message 6cadb1dagpf-10059-1211+04.htm, number 128000, was posted on Mon Jul 17 at 20:11:10
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10059-773+04.htm

Re: I’m no quiz master

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


How did Raoul Wallenberg, believed to have died on this day in 1947, save the lives of over 30,000 Jewish people?


By granting them quick Swedish citizenship?

Message 61768a3eUWK-10060-19+05.htm, number 128001, was posted on Tue Jul 18 at 00:19:21
in reply to 46d30af600A-10058-1014+07.htm

Re: S, Bots don't get Alzeimers

Culling Simples
cullysimp@yahoo.com


So I am told.


On Sun Jul 16, Max wrote
------------------------
>You already posted this on Friday.
>
>
>
>n Sun Jul 16, Chrístõ wrote
>----------------------------
>>. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference - an easy one for Forumites. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199990009%2E013%2E5521 to find the answer.
>>

Message 4747f4808HW-10060-39-30.htm, number 128002, was posted on Tue Jul 18 at 00:39:20
Now there's an idea we've discussed before!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm pretty sure we've done or at least talked about this before, but maybe we should try collecting and posting POB-related trivia questions for fun and valuable prizes.  What "value"?  I dunno, maybe we can get Major Dave to return long enough to dedicate a poem to the lucky winner.  Or maybe just praise and adulation.  But I'm sure we'll have no trouble thinking up challenging questions.  What color shoes was Mrs Williams wearing the day she [oh, wait, no spoilers]?  Was Steven's tutor in Malay Shiite or Sunni?  What month does Dil think she was born in?  I just made those up and there are probably no answers (unless we want to award extra credit for inventive speculation), but you get the idea.

How about this:  The first to answer a challenge question correctly is "it" and gets to pose (and judge) the next one.  That ensures, you see, that at least no one has to be pestered who isn't interested enough at least to attempt it.

On Mon Jul 17, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
I’m no quiz master.  AlasI have no book of suitable questions - indeed I have no way of judging what Forumites would find ‘hard’ but not too hard, as we are a varied bunch and I have never met any other POB fans....

>On Sun Jul 16, Joe McWilliams wrote
>-----------------------------------
>>Too easy, Christo. Ask us something tougher

On Fri Jul 14, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>‘Which nineteenth-century novel opens with the words, "Call me Ishmael"?’ is today’s question from Oxford Reference - an easy one for Forumites. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199990009%2E013%2E5521 to find the answer.


Message 50e5a913p13-10060-321+03.htm, number 128003, was posted on Tue Jul 18 at 05:20:33
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10059-773+04.htm

Humbert Humbert

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Mon Jul 17, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
So for ! week only I will post them all, starting with today’s:

Tuesday: ‘In which novel does Humbert Humbert write out his life story in the psychopathic ward of a prison while awaiting trial for murder?’

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195065480%2E013%2E2846 to find the answer to today's question.


Message 90a0625e00A-10060-544+05.htm, number 128004, was posted on Tue Jul 18 at 09:03:47
in reply to 46d30af600A-10058-1014+07.htm

Re: Short term memory loss is a symptom of what?

YA


There's a glitch in the matrix.


On Sun Jul 16, Max wrote
------------------------
>You already posted this on Friday.
>
>
>
>n Sun Jul 16, Chrístõ wrote
>----------------------------
>>. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference - an easy one for Forumites. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199990009%2E013%2E5521 to find the answer.
>>

Message 50e5a913p13-10060-804+1e.htm, number 128005, was posted on Tue Jul 18 at 13:24:51
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10060-39-30.htm

Here goes: ‘Is minic Gall maith’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Tue Jul 18, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>How about this:  The first to answer a challenge question correctly is "it" and gets to pose (and judge) the next one.  That ensures, you see, that at least no one has to be pestered who isn't interested enough at least to attempt it.

As has been observed - not least by me - I am sadly decayed from when I read the Canon 40 years ago so I am ill-fitted to start this game off but my brain offered the ghost of this, which, verified against the source, I humbly lay before you:

Warm ups:

a: What does this mean?

b: Who said it?

c: Where did they say it?

Quiz:

What did the other person say in reply?


Message 50e5a913p13-10060-829-90.htm, number 128006, was posted on Tue Jul 18 at 13:49:19
‘ . . Every schoolboy knows who imprisoned Montezuma, and who strangled Atahualpa . . ’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


A General Knowledge (GK) Quiz requires a common idea of what is and isn’t GK. When I was a lad 60 years ago it was defined as ‘What Every schoolboy knows’ - a phrase popularised by Thomas Macaulay in his 1840 essay on Clive of India. ‘Schoolboy’ of course meant the select few who had attended on of Britain’‘s Public (= fee-paying) Schools or a decent free Grammar School and had therefore had, willy-nilly, a vast stock of such facts beaten into them.

OED must have received a wide range of quotes for this phrase and cites six of them:

Every schoolboy knows: used to refer to an item of factual information that is supposed to be generally known (sometimes used humorously with reference to obscure or specialized information).
. . 1795   T. Pownall Considerations Scarcity & High Prices of Bread-corn & Bread Pref. p. vi   Every school-boy knows that the nut will not shell until it is a brown-sheller.
1840   Macaulay in Edinb. Rev. Jan. 295   Every schoolboy knows who imprisoned Montezuma, and who strangled Atahualpa.
1872   Lancet 27 July 113/2   Every schoolboy knows that if he visit a nest too often, or disturb it in any way, the old birds will desert their little ones.
1900   Cornhill Mag. Sept. 382   The meal which is most characteristic of Yorkshire, as every schoolboy knows, is the high tea.
1963   New Scientist 26 Sept. 658/2   Every schoolboy knows that one sphere can be surrounded by up to twelve others of equal size, so the function g (r) rises steeply to a maximum..then oscillates a few times.
1995   J. M. Kolkey Germany on March ii. 28   As every schoolboy knows, the joint Austro-Prussian military invasion of France was halted short of Paris at a battle that became known as the Miracle of Valmy.’

Nowadays the rise of universal secondary education and college education for the majority there is no GK - just General Ignorance - GI.


Message 6cadb27dgpf-10060-978+1e.htm, number 128007, was posted on Tue Jul 18 at 16:18:09
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10060-804+1e.htm

Re: Here goes: ‘Is minic Gall maith’

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Not a clue in the world, Christo. But I would be delighted to learn that the person so addressed replied: 'Ye thrawn, ill-feckit gaberlunzie!' But that would be too much to hope for, I suppose.

On Tue Jul 18, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>On Tue Jul 18, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>How about this:  The first to answer a challenge question correctly is "it" and gets to pose (and judge) the next one.  That ensures, you see, that at least no one has to be pestered who isn't interested enough at least to attempt it.

>As has been observed - not least by me - I am sadly decayed from when I read the Canon 40 years ago so I am ill-fitted to start this game off but my brain offered the ghost of this, which, verified against the source, I humbly lay before you:
>
>Warm ups:
>

>a: What does this mean?

>b: Who said it?

>c: Where did they say it?
>
>Quiz:

>What did the other person say in reply?
>

>


Message 4747f4808HW-10060-1094+1e.htm, number 128008, was posted on Tue Jul 18 at 18:13:57
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10060-804+1e.htm

Googling doesn't count

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Hm, I find that the first thing I want is a fully indexed on-line copy of the Canon.  But that would be cheating—it would subvert the whole purpose, right?

I promptly found the answer by googling, but I don't think that should count, unless y'all want to make this an Internet Scavenger hunt...or at least not until everyone else has given up.  I'll let someone else impress us by knowing the answer through the application of an encyclopedic knowledge and memory.

On Tue Jul 18, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>As has been observed - not least by me - I am sadly decayed from when I read the Canon 40 years ago so I am ill-fitted to start this game off but my brain offered the ghost of this, which, verified against the source, I humbly lay before you:

>Warm ups:

>a: What does this mean?

>b: Who said it?

>c: Where did they say it?

>Quiz:

>What did the other person say in reply?

>On Tue Jul 18, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>How about this:  The first to answer a challenge question correctly is "it" and gets to pose (and judge) the next one.  That ensures, you see, that at least no one has to be pestered who isn't interested enough at least to attempt it.


Message 50e5a913p13-10061-797+02.htm, number 128009, was posted on Wed Jul 19 at 13:17:03
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10059-773+04.htm

White on White'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Which Russian artist produced a series of 'White on White' paintings around 1918?

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780191782763%2E013%2E1496 to find the answer to today's question.


Message aeda01ec00A-10061-968+04.htm, number 128010, was posted on Wed Jul 19 at 16:07:33
in reply to 90a0625e00A-10060-544+05.htm

Re^2: Short term memory loss is a symptom of what?

Whoreson Beast


The marthambles?

Leghorn Pox?

Carrying teratomas in your holster?

Ah, falling damps!


Message 46d1cb3b00A-10061-1171+59.htm, number 128011, was posted on Wed Jul 19 at 19:31:10
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10060-829-90.htm

Re: ‘ . . Every schoolboy knows who imprisoned Montezuma, and who strangled Atahualpa . . ’

Max


Justice Stanley Reed, speaking for the US Supreme Court in 1955 justified taking Native land thru outright theft and murder:

“Every American schoolboy knows that the savage tribes of this continent were deprived of their ancestral ranges by force and that, even when the Indians ceded millions of acres by treaty in return for blankets, food and trinkets, it was not a sale but the conqueror’s will that deprived them of their land.”


Message 50e5a913p13-10062-474+01.htm, number 128012, was posted on Thu Jul 20 at 07:54:27
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10059-773+04.htm

Anyone for thanatosis?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'In zoology what is the state of thanatosis?'

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199684274%2E013%2E8857 to find the answer to today's question


Message 50e5a913p13-10062-496-90.htm, number 128013, was posted on Thu Jul 20 at 08:15:47
Dunkirk review

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Christopher Nolan's apocalyptic war epic is his best film so far
5 / 5 stars


Nolan eschews war porn for a powerful and superbly crafted disaster movie – starring Kenneth Branagh, Tom Hardy and a decent Harry Styles – with a story to tell https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2017/jul/19/dunkirk-christopher-nolan-kubrick

Review: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jul/17/dunkirk-review-christopher-nolans-apocalyptic-war-epic-is-his-best-film-so-far


Message 50e5a913p13-10062-496+5a.htm, number 128013, was edited on Thu Jul 20 at 08:16:49
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10062-496-90.htm

Dunkirk review

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Christopher Nolan's apocalyptic war epic is his best film so far
5 / 5 stars


Nolan eschews war porn for a powerful and superbly crafted disaster movie – starring Kenneth Branagh, Tom Hardy and a decent Harry Styles – with a story to tell https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2017/jul/19/dunkirk-christopher-nolan-kubrick

Review: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jul/17/dunkirk-review-christopher-nolans-apocalyptic-war-epic-is-his-best-film-so-far

[ This message was edited on Thu Jul 20 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10062-539-90.htm, number 128014, was posted on Thu Jul 20 at 08:59:02
Another quiz: Ugh

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Who says ‘Ugh’?

To whom?

What did they mean by it?


Message 4747f4808HW-10062-624+5a.htm, number 128015, was posted on Thu Jul 20 at 10:24:03
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10062-539-90.htm

Hah! I know this one!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Stephen says it to an Indian of his acquaintance while he and Jack are being held in the USA, under the impression that it's a standard Amerindian greeting.  Eventually the Indian asks him why he says it, and then explains (not very plausibly in my opinion, but Mr O'Brian never asked my opinion) that "Ugh" was really the Indians' expression of distaste at the sight of those ugly white men.

On Thu Jul 20, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>Who says ‘Ugh’?

>To whom?

>What did they mean by it?


Message 46d1c97300A-10062-641+5a.htm, number 128016, was posted on Thu Jul 20 at 10:41:15
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10062-624+5a.htm

Mystery explained

Max


youtu.be/J8uSUcAFiXc




On Thu Jul 20, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Stephen says it to an Indian of his acquaintance while he and Jack are being held in the USA, under the impression that it's a standard Amerindian greeting.  Eventually the Indian asks him why he says it, and then explains (not very plausibly in my opinion, but Mr O'Brian never asked my opinion) that "Ugh" was really the Indians' expression of distaste at the sight of those ugly white men.

>On Thu Jul 20, Chrístõ wrote
>----------------------------
>>Who says ‘Ugh’?

>>To whom?

>>What did they mean by it?


Message 4747f4808HW-10062-664+1c.htm, number 128017, was posted on Thu Jul 20 at 11:03:58
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10060-804+1e.htm

Re: Here goes: ‘Is minic Gall maith’

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


No one has volunteered so I'll consider the time expired and give my answer:  I didn't remember this at all, but I googled it and came up first with this article in the Irish Times, which starts out
In Desolation Island, the fifth of Patrick O’Brian’s epic naval series, the ship surgeon Stephen Maturin ribs his friend, Capt Jack Aubrey, with what he claims to be an Irish proverb. “There is good to be found even in an Englishman” is how he translates the original (given as Is minic Gall maith). Then he adds drily: “It is not often used, however.”
However, Anthony Gary Brown translates it "there's usually some good in a foreigner".

On the strength of this I took out my copy of Desolation Island—my favorite of the series, I think—but didn't immediately find the place so as to fill in the rest of the answers, and really I should get to work.

On Tue Jul 18, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>As has been observed - not least by me - I am sadly decayed from when I read the Canon 40 years ago so I am ill-fitted to start this game off but my brain offered the ghost of this, which, verified against the source, I humbly lay before you:

>Warm ups:
>a: What does this mean?
>b: Who said it?
>c: Where did they say it?

>Quiz: What did the other person say in reply?

>On Tue Jul 18, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>How about this:  The first to answer a challenge question correctly is "it" and gets to pose (and judge) the next one.  That ensures, you see, that at least no one has to be pestered who isn't interested enough at least to attempt it.


Message 4747f4808HW-10062-829+58.htm, number 128018, was posted on Thu Jul 20 at 13:49:31
in reply to 46d1cb3b00A-10061-1171+59.htm

Probably a waste of time, but...

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I had to do a little research to figure out what decision you were talking about, Max.  As I suspected, though, when I got there I learned that Reed was not justifying theft and murder—just admitting it, and describing its effect on the legal relationship between the US government and the various conquered originals.

Gotta admit, though, he didn't sound all that apologetic about it either.  Nothing, for example, about "much as it pains me, the legal position is such that...".

On Wed Jul 19, Max wrote
------------------------
>Justice Stanley Reed, speaking for the US Supreme Court in 1955 justified taking Native land thru outright theft and murder:

> “Every American schoolboy knows that the savage tribes of this continent were deprived of their ancestral ranges by force and that, even when the Indians ceded millions of acres by treaty in return for blankets, food and trinkets, it was not a sale but the conqueror’s will that deprived them of their land.”


Message 50e5a913p13-10062-496+07.htm, number 128013, was edited on Fri Jul 21 at 05:56:38
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10062-496+5a.htm

Dunkirk review

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Christopher Nolan's apocalyptic war epic is his best film so far
5 / 5 stars


Nolan eschews war porn for a powerful and superbly crafted disaster movie – starring Kenneth Branagh, Tom Hardy and a decent Harry Styles – with a story to tell www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2017/jul/19/dunkirk-christopher-nolan-kubrick

Review: www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jul/17/dunkirk-review-christopher-nolans-apocalyptic-war-epic-is-his-best-film-so-far

[ This message was edited on Fri Jul 21 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10063-394-90.htm, number 128019, was posted on Fri Jul 21 at 06:33:38
JORN (Oxford quiz cont.)

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


In Australian military history what does the acronym JORN stand for?

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195517842%2E013%2E0625 to find the answer to today's question!

Tolerabley obscure to non-Ozzies.


Message 50e5a913p13-10063-407+06.htm, number 128020, was posted on Fri Jul 21 at 06:46:43
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10062-496+07.htm

The Dunkirk spirit: how cinema is shaping Britain’s identity in the Brexit era

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'Where some see disaster, others see victory … No, not the fraught events of 1940 as depicted in Christopher Nolan’s war epic, but the right’s battle against Europe. Has cinema become a willing ally?'

' . . To its credit, Nolan’s Dunkirk avoids flag-waving jingoism in favour of a more complex account of events. The heroism and courage and sacrifice is duly celebrated, but the movie acknowledges there was also panic, chaos, fear and cowardice. There was xenophobia – “English only!” shouts the naval officer, turning French soldiers away from the rescue ships – but there was also solidarity: “I’m staying … for the French,” says Kenneth Branagh’s naval commander, as he watches the last British troops sail home. Nolan has said he approached the film “from the point of view of the pure mechanics of survival rather than from the politics of the event”.

It is a theme that resonates beyond Dunkirk itself, and far beyond the Brexit interpretation of it. As we watch hundreds of thousands of unfortunate people huddled on the beaches, hoping for deliverance, the similarity between our boys trying to get home and present-day migrants striving desperately to reach Europe is impossible to ignore. Our identity myths should surely be able to accommodate both.'

Steven Rose
www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jul/20/dunkirk-spirit-british-film-brexit-national-identity-christopher-nolan

Dunkirk is released today.


Message 31bb94e900A-10063-506+5a.htm, number 128021, was posted on Fri Jul 21 at 08:25:45
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10063-394-90.htm

Re: JORN (Oxford quiz cont.)

wombat


On Fri Jul 21, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>In Australian military history what does the acronym JORN stand for?

>Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195517842%2E013%2E0625 to find the answer to today's question!

>Tolerabley obscure to non-Ozzies.

And not dazzlingly clear to marsupials either.


Message 47e54da900A-10063-1326+06.htm, number 128022, was posted on Fri Jul 21 at 22:06:17
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10063-407+06.htm

At least we know what happens to Captain Tom Pullings

Whoreson Beast


He went on to become a Colonel in the British Army (James D'Arcy).

BTW, with the Royal Marines, RAF, and RN, why isn't it the Royal Army?

/Colonists wish to know


Message adb7f4aagpf-10063-1354+5a.htm, number 128023, was posted on Fri Jul 21 at 22:34:28
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10063-394-90.htm

Re: JORN (Oxford quiz cont.)

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Does the RN stand for 'Royal Navy?'

Probably not

On Fri Jul 21, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>In Australian military history what does the acronym JORN stand for?

>Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195517842%2E013%2E0625 to find the answer to today's question!

>Tolerabley obscure to non-Ozzies.


Message 50e5a913p13-10064-567+59.htm, number 128024, was posted on Sat Jul 22 at 09:27:29
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10063-394-90.htm

Votes for British Women

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘In which year were women granted the same voting rights as men in the UK?’

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780192800916%2E013%2E0562 to find the answer to today's question.

Message 50e5a913p13-10064-569+59.htm, number 128025, was posted on Sat Jul 22 at 09:28:35
in reply to adb7f4aagpf-10063-1354+5a.htm

Re^2: JORN (Oxford quiz cont.)

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Jul 21, Joe McWilliams wrote
-----------------------------------
>Does the RN stand for 'Royal Navy?'

Double NO.


Message 50e5a913p13-10065-416+58.htm, number 128026, was posted on Sun Jul 23 at 06:55:34
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10063-394-90.htm

The world's longest literary work?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Which great epic of India is thought to be the world's longest literary work?

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195102758%2E013%2E0174 to find the answer to today's question.


Message 6bd5c1a400A-10065-1262-07.htm, number 128027, was posted on Sun Jul 23 at 21:02:19
Strange Story Of The SS Warimoo

Lee Shore


I don't recall if anyone has posted this. Interesting.

www.mastermariners.org.au/stories-from-the-past/2304-strange-story-of-the-ss-warimoo


Message 0ce2b8b200A-10065-1298+07.htm, number 128028, was posted on Sun Jul 23 at 21:38:11
in reply to 6bd5c1a400A-10065-1262-07.htm

Does not a new century begin

Hoyden


01/01/XX01, not XX00?

Message 50e5a913p13-10066-439+57.htm, number 128029, was posted on Mon Jul 24 at 07:18:55
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10063-394-90.htm

, ‘In Mesoamerican mythology . . ’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘ . . which deity descended to the underworld to obtain the bones with which to create the human race?

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195156690%2E013%2E1326 to find the answer.


Message 50e5a913p13-10066-440+57.htm, number 128029, was edited on Mon Jul 24 at 07:19:45
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10066-439+57.htm

‘In Mesoamerican mythology . . ’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . which deity descended to the underworld to obtain the bones with which to create the human race?

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195156690%2E013%2E1326 to find the answer.

[ This message was edited on Mon Jul 24 by the author ]


Message 4086b48c00A-10066-680-90.htm, number 128030, was posted on Mon Jul 24 at 11:20:16
"Jack, if you would just wait until we get to my estate, there is plenty of food"

YA


www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/bear-cliff-edge-200-sheep-france-spain-a7856001.html

Message 4747f4808HW-10066-707+18.htm, number 128031, was posted on Mon Jul 24 at 11:47:11
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10062-664+1c.htm

Re^2: Here goes: ‘Is minic Gall maith’

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Once having picked up Desolation Island I found myself reading it again, so I now have the last answer:  Stephen said it to Jack during a morning conversation after the British whaler had given him the loan of their forge:
He had rarely seen Jack happier than he was at breakfast, sitting there in the great cabin drinking coffee, with a spy-glass at hand so that he could watch the beautiful smithy between cups.  "There is good even in an American", he said.  "And when I think of that poor skipper with his face-ache, drinking small-beer for his morning draught, I have a mind to send him a sack of coffee-beans."

"There is a proverb in Ireland", said Stephen, "to the effect that there is good to be found even in an Englishman—is minic Gall maith.  It is not often used, however."

"Of course there is good in an American", said Jack.  "Look at young Herapath yesterday...."

They were sitting in the horrible old Leopard, anchored at Desolation Island after a harrowing journey far south of their originally intended port of call.

On Thu Jul 20, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>No one has volunteered so I'll consider the time expired and give my answer:  I didn't remember this at all, but I googled it and came up first with this article in the Irish Times, which starts out

In Desolation Island, the fifth of Patrick O’Brian’s epic naval series, the ship surgeon Stephen Maturin ribs his friend, Capt Jack Aubrey, with what he claims to be an Irish proverb. “There is good to be found even in an Englishman” is how he translates the original (given as Is minic Gall maith). Then he adds drily: “It is not often used, however.”
However, Anthony Gary Brown translates it "there's usually some good in a foreigner".

>On the strength of this I took out my copy of Desolation Island—my favorite of the series, I think—but didn't immediately find the place so as to fill in the rest of the answers, and really I should get to work.

>On Tue Jul 18, Chrístõ wrote
>----------------------------
>>As has been observed - not least by me - I am sadly decayed from when I read the Canon 40 years ago so I am ill-fitted to start this game off but my brain offered the ghost of this, which, verified against the source, I humbly lay before you:

>>Warm ups:
>>a: What does this mean?
>>b: Who said it?
>>c: Where did they say it?

>>Quiz: What did the other person say in reply?

>>On Tue Jul 18, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>How about this:  The first to answer a challenge question correctly is "it" and gets to pose (and judge) the next one.  That ensures, you see, that at least no one has to be pestered who isn't interested enough at least to attempt it.


Message 6c1413d300A-10066-1257+06.htm, number 128032, was posted on Mon Jul 24 at 20:57:03
in reply to 6bd5c1a400A-10065-1262-07.htm

Re: Strange Story Of The SS Warimoo

Don Seltzer


The story originated with Mark Twain's 1895 crossing of the IDL aboard the Warrimoo.  He wrote an account of the oddity of the bow and stern being in two different days.  He got it a bit wrong, however, in claiming that they were two days apart.

The current version of the story adds in the equator and the turn of the century New Year's Eve to embellish the paradox.  While certainly possible, it is more likely that this version of the story was an exaggeration of Twain's original.


Message 68cdae10gpf-10066-1337-07.htm, number 128033, was posted on Mon Jul 24 at 22:17:05
The Boys in the Boat

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


What a great story. Either that or I'm just a sucker for this sort of 'overcoming great odds to achieve sporting glory' type of thing. Maybe both.

In any case, I highly recommend 'The Boys in the Boat,' by Daniel James Brown. He digs deeply into it and turns up gold - well before the literal gold medal at the 1936 Olympics. That was merely the icing on the cake.


Message aeda007f00A-10067-656-07.htm, number 128034, was posted on Tue Jul 25 at 10:55:53
" Stretch out (today) for Doggetts Coat and Badge"

Hoyden


www.doggettsrace.org.uk

7/25/17
11:30 am


Message 6c1413d300A-10067-1231+05.htm, number 128035, was posted on Tue Jul 25 at 20:31:31
in reply to 6c1413d300A-10066-1257+06.htm

Urban Legend or Not?

Don Seltzer


On Mon Jul 24, I wrote

>The current version of the story adds in the equator and the turn of the century New Year's Eve to embellish the paradox.  While certainly possible, it is more likely that this version of the story was an exaggeration of Twain's original.

I see this story pop up every now and then and thought it was time to firmly debunk it by researching shipping records.  To my surprise it appears to be very plausible.

The Warrimoo, commanded by Capt Phillips, left Vancouver on Dec 15, 1899.  It touched briefly at Honolulu on Dec 24 and arrived in Sydney on Jan 9, 1900.  Its course would have taken it very near 0° lat, 180° long within a day or two of Dec 31.  

It is odd that there does not seem to be any references to this story before the mid-20th century.


Message 50e5a913p13-10069-799-90.htm, number 128036, was posted on Thu Jul 27 at 13:18:48
The Hijacking of the Brillante Virtuoso: A Mysterious Assault, . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . An Unsolved Murder And A Ship That Hasn’t Given Up All Its Secrets by Kit Chellel And Matthew Campbell
July 27, 2017
‘1: Nestor Tabares must have known the hijackers were out there, waiting. It was his 13th day at sea aboard the oil tanker Brillante Virtuoso, and as the ship turned east, into the pirate-strewn waters off Somalia, the 54-year-old chief engineer would have understood that it made for an obvious target. With a top speed of less than 13 knots and stretching 300 yards from bow to rusting stern, the black-hulled Brillante was plodding into the world’s most dangerous shipping lane with a cargo worth $100 million.

It was July 2011, and the threat of Somali piracy in the Gulf of Aden had never been more severe . . ‘

Be warned that this is long - 6400 words.

www.bloomberg.com/features/2017-hijacking-of-brillante-virtuoso/


Message 90a0626000A-10073-675-90.htm, number 128037, was posted on Mon Jul 31 at 11:16:00
antibiotics update

YA


I don't know what to say, I just found this interesting:

Message 50e5a913p13-10076-592+4d.htm, number 128038, was posted on Thu Aug 3 at 09:51:32
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10063-394-90.htm

A final selection of recent questions:

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


How does grapefruit affect the metabolism of many drugs?

Find the answer at: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780191752391%2E013%2E2492
……..
In the novel 'Oliver Twist' by Charles Dickens, who adopts Oliver?

Find the answer at:  www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199608218%2E013%2E5580*
…….
In the novel 'Oliver Twist' by Charles Dickens, who adopts Oliver?

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199608218%2E013%2E5580

………………..
You can sign up to receive a daily question at: www.oxfordreference.com/oso/emailsignupform?nojs=true


Message 4747f4808HW-10076-602+57.htm, number 128039, was posted on Thu Aug 3 at 10:02:13
in reply to 90a0626000A-10073-675-90.htm

Re: antibiotics update

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I was going to ask where you found it—could it really have been on Amazon?—but I see the URL, https://i.redd.it/nr1rb5gndwcz.jpg.

On Mon Jul 31, YA wrote
-----------------------
>I don't know what to say, I just found this interesting:
>


Message 50e5a913p13-10076-598+4d.htm, number 128038, was edited on Thu Aug 3 at 10:09:31
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10076-592+4d.htm

A final selection of recent questions:

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


How does grapefruit affect the metabolism of many drugs?

Find the answer at: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780191752391%2E013%2E2492
……..
In the novel 'Oliver Twist' by Charles Dickens, who adopts Oliver?

Find the answer at:  www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199608218%2E013%2E5580*
…….
In the Netherlands what is sold at the Alkmaar auction?

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199330881%2E013%2E0018
………………..
You can sign up to receive a daily question at: www.oxfordreference.com/oso/emailsignupform?nojs=true

[ This message was edited on Thu Aug 3 by the author ]


Message 4abe5c7200A-10076-669+57.htm, number 128040, was posted on Thu Aug 3 at 11:08:38
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10076-602+57.htm

Re^2: antibiotics update

YA


I was wondering what you were on about, then I checked amazon-not there, taken down.
But it was, I swears-

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yQ1ETl7m9MUJ:https://www.a

Which it might well not have been, and been complete BS; instead of only partial BS. Word to the wise, check your sources.

On Thu Aug 3, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>I was going to ask where you found it—could it really have been on Amazon?—but I see the URL, https://i.redd.it/nr1rb5gndwcz.jpg.


Message c61740a88YV-10076-1228+57.htm, number 128041, was posted on Thu Aug 3 at 20:27:53
in reply to 4abe5c7200A-10076-669+57.htm

Re^3: no, it was there

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


Amazon took it down, perhaps because the reviewers were being a little too open about who they were buying it for.  And it does appear to be a 'thing' - survivalists stocking up on 'antibiotics' before the coming apocalypse.

Personally, anyone stupid enough to buy antibiotics described as being for fish, which means they're aren't approved by the FDA or any other agency and could literally have anything in the pill bottles (who would you complain to?) deserves whatever happens to them.

AOn Thu Aug 3, YA wrote
----------------------
>I was wondering what you were on about, then I checked amazon-not there, taken down.
>But it was, I swears-

>webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yQ1ETl7m9MUJ:https://www.a

>Which it might well not have been, and been complete BS; instead of only partial BS. Word to the wise, check your sources.

>On Thu Aug 3, Bob Bridges wrote
>-------------------------------
>>I was going to ask where you found it—could it really have been on Amazon?—but I see the URL, https://i.redd.it/nr1rb5gndwcz.jpg.

>


Message 50e5a913p13-10082-477-90.htm, number 128042, was posted on Wed Aug 9 at 07:57:12
'What is the name of the schooner taken in 1910 by Roald Amundsen to the Antarctic, successfully reaching the South Pole?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . today’s queston.

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1036 to find the answer.


Message 32e1898200A-10083-383-30.htm, number 128043, was posted on Thu Aug 10 at 06:22:33
Gentleman in Moscow

Max


Well, this was depressing. I went to a dinner party of seemingly bright, educated people. Not young.
They were reading A Gentleman in Moscow with great enjoyment.
So far, so good.
While discussing the book however it became apparent that they thought it took place during, or right after, the Napoleonic era.

I didn't know where to start.


Message 50e5a913p13-10082-477+5a.htm, number 128042, was edited on Thu Aug 10 at 13:13:29
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10082-477-90.htm

'What is the name of the schooner taken by Roald Amundsen to the Antarctic ? . . '

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . today’s queston.

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1036 to find the answer.

[ This message was edited on Thu Aug 10 by the author ]


Message 56003e26cb5-10083-1053+59.htm, number 128044, was posted on Thu Aug 10 at 17:32:51
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10082-477+5a.htm

Fram, of course!

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



It means "forward" in Norwegian. She originally belonged to Nansen. A brilliantly-designed ship for Arctic exploration, she can't be crushed by the ice because her bottom is rounded so the ice will simply push her up. You can take a tour in Oslo.

Message 56003e26cb5-10083-1056-30.htm, number 128045, was posted on Thu Aug 10 at 17:36:07
What do we think of that fellow... (on-topic)

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



... who said, "I never drink a glass of wine with any man"? I believe he said this to Clonfert in The Mauritius Command. This seems deliberately offensive, and I can't imagine the justification for it. If you drink wine, why should you not drink a glass in friendship with another, as custom doth dictate? Is there some obligation imposed thereby, that he wished to avoid?

Message 46d310ab00A-10084-522+1d.htm, number 128046, was posted on Fri Aug 11 at 08:42:30
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10083-1056-30.htm

I say he has a demon

Max


In Luke 7:33–44, Jesus said, “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’”


Message 6242bb3b00A-10084-612+1d.htm, number 128047, was posted on Fri Aug 11 at 10:11:52
in reply to 32e1898200A-10083-383-30.htm

Re: Gentleman in Moscow

YA


Dinner with Max. You gotta be on your game:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeDjaQNiTog

Originally looked for a Letterkenny 'to be fair' clip, no can find.
Figure it oot.

On Thu Aug 10, Max wrote
------------------------
>Well, this was depressing. I went to a dinner party of seemingly bright, educated people. Not young.
>They were reading A Gentleman in Moscow with great enjoyment.
>So far, so good.
>While discussing the book however it became apparent that they thought it took place during, or right after, the Napoleonic era.

>I didn't know where to start.


Message 68cdafb5gpf-10084-1045+1d.htm, number 128048, was posted on Fri Aug 11 at 17:24:33
in reply to 32e1898200A-10083-383-30.htm

Re: Gentleman in Moscow

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Thanks for the heads-up, Max. I will be sure now not to make that mistake if I ever get my hands on A Gentleman in Moscow, which - due to my reliance on regional library system inventory - may not be for a long time. I checked last night and found every copy of Towle in the system is out and with a waiting list. I had no idea. Same for George Saunders, I notice. Has anyone here read 'Lincoln in the Bardo?'

On Thu Aug 10, Max wrote
------------------------
>Well, this was depressing. I went to a dinner party of seemingly bright, educated people. Not young.
>They were reading A Gentleman in Moscow with great enjoyment.
>So far, so good.
>While discussing the book however it became apparent that they thought it took place during, or right after, the Napoleonic era.

>I didn't know where to start.


Message 68cdafb5gpf-10084-1047+58.htm, number 128049, was posted on Fri Aug 11 at 17:26:45
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10082-477+5a.htm

Re: 'What is the name of the schooner taken by Roald Amundsen to the Antarctic ? . . '

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


I was all set to guess 'Gjoa', but that was on an Arctic voyage. I once met a fellow from Gjoa Haven who told me about Amundsen spending a couple of winters there. He figured he had some of old Roald's blood in him, as well.
On Thu Aug 10, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . today’s queston.

>Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1036 to find the answer.


Message 46d30bbe00A-10085-42+1c.htm, number 128050, was posted on Sat Aug 12 at 00:42:21
in reply to 68cdafb5gpf-10084-1045+1d.htm

Re^2: Gentleman in Moscow

Max


I haven't read  'Lincoln in the Bardo'. No plan not to. Just too much going on to read as much as I like.
My astonishment at the dinner party is that GIM as about nothing if it isn't about the decade after decade changes in society post 1922. Words like "Bolsheviks" are on every page. There are cars and radios.
I'm just astonished that educated people can miss by a full century.




n Fri Aug 11, Joe McWilliams wrote
-----------------------------------
>Thanks for the heads-up, Max. I will be sure now not to make that mistake if I ever get my hands on A Gentleman in Moscow, which - due to my reliance on regional library system inventory - may not be for a long time. I checked last night and found every copy of Towle in the system is out and with a waiting list. I had no idea. Same for George Saunders, I notice. Has anyone here read 'Lincoln in the Bardo?'

>On Thu Aug 10, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>Well, this was depressing. I went to a dinner party of seemingly bright, educated people. Not young.
>>They were reading A Gentleman in Moscow with great enjoyment.
>>So far, so good.
>>While discussing the book however it became apparent that they thought it took place during, or right after, the Napoleonic era.

>>I didn't know where to start.


Message 31bb0f9f00A-10085-236+1c.htm, number 128051, was posted on Sat Aug 12 at 03:56:23
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10083-1056-30.htm

Re: What do we think of that fellow... (on-topic)

wombat


On Thu Aug 10, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>... who said, "I never drink a glass of wine with any man"? I believe he said this to Clonfert in The Mauritius Command. This seems deliberately offensive, and I can't imagine the justification for it. If you drink wine, why should you not drink a glass in friendship with another, as custom doth dictate? Is there some obligation imposed thereby, that he wished to avoid?

Maybe PO'B meant to hint at the flaws in the personalities of both Clonfert and Corbett? A hint of further clashes? (I'm not sure as
I haven't re-read TMC in years).

I googled because googling is what I *do*. PO'B lifted the episode straight from "Life of a Seaman". Cochrane was being pleasant to his new admiral, Vandeput, a man who could be intimidating on first aquaintance.:


"On joining this ship a few days afterwards my reception was anything but encouraging.

Being seated near the admiral at dinner, he inquired what dish was before me. Mentioning its nature, I asked if he would permit me to help him. The uncourteous reply was — that whenever he wished for anything he was in the habit of asking for it. Not knowing what to make of a rebuff of this nature, it was  met by an inquiry if he would allow me the honour  of taking wine with him. "I never take wine with  any man, my lord," was the unexpected reply, from  which it struck me that my lot was cast among Goths, if no worse".

On further acquaintance the admiral proved to be one of the kindest of commanders. "There was not a happier ship afloat, nor one in which the officers lived in more perfect harmony".


Message 46d3102500A-10085-1253+57.htm, number 128052, was posted on Sat Aug 12 at 20:52:38
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10083-1053+59.htm

Re: Fram, of course!

Max


By odd coincidence I am reading The Mission Song and Fram just came up appropo of nothing.
What are the odds?



n Thu Aug 10, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>It means "forward" in Norwegian. She originally belonged to Nansen. A brilliantly-designed ship for Arctic exploration, she can't be crushed by the ice because her bottom is rounded so the ice will simply push her up. You can take a tour in Oslo.

Message 56003e26cb5-10087-709+1a.htm, number 128053, was posted on Mon Aug 14 at 11:48:55
in reply to 31bb0f9f00A-10085-236+1c.htm

Great research! Thanks! (NT)

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com


.

Message ad2078cfhi9-10087-906-07.htm, number 128054, was posted on Mon Aug 14 at 15:06:26
Master & Commander Weekend in Toronto 2017

Adam Quinan
hms.bee@gmail.com


MASTER AND COMMANDER

A Weekend in Nelson's Navy

at Historic Montgomery's Inn
(4709 Dundas West at Islington), Fort York, Campbell House Museum, and aboard tall ship Playfair.

September 22-24, 2017

The year is 1800. Standing on the deck of a British warship, you hear the wind snapping her sails and the creak of her wooden hull. Then -- a strange ship is sighted on the horizon, and you're off in hot pursuit!

This event offers a unique immersive experience: you will spend the weekend in the world of the Royal Navy of 200 years ago.

The three-day weekend includes:

--Crewing (or just relaxing) aboard a tall ship out on Lake Ontario
-- historical music and dance
--five historical meals by firelight, including toasted cheese, sea
pie and spotted dog
--speakers on Jack's ships real and fictional, a newly discovered MS
of music used by naval and military bands, and Jane Austen's naval
brothers
--a display and talk on antique navigational instruments
--lessons in letter-writing with quill pens and sealing wax, using the
bosun's pipes, and cutlass
--demonstrations in cutlass, pike and musket drill
--a lieutenants' examination board (in full dress uniform)
--reading the Articles of War e& divisions on Sunday
--a book table by the fabulous Nautical Mind bookshop, merchants
(Joseph the Chandler and Linda's Early Fashions)
--tours of 1812-era Fort York and late-Georgian Campbell House museum
--historical games and newspapers, and -- wait for it -- a bad naval
poetry contest!

Full details are up on the Master and Commander page of my website, www.JaneAustenDancing.ca and I'm creating a photo gallery from last year's event as well.
Enquiries are coming in from both Canadians and Americans.


Message 46d1cb1200A-10087-1370+07.htm, number 128055, was posted on Mon Aug 14 at 22:49:53
in reply to ad2078cfhi9-10087-906-07.htm

The address, "Dundas West" is certainly promising

Max


On Mon Aug 14, Adam Quinan wrote
--------------------------------
>MASTER AND COMMANDER

>A Weekend in Nelson's Navy

>at Historic Montgomery's Inn
>(4709 Dundas West at Islington), Fort York, Campbell House Museum, and aboard tall ship Playfair.

>September 22-24, 2017

>The year is 1800. Standing on the deck of a British warship, you hear the wind snapping her sails and the creak of her wooden hull. Then -- a strange ship is sighted on the horizon, and you're off in hot pursuit!

>This event offers a unique immersive experience: you will spend the weekend in the world of the Royal Navy of 200 years ago.

>The three-day weekend includes:

>--Crewing (or just relaxing) aboard a tall ship out on Lake Ontario
>-- historical music and dance
>--five historical meals by firelight, including toasted cheese, sea
>pie and spotted dog
>--speakers on Jack's ships real and fictional, a newly discovered MS
>of music used by naval and military bands, and Jane Austen's naval
>brothers
>--a display and talk on antique navigational instruments
>--lessons in letter-writing with quill pens and sealing wax, using the
>bosun's pipes, and cutlass
>--demonstrations in cutlass, pike and musket drill
>--a lieutenants' examination board (in full dress uniform)
>--reading the Articles of War e& divisions on Sunday
>--a book table by the fabulous Nautical Mind bookshop, merchants
>(Joseph the Chandler and Linda's Early Fashions)
>--tours of 1812-era Fort York and late-Georgian Campbell House museum
>--historical games and newspapers, and -- wait for it -- a bad naval
>poetry contest!

>Full details are up on the Master and Commander page of my website, www.JaneAustenDancing.ca and I'm creating a photo gallery from last year's event as well.
>Enquiries are coming in from both Canadians and Americans.


Message 68cdafb5gpf-10088-816+06.htm, number 128056, was posted on Tue Aug 15 at 13:35:38
in reply to ad2078cfhi9-10087-906-07.htm

Re: Master & Commander Weekend in Toronto 2017

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


It sounds like great fun, Mr. Quinan. Thanks for letting us know about it.
Once upon a time I lived near there, but alas, am too far away now to consider attending. Too bad, because I am up for any amount of bad naval poetry.


On Mon Aug 14, Adam Quinan wrote
--------------------------------
>MASTER AND COMMANDER

>A Weekend in Nelson's Navy

>at Historic Montgomery's Inn
>(4709 Dundas West at Islington), Fort York, Campbell House Museum, and aboard tall ship Playfair.

>September 22-24, 2017

>The year is 1800. Standing on the deck of a British warship, you hear the wind snapping her sails and the creak of her wooden hull. Then -- a strange ship is sighted on the horizon, and you're off in hot pursuit!

>This event offers a unique immersive experience: you will spend the weekend in the world of the Royal Navy of 200 years ago.

>The three-day weekend includes:

>--Crewing (or just relaxing) aboard a tall ship out on Lake Ontario
>-- historical music and dance
>--five historical meals by firelight, including toasted cheese, sea
>pie and spotted dog
>--speakers on Jack's ships real and fictional, a newly discovered MS
>of music used by naval and military bands, and Jane Austen's naval
>brothers
>--a display and talk on antique navigational instruments
>--lessons in letter-writing with quill pens and sealing wax, using the
>bosun's pipes, and cutlass
>--demonstrations in cutlass, pike and musket drill
>--a lieutenants' examination board (in full dress uniform)
>--reading the Articles of War e& divisions on Sunday
>--a book table by the fabulous Nautical Mind bookshop, merchants
>(Joseph the Chandler and Linda's Early Fashions)
>--tours of 1812-era Fort York and late-Georgian Campbell House museum
>--historical games and newspapers, and -- wait for it -- a bad naval
>poetry contest!

>Full details are up on the Master and Commander page of my website, www.JaneAustenDancing.ca and I'm creating a photo gallery from last year's event as well.
>Enquiries are coming in from both Canadians and Americans.


Message 68cdafb5gpf-10088-1052+19.htm, number 128057, was posted on Tue Aug 15 at 17:32:00
in reply to 46d30bbe00A-10085-42+1c.htm

Re^3: Gentleman in Moscow

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Sounds like enough to make a guy feeling like throwing in the Towle.

On Sat Aug 12, Max wrote
------------------------
>I haven't read  'Lincoln in the Bardo'. No plan not to. Just too much going on to read as much as I like.
>My astonishment at the dinner party is that GIM as about nothing if it isn't about the decade after decade changes in society post 1922. Words like "Bolsheviks" are on every page. There are cars and radios.
>I'm just astonished that educated people can miss by a full century.
>
>
>
>
>n Fri Aug 11, Joe McWilliams wrote
>-----------------------------------
>>Thanks for the heads-up, Max. I will be sure now not to make that mistake if I ever get my hands on A Gentleman in Moscow, which - due to my reliance on regional library system inventory - may not be for a long time. I checked last night and found every copy of Towle in the system is out and with a waiting list. I had no idea. Same for George Saunders, I notice. Has anyone here read 'Lincoln in the Bardo?'

>>On Thu Aug 10, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>Well, this was depressing. I went to a dinner party of seemingly bright, educated people. Not young.
>>>They were reading A Gentleman in Moscow with great enjoyment.
>>>So far, so good.
>>>While discussing the book however it became apparent that they thought it took place during, or right after, the Napoleonic era.

>>>I didn't know where to start.


Message ad2078cfhi9-10089-766+05.htm, number 128058, was posted on Wed Aug 16 at 12:46:54
in reply to 46d1cb1200A-10087-1370+07.htm

Re: The address, "Dundas West" is certainly promising

Adam Quinan
hms.bee@gmail.com


Dundas Road is so-called because it runs towards the small town of Dundas, Ontario. However, Dundas town is named after Heneage's brother, Viscount Melville, 1st Lord of the Admiralty who was more sympathetic to Jack Aubrey than Earl St Vincent, aka Old Jarvy.


On Mon Aug 14, Max wrote
------------------------


>On Mon Aug 14, Adam Quinan wrote
>--------------------------------
>>MASTER AND COMMANDER

>>A Weekend in Nelson's Navy

>>at Historic Montgomery's Inn
>>(4709 Dundas West at Islington), Fort York, Campbell House Museum, and aboard tall ship Playfair.

>>September 22-24, 2017

>>The year is 1800. Standing on the deck of a British warship, you hear the wind snapping her sails and the creak of her wooden hull. Then -- a strange ship is sighted on the horizon, and you're off in hot pursuit!

>>This event offers a unique immersive experience: you will spend the weekend in the world of the Royal Navy of 200 years ago.

>>The three-day weekend includes:

>>--Crewing (or just relaxing) aboard a tall ship out on Lake Ontario
>>-- historical music and dance
>>--five historical meals by firelight, including toasted cheese, sea
>>pie and spotted dog
>>--speakers on Jack's ships real and fictional, a newly discovered MS
>>of music used by naval and military bands, and Jane Austen's naval
>>brothers
>>--a display and talk on antique navigational instruments
>>--lessons in letter-writing with quill pens and sealing wax, using the
>>bosun's pipes, and cutlass
>>--demonstrations in cutlass, pike and musket drill
>>--a lieutenants' examination board (in full dress uniform)
>>--reading the Articles of War e& divisions on Sunday
>>--a book table by the fabulous Nautical Mind bookshop, merchants
>>(Joseph the Chandler and Linda's Early Fashions)
>>--tours of 1812-era Fort York and late-Georgian Campbell House museum
>>--historical games and newspapers, and -- wait for it -- a bad naval
>>poetry contest!

>>Full details are up on the Master and Commander page of my website, www.JaneAustenDancing.ca and I'm creating a photo gallery from last year's event as well.
>>Enquiries are coming in from both Canadians and Americans.


Message 4747f4808HW-10089-857-30.htm, number 128059, was posted on Wed Aug 16 at 14:17:07
LORAN returning as a backup system.

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


The lead article From SANS NewsBites Vol. 19 Num. 062 (Aug 8).  Email me if you'd like me send you a full copy of this semi-weekly digest of recent computer-security events.

Ships Reviving Radio Navigation for GPS Back-Up
(August 7, 2017)
 
Increasing concerns about the reliability of GPS satellite-based navigation systems for ships is prompting some countries to develop radio-based back-up navigation systems. GPS satellite signals can be jammed or spoofed, and are susceptible to interference from solar weather as well as from deliberate attacks.
 
Editor's Note:

[Pescatore]
Denial of service and ransomware attacks, as well as natural disasters, continue to point out the need for backup capabilities. Just as important as the backup system are the skills people need to periodically test and use the backup systems. Business users dependent on apps that tell them where to turn should still know how to use an actual navigation and maybe even (eek) read a map. (In full disclosure, I'm a ham radio operator and am quite prepared to use Morse Code over HF radio as my Internet backup...)

[Northcutt]
The Naval Academy went so far as to reinstitute training in celestial navigation. Keep in mind the "founder" of GPS supports the use of e-Loran, blind faith in the easily jammable GPS is not wise. I wonder if any motorists still have paper maps?
www.npr.org: U.S. Navy Brings Back Navigation By The Stars For Officers

Read more in:
- arstechnica.com: Radio navigation set to make global return as GPS backup, because cyber
- www.reuters.com: Cyber threats prompt return of radio for ship navigation


Message 4747f4808HW-10089-857+1e.htm, number 128059, was edited on Wed Aug 16 at 14:18:02
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10089-857-30.htm

LORAN returning as a backup system.

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


An item From SANS NewsBites Vol. 19 Num. 062 (Aug 8).  Email me if you'd like me send you a full copy of this semi-weekly digest of recent computer-security events.

Ships Reviving Radio Navigation for GPS Back-Up
(August 7, 2017)
 
Increasing concerns about the reliability of GPS satellite-based navigation systems for ships is prompting some countries to develop radio-based back-up navigation systems. GPS satellite signals can be jammed or spoofed, and are susceptible to interference from solar weather as well as from deliberate attacks.
 
Editor's Note:

[Pescatore]
Denial of service and ransomware attacks, as well as natural disasters, continue to point out the need for backup capabilities. Just as important as the backup system are the skills people need to periodically test and use the backup systems. Business users dependent on apps that tell them where to turn should still know how to use an actual navigation and maybe even (eek) read a map. (In full disclosure, I'm a ham radio operator and am quite prepared to use Morse Code over HF radio as my Internet backup...)

[Northcutt]
The Naval Academy went so far as to reinstitute training in celestial navigation. Keep in mind the "founder" of GPS supports the use of e-Loran, blind faith in the easily jammable GPS is not wise. I wonder if any motorists still have paper maps?
www.npr.org: U.S. Navy Brings Back Navigation By The Stars For Officers

Read more in:
- arstechnica.com: Radio navigation set to make global return as GPS backup, because cyber
- www.reuters.com: Cyber threats prompt return of radio for ship navigation

[ This message was edited on Wed Aug 16 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10090-726-90.htm, number 128060, was posted on Thu Aug 17 at 12:05:43
Summer’s Grace by Vanessa Hannam (review)

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Peggy Woodford on a tale of absence at sea:

'ANYONE who enjoys the naval historical novels of Patrick O’Brian will like Summer’s Grace, by Vanessa Hannam.

It tells the story of Commodore George Anson’s voyage in his flagship Centurion, leaving Ports­mouth in 1740 to circumnavi­gate the globe, accompanied by four other great ships. All superficially looks well, but the crews supplied by the corrupt Admiralty are poor sick men impressed from jails, hospitals, and street corners; the ships them­selves are already alive with rats and lice; and food stocks are of the poorest quality.

Unlike O’Brian’s books, Hannam’s main narrative concentrates on those who are left behind: the families who will have to wait months, even years, without news of their loved ones . . '

www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2017/11-august/books-arts/book-reviews/ships-in-the-offing


Message 50e5a913p13-10090-735+04.htm, number 128061, was posted on Thu Aug 17 at 12:15:24
in reply to ad2078cfhi9-10089-766+05.htm

Re^2: The address, "Dundas West" is certainly promising

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Wed Aug 16, Adam Quinan wrote
--------------------------------
>Dundas Road is so-called because it runs towards the small town of Dundas, Ontario. However, Dundas town is named after Heneage's brother, Viscount Melville, 1st Lord of the Admiralty who was more sympathetic to Jack Aubrey than Earl St Vincent, aka Old Jarvy.
>
Dundas, Henry, first Viscount Melville (1742–1811), politician, was born on 28 April 1742 . .  fourth son among seven children of Robert Dundas, Lord Arniston . .

The post Melville wanted and at length got was first lord of the Admiralty. The country felt no less alarmed than in 1797, but he was sure invasion could be defeated. Against it he devised a triple shield: blockade of the enemy's ports, control of the narrow seas, and means of resistance along the coasts. It occurred to him that he could demonstrate to the French the vanity of their designs by running fire ships into the harbours and destroying the transports. He himself sailed across to stand off Boulogne and observe an experiment on these lines—the nearest he ever got to going abroad.

On Melville's taking office the navy had 81 ships of the line afloat. The number of vessels launched during his term at the Admiralty was higher than in any similar period of its history. By the summer of 1805 Britain boasted 105 ships of the line on active service, and five others almost of the same standard. That autumn she would have 120, including 26 new ones. Of these, 80 were deployed round Europe, most on the dreary and arduous duty of blockading; 24 rode off Brest alone. This meant that the French, Dutch, and Spanish fleets, though together bigger than the Royal Navy, were useless because they could not get out of harbour.

Britain then ruled the rest of the world's oceans. Melville maintained that, since there was no chance of challenging Napoleon on land, a bigger and better navy offered the only chance of renewing offensive operations. He was promptly vindicated by Nelson's victory at the battle of Trafalgar. This settled the naval war for the duration. Never again would France dare to challenge Britain at sea. That meant Britain could not be defeated, even while she and her allies were still a long way off defeating France. Nelson had been an untiring importuner at the Admiralty for ever more vessels to deploy in his actions, and Melville had done everything possible to satisfy these demands. He could claim to be the man who made the dead hero's triumph possible.
Impeachment and death.

By the time of Trafalgar, however, Melville had left the Admiralty . .

. . Melville stood high in the estimation of Scotland, Britain, and the empire at the time of his death (in 1811) , as attested by tributes written and monuments erected to him. But he aroused peculiar rancour among the Scots whigs whom he kept so long in the wilderness. His kinsman Henry Cockburn gave them ammunition in his memoirs with many aperçus which were still generous in a personal sense but harped on the plenitude of his power.

This was the prelude to a sharp fall in Melville's reputation in the later nineteenth and the twentieth century. It created a conventional view of him as a monster of corruption and oppression who had sold out his country and countrymen to the English. For good measure Sir John Fortescue's military history condemned Melville's conduct of war, which certainly looked the worse if no account was taken of his maritime strategy. But Vincent Harlow's imperial history, stressing his creative rethinking, began a rehabilitation which in the military sphere was completed by Michael Duffy's and David Geggus's effective refutation of Fortescue's strictures.

More recent scholarship has pointed to his role in maintaining the cohesion of Scottish government and in averting the subordination that Irish government suffered, while making the union of 1707 a partnership which justified calling the empire a British rather than an English one.

DNB.


Message 50e5a913p13-10090-737+04.htm, number 128061, was edited on Thu Aug 17 at 12:17:18
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10090-735+04.htm

'Dundas, Henry, first Viscount Melville (1742–1811), . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Wed Aug 16, Adam Quinan wrote
--------------------------------
>Dundas Road is so-called because it runs towards the small town of Dundas, Ontario. However, Dundas town is named after Heneage's brother, Viscount Melville, 1st Lord of the Admiralty who was more sympathetic to Jack Aubrey than Earl St Vincent, aka Old Jarvy.
>
. . politician, was born on 28 April 1742 . .  fourth son among seven children of Robert Dundas, Lord Arniston . .

The post Melville wanted and at length got was first lord of the Admiralty. The country felt no less alarmed than in 1797, but he was sure invasion could be defeated. Against it he devised a triple shield: blockade of the enemy's ports, control of the narrow seas, and means of resistance along the coasts. It occurred to him that he could demonstrate to the French the vanity of their designs by running fire ships into the harbours and destroying the transports. He himself sailed across to stand off Boulogne and observe an experiment on these lines—the nearest he ever got to going abroad.

On Melville's taking office the navy had 81 ships of the line afloat. The number of vessels launched during his term at the Admiralty was higher than in any similar period of its history. By the summer of 1805 Britain boasted 105 ships of the line on active service, and five others almost of the same standard. That autumn she would have 120, including 26 new ones. Of these, 80 were deployed round Europe, most on the dreary and arduous duty of blockading; 24 rode off Brest alone. This meant that the French, Dutch, and Spanish fleets, though together bigger than the Royal Navy, were useless because they could not get out of harbour.

Britain then ruled the rest of the world's oceans. Melville maintained that, since there was no chance of challenging Napoleon on land, a bigger and better navy offered the only chance of renewing offensive operations. He was promptly vindicated by Nelson's victory at the battle of Trafalgar. This settled the naval war for the duration. Never again would France dare to challenge Britain at sea. That meant Britain could not be defeated, even while she and her allies were still a long way off defeating France. Nelson had been an untiring importuner at the Admiralty for ever more vessels to deploy in his actions, and Melville had done everything possible to satisfy these demands. He could claim to be the man who made the dead hero's triumph possible.
Impeachment and death.

By the time of Trafalgar, however, Melville had left the Admiralty . .

. . Melville stood high in the estimation of Scotland, Britain, and the empire at the time of his death (in 1811) , as attested by tributes written and monuments erected to him. But he aroused peculiar rancour among the Scots whigs whom he kept so long in the wilderness. His kinsman Henry Cockburn gave them ammunition in his memoirs with many aperçus which were still generous in a personal sense but harped on the plenitude of his power.

This was the prelude to a sharp fall in Melville's reputation in the later nineteenth and the twentieth century. It created a conventional view of him as a monster of corruption and oppression who had sold out his country and countrymen to the English. For good measure Sir John Fortescue's military history condemned Melville's conduct of war, which certainly looked the worse if no account was taken of his maritime strategy. But Vincent Harlow's imperial history, stressing his creative rethinking, began a rehabilitation which in the military sphere was completed by Michael Duffy's and David Geggus's effective refutation of Fortescue's strictures.

More recent scholarship has pointed to his role in maintaining the cohesion of Scottish government and in averting the subordination that Irish government suffered, while making the union of 1707 a partnership which justified calling the empire a British rather than an English one.

DNB.

[ This message was edited on Thu Aug 17 by the author ]


Message 6bd5c1a400A-10090-1032-07.htm, number 128062, was posted on Thu Aug 17 at 17:12:21
A Possible Good Read

Lee Shore


I picked up from our library today, The Jersey Brothers by Sally Mott Freeman.  It's about three brothers, all Naval officers, who each are at the epicenter of a crucial moment in WWII. I was attracted to the book by the fact my boyhood town, Audubon, NJ with a population of under 10,000 has three Medal Of Honor recipients, the highest per capita of any town in America. I thought maybe they might have come from there, but they did not. So far I am really enjoying this book. I am surprised to learn of General MacArthur's blatant lack of preparedness in the Philippines.

Message 6242bb3b00A-10090-1244+52.htm, number 128063, was posted on Thu Aug 17 at 20:44:04
in reply to 46d3102500A-10085-1253+57.htm

Re^2: Fram, of course!

YA


www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ToUAkEF_d4
I'll have to watch this movie again someday, maybe I'll be able to make sense ofit.
On Sat Aug 12, Max wrote
------------------------
>By odd coincidence I am reading The Mission Song and Fram just came up appropo of nothing.
>What are the odds?
>
>
>
>n Thu Aug 10, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>It means "forward" in Norwegian. She originally belonged to Nansen. A brilliantly-designed ship for Arctic exploration, she can't be crushed by the ice because her bottom is rounded so the ice will simply push her up. You can take a tour in Oslo.

Message 4747f4808HW-10091-796-30.htm, number 128064, was posted on Fri Aug 18 at 13:16:43
The Long Ships

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Wish me well.  A while ago I wrote down some books I've long wanted to read or reread, and Wednesday I got around to ordering them on eBay. I just got word that The Long Ships has shipped.  Read it just once, as a teenager, and never forgot it.  When I started cooking for myself, I started using thyme purely because of that book, and to this day it's one of a handful of items in my spice cabinet that I'm never without.

Message 47e54da900A-10092-308-07.htm, number 128065, was posted on Sat Aug 19 at 05:07:36
How the sea snake got her black skin.

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com

Message c61740a68YV-10092-837+07.htm, number 128066, was posted on Sat Aug 19 at 13:57:00
in reply to 47e54da900A-10092-308-07.htm

What? Are we reverting to the Dark Ages?

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

LaMarck would be proud.



On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www.nytimes


Message 46d3016500A-10092-974+1b.htm, number 128067, was posted on Sat Aug 19 at 16:13:59
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10089-857+1e.htm

Re: LORAN returning as a backup system.

Max



Excellent idea. I am long convinced that GPS will be down exactly when most needed.


On Wed Aug 16, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>An item From SANS NewsBites Vol. 19 Num. 062 (Aug 8).  Email me if you'd like me send you a full copy of this semi-weekly digest of recent computer-security events.

>

Ships Reviving Radio Navigation for GPS Back-Up
>(August 7, 2017)
>  
>Increasing concerns about the reliability of GPS satellite-based navigation systems for ships is prompting some countries to develop radio-based back-up navigation systems. GPS satellite signals can be jammed or spoofed, and are susceptible to interference from solar weather as well as from deliberate attacks.
>  
>Editor's Note:

>[Pescatore]
>Denial of service and ransomware attacks, as well as natural disasters, continue to point out the need for backup capabilities. Just as important as the backup system are the skills people need to periodically test and use the backup systems. Business users dependent on apps that tell them where to turn should still know how to use an actual navigation and maybe even (eek) read a map. (In full disclosure, I'm a ham radio operator and am quite prepared to use Morse Code over HF radio as my Internet backup...)
>
>[Northcutt]
>The Naval Academy went so far as to reinstitute training in celestial navigation. Keep in mind the "founder" of GPS supports the use of e-Loran, blind faith in the easily jammable GPS is not wise. I wonder if any motorists still have paper maps?
>www.npr.org: U.S. Navy Brings Back Navigation By The Stars For Officers

>Read more in:
>- arstechnica.com: Radio navigation set to make global return as GPS backup, because cyber
>- www.reuters.com: Cyber threats prompt return of radio for ship navigation


Message c61740a68YV-10092-1005+1d.htm, number 128068, was posted on Sat Aug 19 at 16:45:23
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10091-796-30.htm

Re: The Long Ships

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


Such an enjoyable book.  I wish you joy in your return voyage.  

I don't recall the thyme in particular...(seems like there's a pun in there somewhere).


On Fri Aug 18, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Wish me well.  A while ago I wrote down some books I've long wanted to read or reread, and Wednesday I got around to ordering them on eBay. I just got word that The Long Ships has shipped.  Read it just once, as a teenager, and never forgot it.  When I started cooking for myself, I started using thyme purely because of that book, and to this day it's one of a handful of items in my spice cabinet that I'm never without.


Message 47e54da900A-10093-405-07.htm, number 128069, was posted on Sun Aug 20 at 06:44:42
"USS Indianapolis" found

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2017/08/19/us/uss-indianapolis-wreckage-found/index.html

Message 46d3040800A-10093-602+07.htm, number 128070, was posted on Sun Aug 20 at 10:01:42
in reply to 47e54da900A-10093-405-07.htm

Re: "USS Indianapolis" found

Max


Well done. Now let's record the location and leave it alone.


On Sun Aug 20, Hoyden  wrote
----------------------------
>www.cnn.com/2017/08/19/us/uss-indianapolis-wreckage-found/index.html

Message 47e54da900A-10093-1247-07.htm, number 128071, was posted on Sun Aug 20 at 20:46:53
Another month, another collision. "USS McCain" v tanker

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2017/08/20/asia/us-navy-destroyer-collision-singapore/index.html?adkey=bn

Message 4747f4808HW-10093-1386+1a.htm, number 128072, was posted on Sun Aug 20 at 23:06:09
in reply to 46d3016500A-10092-974+1b.htm

Re^2: LORAN returning as a backup system.

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Count on it, by corollary:

/* Law #36 of combat operations:  Radar tends to fail at night and in bad weather, and especially during both. */

On Sat Aug 19, Max wrote
------------------------
>Excellent idea. I am long convinced that GPS will be down exactly when most needed.

>On Wed Aug 16, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>An item From SANS NewsBites Vol. 19 Num. 062 (Aug 8).  Email me if you'd like me send you a full copy of this semi-weekly digest of recent computer-security events.

Ships Reviving Radio Navigation for GPS Back-Up
>>(August 7, 2017)
 
>>Increasing concerns about the reliability of GPS satellite-based navigation systems for ships is prompting some countries to develop radio-based back-up navigation systems. GPS satellite signals can be jammed or spoofed, and are susceptible to interference from solar weather as well as from deliberate attacks.
 
>>Editor's Note:

>>[Pescatore]
>>Denial of service and ransomware attacks, as well as natural disasters, continue to point out the need for backup capabilities. Just as important as the backup system are the skills people need to periodically test and use the backup systems. Business users dependent on apps that tell them where to turn should still know how to use an actual navigation and maybe even (eek) read a map. (In full disclosure, I'm a ham radio operator and am quite prepared to use Morse Code over HF radio as my Internet backup...)

>>[Northcutt]
>>The Naval Academy went so far as to reinstitute training in celestial navigation. Keep in mind the "founder" of GPS supports the use of e-Loran, blind faith in the easily jammable GPS is not wise. I wonder if any motorists still have paper maps?
>>www.npr.org: U.S. Navy Brings Back Navigation By The Stars For Officers

>>Read more in:
>>- arstechnica.com: Radio navigation set to make global return as GPS backup, because cyber
>>- www.reuters.com: Cyber threats prompt return of radio for ship navigation


Message 46d3016500A-10094-155+06.htm, number 128073, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 02:34:43
in reply to 47e54da900A-10093-1247-07.htm

Re: Another month, another collision. "USS McCain" v tanker

Max


This is seriously screwed up. 4 ships?!


n Sun Aug 20, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www.cnn.com/2017/08/20/asia/us-navy-destroyer-collision-singapore/index.html?adkey=bn

Message c2371a08sVT-10094-183+1b.htm, number 128074, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 03:02:47
in reply to c61740a68YV-10092-1005+1d.htm

Re^2: The Long Ships

Otto
dweller@meinberlikomm.de


Agreed, a wonderful book.

Someone here recommended it to me long ago. Since then I've given at least four copies away as gifts. My parents both loved. My mother turned her book club on to it.

Thanks again, discussion forum.


Message c2371e07sVT-10094-191+1b.htm, number 128075, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 03:11:19
in reply to c61740a68YV-10092-1005+1d.htm

Re^2: The Long Ships

Otto
dweller@meinberlikomm.de


Agreed, a wonderful book.

Someone here recommended it to me long ago. Since then I've given at least four copies away as gifts. My parents both loved. My mother turned her book club on to it.

Thanks again, discussion forum.


Message 50e5a913p13-10094-366+06.htm, number 128076, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 06:05:52
in reply to 47e54da900A-10093-1247-07.htm

Updates

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


latest @ 1000 UTC:

www.c7f.navy.mil/

www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/News/Display/Article/1283915/uss-john-s-mccain-pulls-into-changi-naval-base-update-355-pm-jst-aug-21-2017/


Message c2371a08sVT-10094-523+1b.htm, number 128074, was edited on Mon Aug 21 at 08:43:27
and replaces message c2371a08sVT-10094-183+1b.htm

Re^2: The Long Ships

Otto
dweller@meinberlikomm.de


Agreed, a wonderful book.
I first read it after someone on this forum recommended it warmly.  Since then I've given at least four copies away as gifts. My wife, parents and siblings all loved it. My mother turned her book club on to it.

Thanks again, discussion forum.

[ This message was edited on Mon Aug 21 by the author ]


Message 4747f4808HW-10094-659+1b.htm, number 128077, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 10:59:21
in reply to c61740a68YV-10092-1005+1d.htm

Re^2: The Long Ships

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I've forgotten some of the dialogue, but it was near the end of the  book; as they were approaching country they knew, they bought a meal at an inn and rejoiced at food that tasted at least somewhat like home.  "There is thyme in it", one of them said with tears in his eyes.  For some reason that stuck in my memory.  I don't think I was able to identify thyme in my own food at the time, but as an adult thyme and marjoram are two of a handful of spices I never allow to run out.

On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>Such an enjoyable book.  I wish you joy in your return voyage.  

>I don't recall the thyme in particular...(seems like there's a pun in there somewhere).

>On Fri Aug 18, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>Wish me well.  A while ago I wrote down some books I've long wanted to read or reread, and Wednesday I got around to ordering them on eBay. I just got word that The Long Ships has shipped.  Read it just once, as a teenager, and never forgot it.  When I started cooking for myself, I started using thyme purely because of that book, and to this day it's one of a handful of items in my spice cabinet that I'm never without.


Message c61740a68YV-10094-751+06.htm, number 128078, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 12:31:10
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10094-366+06.htm

Re: Query...

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


How do you not notice that a 600-ft vessel is too close to you?

The hell with the laser guns - seems as if our navy can be taken out by unarmed merchant ships.  The shipyards here DO seem to be inordinately busy these days....

So, I work 3 blocks from the front gate of North Island and live within a mile of Miramar (the 'Top Gun' from the movie, now it is in Nevada... still have Osprey and bombers flying over the house, though)

Protected or Target, do you think?


Message 56003e26cb5-10094-774+06.htm, number 128079, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 12:53:54
in reply to 46d3040800A-10093-602+07.htm

As a war grave, it should not be touched.

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com


In the USA it's governed by the Sunken Military Craft Act. The Navy may issue permits to dive on the location for specific purposes only.

Here's a brief summary:

Revised Navy Sunken and Terrestrial Military Craft Permitting Guidelines Published in Federal Register


Message 50e5a913p13-10094-792+06.htm, number 128080, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 13:12:13
in reply to 46d3040800A-10093-602+07.htm

Other wrecks have been salvaged

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Sun Aug 20, Max wrote
------------------------
>Well done. Now let's record the location and leave it alone.

The great depth of this wreck (3+ miles) may save it from the salvage scavengers, unlike HMS Exeter, 200’ down, which has virtually disappeared as have several Dutch warships.


Message 50e5a913p13-10094-794+06.htm, number 128081, was posted on Mon Aug 21 at 13:14:18
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10094-774+06.htm

Which it’s in the Philippines’ waters . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Mon Aug 21, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>In the USA it's governed by the Sunken Military Craft Act. The Navy may issue permits to dive on the location for specific purposes only.

. . so protecting it - or not - iss amatter for them.


Message 4747f4808HW-10095-555+12.htm, number 128082, was posted on Tue Aug 22 at 09:15:41
in reply to 31bb0f9f00A-10085-236+1c.htm

Re^2: What do we think of that fellow... (on-topic)

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


It's an interesting contrast, the apparent brusqueness and the happy ship.  I'm reminded that I did something similar myself, probably more than once but I have one episode in mind.  I grew up in Minnesota, but I was currently living in NC, engaged to a woman born in Wilmington NC.  During part of our engagement I was going to UNC-G in her home town, and I ate at her parents' house frequently.  Her father was from Georgia and her mother local.  My future mother-in-law, according to the practice she grew up with, on many occasions offered me more of <insert dish here> ("Bob, would you like more collard greens?" / "There's more corn if you'd like some.")  I never quite understood the rationale, since the dish was in plain sight on the table and they'd always made me feel perfectly comfortable so I could certainly ask if I wanted anything.  I usually said so—not impatiently, just smiling and saying that I could see it plainly there and could ask.

On this particular evening, as she offered something yet again, I said nothing, just opened my mouth wide as a child being fed and looked at her expectantly.  She threw a pea at me (pleasing me mightily), and understanding was established.

I mention this not exactly to defend Vandeput (or for that matter myself) but to suggest that maybe the discourtesy of his first words were not meant in the spirit that they appear in writing.

On Sat Aug 12, wombat wrote
---------------------------
>Maybe PO'B meant to hint at the flaws in the personalities of both Clonfert and Corbett? A hint of further clashes? (I'm not sure as I haven't re-read TMC in years).

>I googled because googling is what I *do*. PO'B lifted the episode straight from "Life of a Seaman". Cochrane was being pleasant to his new admiral, Vandeput, a man who could be intimidating on first aquaintance:

>"On joining this ship a few days afterwards my reception was anything but encouraging.

>"Being seated near the admiral at dinner, he inquired what dish was before me. Mentioning its nature, I asked if he would permit me to help him. The uncourteous reply was — that whenever he wished for anything he was in the habit of asking for it. Not knowing what to make of a rebuff of this nature, it was  met by an inquiry if he would allow me the honour  of taking wine with him. "I never take wine with  any man, my lord," was the unexpected reply, from  which it struck me that my lot was cast among Goths, if no worse".

>On further acquaintance the admiral proved to be one of the kindest of commanders. "There was not a happier ship afloat, nor one in which the officers lived in more perfect harmony".

>On Thu Aug 10, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>What do we think of that fellow who said, "I never drink a glass of wine with any man"? I believe he said this to Clonfert in The Mauritius Command. This seems deliberately offensive, and I can't imagine the justification for it. If you drink wine, why should you not drink a glass in friendship with another, as custom doth dictate? Is there some obligation imposed thereby, that he wished to avoid?


Message 50e5a913p13-10095-843-90.htm, number 128083, was posted on Tue Aug 22 at 14:02:55
Cooperation is the key to defeating pirates – here’s why

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘PIRATES are notoriously hard to capture. Their actions occur on the shifting, vast expanse of the open oceans. Perpetrators cannot simply be “arrested” by a conventional police force and, even if they are caught, it’s a challenge to prosecute an offender who by their very nature transcends borders. There is no single answer to the problem, particularly given pirates’ different guises and motivations. Yet a study of historical anti-piracy operations, both ancient and recent, does reveal one commonality in the repression of piracy: international cooperation . .

Yet piracy is going nowhere anytime soon. The Gulf of Guinea and the seas of South-East Asia, both areas where valuable maritime trade clashes with lacklustre governance, have superseded East Africa as new “pirate hotspots” where successors to Blackbeard’s brethren continue to put maritime trade to the sword.
New approaches are needed, and the root causes have to be addressed. Yet the core of any successful strategy will always be the same: international cooperation and unity of purpose. The international community must constantly unite against common threats, be they piracy, terrorism, or international crime.

[theconversation.com/cooperation-is-the-key-to-defeating-pirates-heres-why-80427]
[www.hellenicshippingnews.com/nigerian-piracy-in-the-gulf-of-guinea-a-major-risk-for-merchant-shipping/]
[www.dw.com/en/southeast-asia-a-pirates-paradise/a-18599742]


Message 47e54da900A-10098-359-07.htm, number 128084, was posted on Fri Aug 25 at 05:58:59
Rain in the Atacama Desert. Stephen would go a-botanizing.

Hoyden


qz.com/1061207/atacama-desert-the-driest-place-on-earth-is-blooming-with-flowers-after-surprise-rainfall/?mc_cid=ace82beedb&mc_eid=7bdf330d5e

Message 4747f4808HW-10098-663-30.htm, number 128085, was posted on Fri Aug 25 at 11:03:01
Continuing the sea-snake conversation

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>LaMarck would be proud.

>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>---------------------------
>>www.nytimes


Message 50e5a913p13-10098-803-90.htm, number 128086, was posted on Fri Aug 25 at 13:23:29
Life cycle of the dodo revealed

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


BULBOUS-beaked, plump and puny-winged, the dodo has been immortalised by humans in art, literature and song. But while the peculiar animals have inspired a panoply of research, not least as to whether they were really bird-brained or as corpulent as portraits implied, much about the dodo’s life has remained a mystery until now.

Scientists studying remains of the extinct avians say they have managed to put flesh on the bones of the dodo’s existence, revealing aspects of their life from when they laid eggs to how quickly they reached adulthood, and even that they shed and regrew their plumage each year . .

[www.theguardian.com/science/2017/aug/24/life-cycle-of-the-mysterious-and-long-dead-dodo-revealed-by-bone-study#img-2]

or, more formally:

‘CONCLUSION: This study of the bone histology of the dodo provides insight into the life history of this recently extinct bird. In order to deduce the timing of the events such as reproduction and molting we have considered the histological patterns, modern birds in Mauritius and the ecology of the area.

From these we propose that the breeding season started several months before the austral summer (around August) with ovulation in the females, and that it occurred after a period of potential fattening, which corresponds with the fat and thin cycles recorded in many Mauritian vertebrates, both living and extinct.

We further suggest, that after the eggs were laid and chicks hatched, they grew quickly to almost adult body size and attained sexual maturity before the cyclone period in the austral summer. Additionally, our findings could indicate that following the breeding season and the end of the austral summer, molting began (around March) with the replacement of the feathers of the wings and the tail first.

Thus, at the end of July, the molt would have been completed in time for the next breeding season. These novel findings about the life history of the dodo have been deduced from the bone microstructure and the proposed timing thereof appear to correlate well with the current observations of modern birds in Mauritius, and have been further corroborated by historical descriptions.

[Bone histology sheds new light on the ecology of the dodo (Raphus cucullatus, Aves, Columbiformes) Scientific Reports (2017). nature.com/articles/doi:10.1038/s41598-017-08536-3 ]


Message c61740a68YV-10098-876+1e.htm, number 128087, was posted on Fri Aug 25 at 14:37:05
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10098-663-30.htm

Re: Continuing the sea-snake conversation

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


Beware the uneducated...

Check out YouTube for a stupendous amount of stupidity related to 'proof' of the Earth being flat.  These people are serious - they have 'proof'. Mathematics, Physics and Logic are not subjects with which they are familiar.

What does this sentence mean? -

"We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

Who are 'We' and who told you that?  This happened 150 years ago - in Europe.

YOU should never have been told that was true in any American science class.

The black/white moth scenario is a classic example of Charles Darwin's Natural Selection. The white moths die off; the black moths live to procreate.

Lamarck's theory was that species could 'adapt' (alter their appearance, or whatever other change was necessary) within a single lifetime and pass that change onto their progeny.

Genetics, anyone?



On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

>I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

>On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>>LaMarck would be proud.

>>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>>---------------------------
>>>www.nytimes


Message 6242bb3b00A-10098-982+1e.htm, number 128088, was posted on Fri Aug 25 at 16:22:14
in reply to c61740a68YV-10098-876+1e.htm

Re^2: Continuing the sea-snake conversation

YA


"light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

Or, ya know, the population adapted through natural selection.

Enjoy your game of pigeon chess, I'll be over here popping popcorn.

On Fri Aug 25, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>Beware the uneducated...

>Check out YouTube for a stupendous amount of stupidity related to 'proof' of the Earth being flat.  These people are serious - they have 'proof'. Mathematics, Physics and Logic are not subjects with which they are familiar.

>What does this sentence mean? -

>"We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>Who are 'We' and who told you that?  This happened 150 years ago - in Europe.

>YOU should never have been told that was true in any American science class.

>The black/white moth scenario is a classic example of Charles Darwin's Natural Selection. The white moths die off; the black moths live to procreate.

>Lamarck's theory was that species could 'adapt' (alter their appearance, or whatever other change was necessary) within a single lifetime and pass that change onto their progeny.

>Genetics, anyone?
>
>
>
>On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

>>I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

>>On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
>>---------------------------
>>>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>>>LaMarck would be proud.

>>>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>>>---------------------------
>>>>www.nytimes


Message c61740a68YV-10098-1026+1e.htm, number 128089, was posted on Fri Aug 25 at 17:06:44
in reply to 6242bb3b00A-10098-982+1e.htm

Re^3: What?

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


I'm missing your point.  The NYT's article was stating the Lamarckian solution (swapped speckled wings), not Bob.

But Bob said, "We were told....etc" as if that had been presented to him at some time as a fact.  I certainly hope that is not the case.

And I'd be really happy if the 'Trilobites' author rewrote that piece to reflect reality.


On Fri Aug 25, YA wrote
-----------------------
>"light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>Or, ya know, the population adapted through natural selection.

>Enjoy your game of pigeon chess, I'll be over here popping popcorn.

>On Fri Aug 25, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>Beware the uneducated...

>>Check out YouTube for a stupendous amount of stupidity related to 'proof' of the Earth being flat.  These people are serious - they have 'proof'. Mathematics, Physics and Logic are not subjects with which they are familiar.

>>What does this sentence mean? -

>>"We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>>Who are 'We' and who told you that?  This happened 150 years ago - in Europe.

>>YOU should never have been told that was true in any American science class.

>>The black/white moth scenario is a classic example of Charles Darwin's Natural Selection. The white moths die off; the black moths live to procreate.

>>Lamarck's theory was that species could 'adapt' (alter their appearance, or whatever other change was necessary) within a single lifetime and pass that change onto their progeny.

>>Genetics, anyone?
>>
>>
>>
>>On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

>>>I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

>>>On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
>>>---------------------------
>>>>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>>>>LaMarck would be proud.

>>>>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>>>>---------------------------
>>>>>www.nytimes


Message c61740a68YV-10098-1036+1e.htm, number 128089, was edited on Fri Aug 25 at 17:16:17
and replaces message c61740a68YV-10098-1026+1e.htm

Re^3: What?

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


I'm missing your point.  The NYT's article was stating the Lamarckian solution (swapped speckled wings), not Bob.

But Bob said, "We were told....etc" as if that had been presented to him at some time as a fact.  I certainly hope that is not the case.

And I'd be really happy if the 'Trilobites' author rewrote that piece to reflect reality because it's the same fuzzy logic as what the Flat Earth Society is using,e.g. -  The horizon is flat therefore the Earth must be flat.  Don't you believe what your own eyes tell you?

The moths didn't swap out their wings and the snakes didn't change their color.

On Fri Aug 25, YA wrote
-----------------------
>"light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>Or, ya know, the population adapted through natural selection.

>Enjoy your game of pigeon chess, I'll be over here popping popcorn.

>On Fri Aug 25, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>Beware the uneducated...

>>Check out YouTube for a stupendous amount of stupidity related to 'proof' of the Earth being flat.  These people are serious - they have 'proof'. Mathematics, Physics and Logic are not subjects with which they are familiar.

>>What does this sentence mean? -

>>"We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>>Who are 'We' and who told you that?  This happened 150 years ago - in Europe.

>>YOU should never have been told that was true in any American science class.

>>The black/white moth scenario is a classic example of Charles Darwin's Natural Selection. The white moths die off; the black moths live to procreate.

>>Lamarck's theory was that species could 'adapt' (alter their appearance, or whatever other change was necessary) within a single lifetime and pass that change onto their progeny.

>>Genetics, anyone?
>>
>>
>>
>>On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

>>>I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

>>>On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
>>>---------------------------
>>>>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>>>>LaMarck would be proud.

>>>>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>>>>---------------------------
>>>>>www.nytimes

[ This message was edited on Fri Aug 25 by the author ]


Message 6242bb3b00A-10098-1124+1e.htm, number 128090, was posted on Fri Aug 25 at 18:47:19
in reply to c61740a68YV-10098-1036+1e.htm

Re^4: What?

YA


My point was he denies adaptation occurs, then describes the process of adaption.
"...the famous moths didn't adapt... light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

If his implication is that the light winged moths died of depression at not being able to affect color change by force of will, I missed it, and it's moot to my point.  

Anyway, here's proof of Lamarkianism:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbLSFECkhx0


On Fri Aug 25, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>I'm missing your point.  The NYT's article was stating the Lamarckian solution (swapped speckled wings), not Bob.

>But Bob said, "We were told....etc" as if that had been presented to him at some time as a fact.  I certainly hope that is not the case.

>And I'd be really happy if the 'Trilobites' author rewrote that piece to reflect reality because it's the same fuzzy logic as what the Flat Earth Society is using,e.g. -  The horizon is flat therefore the Earth must be flat.  Don't you believe what your own eyes tell you?

>The moths didn't swap out their wings and the snakes didn't change their color.

>On Fri Aug 25, YA wrote
>-----------------------
>>"light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>>Or, ya know, the population adapted through natural selection.

>>Enjoy your game of pigeon chess, I'll be over here popping popcorn.

>>On Fri Aug 25, akatow wrote
>>---------------------------
>>>Beware the uneducated...

>>>Check out YouTube for a stupendous amount of stupidity related to 'proof' of the Earth being flat.  These people are serious - they have 'proof'. Mathematics, Physics and Logic are not subjects with which they are familiar.

>>>What does this sentence mean? -

>>>"We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>>>Who are 'We' and who told you that?  This happened 150 years ago - in Europe.

>>>YOU should never have been told that was true in any American science class.

>>>The black/white moth scenario is a classic example of Charles Darwin's Natural Selection. The white moths die off; the black moths live to procreate.

>>>Lamarck's theory was that species could 'adapt' (alter their appearance, or whatever other change was necessary) within a single lifetime and pass that change onto their progeny.

>>>Genetics, anyone?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>--------------------------------
>>>>The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

>>>>I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

>>>>On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
>>>>---------------------------
>>>>>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>>>>>LaMarck would be proud.

>>>>>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>>>>>---------------------------
>>>>>>www.nytimes


Message 47e54da900A-10099-411-07.htm, number 128091, was posted on Sat Aug 26 at 06:51:17
Peter Guillam is back. "A Legacy of Spies"

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/books/review/john-le-carre-ben-m

Message 44654cc700A-10099-663+1d.htm, number 128092, was posted on Sat Aug 26 at 11:03:37
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10098-663-30.htm

Re: Continuing with moths instead

A-Polly


Speaking of moths and adaptations, did Stephen ever describe one of these?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=prZ8nlqQedE
This is a hummingbird hawk-moth, filmed in Norwich.  I didn't realize that there are no hummingbirds in the UK or Europe, but this moth looks exactly like one!  Can't help but think Stephen would be fascinated.


On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

>I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

>On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>>LaMarck would be proud.

>>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>>---------------------------
>>>www.nytimes


Message 4747f4808HW-10099-776+1d.htm, number 128093, was posted on Sat Aug 26 at 12:57:10
in reply to 6242bb3b00A-10098-1124+1e.htm

I wrote sloppily

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I was thinking that everyone had the same experience in school that I did, so I encapsulated briefly and sloppily, expecting everyone to know what I meant.  Sorry, my bad.  Here's the same thing written out in longhand:

When I was in high school, say in the late '60s, I was taught that pollution in London had gotten so bad that soot and other particulates had darkened the tree trunks, and that moths with light-colored wings were more visible to their predators.  But after a while, moths with darker wings started showing up, more difficult to see.  It's been a lot of years but as I recall this was explained to me, or at least I understood it at the time, as a minor example of evolution in action: The light-winged moths were dying off, but as a species evolved darker wings to survive.  At the time I accepted it.

I later heard the pollution had been somewhat cleared up, the tree trunks began to show lighter in color, and the same process of evolution worked in reverse, that is, moths began to have light wings again.

Later still, when I was in my 20s or 30s I suppose, I read that this is not to be considered an example of a species of moth evolving to survive changing circumstances; there were simply two species or perhaps subspecies of moth.  As the tree trunks darkened, the [sub]species with lighter wings became rarer and the [sub]species with darker wings began to do better.  The reverse happened as the pollution was cleared up.  I accepted this explanation as more likely than evolution by mutation.

Parenthesis: I've noticed that although scientists insist evolution works by random processes, most people including many scientists talk about the "purpose" of various evolutionary changes, as though there is a designer behind it all.  The ones that deny that a hypothetical god has anything to do with it then talk about "Nature" instead.  It seems to me this confuses their language and probably their thoughts as well.  Thus I say above that I understood that the moths had "evolved" darker wings "in order to survive".  This may have been my misunderstanding, but it's how I remember it being presented to me.  Jan, it doesn't sound to me as though you suffer from that confusion.

For akatow: I don't recall anyone telling me it had happened a century before.  (If 150 years ago now, then about 100 years ago when I was in high school.  Boy, time flies.)  I always thought of it as reasonably current, say during the '40s and '50s.  Placing it toward the end of the Industrial Revolution makes more sense.

For YA: As I said, I wrote sloppily.  The above may have made it clear, but when I said the moth species didn't adapt, I meant that a species didn't change their genes to start producing darker wings, but that one species of moth started to do better than the other under the changing circumstances.

Now that I'm required to think about this whole thing, I realize that I don't really know what was happening.  Were the observers at the time mistaking the light- and dark-winged moths for members of the same species?  Were they the same species?  How much genetic variation does it take to produce this difference?  <troll>It's the difference between macroevolution (which seems pretty unscientific to me) and microevolution, which I have no trouble accepting.</troll>

On Fri Aug 25, YA wrote
-----------------------
>My point was he denies adaptation occurs, then describes the process of adaption.
>"...the famous moths didn't adapt... light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

> If his implication is that the light winged moths died of depression at not being able to affect color change by force of will, I missed it, and it's moot to my point.  

>Anyway, here's proof of Lamarkianism:
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbLSFECkhx0

>On Fri Aug 25, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>I'm missing your point.  The NYT's article was stating the Lamarckian solution (swapped speckled wings), not Bob.

>>But Bob said, "We were told....etc" as if that had been presented to him at some time as a fact.  I certainly hope that is not the case.

>>And I'd be really happy if the 'Trilobites' author rewrote that piece to reflect reality because it's the same fuzzy logic as what the Flat Earth Society is using,e.g. -  The horizon is flat therefore the Earth must be flat.  Don't you believe what your own eyes tell you?

>>The moths didn't swap out their wings and the snakes didn't change their color.

>>On Fri Aug 25, YA wrote
>>-----------------------
>>>"light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>>>Or, ya know, the population adapted through natural selection.

>>>Enjoy your game of pigeon chess, I'll be over here popping popcorn.

>>>On Fri Aug 25, akatow wrote
>>>---------------------------
>>>>Beware the uneducated...

>>>>Check out YouTube for a stupendous amount of stupidity related to 'proof' of the Earth being flat.  These people are serious - they have 'proof'. Mathematics, Physics and Logic are not subjects with which they are familiar.

>>>>What does this sentence mean? -

>>>>"We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered."

>>>>Who are 'We' and who told you that?  This happened 150 years ago - in Europe.

>>>>YOU should never have been told that was true in any American science class.

>>>>The black/white moth scenario is a classic example of Charles Darwin's Natural Selection. The white moths die off; the black moths live to procreate.

>>>>Lamarck's theory was that species could 'adapt' (alter their appearance, or whatever other change was necessary) within a single lifetime and pass that change onto their progeny.

>>>>Genetics, anyone?

>>>>On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>>--------------------------------
>>>>>The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

>>>>>I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

>>>>>On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
>>>>>---------------------------
>>>>>>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>>>>>>LaMarck would be proud.

>>>>>>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>>>>>>---------------------------
>>>>>>>www.nytimes


Message 50e5a913p13-10099-889+1d.htm, number 128094, was posted on Sat Aug 26 at 14:50:06
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10098-663-30.htm

Follow the links!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
————————————————
. . forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

There’s adapt at the organism level (e.g. sheltering from a shower under a tree to keep dry) and at the species level as the moths did. The OED lists 7 distinct meanings for ‘adapt; the three from biology are relevant:

'ada t, v. Middle French . .
. . 6. trans. Biol. To modify (an organism, or part of one) through evolutionary change so that it better suits its environment or function. Usually with to, for.
1859 C. Darwin Origin of Species iv. 87 In social animals it [sc. natural selection] will adapt the structure of each individual for the benefit of the community . .

. . 7. intr. Biol.
a. Of an organism: to become acclimatized to environmental conditions, esp. new or changing conditions, through physiological or behavioural change.
. . 2008 N. Draper & C. Hodgson Adventure Sport Physiol. x. 388/1 As you adapt to altitude, catecholamine secretion is reduced.

. . b. Of a variety or species of organism: to become modified through evolution to better fit the environment or an ecological niche. Frequently with to.
1956 Sci. News-let. 12 May 302/2 Through evolution, living creatures adapt closely to their environment . . ‘

The moths are 7.b. 6.a is equivalent.
…………………
From the linked NYT and scientific paper:

. . In a study published in Nature, researchers have pinpointed the precise genetic mutation that led to the darker moth and determined just when this mutation occurred. The same gene, called cortex, was also found to control color patterns on the wings of tropical butterflies in a separate study.

The once rare black peppered moth became commonplace in the United Kingdom during the Industrial Revolution, when its original light speckled wings became a clear target for predators against tree trunks darkened by coal soot. A black version of the same species appeared around 1819, according to the new study. By blending in with the coal-darkened trees, it avoided becoming lunch for birds, passed down its genes and outnumbered the original moth in urban areas for a time.

After searching through a large area of this moth’s genome, Ilik Saccheri, an evolutionary ecologist, and his colleagues at the University of Liverpool found that a single mutation on a gene called cortex was responsible for the wings’ black coloring. The mutation is on a “jumping gene,” or a transposable element, which can hop between locations on the genome . .

[www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/science/moths-butterflies-dna-cortex-genes.html]

‘The industrial melanism mutation in British peppered moths is a transposable element’

‘Discovering the mutational events that fuel adaptation to environmental change remains an important challenge for evolutionary biology. The classroom example of a visible evolutionary response is industrial melanism in the peppered moth (Biston betularia): the replacement, during the Industrial Revolution, of the common pale typica form by a previously unknown black (carbonaria) form, driven by the interaction between bird predation and coal pollution1. The carbonaria locus has been coarsely localized to a 200-kilobase region, but the specific identity and nature of the sequence difference controlling the carbonaria–typica polymorphism, and the gene it influences, are unknown.

Here we show that the mutation event giving rise to industrial melanism in Britain was the insertion of a large, tandemly repeated, transposable element into the first intron of the gene cortex. Statistical inference based on the distribution of recombined carbonaria haplotypes indicates that this transposition event occurred around 1819, consistent with the historical record. We have begun to dissect the mode of action of the carbonaria transposable element by showing that it increases the abundance of a cortex transcript, the protein product of which plays an important role in cell-cycle regulation, during early wing disc development.

Our findings fill a substantial knowledge gap in the iconic example of microevolutionary change, adding a further layer of insight into the mechanism of adaptation in response to natural selection. The discovery that the mutation itself is a transposable element will stimulate further debate about the importance of ‘jumping genes’ as a source of major phenotypic novelty3.’

Arjen E. van’t Hof et al. Nature 534, 102–105 (02 June 2016)
[www.nature.com/nature/journal/v534/n7605/full/nature17951.html]


Message 4747f4808HW-10099-1196+56.htm, number 128095, was posted on Sat Aug 26 at 19:56:29
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10095-843-90.htm

"Arrest"?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm sure I'm not the only one who paused at this word.  The various armed forces who encounter pirates on the high seas may have to think about arresting them, unless they are caught in the very act; but surely the pirates' intended victims have no such need.

On Tue Aug 22, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>‘PIRATES are notoriously hard to capture. Their actions occur on the shifting, vast expanse of the open oceans. Perpetrators cannot simply be “arrested” by a conventional police force and, even if they are caught, it’s a challenge to prosecute an offender who by their very nature transcends borders. There is no single answer to the problem, particularly given pirates’ different guises and motivations. Yet a study of historical anti-piracy operations, both ancient and recent, does reveal one commonality in the repression of piracy: international cooperation . .

>Yet piracy is going nowhere anytime soon. The Gulf of Guinea and the seas of South-East Asia, both areas where valuable maritime trade clashes with lacklustre governance, have superseded East Africa as new “pirate hotspots” where successors to Blackbeard’s brethren continue to put maritime trade to the sword.
>New approaches are needed, and the root causes have to be addressed. Yet the core of any successful strategy will always be the same: international cooperation and unity of purpose. The international community must constantly unite against common threats, be they piracy, terrorism, or international crime.

>[theconversation.com/cooperation-is-the-key-to-defeating-pirates-heres-why-80427]
>[www.hellenicshippingnews.com/nigerian-piracy-in-the-gulf-of-guinea-a-major-risk-for-merchant-shipping/]
>[www.dw.com/en/southeast-asia-a-pirates-paradise/a-18599742]


Message c61740a68YV-10100-960-90.htm, number 128096, was posted on Sun Aug 27 at 16:00:20
Dressing a Regency Lady

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


Shamelessly lifted from FB, this video would have answered a lot of questions back in the day.


Message 47e54da900A-10101-353+1b.htm, number 128097, was posted on Mon Aug 28 at 05:52:58
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10099-776+1d.htm

Speaking of (sexy) moths

Hoyden


www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/sexy-females-help-plain-jane-moths-snag-their-mates?mc_cid=50b329aae1&mc_eid=7bdf330d5e

Message 50e5a913p13-10101-811-90.htm, number 128098, was posted on Mon Aug 28 at 13:30:53
Why Houston has a problem

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


(Monday 6 pm BST):  . . Scientific American just posted an interview with Jeff Masters, co-founder of Weather Underground, who explains Harvey’s extraordinary destructive potency.

On Wednesday it was a tropical storm. By Friday it had been supercharged from a Category 1 hurricane to Category 4. That’s because Harvey passed over an . . extremely warm eddy, 1 to 2 degrees F warmer than the surrounding Gulf of Mexico . . [it] has become wedged between two areas of high-pressure, one system over the SE U.S, the other over the SW U.S. . .

Harvey is still producing so much rain despite being mostly over land [because] it has dropped so much water over such a large area of SE Texas that the storm is pulling that water back up into itself and dumping it again as more rain . . [The] flooding in Houston is so severe [because] water swollen rivers heading to the sea is meeting a storm surge coming inland. In Galveston the sea surge was about 3’ but the actual water surge was about 9’ . .

A low-pressure trough system has been forming north of Harvey and could begin to pull it northward by the end of the week.

[www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/aug/28/ex-hurricane-harvey-houston-flooded-as-catastrophe-unfolds-in-texas-latest-updates] 1740 BST


Message 5b7ddbde00A-10102-17+1a.htm, number 128099, was posted on Tue Aug 29 at 00:16:55
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10099-776+1d.htm

Re: I wrote sloppily

Kate Bunting


On Sat Aug 26, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>I was thinking that everyone had the same experience in school that I did, so I encapsulated briefly and sloppily, expecting everyone to know what I meant.  Sorry, my bad.  Here's the same thing written out in longhand:

>When I was in high school, say in the late '60s, I was taught that pollution in London had gotten so bad that soot and other particulates had darkened the tree trunks, and that moths with light-colored wings were more visible to their predators.  But after a while, moths with darker wings started showing up, more difficult to see.  It's been a lot of years but as I recall this was explained to me, or at least I understood it at the time, as a minor example of evolution in action: The light-winged moths were dying off, but as a species evolved darker wings to survive.  At the time I accepted it.

>I later heard the pollution had been somewhat cleared up, the tree trunks began to show lighter in color, and the same process of evolution worked in reverse, that is, moths began to have light wings again.

>Later still, when I was in my 20s or 30s I suppose, I read that this is not to be considered an example of a species of moth evolving to survive changing circumstances; there were simply two species or perhaps subspecies of moth.  As the tree trunks darkened, the [sub]species with lighter wings became rarer and the [sub]species with darker wings began to do better.  The reverse happened as the pollution was cleared up.  I accepted this explanation as more likely than evolution by mutation.

>For akatow: I don't recall anyone telling me it had happened a century before.  (If 150 years ago now, then about 100 years ago when I was in high school.  Boy, time flies.)  I always thought of it as reasonably current, say during the '40s and '50s.  Placing it toward the end of the Industrial Revolution makes more sense.

>For YA: As I said, I wrote sloppily.  The above may have made it clear, but when I said the moth species didn't adapt, I meant that a species didn't change their genes to start producing darker wings, but that one species of moth started to do better than the other under the changing circumstances.

>Now that I'm required to think about this whole thing, I realize that I don't really know what was happening.  Were the observers at the time mistaking the light- and dark-winged moths for members of the same species?  Were they the same species?  depression at not being able to affect color change by force of will, I missed it, and it's moot to my point.  

They were sub-species of moths such as the peppered moth, Biston betularia. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_melanism

Kate (who hasn't posted on this forum for ages!)


Message 5eaf8b1300A-10102-454-30.htm, number 128100, was posted on Tue Aug 29 at 07:34:20
POB enthusiast also plays guitar......

MarkN


An interesting link if you also like Richard Thompson.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/all-the-poets-musicians-on-writing-richard-thompson/#!


Message 68cdafb5gpf-10102-772+1e.htm, number 128101, was posted on Tue Aug 29 at 12:52:05
in reply to 5eaf8b1300A-10102-454-30.htm

Re: POB enthusiast also plays guitar......

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Thanks Mark. Interesting interview. (your link doesn't work but I found it by other means). The interviewer didn't pick up on the O'Brian reference at all - that was disappointing. 'Dickens, Austen, O'Brian, Hughes.' Good company our man keeps.
Interesting also (to me) that The Band's 'Big Pink' had such an impact. It's hard to see how, exactly, but I'll take Thompson's word for it.

On Tue Aug 29, MarkN wrote
--------------------------
>An interesting link if you also like Richard Thompson.

>https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/all-the-poets-musicians-on-writing-richard-thompson/#!


Message 56003e26cb5-10103-769-07.htm, number 128102, was posted on Wed Aug 30 at 12:49:02
So, about sail training ships...

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com


Do the officers still shout orders from the quarterdeck as in the Olden Days? Are they still relayed through a couple of different people? Are bosun's pipes still used?

I would expect that they might make a concession to modern technology and use bullhorns/loudhailers instead of just hollering.


Message 50e5a913p13-10103-778+1d.htm, number 128103, was posted on Wed Aug 30 at 12:58:21
in reply to 68cdafb5gpf-10102-772+1e.htm

To make the link work . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Tue Aug 29, Joe McWilliams wrote
-----------------------------------
>>https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/all-the-poets-musicians-on-writing-richard-thompson/#!

. . just delete the ’s’ in ‘https’:

lareviewofbooks.org/article/all-the-poets-musicians-on-writing-richard-thompson/#!


Message 50e5a913p13-10103-790+19.htm, number 128104, was posted on Wed Aug 30 at 13:10:07
in reply to 5b7ddbde00A-10102-17+1a.htm

Working link

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Tue Aug 29, Kate Bunting wrote
---------------------------------
>On Sat Aug 26, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>I was thinking that everyone had the same experience in school that I did, so I encapsulated briefly and sloppily, expecting everyone to know what I meant.  Sorry, my bad.  Here's the same thing written out in longhand:

>>When I was in high school, say in the late '60s, I was taught that pollution in London had gotten so bad that soot and other particulates had darkened the tree trunks, and that moths with light-colored wings were more visible to their predators.  But after a while, moths with darker wings started showing up, more difficult to see.  It's been a lot of years but as I recall this was explained to me, or at least I understood it at the time, as a minor example of evolution in action: The light-winged moths were dying off, but as a species evolved darker wings to survive.  At the time I accepted it.

>>I later heard the pollution had been somewhat cleared up, the tree trunks began to show lighter in color, and the same process of evolution worked in reverse, that is, moths began to have light wings again.

>>Later still, when I was in my 20s or 30s I suppose, I read that this is not to be considered an example of a species of moth evolving to survive changing circumstances; there were simply two species or perhaps subspecies of moth.  As the tree trunks darkened, the [sub]species with lighter wings became rarer and the [sub]species with darker wings began to do better.  The reverse happened as the pollution was cleared up.  I accepted this explanation as more likely than evolution by mutation.

>>For akatow: I don't recall anyone telling me it had happened a century before.  (If 150 years ago now, then about 100 years ago when I was in high school.  Boy, time flies.)  I always thought of it as reasonably current, say during the '40s and '50s.  Placing it toward the end of the Industrial Revolution makes more sense.

>>For YA: As I said, I wrote sloppily.  The above may have made it clear, but when I said the moth species didn't adapt, I meant that a species didn't change their genes to start producing darker wings, but that one species of moth started to do better than the other under the changing circumstances.

>>Now that I'm required to think about this whole thing, I realize that I don't really know what was happening.  Were the observers at the time mistaking the light- and dark-winged moths for members of the same species?  Were they the same species?  depression at not being able to affect color change by force of will, I missed it, and it's moot to my point.  

>They were sub-species of moths such as the peppered moth, Biston betularia. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_melanism

>Kate (who hasn't posted on this forum for ages!)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_melanism

Welcome back! The wiki page you link to doesn’t mention subspecies; instead I found:

. . A taxonomist decides whether to recognize a subspecies or not. A common way to decide is that organisms belonging to different subspecies of the same species are capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring, but they do not usually interbreed in nature due to geographic isolation, sexual selection, or other factors. The differences between subspecies are usually less distinct than the differences between species . .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies

which doesn’t mention the moths. So they may or may not be named as sub-species.


Message 50e5a913p13-10103-849+19.htm, number 128105, was posted on Wed Aug 30 at 14:08:50
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10103-790+19.htm

Peppered moths on wikipedia

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Wed Aug 30, Chrístõ wrote
——————————————
>' . . A taxonomist decides whether to recognize a subspecies or not. A common way to decide is that organisms belonging to different subspecies of the same species are capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring, but they do not usually interbreed in nature due to geographic isolation, sexual selection, or other factors. The differences between subspecies are usually less distinct than the differences between species . . '

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies
…………………………..
The wikipage en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth has more: the different moth colours are called ‘forms’ and distinguished from sub-species by ‘f.’, e.g. Biston betularia f. carbonaria

‘ . . individuals of each morph interbreed and produce fertile offspring with individuals of all other morphs; hence there is only one peppered moth species.

By contrast, different subspecies of the same species can theoretically interbreed with one another and will produce fully fertile and healthy offspring but in practice do not, as they live in different regions or reproduce in different seasons. Full-fledged species are either unable to produce fertile and healthy offspring, or do not recognize each other's courtship signals, or both . .

European breeding experiments have shown that in Biston betularia betularia, the allele for melanism producing morpha carbonaria is controlled by a single locus. The melanic allele is dominant to the non-melanic allele . . ‘

These pages are not linked and were evidently created independently.


Message 4747f4808HW-10104-918-30.htm, number 128106, was posted on Thu Aug 31 at 15:18:37
No title!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Years ago, when I was reading a lot of spy novels...  Ok, decades ago.  Decades ago I tried John le Carré and for some reason couldn't get into him.  I don't know why; there were other authors I liked very much: Frederick Forsyth, Alistair MacLean (please don't sneer), half a dozen others.  So every so often I think I should give le Carré another chance, now that I'm older.

But in the below article I read:

Early in his writing, le Carré introduced the subversive hypothesis that the spies of East and West were two sides of the same tarnished coin, each as bad as the other. It was a stunning idea, espionage painted not in black and white but in shades of gray. With the fall of the Berlin Wall, the author lost the scaffolding for his fiction. His later books are angrier, more polemical, their worldview darker, reflecting the chaotic morality of the post-Soviet era and often presenting the United States — with its exceptionalism, its flouting of international norms, as he sees it — as the villain in the post-Cold War era.

Hm, maybe I don't need to give him a retry after all.  Helen McInnes contradicted the notion, fashionable back then, than the Soviets and the West were morally equivalent, arguing vociferously at times that the attempt to enslave other countries is not morally equivalent to resisting that attempt.  Her writing wasn't quite up to what I'm told of le Carré's standards—though it's good enough to enjoy (try Horizon for example)—but I believe her outlook is closer to the truth than what's attributed to le Carré here.



You should consider starting a new thread

On Sat Aug 26, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/books/review/john-le-carre-b


Message 4747f4808HW-10104-918+1e.htm, number 128106, was edited on Thu Aug 31 at 15:19:40
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10104-918-30.htm

Peter Guillam, continued

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Years ago, when I was reading a lot of spy novels...  Ok, decades ago.  Decades ago I tried John le Carré and for some reason couldn't get into him.  I don't know why; there were other authors I liked very much: Frederick Forsyth, Alistair MacLean (please don't sneer), half a dozen others.  So every so often I think I should give le Carré another chance, now that I'm older.

But in the below article I read:

Early in his writing, le Carré introduced the subversive hypothesis that the spies of East and West were two sides of the same tarnished coin, each as bad as the other. It was a stunning idea, espionage painted not in black and white but in shades of gray. With the fall of the Berlin Wall, the author lost the scaffolding for his fiction. His later books are angrier, more polemical, their worldview darker, reflecting the chaotic morality of the post-Soviet era and often presenting the United States — with its exceptionalism, its flouting of international norms, as he sees it — as the villain in the post-Cold War era.

Hm, maybe I don't need to give him a retry after all.  Helen McInnes contradicted the notion, fashionable back then, than the Soviets and the West were morally equivalent, arguing vociferously at times that the attempt to enslave other countries is not morally equivalent to resisting that attempt.  Her writing wasn't quite up to what I'm told of le Carré's standards—though it's good enough to enjoy (try Horizon for example)—but I believe her outlook is closer to the truth than what's attributed to le Carré here.



You should consider starting a new thread

On Sat Aug 26, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/books/review/john-le-carre-b

[ This message was edited on Thu Aug 31 by the author ]


Message 6c1413d300A-10104-1022+06.htm, number 128107, was posted on Thu Aug 31 at 17:02:19
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10103-769-07.htm

Re: So, about sail training ships...

Don Seltzer


On Wed Aug 30, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>Do the officers still shout orders from the quarterdeck as in the Olden Days? Are they still relayed through a couple of different people? Are bosun's pipes still used?

>I would expect that they might make a concession to modern technology and use bullhorns/loudhailers instead of just hollering.

Jack and his officers regularly used speaking trumpets, made of brass I suspect.

Of the tall ships that I have been aboard, all but one had officers shouting orders from the quarterdeck, occasionally repeated by someone midships.  On the Constitution, a PA system was sometimes used.


Message ad2078cfhi9-10106-1299-07.htm, number 128108, was posted on Sat Sep 2 at 21:38:57
Reminder for Toronto Master and Commander weekend

Adam Quinan
hms.bee@gmail.com


A Weekend in Nelson's Navy

September 22-24

At Historic Montgomery's Inn, National Historic Site Fort York, the elegant Georgian-era Campbell House Museum and aboard tall ship Playfair

This year's immersive 1812 naval event begins three weeks from today, and meals must be arranged two weeks from today (September 15). It's shaping up to be the best Master and Commander yet, with new speakers, new merchants and workshops along with favourite elements of past years. Students, seniors, veterans, re-enactors, members of JASNA and historical societies: you're in luck (have a look at the registration form).

The year is 1800. Standing on the deck of a British warship, you hear the wind snapping her sails and the creak of her wooden hull. Then -- a strange ship is sighted on the horizon, and you're off in hot pursuit!

This event offers a unique immersive experience: you will spend the weekend in the world of the Royal Navy of 200 years ago.
You will learn about every detail of life both aboard ship and on shore, from writing with quill pens to eating the foods sailors knew, learning the dances they loved, tying knots or trying out a few cutlass moves!
Sea chanties, harbour cruise aboard a tall ship, five historical meals by firelight, dancing, demonstrations, lessons on the boatswain's pipes, antique navigational instruments, merchants, and much, much more -- full details, including the schedule, meal menus and registration form, can be found at www.JaneAustenDancing.ca . You can do pay-as-you-go or register for the full weekend. Pre-registration encouraged, and meals must be booked by Friday, September 15.(416) 578-1031.

Registration forms, detailed schedule and menus can all be found on the website's M and C page.


Message 50e5a913p13-10107-854+54.htm, number 128109, was posted on Sun Sep 3 at 14:13:39
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10101-811-90.htm

Irma is comong . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . but to whom?

5 Charts Showing Where Hurricane Irma Might Land: www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-02/here-are-5-charts-showing-where-hurricane-irma-might-land


Message 50e5a913p13-10107-855+54.htm, number 128109, was edited on Sun Sep 3 at 14:14:35
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10107-854+54.htm

Irma is coming . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . but to whom?

5 Charts Showing Where Hurricane Irma Might Land: www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-02/here-are-5-charts-showing-where-hurricane-irma-might-land

[ This message was edited on Sun Sep 3 by the author ]


Message aeda114c00A-10110-743-07.htm, number 128110, was posted on Wed Sep 6 at 12:22:40
"How Europeans Imagined Exotic Animals Centuries Ago, Based on Hearsay"

Hoyden


Why do most of them seem to be glum and disappointed?

io9.gizmodo.com/how-europeans-imagined-exotic-animals-centuries-ago-ba-1545362205


Message 6cadb2a6gpf-10110-1320+12.htm, number 128111, was posted on Wed Sep 6 at 21:59:53
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10098-663-30.htm

Re: Continuing the sea-snake conversation

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Hey, hey, no sooner do the peppered moths show up on this forum (I had never heard of 'em), than I encounter them in a book recommended (or at least mentioned) by our own Max. Amor Towles has his 'A Gentleman in Moscow' using those moths to make a point.


On Fri Aug 25, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>The article says in part "It’s sort of like the moths in Europe that swapped speckled for black wings during the Industrial Revolution, evading hungry birds by blending in with coal dust."  I read that without a qualm the first time through, forgetting until just now that the famous moths didn't adapt.  We were told at the time that they did, but I gather the later conclusion is that light-winged moths started to die off, and dark-winged moths correspondingly prospered.

>I have a hard time taking the Flat-Earth society seriously, by the way.  I got the impression somewhere that it's sort of an insider joke, that they don't really believe the earth is flat.  I shouldn't underestimate the stupidity potential—maybe a few do—but not the membership as a whole, surely.

>On Sat Aug 19, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>First we have the swelling ranks of the 'Flat Earth Society', now we have a 'Science' writer for the NYT talking about moths, pigeons and sea snakes 'adapting' (quickly, no less) to pollution!!!!

>>LaMarck would be proud.

>>On Sat Aug 19, Hoyden wrote
>>---------------------------
>>>www.nytimes


Message 6cadb2a6gpf-10110-1322+03.htm, number 128112, was posted on Wed Sep 6 at 22:02:21
in reply to 46d30bbe00A-10085-42+1c.htm

Re^3: Gentleman in Moscow

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Max, having now read  most of A Gentleman in Moscow, I can't credit  your story at all. It's almost impossible to believe, given, as you say, the constant references to Bolsheviks, not to mention frequent mention of the years, starting I believe in 1922.

On Sat Aug 12, Max wrote
------------------------
>I haven't read  'Lincoln in the Bardo'. No plan not to. Just too much going on to read as much as I like.
>My astonishment at the dinner party is that GIM as about nothing if it isn't about the decade after decade changes in society post 1922. Words like "Bolsheviks" are on every page. There are cars and radios.
>I'm just astonished that educated people can miss by a full century.
>
>
>
>
>n Fri Aug 11, Joe McWilliams wrote
>-----------------------------------
>>Thanks for the heads-up, Max. I will be sure now not to make that mistake if I ever get my hands on A Gentleman in Moscow, which - due to my reliance on regional library system inventory - may not be for a long time. I checked last night and found every copy of Towle in the system is out and with a waiting list. I had no idea. Same for George Saunders, I notice. Has anyone here read 'Lincoln in the Bardo?'

>>On Thu Aug 10, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>Well, this was depressing. I went to a dinner party of seemingly bright, educated people. Not young.
>>>They were reading A Gentleman in Moscow with great enjoyment.
>>>So far, so good.
>>>While discussing the book however it became apparent that they thought it took place during, or right after, the Napoleonic era.

>>>I didn't know where to start.


Message 4747f4808HW-10111-674+06.htm, number 128113, was posted on Thu Sep 7 at 11:14:07
in reply to aeda114c00A-10110-743-07.htm

Fascinating!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I remember in high school we had an exercise: One person would look at a simple drawing of various geometrical shapes, and would attempt to describe it orally in such a way that another student could reproduce the drawing.  No group succeeded in coming close, and it was borne in on me that a picture really is worth much more than a thousand words.  

(I've since formed the notion that just as a civilized human should be able to write clearly, it would be about equally useful to be able to sketch accurately.  I haven't yet become civilized by that measure.)

That was just a handful of triangles, circles and other polyhedrons tossed into a drawing together, not animals.  I can see the attempts made here, and am fascinated by the various ways in which the illustrators were "close yet so very far".  Thanks, Hoyden, for this look.

On Wed Sep 6, Hoyden wrote
--------------------------
>Why do most of them seem to be glum and disappointed?

>io9.gizmodo.com/how-europeans-imagined-exotic-animals-centuries-ago-ba-1545362205


Message 50e5a913p13-10112-436+4f.htm, number 128114, was posted on Fri Sep 8 at 07:16:29
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10101-811-90.htm

Irma, Jose and Katie . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. .  make an attractive display on the EarthWindMap: https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-67.32,21.47,1391/loc=-73.886,22.027

Click on the image to move inwards. The display gives the estimated wind speed at the cursor.

‘A visualization of global weather conditions forecast by supercomputers, updated every three hours  . . atmospheric pressure corresponds roughly to altitude . .several pressure layers are meteorologically interesting . . they show data assuming the earth is completely smooth.’

Note: 1 hectopascal (hPa) = 1 millibar (mb) . .1000 hPa ~100 m, near sea level conditions.


Message 50e5a913p13-10112-440+4f.htm, number 128114, was edited on Fri Sep 8 at 07:19:52
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10112-436+4f.htm

Irma, Jose and Katie . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. .  make an attractive display on the EarthWindMap: tinyurl.com/ychyhdjx

Click on the image to move inwards. The display gives the estimated wind speed at the cursor.

‘A visualization of global weather conditions forecast by supercomputers, updated every three hours  . . atmospheric pressure corresponds roughly to altitude . .several pressure layers are meteorologically interesting . . they show data assuming the earth is completely smooth.’

Note: 1 hectopascal (hPa) = 1 millibar (mb) . .1000 hPa ~100 m, near sea level conditions.

[ This message was edited on Fri Sep 8 by the author ]


Message 44654cc700A-10112-589+4f.htm, number 128115, was posted on Fri Sep 8 at 09:49:08
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10112-440+4f.htm

Re: Irma, Jose and Katie . .

A-Polly


Oh wow, it's quite lovely!  I've been using the Ventusky site, which is nice because you can click to choose weather features such as wind speed, precipitation, temperature, and so on.  Viewing the wind speed and wave height maps at the world scale puts me in awe of sailors in any era venturing into the Roaring Forties!
www.ventusky.com/

However, the Ventusky map is flat, and I really like the way the EarthWindMap is shown on a globe.  Both sites are mesmerizing!

Thanks for the link, Chrístõ.  I'm in Florida (northern part), and we're all watching the approaching hurricane.



On Fri Sep 8, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>. .  make an attractive display on the EarthWindMap: tinyurl.com/ychyhdjx

>Click on the image to move inwards. The display gives the estimated wind speed at the cursor.

>‘A visualization of global weather conditions forecast by supercomputers, updated every three hours  . . atmospheric pressure corresponds roughly to altitude . .several pressure layers are meteorologically interesting . . they show data assuming the earth is completely smooth.’

>Note: 1 hectopascal (hPa) = 1 millibar (mb) . .1000 hPa ~100 m, near sea level conditions.

>


Message 50e5a913p13-10112-781+4f.htm, number 128116, was posted on Fri Sep 8 at 13:00:41
in reply to 44654cc700A-10112-589+4f.htm

Earth = control panel

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Sep 8, A-Polly wrote
---------------------------
>Thanks for the link, Chrístõ.  I'm in Florida (northern part), and we're all watching the approaching hurricane.

Happy to be of service, ma’am . . Good luck with yr close encounter with Irma. Don’t let the wind blow up yr petticoats - you know how a flash of ankle inflames us poor mariners!

You can access a control panel to change the display via ’earth’ which opens and closes it. It is not as obvious as it needs to be.


Message aeda807b00A-10112-981-07.htm, number 128117, was posted on Fri Sep 8 at 16:21:11
Catalonia in the news - Oct 1

Hoyden


mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/world/europe/spain-catalonia-independence.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage

Message 6ca8e32e8YV-10112-1234+01.htm, number 128118, was posted on Fri Sep 8 at 20:34:25
in reply to ad2078cfhi9-10106-1299-07.htm

Re: Reminder for Toronto Master and Commander weekend

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com






On Sat Sep 2, Adam Quinan wrote
-------------------------------
>A Weekend in Nelson's Navy

>September 22-24

>At Historic Montgomery's Inn, National Historic Site Fort York, the elegant Georgian-era Campbell House Museum and aboard tall ship Playfair

>This year's immersive 1812 naval event begins three weeks from today, and meals must be arranged two weeks from today (September 15). It's shaping up to be the best Master and Commander yet, with new speakers, new merchants and workshops along with favourite elements of past years. Students, seniors, veterans, re-enactors, members of JASNA and historical societies: you're in luck (have a look at the registration form).

>The year is 1800. Standing on the deck of a British warship, you hear the wind snapping her sails and the creak of her wooden hull. Then -- a strange ship is sighted on the horizon, and you're off in hot pursuit!

>This event offers a unique immersive experience: you will spend the weekend in the world of the Royal Navy of 200 years ago.
>You will learn about every detail of life both aboard ship and on shore, from writing with quill pens to eating the foods sailors knew, learning the dances they loved, tying knots or trying out a few cutlass moves!
>Sea chanties, harbour cruise aboard a tall ship, five historical meals by firelight, dancing, demonstrations, lessons on the boatswain's pipes, antique navigational instruments, merchants, and much, much more -- full details, including the schedule, meal menus and registration form, can be found at www.JaneAustenDancing.ca . You can do pay-as-you-go or register for the full weekend. Pre-registration encouraged, and meals must be booked by Friday, September 15.(416) 578-1031.

>Registration forms, detailed schedule and menus can all be found on the website's M and C page.
>


Message 3e2f727600A-10113-560-07.htm, number 128119, was posted on Sat Sep 9 at 09:19:49
"Bats fail to detect smooth, vertical surfaces when they are in a rush"

Hoyden


The danger of walls, buildings, etc.

phys.org/news/2017-09-smooth-vertical-surfaces.html


Message 50e5a913p13-10113-811+4e.htm, number 128120, was posted on Sat Sep 9 at 13:30:36
in reply to 44654cc700A-10112-589+4f.htm

What a hurricane sounds like

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Sep 8, A-Polly wrote
---------------------------
 I'm in Florida (northern part), and we're all watching the approaching hurricane.
……….

Live footage as Hurricane Irma destroys Maho Beach Cam in St Maarten 9/6/2017:
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=dA5qYrboTUE

Hat-tip: twistedsifter.com/videos/hurricane-irma-destroys-maho-beach-st-maarten/


Message 4747f4808HW-10104-918+1e.htm, number 128120, was edited on Tue Sep 12 at 10:43:12
Peter Guillam, continued

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Years ago, when I was reading a lot of spy novels...  Ok, decades ago.  Decades ago I tried John le Carré and for some reason couldn't get into him.  I don't know why; there were other authors I liked very much: Frederick Forsyth, Alistair MacLean (please don't sneer), Robert Moss, half a dozen others.  So every so often I think I should give le Carré another chance, now that I'm older.

But in the below article I read:

Early in his writing, le Carré introduced the subversive hypothesis that the spies of East and West were two sides of the same tarnished coin, each as bad as the other. It was a stunning idea, espionage painted not in black and white but in shades of gray. With the fall of the Berlin Wall, the author lost the scaffolding for his fiction. His later books are angrier, more polemical, their worldview darker, reflecting the chaotic morality of the post-Soviet era and often presenting the United States — with its exceptionalism, its flouting of international norms, as he sees it — as the villain in the post-Cold War era.

Hm, maybe I don't need to give him a retry after all.  Helen McInnes contradicted the notion, fashionable back then, that the Soviets and the West were morally equivalent, arguing vociferously at times that the attempt to enslave other countries is not morally equivalent to resisting that attempt.  Her writing wasn't quite up to what is claimed for le Carré's standards—though it's good enough to enjoy (try Horizon for example)—but I believe her outlook is closer to the truth than what's attributed to le Carré here.



You should consider starting a new thread

On Sat Aug 26, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/books/review/john-le-carre-b

[ This message was edited on Tue Sep 12 by the author ]


Message ad2078cfhi9-10116-1056-30.htm, number 128121, was posted on Tue Sep 12 at 17:36:20
Video for upcoming Master & Commander weekend in Toronto

Adam Quinan
hms.bee@gmail.com


This is the last week for anyone wanting to attend to register for the meals.

This is a short promo video filmed partially aboard Playfair which will be taking a short cruise on Lake Ontario as part of the weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7myMWBBzPPA


Message 46d1c51000A-10119-765-30.htm, number 128122, was posted on Fri Sep 15 at 12:45:25
Ignorance

Max


Pretty much everyday I find that something I'm sure of is dead wrong.
Today I realized that out of proportion school maps gave me a screwed up idea of scale, size and distance in the world.

The U.S. and Europe are smaller than I thought. There is a lot more water especially in the southern hemisphere.
A real eye opener is flipping north and south. Putting south at the maps top.


Message 6242bb9f00A-10119-899+1e.htm, number 128123, was posted on Fri Sep 15 at 14:58:44
in reply to 46d1c51000A-10119-765-30.htm

Re: Ignorance

YA


It'll freak you out if you let it.
youtube.com/watch?v=vVX-PrBRtTY
Or just get a globe.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections
On Fri Sep 15, Max wrote
------------------------
>Pretty much everyday I find that something I'm sure of is dead wrong.
>Today I realized that out of proportion school maps gave me a screwed up idea of scale, size and distance in the world.

>The U.S. and Europe are smaller than I thought. There is a lot more water especially in the southern hemisphere.
>A real eye opener is flipping north and south. Putting south at the maps top.


Message 50e5a913p13-10120-435+1d.htm, number 128124, was posted on Sat Sep 16 at 07:14:56
in reply to 46d1c51000A-10119-765-30.htm

Have a look at an orthographic projection

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Sep 15, Max wrote
------------------------
>Pretty much everyday I find that something I'm sure of is dead wrong.
>Today I realized that out of proportion school maps gave me a screwed up idea of scale, size and distance in the world.

>The U.S. and Europe are smaller than I thought. There is a lot more water especially in the southern hemisphere.
>A real eye opener is flipping north and south. Putting south at the maps top.
…..
Here's the EarthWindMap set to an orthographic* projection:
http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-89.92,89.01,336/loc=105.000,-50.356
Click
Click 'earth' to open the control panel; click on the image to zoom in; don't know how to zoom out.

* '1. Of a projection used in maps, elevations, etc.: depicted as if seen from an infinite distance, so that the projecting rays are parallel.
1669   Philos. Trans. 1668 (Royal Soc.) 3 872   The Orthographick Projection, by Perpendiculars falling from the respective Points of the Circles of the Spheare, on the Projecting Plain . . ' (OED)


Message 50e5a913p13-10120-441+1d.htm, number 128125, was posted on Sat Sep 16 at 07:21:14
in reply to 46d1c51000A-10119-765-30.htm

Try the viw from space

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Sep 15, Max wrote
------------------------
>Pretty much everyday I find that something I'm sure of is dead wrong.
>Today I realized that out of proportion school maps gave me a screwed up idea of scale, size and distance in the world.

>The U.S. and Europe are smaller than I thought. There is a lot more water especially in the southern hemisphere.
>A real eye opener is flipping north and south. Putting south at the maps top.
………….
Here's the EarthWindMap set to an orthographic* projection.
tinyurl.com/y7pxu449
Click 'earth' to open the control panel; click on the image to rotate and zoom in; I don't know how to zoom out.

* '1. Of a projection used in maps, elevations, etc.: depicted as if seen from an infinite distance, so that the projecting rays are parallel.
1669   Philos. Trans. 1668 (Royal Soc.) 3 872   The Orthographick Projection, by Perpendiculars falling from the respective Points of the Circles of the Spheare, on the Projecting Plain . . ' (OED)


Message 50e5a913p13-10120-442+1d.htm, number 128125, was edited on Sat Sep 16 at 07:21:42
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10120-441+1d.htm

Try the view from space

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri Sep 15, Max wrote
------------------------
>Pretty much everyday I find that something I'm sure of is dead wrong.
>Today I realized that out of proportion school maps gave me a screwed up idea of scale, size and distance in the world.

>The U.S. and Europe are smaller than I thought. There is a lot more water especially in the southern hemisphere.
>A real eye opener is flipping north and south. Putting south at the maps top.
………….
Here's the EarthWindMap set to an orthographic* projection.
tinyurl.com/y7pxu449
Click 'earth' to open the control panel; click on the image to rotate and zoom in; I don't know how to zoom out.

* '1. Of a projection used in maps, elevations, etc.: depicted as if seen from an infinite distance, so that the projecting rays are parallel.
1669   Philos. Trans. 1668 (Royal Soc.) 3 872   The Orthographick Projection, by Perpendiculars falling from the respective Points of the Circles of the Spheare, on the Projecting Plain . . ' (OED)

[ This message was edited on Sat Sep 16 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10120-810-90.htm, number 128126, was posted on Sat Sep 16 at 13:29:34
“There’s not a minute to be lost”

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The Clipper Round the World Race illustrates this favourite maxim of Jack’s very well. The identical boats started together 27 days ago from Liverpool and and are passing Rio today en route for Buenos Aires 1000 nm ahead, the end of the first leg.
clipperroundtheworld.com/race/standings
Nine boats are bunched together within 180 nm. The leader Sanya Serenity is just 32 miles ahead of #2 Unicef - 2.5 hours - equivalent to gaining 5.5 minutes a day for 27 days.

All the crews - amateurs who signed up for the cruise of a lifetime - must be tolerably tired by now!


Message 578acb5a00A-10121-13-07.htm, number 128127, was posted on Sun Sep 17 at 00:13:15
What doth Hurricane Irma reveal? Canoe with square head nails.

Hoyden


www.nbcnews.com/storyline/hurricane-irma/after-irma-mystery-where-did-washed-ashore-canoe-florida-come-n802001

Message 46d1c51000A-10121-600+07.htm, number 128128, was posted on Sun Sep 17 at 10:00:04
in reply to 578acb5a00A-10121-13-07.htm

Re: What doth Hurricane Irma reveal? Canoe with square head nails.

Max


the canoe is over 50 years old, which makes it historic in age...

Ain't we all?


Message 6ca8e32e8YV-10121-922+1c.htm, number 128129, was posted on Sun Sep 17 at 15:21:47
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10120-442+1d.htm

Terrible maps

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


www.facebook.com/TerribleMaps/photos/a.1702342333343482.1073741828.1702341603343555/2032846193626426/?type=3

www.facebook.com/TerribleMaps/photos/a.1702342333343482.1073741828.1702341603343555/2000183060226073/?type=3


Message 48c466b500A-10121-1381+1c.htm, number 128130, was posted on Sun Sep 17 at 23:01:30
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10120-442+1d.htm

Re: Try the view from space

A-Polly


This one I found especially eye-opening:
www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/cartography




On Sat Sep 16, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>On Fri Sep 15, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>Pretty much everyday I find that something I'm sure of is dead wrong.
>>Today I realized that out of proportion school maps gave me a screwed up idea of scale, size and distance in the world.

>>The U.S. and Europe are smaller than I thought. There is a lot more water especially in the southern hemisphere.
>>A real eye opener is flipping north and south. Putting south at the maps top.
>………….
>Here's the EarthWindMap set to an orthographic* projection.
>tinyurl.com/y7pxu449
>Click 'earth' to open the control panel; click on the image to rotate and zoom in; I don't know how to zoom out.

>* '1. Of a projection used in maps, elevations, etc.: depicted as if seen from an infinite distance, so that the projecting rays are parallel.
>1669   Philos. Trans. 1668 (Royal Soc.) 3 872   The Orthographick Projection, by Perpendiculars falling from the respective Points of the Circles of the Spheare, on the Projecting Plain . . ' (OED)


Message 47e54da900A-10122-425-07.htm, number 128131, was posted on Mon Sep 18 at 07:05:10
Triple Lunar occultations-Jack would be up all night in his little observatory.

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/science/occultation-moon-mars-venus-mercury.html?emc=edit_nn_20170918&nl=morning-briefing&nl

Message 465fd3f38YV-10122-1277-90.htm, number 128132, was posted on Mon Sep 18 at 21:17:25
And the winners are.....

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


The 2017 Ig Nobel Prize Winners


The 2017 Ig Nobel Prizes were awarded on Thursday night, September 14, 2017 at the 27th First Annual Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony, at Harvard's Sanders Theatre. The ceremony was webcast .

PHYSICS PRIZE [FRANCE, SINGAPORE, USA] — Marc-Antoine Fardin, for using fluid dynamics to probe the question "Can a Cat Be Both a Solid and a Liquid?"

REFERENCE: "On the Rheology of Cats," Marc-Antoine Fardin, Rheology Bulletin, vol. 83, 2, July 2014, pp. 16-17 and 30.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: Marc-Antoine Fardin


PEACE PRIZE [SWITZERLAND, CANADA, THE NETHERLANDS, USA] — Milo Puhan, Alex Suarez, Christian Lo Cascio, Alfred Zahn, Markus Heitz, and Otto Braendli, for demonstrating that regular playing of a didgeridoo is an effective treatment for obstructive sleep apnoea and snoring.

REFERENCE: "Didgeridoo Playing as Alternative Treatment for Obstructive Sleep Apnoea Syndrome: Randomised Controlled Trial," Milo A. Puhan, Alex Suarez, Christian Lo Cascio, Alfred Zahn, Markus Heitz and Otto Braendli, BMJ, vol. 332 December 2006.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: Milo Puhan, Christian Lo Cascio, Markus Heitz, Alex Suarez. NOTE: Alex Suarez was the first patient, and was the inspiration for the study.


ECONOMICS PRIZE [AUSTRALIA, USA] — Matthew Rockloff and Nancy Greer, for their experiments to see how contact with a live crocodile affects a person's willingness to gamble.

REFERENCE: "Never Smile at a Crocodile: Betting on Electronic Gaming Machines is Intensified by Reptile-Induced Arousal," Matthew J. Rockloff and Nancy Greer, Journal of Gambling Studies, vol. 26, no. 4, December 2010, pp. 571-81.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: Matthew Rockloff and Nancy Greer


ANATOMY PRIZE [UK] — James Heathcote, for his medical research study "Why Do Old Men Have Big Ears?"

REFERENCE: "Why Do Old Men Have Big Ears?" James A. Heathcote, British Medical Journal, vol. 311, 1995, p. 1668.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: James Heathcote


BIOLOGY PRIZE [JAPAN, BRAZIL, SWITZERLAND] — Kazunori Yoshizawa, Rodrigo Ferreira, Yoshitaka Kamimura, and Charles Lienhard, for their discovery of a female penis, and a male vagina, in a cave insect.

REFERENCE: "Female Penis, Male Vagina and Their Correlated Evolution in a Cave Insect," Kazunori Yoshizawa, Rodrigo L. Ferreira, Yoshitaka Kamimura, Charles Lienhard, Current Biology, vol. 24, no. 9, 2014, pp. 1006-1010.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: They delivered a short video acceptance speech, filmed in a cave.


FLUID DYNAMICS PRIZE [SOUTH KOREA, USA] — Jiwon Han, for studying the dynamics of liquid-sloshing, to learn what happens when a person walks backwards while carrying a cup of coffee. REFERENCE: "A Study on the Coffee Spilling Phenomena in the Low Impulse Regime," Jiwon Han, Achievements in the Life Sciences, vol. 10, no. 1, 2016, pp. 87-101.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: Jiwon ("Jesse") Han

NOTE: Jiwon Han was a high school student when he wrote the paper, at Korean Minjok Leadership Academy, Gangwon-do, Republic of Korea.


NUTRITION PRIZE [BRAZIL, CANADA, SPAIN] — Fernanda Ito, Enrico Bernard, and Rodrigo Torres, for the first scientific report of human blood in the diet of the hairy-legged vampire bat

REFERENCE: "What is for Dinner? First Report of Human Blood in the Diet of the Hairy-Legged Vampire Bat Diphylla ecaudata," Fernanda Ito, Enrico Bernard, and Rodrigo A. Torres, Acta Chiropterologica, vol. 18, no. 2, December 2016, pp. 509-515.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: The winners delivered their acceptance speech via recorded video.


MEDICINE PRIZE [FRANCE, UK] — Jean-Pierre Royet, David Meunier, Nicolas Torquet, Anne-Marie Mouly and Tao Jiang, for using advanced brain-scanning technology to measure the extent to which some people are disgusted by cheese.

REFERENCE: "The Neural Bases of Disgust for Cheese: An fMRI Study," Jean-Pierre Royet, David Meunier, Nicolas Torquet, Anne-Marie Mouly and Tao Jiang, Frontiers in Human Neuroscience, vol. 10, October 2016, article 511.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: The winners delivered their acceptance speech via recorded video.


COGNITION PRIZE [ITALY, SPAIN, UK] — Matteo Martini, Ilaria Bufalari, Maria Antonietta Stazi, and Salvatore Maria Aglioti, for demonstrating that many identical twins cannot tell themselves apart visually.

REFERENCE: "Is That Me or My Twin? Lack of Self-Face Recognition Advantage in Identical Twins," Matteo Martini, Ilaria Bufalari, Maria Antonietta Stazi, Salvatore Maria Aglioti, PLoS ONE, vol. 10, no. 4, 2015: e0120900.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: Matteo Martini, Ilaria Bufalari


OBSTETRICS PRIZE — [SPAIN] — Marisa López-Teijón, Álex García-Faura, Alberto Prats-Galino, and Luis Pallarés Aniorte, for showing that a developing human fetus responds more strongly to music that is played electromechanically inside the mother's vagina than to music that is played electromechanically on the mother's belly.

REFERENCE: "Fetal Facial Expression in Response to Intravaginal Music Emission," Marisa López-Teijón, Álex García-Faura, and Alberto Prats-Galino, Ultrasound, November 2015, vol. 23, no. 4, pp. 216–223.

REFERENCE: "Fetal Acoustic Stimulation Device," patent ES2546919B1, granted September 29, 2015 to Luis y Pallarés Aniorte and Maria Luisa López-Teijón Pérez.

WHO ATTENDED THE CEREMONY: Marisa López-Teijón, Álex García-Faura, Alberto Prats-Galino, and Luis Pallarés Aniorte

NOTE: They also offer a product based on this research The product is named "Babypod".


Message 465fd3f38YV-10123-28-90.htm, number 128133, was posted on Tue Sep 19 at 00:27:37
So.....a pirate walks into

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com



a doctor's office to have the spots on his arm looked at.

"They're benign", the doctor said.

"No, Doc, there be eleven - I counted them before I came in..."

Happy TLAP Day!


Message 47e54da900A-10123-374-07.htm, number 128134, was posted on Tue Sep 19 at 06:14:34
The Trash Isles, Northern Pacific

Hoyden


That'll cause a stir at Customs....

qz.com/1080155/could-a-pile-of-trash-become-an-official-nation/?mc_cid=7a58ce7859&mc_eid=7bdf330d5e


Message 46d3012900A-10124-300-30.htm, number 128135, was posted on Wed Sep 20 at 05:00:24
Submarine discovered

Max


www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/german-world-war-i-submarine-discovered-intact-with-23-bodies-inside/ar-AAse3Hb?li=BBmkt5R

Message 4747f4808HW-10124-616-30.htm, number 128136, was posted on Wed Sep 20 at 10:16:41
"Clipper 'Round the World"

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


My mom just sent me this, but she sent the HTML doc rather than the link.  But I think I can find—yes, here it is.  It's from a site talking about a circumnavigation race for "non-professional sailors" (see http://clipperroundtheworld.com/race/race-and-route.  What she sent me is from this blog entry by the British team:
I will post the last in the series of the simulations you can try at home to prepare you for ocean yacht racing, then tomorrow turn you towards what I hope will be our final or penultimate blog, expressing thanks to the wonderful crew I have had the pleasure of sharing this adventure with so far. Today I will open your eyes up to the very simple task of changing a headsail.

You will need:

   Three or four friends
   An automatic carwash
   A poorly trained husky team
   An industrial-grade roller blind
   A large roll of sodden carpet
   A pulley system

Purchase three or four cycles at your local automatic car wash. We recommend Programme 5 – this will leave your teeth and nails with a waxy shine and will help with your personal hygiene issues. Before starting the programmes, make preparations by installing the roller blind just out of comfortable reach of where you intend to stand. Ensure the blind spring is unfeasibly tight so that it will snatch from your hand and recoil more times than anyone could find amusing. Install the pulley system above the roller blind. Once you are ready, let loose the dogs! Using bungee cord, tie at least two huskies to yourself and to each of your friends. Start the programme and enter the car wash. Amid the maelstrom, you should aim to stand in a loose line, reaching and grabbing for the roller blind. The dogs will pull you away in random directions and the soap will make your hands slip, but you must pull the blind down. Once fully reeled in, work to secure it before reaching for the roll of carpet. If you can lift it, the roll you chose was too small. Attach one end to the pulley and, during the drying cycle, hoist to its full height. Secure the carpet before retiring to the forecourt shop for a Costa Express and double chocolate muffin. Repeat at regular intervals throughout the day, and aim to get 95% dry before each repetition.

Wish us luck with the wind so close to the end. Where ever we come now, that first beer is going to taste really good!!

What's American for "roller blind"?

Message 50e5a913p13-10124-837+1e.htm, number 128137, was posted on Wed Sep 20 at 13:56:53
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10124-616-30.htm

Re: "Clipper 'Round the World"

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Wed Sep 20, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>My mom just sent me this, but she sent the HTML doc rather than the link.  But I think I can find—yes, here it is.  It's from a site talking about a circumnavigation race for "non-professional sailors" (see http://clipperroundtheworld.com/race/race-and-route.  
………..
This is the race I posted about on the 16th: www.wwnorton.com/cgi-bin/ceilidh.exe/pob/forum/?C350e5a913p13-10120-810-90.htm

Four days later, just 230 miles to go, the race has a clear winner and a clear loser and 8 boats bunched together vying for 2nd place: clipperroundtheworld.com/race/standings


Message 50e5a913p13-10125-412-90.htm, number 128138, was posted on Thu Sep 21 at 06:52:13
‘What was the name of Sir Francis Drake's flagship in the battle against the Spanish Armada in 1588?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today's question from Oxford Reference; visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1982 to find the answer.

Clue: “ . . Sink me the ship, Master Gunner . . “


Message 4747f4808HW-10125-1098-30.htm, number 128139, was posted on Thu Sep 21 at 18:19:31
Rereading Alistair MacLean

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I was a little short of something to get out of the library Saturday, and ran across Night without End by Alistair MacLean.  It was the very first Alistair MacLean I ever read; my dad brought it home from a trip once, and although I loved it and for a while read all the MacLeans I could get, he bought it only because he was bored in an airport and didn't especially care for it.  But <shrug> what can I expect?  My father liked mysteries.

But now I'm looking at MacLean's photo on the back of the book, and it's a little strange because I'm pretty sure it's the same photo I looked at decades ago when I first started but...I could swear he was much older back then.

Here's the photo:


Message 4747f4808HW-10125-1098+1e.htm, number 128139, was edited on Thu Sep 21 at 18:21:00
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10125-1098-30.htm

Rereading Alistair MacLean

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I was a little short of something to get out of the library Saturday, and ran across Night without End by Alistair MacLean.  It was the very first Alistair MacLean I ever read; my dad brought it home from a trip once, and although I loved it and for a while read all the MacLeans I could get, he bought it only because he was bored in an airport and didn't especially care for it.  But <shrug> what can I expect?  My father liked mysteries.

But now I'm looking at MacLean's photo on the back of the book, and it's a little strange because I'm pretty sure it's the same photo I looked at decades ago when I first started but...I could swear he was much older back then.  This kid's barely an adult.

Here's the photo:

[ This message was edited on Thu Sep 21 by the author ]


Message 4747f4808HW-10125-1106+5a.htm, number 128140, was posted on Thu Sep 21 at 18:26:23
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10125-412-90.htm

Must have been heavily damaged

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Says here:
....a 34-gun ship of 441 tons, launched at Deptford in 1577....fought her last fight, which lasted for fifteen hours, against overwhelming odds. When there was no further hope of fighting her, Grenville ordered her to be sunk. However, his surviving officers would not agree to this and terms of surrender were made with the Spaniards on the understanding that the lives and liberties of the ship's company should be spared....Five days after the battle the [vessel] foundered in a storm, taking with her 200 Spaniards who had been put on board.

Two hundred men as a prize crew for a 34-gun ship?  Seems to me she must have been badly hurt to need that many; was she close to sinking, then?

On Thu Sep 21, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . is today's question from Oxford Reference; visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1982 to find the answer.

>Clue: “ . . Sink me the ship, Master Gunner . . “


Message 4747f4808HW-10125-1119+05.htm, number 128141, was posted on Thu Sep 21 at 18:38:49
in reply to 47e54da900A-10123-374-07.htm

"Cumulatively"?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


The article finishes "....there’s an area cumulatively the size of France made up entirely of waste plastic in the sea".  Sure, that's impressive, but I've come to the conclusion that any time someone has to say "essentially" or "in effect" or any of several other adverbs, it means "not really".

So what does "cumulatively" mean in this case?  How big is it really?  Is it the size that France would be if France had an inland sea the size of Romania?  If so, I'm much less impressed.

On Tue Sep 19, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>That'll cause a stir at Customs....

>qz.com/1080155/could-a-pile-of-trash-become-an-official-nation/?mc_cid=7a58ce7859&mc_eid=7bdf330d5e


Message 31bb881400A-10125-1119+5a.htm, number 128142, was posted on Thu Sep 21 at 18:39:37
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10125-412-90.htm

Re: ‘What was the name of Sir Francis Drake's flagship in the battle against the Spanish Armada in 1588?’ . .

wombat


On Thu Sep 21, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . is today's question from Oxford Reference; visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1982 to find the answer.

>Clue: “ . . Sink me the ship, Master Gunner . . “
>

da dumpity dum de dum not into the hands of Spain....

I have no idea. But wasn't that Don't Give up the Ship command given "At Flores in the Azores [where] Sir Richard Grenville lay"?

I have recently come across the French naval captain, Du Petit-Thouars. I met him in the memoir of a French exile in the United States*. She described him as "exceptionally witty and gay", especially at the expense of the snootier émigrés who showed contempt for the Americans but were unable to support themselves by farming and were reduced to eating robins and boiled tadpoles. But I digress. Here is Wikipedia on Du Petit-Thouars:

... commander of the Tonnant at the Battle of the Nile, where he died on August 2, 1798. During the battle, he forced HMS Majestic to break off combat, with 50 killed, including Captain Westcott, and 143 wounded. After having lost both legs and an arm, he continued to command from a bucket filled with wheat, until he died.

His last order was allegedly to nail the flag of the Tonnant to her mizzen-mast and never to surrender the ship. The Tonnant was eventually captured by the British.

* the fascinating recollections of Mme De La Tour du Pin "one of the great monuments of French history" (New Yorker).


Message 4747f4808HW-10126-634+57.htm, number 128143, was posted on Fri Sep 22 at 10:33:56
in reply to 465fd3f38YV-10123-28-90.htm

Ack! I missed it AGAIN!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm going to have to set a reminder on my phone somehow.

(" 'Phone'!", the old guy muses wonderingly.  "We call it a 'phone'.")

On Tue Sep 19, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>>a doctor's office to have the spots on his arm looked at.

>"They're benign", the doctor said.

>"No, Doc, there be eleven - I counted them before I came in..."

>Happy TLAP Day!


Message 50e5a913p13-10126-771-90.htm, number 128144, was posted on Fri Sep 22 at 12:50:38
‘What was the name of Sir Francis Drake's flagship in the battle against the Spanish Armada in 1588?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today's question from Oxford Reference; visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1982 to find the answer.

Clue: “ . . Sink me the ship, Master Gunner . . “


Message 50e5a913p13-10126-783+59.htm, number 128145, was posted on Fri Sep 22 at 13:03:13
in reply to 31bb881400A-10125-1119+5a.htm

‘ . . And a pinnace, like a flutter’d bird, came flying from far away . . '

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Sep 21, wombat wrote
---------------------------
>>Clue: “ . . Sink me the ship, Master Gunner . . “
>da dumpity dum de dum not into the hands of Spain....
>I have no idea. But wasn't that Don't Give up the Ship command given "At Flores in the Azores [where] Sir Richard Grenville lay"?
………………...
Correct:

‘AT Flores, in the Azores Sir Richard Grenville lay,     
And a pinnace, like a flutter’d bird, came flying from far away;     
“Spanish ships of war at sea! we have sighted fifty-three!” . .

. . But Sir Richard cried in his English pride:     
“We have fought such a fight for a day and a night     
As may never be fought again!     
We have won great glory, my men!             
And a day less or more     
At sea or ashore,     
We die—does it matter when?     
Sink me the ship, Master Gunner—sink her, split her in twain!     
Fall into the hands of God, not into the hands of Spain!”             

And the gunner said, “Ay, ay,” but the seamen made reply:     
“We have children, we have wives,     
And the Lord hath spared our lives.     
We will make the Spaniard promise, if we yield, to let us go;     
We shall live to fight again and to strike another blow.”             
And the lion there lay dying, and they yielded to the foe . . ‘

www.bartleby.com/42/646.html


Message 50e5a913p13-10126-798+04.htm, number 128146, was posted on Fri Sep 22 at 13:18:19
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10125-1119+05.htm

Re: "Cumulatively"?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Sep 21, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>The article finishes "....there’s an area cumulatively the size of France made up entirely of waste plastic in the sea".  Sure, that's impressive, but I've come to the conclusion that any time someone has to say "essentially" or "in effect" or any of several other adverbs, it means "not really".

>So what does "cumulatively" mean in this case?  How big is it really?  Is it the size that France would be if France had an inland sea the size of Romania?  If so, I'm much less impressed.

‘cumulatively, adv. = In a cumulative* manner’ (OED)

* 2. a. Constituted by or arising from accumulation, or the accession of successive portions or particulars . .  

The area is not a single island but an archipelago of islets. Its area is the sum total of the areas of the islets. So the LadBible has chosen a clumsy way to saying that the total area equals that of France.


Message 56003e26cb5-10126-800+1d.htm, number 128147, was posted on Fri Sep 22 at 13:20:11
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10125-1098+1e.htm

Re: Rereading Alistair MacLean

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com


Yep, definitely too young to be making a lot of money writing thrillers.

I remember Night Without End as one of the better ones. I also enjoyed Bear Island and Ice Station Zebra, and HMS Ulysses is in a class by itself, grim as it was. They were remarkably uneven, though. I thought Fear is the Key was tripe.


Message 56003e26cb5-10126-804+1c.htm, number 128148, was posted on Fri Sep 22 at 13:24:25
in reply to 46d3012900A-10124-300-30.htm

Re: Submarine discovered

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



They want to decide what to do with the bodies. Surely they should simply be left there as a war grave? We didn't remove the bodies from USS Arizona.

Message 4747f4808HW-10126-904+1d.htm, number 128149, was posted on Fri Sep 22 at 15:04:56
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10126-800+1d.htm

Re^2: Rereading Alistair MacLean

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I've been thinking I'll have to reread Fear is the Key; I don't remember much about the details.  On first reading I especially enjoyed The Satan Bug and The Golden Gate.  I still have good memories of the two Navaronnes.  I thought Puppet on a Chain kind of dark at first, but I liked it better some years later...or was that Caravan from Vaccarès?  River of Death (is that the one that takes place in the South-American jungle?) was when I suddenly noticed he was past his prime; I'm not sure I read anything by him after that.

The very best, IMO, is The Last Frontier, which was published in the US as The Secret Ways (but I read it twice, once under each title).  Good from beginning to end, as I recall, with memorable bits all along the way.  I especially enjoyed the final chess game (so to speak): move, counter-move, counter-counter-move—and a thoroughly dedicated cold-war adversary who didn't have to be a thoroughgoing knave.

On Fri Sep 22, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>Yep, definitely too young to be making a lot of money writing thrillers.

>I remember Night Without End as one of the better ones. I also enjoyed Bear Island and Ice Station Zebra, and HMS Ulysses is in a class by itself, grim as it was. They were remarkably uneven, though. I thought Fear is the Key was tripe.


Message 50e5a913p13-10127-458-07.htm, number 128150, was posted on Sat Sep 23 at 07:39:45
Test

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host

Message 50e5a913p13-10127-795-90.htm, number 128151, was posted on Sat Sep 23 at 13:15:07
Book Review: ‘A Legacy of Spies’ by John le Carré

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Alastair Benn writes: ‘John Le Carré’s novel ‘The Spy Who Came in from the Cold’ seemed to emerge fully formed from the Berlin sky, a spy novel of rare quality.  In his newest work, ‘A Legacy of Spies’, Le Carré revisits the novel that brought him fame.  For the hardened Le Carré fan, it is a chance to revisit much-loved characters such as George Smiley, Alec Leamas and Peter Guillam.  For the uninitiated, it is an elegant and accomplished introduction to Le Carré’s fictional universe . . ‘

reaction.life/book-review-legacy-spies-john-le-carre/
reaction.life/about/


Message 6c1413d300A-10127-1301+58.htm, number 128152, was posted on Sat Sep 23 at 21:41:12
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10125-1106+5a.htm

Re: Must have been heavily damaged

Don Seltzer


Different sources cited by Wikipedia put the loss at only 70, Spanish prize crew and British prisoners combined.

Spanish naval battles of that era were mostly boarding actions by soldiers carried on board.  Ships cannons did little damage to opposing ships, they were primarily anti-personnel weapons.  


On Thu Sep 21, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Says here:

....a 34-gun ship of 441 tons, launched at Deptford in 1577....fought her last fight, which lasted for fifteen hours, against overwhelming odds. When there was no further hope of fighting her, Grenville ordered her to be sunk. However, his surviving officers would not agree to this and terms of surrender were made with the Spaniards on the understanding that the lives and liberties of the ship's company should be spared....Five days after the battle the [vessel] foundered in a storm, taking with her 200 Spaniards who had been put on board.

>Two hundred men as a prize crew for a 34-gun ship?  Seems to me she must have been badly hurt to need that many; was she close to sinking, then?


Message d43867a100A-10128-518+57.htm, number 128153, was posted on Sun Sep 24 at 08:38:31
in reply to 31bb881400A-10125-1119+5a.htm

Re^2: ‘What was the name of Sir Francis Drake's flagship in the battle against the Spanish Armada in 1588?’ . .

Anonymous


On Thu Sep 21, wombat wrote
---------------------------
>I have recently come across the French naval captain, Du Petit-Thouars. I met him in the memoir of a French exile in the United States*. She described him as "exceptionally witty and gay", especially at the expense of the snootier émigrés who showed contempt for the Americans but were unable to support themselves by farming and were reduced to eating robins and boiled tadpoles. But I digress. Here is Wikipedia on Du Petit-Thouars:

>... commander of the Tonnant at the Battle of the Nile, where he died on August 2, 1798. During the battle, he forced HMS Majestic to break off combat, with 50 killed, including Captain Westcott, and 143 wounded. After having lost both legs and an arm, he continued to command from a bucket filled with wheat, until he died.

>His last order was allegedly to nail the flag of the Tonnant to her mizzen-mast and never to surrender the ship. The Tonnant was eventually captured by the British.

>* the fascinating recollections of Mme De La Tour du Pin "one of the great monuments of French history" (New Yorker).

Du Petit-Thouars always reminds me of the Black Knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail": www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

I am sure that this is maligning a very brave man, but nonetheless I can't help making the connection.


Message 47e54da900A-10128-816+59.htm, number 128154, was posted on Sun Sep 24 at 13:36:05
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10127-795-90.htm

A worthy read. I agree that George's character is a little "flat".

Hoyden


So who plays the Senior Citizens George and Peter? Do we just wait for Gary and Benedict to "grow (old) into" the roles?

Megan Markle as "Laura"?
Adam Brown as "Bunny"?




Message 50e5a913p13-10129-410-90.htm, number 128155, was posted on Mon Sep 25 at 06:50:02
‘Which adventurer and his fellow Spaniards became the first Europeans to see the Pacific Ocean on this day in 1513?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today’s question fromOxford Reference. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780198601753%2E013%2E0291 to find the answer.

Message 6c1413d300A-10129-693+5a.htm, number 128156, was posted on Mon Sep 25 at 11:33:08
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10129-410-90.htm

Re: ‘Which adventurer and his fellow Spaniards became the first Europeans to see the Pacific Ocean on this day in 1513?’ . .

Don Seltzer


On Mon Sep 25, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . is today’s question fromOxford Reference. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780198601753%2E013%2E0291 to find the answer.
>

Unless one considers those Europeans that had previously reached the Spice Islands in the western Pacific.


Message 68cdafb5gpf-10129-1118-07.htm, number 128157, was posted on Mon Sep 25 at 18:38:31
The Long Ships

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Somebody mentioned 'The Long Ships,' by Frans Bengtsson. I'd like to thank him, or her, for the recommendation. I am enjoying it very much.
There is a curious formality to the way Bengtsson has his people talk to each other, that I find very attractive.
As it happens, I can remember saying (or at least thinking) the same thing about O'Brian on my first encounter. Very different of course, in so many ways, but in the article of 'curious formality,' at least similar.


Message 68cdafb5gpf-10129-1145+5a.htm, number 128158, was posted on Mon Sep 25 at 19:05:10
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10129-410-90.htm

Re: ‘Which adventurer and his fellow Spaniards became the first Europeans to see the Pacific Ocean on this day in 1513?’ . .

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


We were taught in school it was Balboa. Not Rocky - some other Balboa

On Mon Sep 25, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . is today’s question fromOxford Reference. Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780198601753%2E013%2E0291 to find the answer.
>


Message 4747f4808HW-10131-506+05.htm, number 128159, was posted on Wed Sep 27 at 08:27:05
in reply to 68cdafb5gpf-10129-1118-07.htm

Re: The Long Ships

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


That'd be me, I guess.  I read The Long Ships as a teenager, and recently bought it on eBay so I could reread it.

Jan, it happens that it was only a few minutes ago that I got to the line I mentioned, "there is thyme in it".  I was wrong about it being near the end of the book, but they're back in the North after seven years in parts south, much of the time serving a Moorish caliph.  They're at a Jule celebration held by King Harald Bluetooth:

As the pork approached Orm and Toke, they sat quite still, with their faces turned towards the pot, watching the boy closely as he fished for the meat.  They sighed blissfully as he lifted out fine pieces of shoulder pork to put on their plates, reminding each other how long it was since they had last eaten such a dinner, and marveling that they had managed to survive so many years in a country where no pork was allowed to be eaten.  But when the blood-sausage arrived, tears came into their eyes, and they declared that they had never eaten a meal worthy of the name since they day they had sailed away with Krok.

"This is the best smell of all" said Orm in a small voice.

"There is thyme in it" said Toke huskily.

He plunged his sausage into his mouth, as far as it would go, bit off a length and slowly closed his jaws; then he swung hastily round, grabbing at the boy's coat as he attempted to move on with the trough, and said "If it be not contrary to King Harald's orders, give me at once another length of that sausage.  I have for some years past now fared indifferently among the Andalusians, where they have no food worthy of the name, and these seven Yules I have longed for blood-sausage and had none."

"My case, said Orm "is the same."

The line stuck with me, and may  be why I cook with thyme myself so often.

On Mon Sep 25, Joe McWilliams wrote
-----------------------------------
>Somebody mentioned 'The Long Ships,' by Frans Bengtsson. I'd like to thank him, or her, for the recommendation. I am enjoying it very much.

>There is a curious formality to the way Bengtsson has his people talk to each other, that I find very attractive.

>As it happens, I can remember saying (or at least thinking) the same thing about O'Brian on my first encounter. Very different of course, in so many ways, but in the article of 'curious formality,' at least similar.


Message 50e5a913p13-10131-832+58.htm, number 128160, was posted on Wed Sep 27 at 13:52:12
in reply to 68cdafb5gpf-10129-1145+5a.htm

Not ‘stout Cortez’ after all

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Mon Sep 25, Joe McWilliams wrote
-----------------------------------
>We were taught in school it was Balboa. Not Rocky - some other Balboa

……….

Correct! When I saw this question I thought ‘hah! every schoolboy knows it was ‘stout Cortez . . Silent, upon a peak in Darien.’:

On First Looking into Chapman's Homer

Much have I travell'd in the realms of gold,
And many goodly states and kingdoms seen;
Round many western islands have I been
Which bards in fealty to Apollo hold.

Oft of one wide expanse had I been told
That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne;
Yet did I never breathe its pure serene
Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:

Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
When a new planet swims into his ken;
Or like stout Cortez when with eagle eyes
He star'd at the Pacific
— and all his men
Look'd at each other with a wild surmise —
Silent, upon a peak in Darien.

John Keats, October 1816
Wrong! as wikipedia explains:

‘ . . it was the members of Vasco Núñez de Balboa's expedition who were the first Europeans to see the eastern shore of the Pacific (1513), but Keats chose to focus on Hernán Cortés; "Darien" refers to the Darién province of Panama. Keats had been reading William Robertson's History of America and apparently conflated two scenes there described: Balboa's finding of the Pacific and Cortés's first view of the Valley of Mexico (1519).

The Balboa passage: "At length the Indians assured them, that from the top of the next mountain they should discover the ocean which was the object of their wishes. When, with infinite toil, they had climbed up the greater part of the steep ascent, Balboa commanded his men to halt, and advanced alone to the summit, that he might be the first who should enjoy a spectacle which he had so long desired.

As soon as he beheld the South Sea stretching in endless prospect below him, he fell on his knees, and lifting up his hands to Heaven, returned thanks to God, who had conducted him to a discovery so beneficial to his country, and so honourable to himself. His followers, observing his transports of joy, rushed forward to join in his wonder, exultation, and gratitude" (Vol. III).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_First_Looking_into_Chapman%27s_Homer


Message 4747f4808HW-10132-1074+16.htm, number 128161, was posted on Thu Sep 28 at 17:54:33
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10126-804+1c.htm

Re^2: Submarine discovered

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Yeah, but surely that's an idiosyncratic decision.  "Idiosyncratic" may not be the right word, but "personal" isn't either; I mean that each culture would feel differently about that, and ours at least would feel differently under different circumstances.  It isn't like there's a moral absolute in this case, at least not one that I can detect.

Side note:  "We"?  Bâtard, I had the notion you're more a Brit than American.  Didn't you use to live on one of the Channel Islands?  Or am I mixing you up with someone else?

On Fri Sep 22, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>They want to decide what to do with the bodies. Surely they should simply be left there as a war grave? We didn't remove the bodies from USS Arizona.


Message 4747f4808HW-10132-1088-30.htm, number 128162, was posted on Thu Sep 28 at 18:07:56
The Trash Isles, Northern Pacific (reprised)

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Been meaning to ask this for a while, and now Hoyden's original post is on its way out so I have to start it again:  You wrote precisely, Chrístõ, but are you sure you wrote accurately?  Is France the size of the Trash Isles' land area, or only of its land-and-sea-combined area?

Wikipedia says "At 1,904,569 square kilometres (735,358 square miles), Indonesia is the world's 14th-largest country in terms of land area and world's 7th-largest country in terms of combined sea and land area."  That's the distinction I'm looking for regarding the Trash Isles.  Hoyden's article didn't say; if you think it's the sum only of the "land area", where are you getting that information?

On Fri Sep 22, Chrístõ wrote
>--------------------------------
>The area is not a single island but an archipelago of islets. Its area is the sum total of the areas of the islets. So the LadBible has chosen a clumsy way to saying that the total area equals that of France.

On Thu Sep 21, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>The article finishes "....there’s an area cumulatively the size of France made up entirely of waste plastic in the sea".  Sure, that's impressive, but I've come to the conclusion that any time someone has to say "essentially" or "in effect" or any of several other adverbs, it means "not really".

>So what does "cumulatively" mean in this case?  How big is it really?  Is it the size that France would be if France had an inland sea the size of Romania?  If so, I'm much less impressed.

On Tue Sep 19, Hoyden wrote
>--------------------------------
That'll cause a stir at Customs....

>http://qz.com/1080155/could-a-pile-of-trash-become-an-official-nation/


Message 4747f4808HW-10132-1092+53.htm, number 128163, was posted on Thu Sep 28 at 18:12:02
in reply to 6c1413d300A-10127-1301+58.htm

Re^2: Must have been heavily damaged

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


You seem to be talking about the butcher's bill; I'm asking about damage to the prize herself.  If you think the damage to the hull was light, why did she need such a large prize crew?  200 seems unnecessary to take a 34-gun ship in to harbor somewhere.  Or am I to think that the ship joined the fleet as a fighting vessel immediately? I guess that would make sense.

On Sat Sep 23, Don Seltzer wrote
--------------------------------
>Different sources cited by Wikipedia put the loss at only 70, Spanish prize crew and British prisoners combined.

>Spanish naval battles of that era were mostly boarding actions by soldiers carried on board.  Ships cannons did little damage to opposing ships, they were primarily anti-personnel weapons.  

>On Thu Sep 21, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>Says here:

....a 34-gun ship of 441 tons, launched at Deptford in 1577....fought her last fight, which lasted for fifteen hours, against overwhelming odds. When there was no further hope of fighting her, Grenville ordered her to be sunk. However, his surviving officers would not agree to this and terms of surrender were made with the Spaniards on the understanding that the lives and liberties of the ship's company should be spared....Five days after the battle the [vessel] foundered in a storm, taking with her 200 Spaniards who had been put on board.

>>Two hundred men as a prize crew for a 34-gun ship?  Seems to me she must have been badly hurt to need that many; was she close to sinking, then?


Message 6c1413d300A-10132-1211+53.htm, number 128164, was posted on Thu Sep 28 at 20:11:18
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10132-1092+53.htm

Re^3: Must have been heavily damaged

Don Seltzer


On Thu Sep 28, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>You seem to be talking about the butcher's bill; I'm asking about damage to the prize herself.  If you think the damage to the hull was light, why did she need such a large prize crew?  200 seems unnecessary to take a 34-gun ship in to harbor somewhere.  Or am I to think that the ship joined the fleet as a fighting vessel immediately? I guess that would make sense.


No, I was questioning whether there really were 200 Spaniards in the prize crew.  Other sources claim only 70 aboard, comprised of prize crew and British prisoners.  

My other comment about Spanish naval tactics was meant to suggest that the battle was unlikely to have caused serious damage to the British ship.  The Spanish strategy was generally to close quickly, grapple, and board with overwhelming numbers of soldiers. A lot of hand to hand combat and small arms fire, but not much ship-battering from a distance.


Message 4747f4808HW-10133-600+52.htm, number 128165, was posted on Fri Sep 29 at 10:00:08
in reply to 6c1413d300A-10132-1211+53.htm

Oh, ~that~ loss

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Oh, I thought by "the loss" you meant who was killed during the action, rather than who went down in the storm later.  Got it.

On Thu Sep 28, Don Seltzer wrote
--------------------------------
>No, I was questioning whether there really were 200 Spaniards in the prize crew.  Other sources claim only 70 aboard, comprised of prize crew and British prisoners.  

>My other comment about Spanish naval tactics was meant to suggest that the battle was unlikely to have caused serious damage to the British ship.  The Spanish strategy was generally to close quickly, grapple, and board with overwhelming numbers of soldiers. A lot of hand to hand combat and small arms fire, but not much ship-battering from a distance.

>On Thu Sep 28, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>You seem to be talking about the butcher's bill; I'm asking about damage to the prize herself.  If you think the damage to the hull was light, why did she need such a large prize crew?  200 seems unnecessary to take a 34-gun ship in to harbor somewhere.  Or am I to think that the ship joined the fleet as a fighting vessel immediately? I guess that would make sense.

On Sat Sep 23, Don Seltzer wrote
--------------------------------
>Different sources cited by Wikipedia put the loss at only 70, Spanish prize crew and British prisoners combined.


Message 465fd3f38YV-10133-708+15.htm, number 128166, was posted on Fri Sep 29 at 11:48:36
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10132-1074+16.htm

Re^3:Oh, good grief...

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


On Thu Sep 28, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
We have just determined that he is, in reality, Tom Bombadil.

I may have some of this wrong, but I think it goes; born in Kentucky, early childhood in the Sudan accompanied by his archeologist parents, western US, college in NoCal, then to England, and now spends a good part of his time teaching at a college in Sweden. World traveling lecturer, convention host and general bon vivant when not on his island with the Svenskas.

>Side note:  "We"?  Bâtard, I had the notion you're more a Brit than American.  Didn't you use to live on one of the Channel Islands?  Or am I mixing you up with someone else?

>On Fri Sep 22, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>They want to decide what to do with the bodies. Surely they should simply be left there as a war grave? We didn't remove the bodies from USS Arizona.


Message aeda08af00A-10133-1102-07.htm, number 128167, was posted on Fri Sep 29 at 18:22:07
Catalonian Independence vote

Hoyden


mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/europe/catalonia-independence-spain-referendum.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Message aeda08af00A-10133-1112-07.htm, number 128168, was posted on Fri Sep 29 at 18:31:34
Violence at Oxford

Hoyden


aeon.co/essays/why-has-england-lost-its-medieval-taste-for-violence

Message 446488d7qHC-10134-1099+15.htm, number 128169, was posted on Sat Sep 30 at 18:19:09
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10126-904+1d.htm

Re^3: Rereading Alistair MacLean

Terry Zobeck
turtle15@cox.net


I too first came upon Alistair MacLean through reading my father's copies. With the publication of Puppet on a Chain I began buying the hardcovers each year as a birthday present to myself.  But the quality of his writing quickly began to deteriorate due to alcoholism and indifference.  Perhaps coincidentally he forsook the first person point of view used in his best books.  Most of his remaining books--The Way to Dusty Death, Circus, Athabasca, Goodbye California, Seawitch, Floodgate, and the absolute nadir River of Death were quite poor.

But those early books, from HMS Ulysses through Where Eagles Dare were among the best of British adventure thrillers.  Standouts for me were The Guns of Navarone, South by Java Head, The Last Frontier, Night Without End, Ice Station Zebra and When Eight Bells Toll.

British author Mike Ripley recently published a great survey of the classic (1950s through early 1970s) British thriller writers called Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang.  If you like this genre, this is a great read.


Message 2f30d65200A-10134-1301-07.htm, number 128170, was posted on Sat Sep 30 at 21:41:19
Horrifying video by 92 year old survivor of "USS Indianapolis" sinking

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2017/09/30/us/uss-indianapolis-survivor-reunion/index.html

Message 50e5a913p13-10135-358+05.htm, number 128171, was posted on Sun Oct 1 at 05:57:35
in reply to aeda08af00A-10133-1102-07.htm

Catalan Independence vote - live blog Sunday October 1

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Catalan referendum: reports of riot police firing rubber bullets at protesters - live

Violence breaks out in Barcelona as riot police attack protests, while Catalans cast independence votes in peaceful defiance of Spanish government

Newsblog: www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

Interesting range of views in the comments.


Message 2f30d65200A-10135-462-07.htm, number 128172, was posted on Sun Oct 1 at 07:41:41
A chance for "an English Spleen" -- Kim Philby honored in Moscow

Hoyden


Stephen would have dissected him upon being landed in Riga.

www.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/world/europe/russia-kim-philb


Message 4747f4808HW-10135-579+14.htm, number 128173, was posted on Sun Oct 1 at 09:39:40
in reply to 446488d7qHC-10134-1099+15.htm

Re^4: Rereading Alistair MacLean

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm always confusing The Golden Gate with Goodbye California; I remember liking the former, but the latter wasn't as enjoyable.  Completely agree about River of Death.  Floodgate was in Holland, right?  I know I must have read the others on your Bad list; maybe I'll have to reread them just to see.

If you'll forgive a sloppy cut-and-paste, Wikipedia lists his titles this way:

Year Title Notes High
NYT
Wks
NYT
1955 HMS Ulysses #8 17
1957 The Guns of Navarone #12 3
1958 South by Java Head
1959 The Last Frontier in the US The Secret Ways
1959 Night Without End #13 2
1961 Fear Is the Key
1961 The Dark Crusader in the US The Black Shrike (as Ian Stuart)
1962 The Golden Rendezvous #13 8
1962 The Satan Bug as Ian Stuart #16 1
1962 All About Lawrence of Arabia Non-fiction
1963 Ice Station Zebra #10 1
1966 When Eight Bells Toll
1967 Where Eagles Dare He also wrote the screenplay. #8 8
1968 Force 10 From Navarone #4 18
1969 Puppet on a Chain Also wrote screenplay #5 17
1970 Caravan to Vaccarès #6 12
1971 Bear Island #5 14
1972 Alistair MacLean Introduces Scotland Non-fiction, edited by Alastair Dunnett
1972 Captain Cook Non-fiction
1973 The Way to Dusty Death
1974 Breakheart Pass
1975 Circus #5 12
1976 The Golden Gate #8 2
1977 Seawitch #15 1
1978 Goodbye California #10 9
1980 Athabasca #3 [7]
1981 River of Death
1982 Partisans #15 1
1983 Floodgate #12 3
1984 San Andreas
1985 The Lonely Sea Collection of short stories (2 stories added in 2009)
1986 Santorini #13 2

I mention it because his slide was apparently not consistent; I thought River of Death was awful even while I was reading it, but I don't remember thinking badly of Floodgate and although I'm not sure I ever read Santorini, it looks like it did alright according to those cryptic columns on the right.

Hm: Captain Cook, non-fiction?  I wasn't aware of that.

On Sat Sep 30, Terry Zobeck wrote
---------------------------------
>I too first came upon Alistair MacLean through reading my father's copies. With the publication of Puppet on a Chain I began buying the hardcovers each year as a birthday present to myself.  But the quality of his writing quickly began to deteriorate due to alcoholism and indifference.  Perhaps coincidentally he forsook the first person point of view used in his best books.  Most of his remaining books--The Way to Dusty Death, Circus, Athabasca, Goodbye California, Seawitch, Floodgate, and the absolute nadir River of Death were quite poor.

>But those early books, from HMS Ulysses through Where Eagles Dare were among the best of British adventure thrillers.  Standouts for me were The Guns of Navarone, South by Java Head, The Last Frontier, Night Without End, Ice Station Zebra and When Eight Bells Toll.

>British author Mike Ripley recently published a great survey of the classic (1950s through early 1970s) British thriller writers called Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang.  If you like this genre, this is a great read.


Message 446488d7qHC-10135-636+14.htm, number 128174, was posted on Sun Oct 1 at 10:36:12
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10135-579+14.htm

Re^5: Rereading Alistair MacLean

Terry Zobeck
turtle15@cox.net


Yes, I sometimes get confused by those two titles.  Neither is all that good.  This website features reviews of most of MacLean's novels--he is working his way through all of them; it is an excellent critical overview:

https://astrofella.wordpress.com/tag/alistair-maclean/

Yes, Captain Cook is non-fiction.  He also wrote a biography of Lawrence of Arabia as a tie-in to the movie; it was aimed at juveniles.

This is a site devoted to MacLean.  I contributed the images of all of the US and UK first editions of his books:

www.alistairmaclean.com/

Of the post-Puppet on a Chain novels the only ones I rate as coming anywhere near his classic period are Bear Island, Breakheart Pass (a Western of all things), Partisans, San Andreas, and his last book, Santorini.  But at best they are pale imitations, Bear Island being the best.


Message 47e54da900A-10135-1249-07.htm, number 128175, was posted on Sun Oct 1 at 20:49:34
"El Faro" sinking, final report.

Hoyden


www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/el-faro-captain-misjudged-hurricane-strength-coast-guard-says-n806351

Message 50e5a913p13-10141-440-90.htm, number 128176, was posted on Sat Oct 7 at 07:20:01
‘Which battle in the American War of Independence took place on this day in 1777??’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference.

Find the answer at: www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780191823497.001.0001/acref-9780191823497-e-361


Message aeda8f9200A-10141-569-07.htm, number 128177, was posted on Sat Oct 7 at 09:29:29
"How people used to walk in the Middle Ages, before the advent of fixed-sole shoes."

Hoyden


pictorial.jezebel.com/this-video-of-how-medieval-people-walked-is-oddly-compe-1819217663

Message aeda8f9200A-10141-678-07.htm, number 128178, was posted on Sat Oct 7 at 11:18:04
Is Trump a time traveler,

Hoyden


or is this a case of a prescient novelist?


www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/07/baron-trump-novels-victorian-215689


Message 6c1413d300A-10141-1166+5a.htm, number 128179, was posted on Sat Oct 7 at 19:26:44
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10141-440-90.htm

Re: ‘Which battle in the American War of Independence took place on this day in 1777??’ . .

Don Seltzer


On Sat Oct 7, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference.

>Find the answer at: www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780191823497.001.0001/acref-9780191823497-e-361

Benedict Arnold deserves much credit for the American victory, and not just for his exploits on the day of battle.  It was Arnold's naval initiatives in creating and leading an American flotilla on Lake Champlain in 1775 and 1776 that delayed the invasion from Canada for a year that was a major factor in the victory.

The Oxford Reference remarks about Gen Howe not getting the message in time is a gross simplification of the strategic backdrop.


Message 617ac72fUWK-10143-726+05.htm, number 128180, was posted on Mon Oct 9 at 12:06:04
in reply to aeda8f9200A-10141-678-07.htm

Say It three times fast

Culling Simples
cullysimp@yahoo.com


Twump  




On Sat Oct 7, Hoyden wrote
--------------------------
>or is this a case of a prescient novelist?
>
>
>www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/07/baron-trump-novels-victorian-215689

>


Message bddef7cc00A-10145-948-30.htm, number 128181, was posted on Wed Oct 11 at 15:48:11
Ted Lewis

Max


I'm reading a Ted Lewis crime novel set somewhere in the U.S. Hilarious. Lewis is a terrific genre writer but he has no clue as to what Americans sound like. I'm thinking this must be what Brits hear listening to Dick Van Dyke trying to sound cockney.
Now that I think about, one of the few times his Jack Carter character loses his cool is when someone mistakes him for a cockney. Jack is from Lincolnshire.

Thinking some more, when they filmed Get Carter they moved Jack's origin to, I think, Newcastle. This probably has some major significance to a Brit but is meaningless to an American.


Message 47e54da900A-10145-1177-07.htm, number 128182, was posted on Wed Oct 11 at 19:36:48
Thoreau -- journals and botanizing -- Mathurin like.

Hoyden


www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/11/what-thoreau-saw/540615/?utm_source=nl-atlantic-daily-101117&silverid=MzMzOT

Message 50e5a913p13-10146-409-90.htm, number 128183, was posted on Thu Oct 12 at 06:49:40
Deratting South Georgia

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'The search for surviving rodents:
image host
Dickie Hall – HR Project Director: In March 2015 the last bait pellet was dropped on South Georgia and the third eradication season came to an end. All of the indications since that day have been positive and no rodents have been sighted. Bird life is present in numbers not seen in living memory, with pipits and pintail ducks returning to breedinggrounds abandoned many years ago following the invasion of rodents . . ‘

tinyurl.com/y8dzlrl3


Message aedf04ba00A-10146-628+5a.htm, number 128184, was posted on Thu Oct 12 at 10:28:28
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10146-409-90.htm

In other rat news-- new species, eats coconuts in the Solomans.

Hoyden


www.google.com/amp/amp.dw.com/en/giant-coconut-eating-rat-found-in-solomon-islands/a-40691911

Should be named after Javier Bardem's character in "Skyfall".


Message 605b084d00A-10146-781-07.htm, number 128185, was posted on Thu Oct 12 at 13:01:12
A flogging ship? Hell afloat?

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2017/10/11/politics/morale-problems-us-navy-shiloh/index.html

Message 4747f4808HW-10147-553+1c.htm, number 128186, was posted on Fri Oct 13 at 09:14:03
in reply to bddef7cc00A-10145-948-30.htm

Re: Ted Lewis

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Reminds me that Dick Francis, whose thrillers I really enjoy, often puts "sure" in the mouths of American characters: "We sure are glad you came".  Apparently the Brits don't use sure to mean "very much", nor real either ("I'm real glad you said that").

It gets me wondering:  I would have said that "sure" as an emphatic is perfectly normal English, so how did I even recognize it in Francis' novels as an Americanism?  Does it stand out because to my ear it sounds out of place in British writing (which would allow me to consider myself real percipient), or because he overuses it a bit?  Or do Americans not say it any more?  I'm mouthing the sentences silently and I've come to suspect that I don't say "sure" that way myself, except maybe sometimes as a contrary assurance like the French si ("Sure I do!").

Back to Dick Van Dyke: As a child I had no problems with his supposedly hilarious cockney accent; I was perfectly willing to take it as the authoritative model.  But I confess to huge admiration now for those who can do it well.  Sam Neill, for example, Colin Ferrell, and not far behind them Hugh Laurie.  Oh, and Lindsay Lohan, or so it seemed to me.

On Wed Oct 11, Max wrote
------------------------
>I'm reading a Ted Lewis crime novel set somewhere in the U.S. Hilarious. Lewis is a terrific genre writer but he has no clue as to what Americans sound like. I'm thinking this must be what Brits hear listening to Dick Van Dyke trying to sound cockney.

>Now that I think about, one of the few times his Jack Carter character loses his cool is when someone mistakes him for a cockney. Jack is from Lincolnshire.

>Thinking some more, when they filmed Get Carter they moved Jack's origin to, I think, Newcastle. This probably has some major significance to a Brit but is meaningless to an American.


Message 47e54da900A-10147-1115-07.htm, number 128187, was posted on Fri Oct 13 at 18:34:58
Lack of laudanum--shared empathy.

Hoyden


aeon.co/essays/how-doctors-turned-away-from-their-patients-stories-of-pain

Message bddedad900A-10147-1205+1c.htm, number 128188, was posted on Fri Oct 13 at 20:05:15
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10147-553+1c.htm

Re^2: Ted Lewis

Max


The tell for Brits not really sounding US is that although they are good at not sounding Brit they fail at generating a realistic regional US accent. Saying sure is well and good but sure sounds different in North Carolina than Chicago.
Idris Elba put on a compleatly authentic black guy from Baltimore accent. Very impressive.



On Fri Oct 13, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Reminds me that Dick Francis, whose thrillers I really enjoy, often puts "sure" in the mouths of American characters: "We sure are glad you came".  Apparently the Brits don't use sure to mean "very much", nor real either ("I'm real glad you said that").

>It gets me wondering:  I would have said that "sure" as an emphatic is perfectly normal English, so how did I even recognize it in Francis' novels as an Americanism?  Does it stand out because to my ear it sounds out of place in British writing (which would allow me to consider myself real percipient), or because he overuses it a bit?  Or do Americans not say it any more?  I'm mouthing the sentences silently and I've come to suspect that I don't say "sure" that way myself, except maybe sometimes as a contrary assurance like the French si ("Sure I do!").

>Back to Dick Van Dyke: As a child I had no problems with his supposedly hilarious cockney accent; I was perfectly willing to take it as the authoritative model.  But I confess to huge admiration now for those who can do it well.  Sam Neill, for example, Colin Ferrell, and not far behind them Hugh Laurie.  Oh, and Lindsay Lohan, or so it seemed to me.

>On Wed Oct 11, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>I'm reading a Ted Lewis crime novel set somewhere in the U.S. Hilarious. Lewis is a terrific genre writer but he has no clue as to what Americans sound like. I'm thinking this must be what Brits hear listening to Dick Van Dyke trying to sound cockney.

>>Now that I think about, one of the few times his Jack Carter character loses his cool is when someone mistakes him for a cockney. Jack is from Lincolnshire.

>>Thinking some more, when they filmed Get Carter they moved Jack's origin to, I think, Newcastle. This probably has some major significance to a Brit but is meaningless to an American.


Message 47e54da900A-10149-691-07.htm, number 128189, was posted on Sun Oct 15 at 11:31:14
The things you tell me Jack; a hurricane in Ireland? The West of Ireland forsooth?

Hoyden


www.met.ie

"Update on Ophelia
12 October 2017

There has been some media coverage that hurricane Ophelia will impact Ireland to some degree at the start of next week. At this stage, there is strong evidence from the weather forecast models that its remnants will track close to or even over parts of Ireland, but at present, there are still a wide spread of possible outcomes. Our forecasters are treating the situation with caution and are in contact with our international colleagues, but given the lead time and the inherent uncertainties that come with the modelling of a tropical system it won’t be possible to quantify the exact timing, nor the strength or intensity of the wind and rain, in any great detail until later in the weekend. Ophelia won’t be a hurricane in meteorological terms when it reaches our part of the world as she will have moved over the cooler waters of the mid-Atlantic and undergone what is known as extra-tropical transition. So while there could be the threat of wind gusts reaching hurricane force or indeed heavy rainfall with this system, it means the traditional attributes of a hurricane – such as an eye or an eye-wall containing a core of hurricane force winds - are very unlikely to be present. Instead, it will likely engage and merge with a frontal zone in the Atlantic, morphing into a mid-latitude depression with tropical characteristics. Met Éireann forecasters will be keeping a close eye on the evolution of this storm over the coming days and warnings will be issued as confidence in the evolution allows."


Message 47e54da900A-10149-886+57.htm, number 128190, was posted on Sun Oct 15 at 14:45:44
in reply to aedf04ba00A-10146-628+5a.htm

*Solomons*. Foul auto-correct

Hoyden


Siri, spell....

Message 50e5a913p13-10149-1179+07.htm, number 128191, was posted on Sun Oct 15 at 19:39:01
in reply to 47e54da900A-10149-691-07.htm

Re: The things you tell me Jack; a hurricane in Ireland? . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Sun Oct 15, Hoyden  wrote
----------------------------
>www.met.ie

>"Update on Ophelia
>12 October 2017

> . . Ophelia won’t be a hurricane in meteorological terms when it reaches our part of the world as she will have moved over the cooler waters of the mid-Atlantic and undergone what is known as extra-tropical transition. So while there could be the threat of wind gusts reaching hurricane force or indeed heavy rainfall with this system, it means the traditional attributes of a hurricane – such as an eye or an eye-wall containing a core of hurricane force winds - are very unlikely to be presen . .

See:
earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-15.92,51.07,639
www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?cone#contents

and



The Great Storm of 1987


Message 50e5a913p13-10150-406+06.htm, number 128192, was posted on Mon Oct 16 at 06:46:19
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10149-1179+07.htm

Shipping forecast - Shannon

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Gale warning - Issued: 2141 UTC on Sunday 15 October 2017:

Northeasterly severe gale force 9 veering southerly and increasing hurricane force 12 soon, further veering westerly and decreasing gale force 8 later

Wind
Cyclonic becoming west severe gale 9 to violent storm 11, decreasing 5 to 7 later.

Sea state
High or very high becoming very rough.

Weather
Rain or showers.

Visibility
Moderate or poor, becoming good

www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/marine-shipping-forecast#shannon


Message 6c1413d300A-10150-604+06.htm, number 128193, was posted on Mon Oct 16 at 10:04:28
in reply to 47e54da900A-10149-691-07.htm

Re: The things you tell me Jack; a hurricane in Ireland? The West of Ireland forsooth?

Don Seltzer


On Sun Oct 15, Hoyden  wrote
----------------------------
>Ophelia won’t be a hurricane in meteorological terms when it reaches our part of the world as she will have moved over the cooler waters of the mid-Atlantic and undergone what is known as extra-tropical transition.

Hurricane Sandy had made a similar extra-tropical transition before it slammed into the mid-Atlantic states of the US in 2012.


Message 56003e26cb5-10150-687+03.htm, number 128194, was posted on Mon Oct 16 at 11:26:36
in reply to 605b084d00A-10146-781-07.htm

Bread and water, forsooth!

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



That strikes me as insufficient to a sailor's nutritional needs, which aren't met all that well anyway, from what I hear.

Message 56003e26cb5-10150-688+06.htm, number 128195, was posted on Mon Oct 16 at 11:28:30
in reply to 47e54da900A-10149-691-07.htm

We're in for a right dirty night, mate.

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



The sky here in the south of England is an evil yellow color. It's dust from the Sahara and smoke from forest fires in Portugal being sucked into the hurricane.

Orange Sky


Message 50e5a913p13-10151-783-90.htm, number 128196, was posted on Tue Oct 17 at 13:02:55
The sinking of Falklands warship HMS Sheffield

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The catalogue of errors and failings that ended in the sinking of a Royal Navy destroyer during the Falklands war has been disclosed after being covered up for 35 years. Marked “Secret – UK Eyes Bravo”, the full, uncensored report shows:

- Some members of the crew were “bored and a little frustrated by inactivity” and the ship was “not fully prepared” for an attack.
- The anti-air warfare officer had left the ship’s operations room and was having a coffee in the wardroom when the Argentinian navy launched the attack, while his assistant had left “to visit the heads” (relieve himself).
- The radar on board the ship that could have detected incoming Super Étendard fighter aircraft had been blanked out by a transmission being made to another vessel.
- When a nearby ship, HMS Glasgow, did spot the approaching aircraft, the principal warfare officer in the Sheffield’s ops room failed to react, “partly through inexperience, but more importantly from inadequacy”.
- The anti-air warfare officer was recalled to the ops room, but did not believe the Sheffield was within range of Argentina’s Super Étendard aircraft that carried the missiles.
- When the incoming missiles came into view, officers on the bridge were “mesmerised” by the sight and did not broadcast a warning to the ship’s company.

. . nobody called the captain. His ship did not go to “action stations”, did not fire off any clouds of chaff in an attempt to deflect the Exocets, and did not turn towards the incoming missiles in order to narrow the Sheffield’s profile. Moreover, some of the ship’s weapons were unloaded and unmanned, and no attempt was made to shoot down the incoming missiles . .

Clive Ponting, then a senior civil servant in the MoD, said the loss of the Sheffield was too great a catastrophe for the full facts to be made public. “Most people were clear that there wasn’t going to be public blame for mistakes that had been made,” Ponting said.

[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/15/revealed-full-story-behind-sinking-of-falklands-warship-hms-sheffield]
………….
'The National Archives said the document . . was only available to view in person at its headquarters in Kew, London.’

Operation Corporate (Falkland Conflict): Board of Inquiry into the loss of HMS Sheffield; report

discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16517022


Message 50e5a913p13-10151-817-90.htm, number 128197, was posted on Tue Oct 17 at 13:37:31
The Butchering Art by Lindsey Fitzharris – grisly medicine

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'In The Butchering Art, historian Lindsey Fitzharris recreates a critical turning point in the history of medicine, when Joseph Lister transformed surgery from a brutal, harrowing practice to the safe, vaunted profession we know today.'
www.penguin.co.nz/books/the-butchering-art-joseph-listers-quest-to-transform-the-brutal-world-of-victorian-medicine-978024126

'Review: The Butchering Art: Joseph Lister’s Quest to Transform the Grisly World of Victorian Medicine – Lindsey Fitzharris’s story of Lister’s battle to introduce hygiene to the operating theatre makes compelling reading'
www.theguardian.com/books/2017/oct/09/butchering-art-review-joseph-listers-quest-grisly-world-victorian-medicine-lindsey-fitzharris

Profile: www.theguardian.com/books/2017/oct/12/the-butchering-art-by-lindsey-fitzharris-review
www.drlindseyfitzharris.com/

Dr Lindsey Fitzharris will be touring the US from October 17th to November 5th, beginning at the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia and ending at Coney Island in New York City. Go to www.drlindseyfitzharris.com/ to see full schedule.


Message 4747f4808HW-10151-893-30.htm, number 128198, was posted on Tue Oct 17 at 14:54:30
Speaking of inconsistent authors....

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


We were speaking of Alistair MacLean recently, who (in not just my opinion) started out well and trailed off miserably.  I'd say Peter Benchley did the same; I loved Jaws and The Deep, positively adored The Girl of the Sea of Cortez, and as I recall Jaws 2 was good—I'm talking about the books, not the movies—but Beast was pretty bad and White Shark was just awful.

Now, I have a different problem with John Grisham:  Some of his novels I can't put down, and some I can't finish.  I don't think it's a matter of inconsistent quality, just that some appeal to me and some don't.  I'm curious about whether I'm the only one.

In the first category, "Couldn't put it down", I'd put A Time to Kill, The Runaway Jury and The Client, also maybe The Rainmaker. Couldn't finish The Star Chamber, I can't identify why.  I finished The King of Torts and Gray Mountain, but I wish I hadn't; they were far too preachy, with one-dimensional villains both individual and corporate.  I just finished the first Theodore Boone, Kid Lawyer and plan to read more.  (I never did give up reading juvenile novels, and don't plan stop now.)  I see that there are a lot more on his list; guess I'll have to sample more of them.

With most authors I love, once I find out about them I'm willing to read anything they write.  Elizabeth Moon and Robert Heinlein leap to mind; also any collaboration by David Niven and Jerry Pournelle, any Kipling story ... well, never mind.  The point is that for some reason John Grisham writes novels I love and novels I hate.  Anyone else have that reaction?  And can anyone identify why?


Message 6cadb064gpf-10151-1118+1e.htm, number 128199, was posted on Tue Oct 17 at 18:37:57
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10151-893-30.htm

Re: Speaking of inconsistent authors....

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Bob, my experience with Grisham is similar, except I've pretty much given up on him. I've pretty much given up on all sorts of authors since encountering Patrick O'Brian. I simply can't tolerate the shallow crap that I once found interesting. I fall back - with some exceptions - on the tried and true classics i.e. Dickens and Twain and find they seldom disappoint.


On Tue Oct 17, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>We were speaking of Alistair MacLean recently, who (in not just my opinion) started out well and trailed off miserably.  I'd say Peter Benchley did the same; I loved Jaws and The Deep, positively adored The Girl of the Sea of Cortez, and as I recall Jaws 2 was good—I'm talking about the books, not the movies—but Beast was pretty bad and White Shark was just awful.

>Now, I have a different problem with John Grisham:  Some of his novels I can't put down, and some I can't finish.  I don't think it's a matter of inconsistent quality, just that some appeal to me and some don't.  I'm curious about whether I'm the only one.

>In the first category, "Couldn't put it down", I'd put A Time to Kill, The Runaway Jury and The Client, also maybe The Rainmaker. Couldn't finish The Star Chamber, I can't identify why.  I finished The King of Torts and Gray Mountain, but I wish I hadn't; they were far too preachy, with one-dimensional villains both individual and corporate.  I just finished the first Theodore Boone, Kid Lawyer and plan to read more.  (I never did give up reading juvenile novels, and don't plan stop now.)  I see that there are a lot more on his list; guess I'll have to sample more of them.

>With most authors I love, once I find out about them I'm willing to read anything they write.  Elizabeth Moon and Robert Heinlein leap to mind; also any collaboration by David Niven and Jerry Pournelle, any Kipling story ... well, never mind.  The point is that for some reason John Grisham writes novels I love and novels I hate.  Anyone else have that reaction?  And can anyone identify why?


Message 591e316400A-10152-190+1d.htm, number 128200, was posted on Wed Oct 18 at 03:10:24
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10151-893-30.htm

Re: Speaking of inconsistent authors....

NiceRedTrousers


The thought of David Niven and Jerry Pournelle collaborating made me chuckle: "The Moon's a Balloon" with added Moties.
Larry Niven on the other hand...but I'm being pedantic - sorry!

I do like Niven and Pournelle, and I agree about Heinlein.  When I was devouring his books in my teens I'd read anything, even if I did struggle a bit with Stranger in a Strange Land and some of his later works.

I'm a big Neal Stephenson fan - Cryptonomicon, The Baroque Cycle (great for history buffs), but I have to grind through some of his more recent stuff.

I can't say I've read any John Grisham.  I think the marketing of the blockbuster films may have put me off, but then it didn't put me off Tom Clancy so maybe I should give him a go.


On Tue Oct 17, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>We were speaking of Alistair MacLean recently, who (in not just my opinion) started out well and trailed off miserably.  I'd say Peter Benchley did the same; I loved Jaws and The Deep, positively adored The Girl of the Sea of Cortez, and as I recall Jaws 2 was good—I'm talking about the books, not the movies—but Beast was pretty bad and White Shark was just awful.

>Now, I have a different problem with John Grisham:  Some of his novels I can't put down, and some I can't finish.  I don't think it's a matter of inconsistent quality, just that some appeal to me and some don't.  I'm curious about whether I'm the only one.

>In the first category, "Couldn't put it down", I'd put A Time to Kill, The Runaway Jury and The Client, also maybe The Rainmaker. Couldn't finish The Star Chamber, I can't identify why.  I finished The King of Torts and Gray Mountain, but I wish I hadn't; they were far too preachy, with one-dimensional villains both individual and corporate.  I just finished the first Theodore Boone, Kid Lawyer and plan to read more.  (I never did give up reading juvenile novels, and don't plan stop now.)  I see that there are a lot more on his list; guess I'll have to sample more of them.

>With most authors I love, once I find out about them I'm willing to read anything they write.  Elizabeth Moon and Robert Heinlein leap to mind; also any collaboration by David Niven and Jerry Pournelle, any Kipling story ... well, never mind.  The point is that for some reason John Grisham writes novels I love and novels I hate.  Anyone else have that reaction?  And can anyone identify why?


Message 4747f4808HW-10152-672+1d.htm, number 128201, was posted on Wed Oct 18 at 11:13:06
in reply to 591e316400A-10152-190+1d.htm

Re^2: Speaking of inconsistent authors....

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Funny—I can't recall a Tom-Clancy movie that satisfied me, certainly including Hunt for Red October.  I probably would have liked it better had the book not spoiled me for the movie.

I used to think the problem was simply that books always spoil me for the movie, but I've found a few exceptions.  Mostly when movies change the plot, I get all chuffed about it.  I can live with Liv Tyler as an elf, but that whole added bit with Strider falling off a cliff seemed like a stupidly unnecessary embellishment to me—and I was wroth, very wroth when Faramir dragged Frodo and Sam all the way back to Osgiliath before finally releasing him with that fatuous line "I think at last we understand each other, Frodo Baggins".  The recent attempts at Narnia stories I accorded one horrified look and then turned away in disgust.  And so on.

But except for a few movies that clung closely to the book (for example Where Eagles Dare and the Harry-Potter series), the ones I enjoyed seem to be where the plots changed so much it was almost a different story.  Jaws wasn't much like the book, but they made a good (different) story out of it.  Likewise Jurassic Park.

I'll risk the pedantry just long enough to ask: David Niven good or bad?  Oh, wait, Larry Niven!  Yes, I'm always getting those two turned around; sorry about that.

On Wed Oct 18, NiceRedTrousers wrote
------------------------------------
>The thought of David Niven and Jerry Pournelle collaborating made me chuckle: "The Moon's a Balloon" with added Moties.
>Larry Niven on the other hand...but I'm being pedantic - sorry!

>I do like Niven and Pournelle, and I agree about Heinlein.  When I was devouring his books in my teens I'd read anything, even if I did struggle a bit with Stranger in a Strange Land and some of his later works.

>I'm a big Neal Stephenson fan - Cryptonomicon, The Baroque Cycle (great for history buffs), but I have to grind through some of his more recent stuff.

>I can't say I've read any John Grisham.  I think the marketing of the blockbuster films may have put me off, but then it didn't put me off Tom Clancy so maybe I should give him a go.

>On Tue Oct 17, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>We were speaking of Alistair MacLean recently, who (in not just my opinion) started out well and trailed off miserably.  I'd say Peter Benchley did the same; I loved Jaws and The Deep, positively adored The Girl of the Sea of Cortez, and as I recall Jaws 2 was good—I'm talking about the books, not the movies—but Beast was pretty bad and White Shark was just awful.

>>Now, I have a different problem with John Grisham:  Some of his novels I can't put down, and some I can't finish.  I don't think it's a matter of inconsistent quality, just that some appeal to me and some don't.  I'm curious about whether I'm the only one.

>>In the first category, "Couldn't put it down", I'd put A Time to Kill, The Runaway Jury and The Client, also maybe The Rainmaker. Couldn't finish The Star Chamber, I can't identify why.  I finished The King of Torts and Gray Mountain, but I wish I hadn't; they were far too preachy, with one-dimensional villains both individual and corporate.  I just finished the first Theodore Boone, Kid Lawyer and plan to read more.  (I never did give up reading juvenile novels, and don't plan stop now.)  I see that there are a lot more on his list; guess I'll have to sample more of them.

>>With most authors I love, once I find out about them I'm willing to read anything they write.  Elizabeth Moon and Robert Heinlein leap to mind; also any collaboration by David Niven and Jerry Pournelle, any Kipling story ... well, never mind.  The point is that for some reason John Grisham writes novels I love and novels I hate.  Anyone else have that reaction?  And can anyone identify why?


Message 2fb505cc00A-10153-527+1c.htm, number 128202, was posted on Thu Oct 19 at 08:46:59
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10152-672+1d.htm

Re^3: Speaking of inconsistent authors....

Max


If, like me, you are a lawyer then the plot holes in Grisham are fatal.

Clancy is like George Martin, just dense enough to keep my attention without requiring real thought.


On Wed Oct 18, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Funny—I can't recall a Tom-Clancy movie that satisfied me, certainly including Hunt for Red October.  I probably would have liked it better had the book not spoiled me for the movie.

>I used to think the problem was simply that books always spoil me for the movie, but I've found a few exceptions.  Mostly when movies change the plot, I get all chuffed about it.  I can live with Liv Tyler as an elf, but that whole added bit with Strider falling off a cliff seemed like a stupidly unnecessary embellishment to me—and I was wroth, very wroth when Faramir dragged Frodo and Sam all the way back to Osgiliath before finally releasing him with that fatuous line "I think at last we understand each other, Frodo Baggins".  The recent attempts at Narnia stories I accorded one horrified look and then turned away in disgust.  And so on.

>But except for a few movies that clung closely to the book (for example Where Eagles Dare and the Harry-Potter series), the ones I enjoyed seem to be where the plots changed so much it was almost a different story.  Jaws wasn't much like the book, but they made a good (different) story out of it.  Likewise Jurassic Park.

>I'll risk the pedantry just long enough to ask: David Niven good or bad?  Oh, wait, Larry Niven!  Yes, I'm always getting those two turned around; sorry about that.

>On Wed Oct 18, NiceRedTrousers wrote
>------------------------------------
>>The thought of David Niven and Jerry Pournelle collaborating made me chuckle: "The Moon's a Balloon" with added Moties.
>>Larry Niven on the other hand...but I'm being pedantic - sorry!

>>I do like Niven and Pournelle, and I agree about Heinlein.  When I was devouring his books in my teens I'd read anything, even if I did struggle a bit with Stranger in a Strange Land and some of his later works.

>>I'm a big Neal Stephenson fan - Cryptonomicon, The Baroque Cycle (great for history buffs), but I have to grind through some of his more recent stuff.

>>I can't say I've read any John Grisham.  I think the marketing of the blockbuster films may have put me off, but then it didn't put me off Tom Clancy so maybe I should give him a go.

>>On Tue Oct 17, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>We were speaking of Alistair MacLean recently, who (in not just my opinion) started out well and trailed off miserably.  I'd say Peter Benchley did the same; I loved Jaws and The Deep, positively adored The Girl of the Sea of Cortez, and as I recall Jaws 2 was good—I'm talking about the books, not the movies—but Beast was pretty bad and White Shark was just awful.

>>>Now, I have a different problem with John Grisham:  Some of his novels I can't put down, and some I can't finish.  I don't think it's a matter of inconsistent quality, just that some appeal to me and some don't.  I'm curious about whether I'm the only one.

>>>In the first category, "Couldn't put it down", I'd put A Time to Kill, The Runaway Jury and The Client, also maybe The Rainmaker. Couldn't finish The Star Chamber, I can't identify why.  I finished The King of Torts and Gray Mountain, but I wish I hadn't; they were far too preachy, with one-dimensional villains both individual and corporate.  I just finished the first Theodore Boone, Kid Lawyer and plan to read more.  (I never did give up reading juvenile novels, and don't plan stop now.)  I see that there are a lot more on his list; guess I'll have to sample more of them.

>>>With most authors I love, once I find out about them I'm willing to read anything they write.  Elizabeth Moon and Robert Heinlein leap to mind; also any collaboration by David Niven and Jerry Pournelle, any Kipling story ... well, never mind.  The point is that for some reason John Grisham writes novels I love and novels I hate.  Anyone else have that reaction?  And can anyone identify why?


Message 4747f4808HW-10153-1308+1c.htm, number 128203, was posted on Thu Oct 19 at 21:48:34
in reply to 2fb505cc00A-10153-527+1c.htm

Re^4: Speaking of inconsistent authors....

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


That makes sense.  When I read a story where the author gets the computer details right, at the very least the missing mistakes don't distract me from the story and at best I actually enjoy finding a writer who took the trouble.  I read one of those just last week, now if I can just remember whose ... oh, I'll bet it was Twice Shy by Dick Francis.  And I remember grimacing at some of the computer concepts attempted in the beginning of The Hunt for Red October, although in the end I raved over it.

(I'd told my librarian I'd been caught up in submarine stories lately, and she recommended THfRO.  I came back raving, as I said, and she told me "Yeah, that books been kind of a sleeper; it's been around for about two years and nobody's noticed it, but suddenly it's getting attention".  After that I read all the Tom-Clancy stories, but within a few months I had to start getting on a waiting list.

Max, if Grisham were already an adored favorite I might not want to know—or maybe I would—but as it is I'd rather hear the facts than revere the author:  Care to let me in on one or three of the fatal legal-procedure flaws?  (I have a private bet with myself that one of them might be the bit in The Rainmaker where the insurance company "complied" with the discovery requirements by handing over unintelligible computer reports several feet thick, and during the trial the lawyer handed the same printout to an executive of the corporate defendant on the witness stand and asked him several questions based on that report, which the executive of course couldn't answer.  I thought it was a lovely move at the time, but later I decided it's probably an old trick and therefore no longer used.)

On Thu Oct 19, Max wrote
------------------------
>If, like me, you are a lawyer then the plot holes in Grisham are fatal.

>Clancy is like George Martin, just dense enough to keep my attention without requiring real thought.

>On Wed Oct 18, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>Funny—I can't recall a Tom-Clancy movie that satisfied me, certainly including Hunt for Red October.  I probably would have liked it better had the book not spoiled me for the movie.

>>I used to think the problem was simply that books always spoil me for the movie, but I've found a few exceptions.  Mostly when movies change the plot, I get all chuffed about it.  I can live with Liv Tyler as an elf, but that whole added bit with Strider falling off a cliff seemed like a stupidly unnecessary embellishment to me—and I was wroth, very wroth when Faramir dragged Frodo and Sam all the way back to Osgiliath before finally releasing him with that fatuous line "I think at last we understand each other, Frodo Baggins".  The recent attempts at Narnia stories I accorded one horrified look and then turned away in disgust.  And so on.

>>But except for a few movies that clung closely to the book (for example Where Eagles Dare and the Harry-Potter series), the ones I enjoyed seem to be where the plots changed so much it was almost a different story.  Jaws wasn't much like the book, but they made a good (different) story out of it.  Likewise Jurassic Park.

>>I'll risk the pedantry just long enough to ask: David Niven good or bad?  Oh, wait, Larry Niven!  Yes, I'm always getting those two turned around; sorry about that.

>>On Wed Oct 18, NiceRedTrousers wrote
>>------------------------------------
>>>The thought of David Niven and Jerry Pournelle collaborating made me chuckle: "The Moon's a Balloon" with added Moties.
>>>Larry Niven on the other hand...but I'm being pedantic - sorry!

>>>I do like Niven and Pournelle, and I agree about Heinlein.  When I was devouring his books in my teens I'd read anything, even if I did struggle a bit with Stranger in a Strange Land and some of his later works.

>>>I'm a big Neal Stephenson fan - Cryptonomicon, The Baroque Cycle (great for history buffs), but I have to grind through some of his more recent stuff.

>>>I can't say I've read any John Grisham.  I think the marketing of the blockbuster films may have put me off, but then it didn't put me off Tom Clancy so maybe I should give him a go.

>>>On Tue Oct 17, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>--------------------------------
>>>>We were speaking of Alistair MacLean recently, who (in not just my opinion) started out well and trailed off miserably.  I'd say Peter Benchley did the same; I loved Jaws and The Deep, positively adored The Girl of the Sea of Cortez, and as I recall Jaws 2 was good—I'm talking about the books, not the movies—but Beast was pretty bad and White Shark was just awful.

>>>>Now, I have a different problem with John Grisham:  Some of his novels I can't put down, and some I can't finish.  I don't think it's a matter of inconsistent quality, just that some appeal to me and some don't.  I'm curious about whether I'm the only one.

>>>>In the first category, "Couldn't put it down", I'd put A Time to Kill, The Runaway Jury and The Client, also maybe The Rainmaker. Couldn't finish The Star Chamber, I can't identify why.  I finished The King of Torts and Gray Mountain, but I wish I hadn't; they were far too preachy, with one-dimensional villains both individual and corporate.  I just finished the first Theodore Boone, Kid Lawyer and plan to read more.  (I never did give up reading juvenile novels, and don't plan stop now.)  I see that there are a lot more on his list; guess I'll have to sample more of them.

>>>>With most authors I love, once I find out about them I'm willing to read anything they write.  Elizabeth Moon and Robert Heinlein leap to mind; also any collaboration by David Niven and Jerry Pournelle, any Kipling story ... well, never mind.  The point is that for some reason John Grisham writes novels I love and novels I hate.  Anyone else have that reaction?  And can anyone identify why?


Message c61740a78YV-10154-843-90.htm, number 128204, was posted on Fri Oct 20 at 14:02:48
The Hunt for...

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


"That well known publication, the London Literary Review, today carries
an item and extract on the new book.

"Due to other writing commitments, Patrick O'Brian has engaged his close
friend Tom Clancy to ghost-write his next book. An extract is printed below.
At first this may seem an unlikely pairing; it dates back to a review by
Mr.O'Brian of Mr. Clancy's book 'The Sum of All Fears', at which Clancy took
offence and called his elderly fellow author out for a duel. This was settled
by each carrying his trademark weapon - an antique silver-handled flintlock
pistol for O'Brian, and a laser-guided anti-tank bazooka with computerised
wind-compensation and terrain-following guidance system for Clancy (both
obtained by mail-order from Sears). The duel resulted in minor flesh wounds
for both and a rather singed appearance to O'Brian's hair, at which point
honour was satisfied and a firm friendship ensued. We are honoured to print a
small part of the resulting book."

*** NORTH ATLANTIC, 0900 ZULU, 13 DECEMBER 1803

In the grey cold fog, the silent, sleek, deadly hull of the HMS Stealthy
cut through the waters. On her quarterdeck Jack Aubrey peered about him
through the mist.

"What have we got up, Tom ?"

"Sir, I have two lookouts at Combat Mast Patrol on the fore and main
crosstrees, and two midshipmen spotted on the deck at Plus Five readiness
with orders for the tops."

"Get 'em up, Mr. Pullings"

At the blast of a whistle, deckhands rushed up to the mids, snatched away
their coffee cups, rammed hard round hats and small silvery spectacles
designed by Stephen on their heads, and stood back. The midshipmen twirled
their
forefingers and gave a thumbs-up, a crewman raised his right arm, and two
burly Able Seamen picked up the reefers and launched them at the ratlines.
They swarmed upwards.

"They're off, Sir."

"Very good, Tom."

A short while later there came a shout.

"Conn, Masthead: one sail, bearing two-five-zero, range four, closing.
Topsails only."

"Evasive, Mr. Pullings."

A short while later, they were ghosting along behind the other vessel,
murky in the fog.

"Tom, I believe we may... - er, why is Mr. Martin shouting 'Call the
ball' at that bird ?"

"Truth to tell, Sir, I'm not entirely sure."

They watched with puzzled frowns as the Revd. Martin dropped his red and
green lanterns and screamed "Wave off! Wave off!" at a small fat quail gliding
down towards the deck. It clipped the taffrail, tripped nose down onto the
deck and skidded forward to collide with Jack's feet, smoking gently. Martin
grabbed it, took a roll of paper off its leg, and gave it to Jack before
hurrying downstairs with the bird, comforting it. The paper was labelled
"Admiralty Mk.IIIA Quail-Type Long-Range Communications Asset, HM Govt
Property"
and was crammed with coded gibberish. Jack shook his head resignedly and took
it
below. Damned newfangled devices.

As he entered his cabin an arm shot round his neck and squeezed his
windpipe, and an uncouth voice breathed in his ear:

"I can break your spine in three places from here with my left kneecap.
The desk is booby-trapped, I know 15 martial arts, I've just poured
gunpowder down your shirt and I can light a match with my bare teeth. You can
call
me Clark - John Clark. It's not my real name, but you'll be dead before you
find out."

"Look - for God's sake, Killick."

"Oh. Beg parding, Cap'n. I was just guarding these here wicked private papers,
and I didn't knows it was you."

"Christ. Well, here's another one. Take it down to my clerk, and if I
catch you at my Madeira again..."

There came another shout from above. The ship in front was heeling to
starboard unexpectedly - a French manoeuvre known to the Royal Navy as 'Crazy
Yves'. Jack rushed on deck, shouting 'back the foretopsail!'.

"Conn, Masthead: we're cavitating - the sails are flapping! He can hear
us!"

A shot boomed out from in front. It had been meant as a warning, but a
ball came skipping over the water, ricocheted off a tall wave, and smashed
Jack's quarter-gallery to smithereens. He looked down mournfully at the
remains
of his place of ease drifting away in the swell, reflecting that only that
morning he'd taken half a dozen of the Doctor's special blue pills. That did
it.

"Bonden, stand by to establish contact with submarine assets," he barked.
"Tom, in the Doctor's absence please ask Mr. Martin to arm the ASLOTH
launcher."

Bonden ran below and leaned out of a gunport. Below him the Doctor's wooden
submersible, copied after his earlier model used in the Red Sea, bobbed
a few feet under the surface. Above him he heard the cry, "Bonden, activate
the Ultra Low Frequency underwater communications device". He promptly
picked up a bargepole and rapped smartly three times on the top of the wooden
diving
bell.

Inside, Stephen and Padeen heard the thump - thump - thump. "Is there to be
no peace in this miserable war-torn world ?" fumed Stephen, flinging aside the
squid he'd been examining. There was a sad wet squelch. "Very well - hand me
that cursed book", He rifled through His Majesty's Admiralty's General
Printed Instructions on the Deployment of Underwater Vehicles, 3rd Edition.
"Three taps - STAND OUT FROM UNDER, WE'RE SINKING - no, no, wrong page -
ah, here we are: BY THE AUTHORITY INVESTED IN ME BY THEIR LORDSHIPS, I DO
REQUIRE AND DIRECT YOU TO CONDUCT UNRESTRICTED WARFARE AGAINST ALL
SURFACE TARGETS IN VICINITY, OR ANSWER TO THE CONTRARY AT YOUR PERIL. RULES OF
ENGAGEMENT OPTION BRAVO. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. - good heavens, all that
from three taps, for all love ?"

"The English are a verbose race, so they are." replied Padeen in his native
fluent Gaelic, climbing on to his geared pedals. Outside a propellor
began to turn, and they moved off. Operation SCREAMING JELLYFISH was underway.

Back on deck, Jack brought the ship about and gave the order to fire.
His Gunner had been a gunner's mate under him on board the old Worcester,
and had unfortunately been deeply impressed by the firework powder that Jack
had used for practice firing. Nowadays he had to be constantly checked
from loading the ship with flares, flying rockets, sparklers, and
Catherine wheels. The results of his last run ashore now became sadly apparent
as
the guns went off and the air between the two ships filled with spinning,
whistling, dazzling projectiles in assorted colours; great gushes and
fountains
of sparks; shots that flew up to a great height and then divided into
countless lovely flames, and one that exploded into hundreds of tiny flares on
cute little parachutes. The Gunner giggled and rolled around on the deck,
chuckling and sucking his thumb. His mate hurried him off to feed him
more of his regular dried herb pills.

Meanwhile, Martin had finished his preparations. He patted the hollow
projectile, and watched as it was loaded into a stumpy gun on the
forecastle. There was a loud bang, and the secret weapon was on its way. It
soared
out over the water. As it reached its apogee, the protective shroud fell
away and the warhead got its first view of the enemy. Wearing little
protective
goggles, it peered around as its canvas canopy opened. The sloth settled
gently on the deck, unseen, and began to gnaw away at the rigging.

Jack stood on his quarterdeck and gazed through his telescope as his elite
forces did their worst. The enemy's masts tumbled in a confusion of
sails as the sloth triumphed. The Gunner's special unauthorised flare-shower
set
the whole mass on fire. Finally the diving bell with its specially adapted
hull-mounted surgical bone-drill sent the lot bubbling into the sea. The
Gunner's last shot detonated in a carefully timed shower of delayed flares,
leaving the words THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING TO THE SHOW HAPPY GUY FAWKES DAY
GOD SAVE
THE KING AND PARLIAMENT hanging in letters of fire above the wreckage.

The clerk came running up on deck, waving his decoded message. "To Captn
Stealthy comma at sea stop", it read. "Be advised my brother Heneage in
your immediate area comma carrying despatches for you stop convey my regards
Doctor Maturin stop Melville comma FstSeaLd stop".

"Er..." said Jack, looking uncertainly at the sodden splinters drifting
past him. The fog rolled in.

[Marketing Director to Editorial team, MEMO: any chance of getting Craig
Thomas instead ?]"


Message c61740a78YV-10154-845+1b.htm, number 128205, was posted on Fri Oct 20 at 14:05:02
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10153-1308+1c.htm

Re^5: The Hunt for...

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


"That well known publication, the London Literary Review, today carries
an item and extract on the new book.

"Due to other writing commitments, Patrick O'Brian has engaged his close
friend Tom Clancy to ghost-write his next book. An extract is printed below.
At first this may seem an unlikely pairing; it dates back to a review by
Mr.O'Brian of Mr. Clancy's book 'The Sum of All Fears', at which Clancy took
offence and called his elderly fellow author out for a duel. This was settled
by each carrying his trademark weapon - an antique silver-handled flintlock
pistol for O'Brian, and a laser-guided anti-tank bazooka with computerised
wind-compensation and terrain-following guidance system for Clancy (both
obtained by mail-order from Sears). The duel resulted in minor flesh wounds
for both and a rather singed appearance to O'Brian's hair, at which point
honour was satisfied and a firm friendship ensued. We are honoured to print a
small part of the resulting book."

*** NORTH ATLANTIC, 0900 ZULU, 13 DECEMBER 1803

In the grey cold fog, the silent, sleek, deadly hull of the HMS Stealthy
cut through the waters. On her quarterdeck Jack Aubrey peered about him
through the mist.

"What have we got up, Tom ?"

"Sir, I have two lookouts at Combat Mast Patrol on the fore and main
crosstrees, and two midshipmen spotted on the deck at Plus Five readiness
with orders for the tops."

"Get 'em up, Mr. Pullings"

At the blast of a whistle, deckhands rushed up to the mids, snatched away
their coffee cups, rammed hard round hats and small silvery spectacles
designed by Stephen on their heads, and stood back. The midshipmen twirled
their
forefingers and gave a thumbs-up, a crewman raised his right arm, and two
burly Able Seamen picked up the reefers and launched them at the ratlines.
They swarmed upwards.

"They're off, Sir."

"Very good, Tom."

A short while later there came a shout.

"Conn, Masthead: one sail, bearing two-five-zero, range four, closing.
Topsails only."

"Evasive, Mr. Pullings."

A short while later, they were ghosting along behind the other vessel,
murky in the fog.

"Tom, I believe we may... - er, why is Mr. Martin shouting 'Call the
ball' at that bird ?"

"Truth to tell, Sir, I'm not entirely sure."

They watched with puzzled frowns as the Revd. Martin dropped his red and
green lanterns and screamed "Wave off! Wave off!" at a small fat quail gliding
down towards the deck. It clipped the taffrail, tripped nose down onto the
deck and skidded forward to collide with Jack's feet, smoking gently. Martin
grabbed it, took a roll of paper off its leg, and gave it to Jack before
hurrying downstairs with the bird, comforting it. The paper was labelled
"Admiralty Mk.IIIA Quail-Type Long-Range Communications Asset, HM Govt
Property"
and was crammed with coded gibberish. Jack shook his head resignedly and took
it
below. Damned newfangled devices.

As he entered his cabin an arm shot round his neck and squeezed his
windpipe, and an uncouth voice breathed in his ear:

"I can break your spine in three places from here with my left kneecap.
The desk is booby-trapped, I know 15 martial arts, I've just poured
gunpowder down your shirt and I can light a match with my bare teeth. You can
call
me Clark - John Clark. It's not my real name, but you'll be dead before you
find out."

"Look - for God's sake, Killick."

"Oh. Beg parding, Cap'n. I was just guarding these here wicked private papers,
and I didn't knows it was you."

"Christ. Well, here's another one. Take it down to my clerk, and if I
catch you at my Madeira again..."

There came another shout from above. The ship in front was heeling to
starboard unexpectedly - a French manoeuvre known to the Royal Navy as 'Crazy
Yves'. Jack rushed on deck, shouting 'back the foretopsail!'.

"Conn, Masthead: we're cavitating - the sails are flapping! He can hear
us!"

A shot boomed out from in front. It had been meant as a warning, but a
ball came skipping over the water, ricocheted off a tall wave, and smashed
Jack's quarter-gallery to smithereens. He looked down mournfully at the
remains
of his place of ease drifting away in the swell, reflecting that only that
morning he'd taken half a dozen of the Doctor's special blue pills. That did
it.

"Bonden, stand by to establish contact with submarine assets," he barked.
"Tom, in the Doctor's absence please ask Mr. Martin to arm the ASLOTH
launcher."

Bonden ran below and leaned out of a gunport. Below him the Doctor's wooden
submersible, copied after his earlier model used in the Red Sea, bobbed
a few feet under the surface. Above him he heard the cry, "Bonden, activate
the Ultra Low Frequency underwater communications device". He promptly
picked up a bargepole and rapped smartly three times on the top of the wooden
diving
bell.

Inside, Stephen and Padeen heard the thump - thump - thump. "Is there to be
no peace in this miserable war-torn world ?" fumed Stephen, flinging aside the
squid he'd been examining. There was a sad wet squelch. "Very well - hand me
that cursed book", He rifled through His Majesty's Admiralty's General
Printed Instructions on the Deployment of Underwater Vehicles, 3rd Edition.
"Three taps - STAND OUT FROM UNDER, WE'RE SINKING - no, no, wrong page -
ah, here we are: BY THE AUTHORITY INVESTED IN ME BY THEIR LORDSHIPS, I DO
REQUIRE AND DIRECT YOU TO CONDUCT UNRESTRICTED WARFARE AGAINST ALL
SURFACE TARGETS IN VICINITY, OR ANSWER TO THE CONTRARY AT YOUR PERIL. RULES OF
ENGAGEMENT OPTION BRAVO. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. - good heavens, all that
from three taps, for all love ?"

"The English are a verbose race, so they are." replied Padeen in his native
fluent Gaelic, climbing on to his geared pedals. Outside a propellor
began to turn, and they moved off. Operation SCREAMING JELLYFISH was underway.

Back on deck, Jack brought the ship about and gave the order to fire.
His Gunner had been a gunner's mate under him on board the old Worcester,
and had unfortunately been deeply impressed by the firework powder that Jack
had used for practice firing. Nowadays he had to be constantly checked
from loading the ship with flares, flying rockets, sparklers, and
Catherine wheels. The results of his last run ashore now became sadly apparent
as
the guns went off and the air between the two ships filled with spinning,
whistling, dazzling projectiles in assorted colours; great gushes and
fountains
of sparks; shots that flew up to a great height and then divided into
countless lovely flames, and one that exploded into hundreds of tiny flares on
cute little parachutes. The Gunner giggled and rolled around on the deck,
chuckling and sucking his thumb. His mate hurried him off to feed him
more of his regular dried herb pills.

Meanwhile, Martin had finished his preparations. He patted the hollow
projectile, and watched as it was loaded into a stumpy gun on the
forecastle. There was a loud bang, and the secret weapon was on its way. It
soared
out over the water. As it reached its apogee, the protective shroud fell
away and the warhead got its first view of the enemy. Wearing little
protective
goggles, it peered around as its canvas canopy opened. The sloth settled
gently on the deck, unseen, and began to gnaw away at the rigging.

Jack stood on his quarterdeck and gazed through his telescope as his elite
forces did their worst. The enemy's masts tumbled in a confusion of
sails as the sloth triumphed. The Gunner's special unauthorised flare-shower
set
the whole mass on fire. Finally the diving bell with its specially adapted
hull-mounted surgical bone-drill sent the lot bubbling into the sea. The
Gunner's last shot detonated in a carefully timed shower of delayed flares,
leaving the words THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING TO THE SHOW HAPPY GUY FAWKES DAY
GOD SAVE
THE KING AND PARLIAMENT hanging in letters of fire above the wreckage.

The clerk came running up on deck, waving his decoded message. "To Captn
Stealthy comma at sea stop", it read. "Be advised my brother Heneage in
your immediate area comma carrying despatches for you stop convey my regards
Doctor Maturin stop Melville comma FstSeaLd stop".

"Er..." said Jack, looking uncertainly at the sodden splinters drifting
past him. The fog rolled in.

[Marketing Director to Editorial team, MEMO: any chance of getting Craig
Thomas instead ?]"



On Thu Oct 19, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>That makes sense.  When I read a story where the author gets the computer details right, at the very least the missing mistakes don't distract me from the story and at best I actually enjoy finding a writer who took the trouble.  I read one of those just last week, now if I can just remember whose ... oh, I'll bet it was Twice Shy by Dick Francis.  And I remember grimacing at some of the computer concepts attempted in the beginning of The Hunt for Red October, although in the end I raved over it.

>(I'd told my librarian I'd been caught up in submarine stories lately, and she recommended THfRO.  I came back raving, as I said, and she told me "Yeah, that books been kind of a sleeper; it's been around for about two years and nobody's noticed it, but suddenly it's getting attention".  After that I read all the Tom-Clancy stories, but within a few months I had to start getting on a waiting list.

>Max, if Grisham were already an adored favorite I might not want to know—or maybe I would—but as it is I'd rather hear the facts than revere the author:  Care to let me in on one or three of the fatal legal-procedure flaws?  (I have a private bet with myself that one of them might be the bit in The Rainmaker where the insurance company "complied" with the discovery requirements by handing over unintelligible computer reports several feet thick, and during the trial the lawyer handed the same printout to an executive of the corporate defendant on the witness stand and asked him several questions based on that report, which the executive of course couldn't answer.  I thought it was a lovely move at the time, but later I decided it's probably an old trick and therefore no longer used.)

>On Thu Oct 19, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>If, like me, you are a lawyer then the plot holes in Grisham are fatal.

>>Clancy is like George Martin, just dense enough to keep my attention without requiring real thought.

>>On Wed Oct 18, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>Funny—I can't recall a Tom-Clancy movie that satisfied me, certainly including Hunt for Red October.  I probably would have liked it better had the book not spoiled me for the movie.

>>>I used to think the problem was simply that books always spoil me for the movie, but I've found a few exceptions.  Mostly when movies change the plot, I get all chuffed about it.  I can live with Liv Tyler as an elf, but that whole added bit with Strider falling off a cliff seemed like a stupidly unnecessary embellishment to me—and I was wroth, very wroth when Faramir dragged Frodo and Sam all the way back to Osgiliath before finally releasing him with that fatuous line "I think at last we understand each other, Frodo Baggins".  The recent attempts at Narnia stories I accorded one horrified look and then turned away in disgust.  And so on.

>>>But except for a few movies that clung closely to the book (for example Where Eagles Dare and the Harry-Potter series), the ones I enjoyed seem to be where the plots changed so much it was almost a different story.  Jaws wasn't much like the book, but they made a good (different) story out of it.  Likewise Jurassic Park.

>>>I'll risk the pedantry just long enough to ask: David Niven good or bad?  Oh, wait, Larry Niven!  Yes, I'm always getting those two turned around; sorry about that.

>>>On Wed Oct 18, NiceRedTrousers wrote
>>>------------------------------------
>>>>The thought of David Niven and Jerry Pournelle collaborating made me chuckle: "The Moon's a Balloon" with added Moties.
>>>>Larry Niven on the other hand...but I'm being pedantic - sorry!

>>>>I do like Niven and Pournelle, and I agree about Heinlein.  When I was devouring his books in my teens I'd read anything, even if I did struggle a bit with Stranger in a Strange Land and some of his later works.

>>>>I'm a big Neal Stephenson fan - Cryptonomicon, The Baroque Cycle (great for history buffs), but I have to grind through some of his more recent stuff.

>>>>I can't say I've read any John Grisham.  I think the marketing of the blockbuster films may have put me off, but then it didn't put me off Tom Clancy so maybe I should give him a go.

>>>>On Tue Oct 17, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>>--------------------------------
>>>>>We were speaking of Alistair MacLean recently, who (in not just my opinion) started out well and trailed off miserably.  I'd say Peter Benchley did the same; I loved Jaws and The Deep, positively adored The Girl of the Sea of Cortez, and as I recall Jaws 2 was good—I'm talking about the books, not the movies—but Beast was pretty bad and White Shark was just awful.

>>>>>Now, I have a different problem with John Grisham:  Some of his novels I can't put down, and some I can't finish.  I don't think it's a matter of inconsistent quality, just that some appeal to me and some don't.  I'm curious about whether I'm the only one.

>>>>>In the first category, "Couldn't put it down", I'd put A Time to Kill, The Runaway Jury and The Client, also maybe The Rainmaker. Couldn't finish The Star Chamber, I can't identify why.  I finished The King of Torts and Gray Mountain, but I wish I hadn't; they were far too preachy, with one-dimensional villains both individual and corporate.  I just finished the first Theodore Boone, Kid Lawyer and plan to read more.  (I never did give up reading juvenile novels, and don't plan stop now.)  I see that there are a lot more on his list; guess I'll have to sample more of them.

>>>>>With most authors I love, once I find out about them I'm willing to read anything they write.  Elizabeth Moon and Robert Heinlein leap to mind; also any collaboration by David Niven and Jerry Pournelle, any Kipling story ... well, never mind.  The point is that for some reason John Grisham writes novels I love and novels I hate.  Anyone else have that reaction?  And can anyone identify why?


Message 50e5a913p13-10154-1185-07.htm, number 128206, was posted on Fri Oct 20 at 19:45:11
Neson’s chelengk recreated

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Maev Kennedy: One of Admiral Lord Nelson’s most treasured possessions, which must have provoked stifled giggles when he switched on the clockwork mechanism and the great diamond in his hat rotated, has been recreated from the original designs more than half a century after it was stolen. The replica jewel – so delicate it needed emergency overnight repairs before the display – will be at the National Museum of the Royal Navy in Portsmouth Dockyard from 21 October – Trafalgar Day.

It will be shown beside a black felt cocked hat, identical to those in which Nelson wore it, newly made by the admiral’s hatters, Lock & Co, which still keep his measurements in their London workshops. The Chelengk, a plume of more than 300 diamonds, was presented by Sultan Selim III of Turkey after Nelson’s victory at the Battle of the Nile in 1798. It was reputedly taken from his turban and said to be the first such decoration presented to a non-Muslim . .

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/20/lord-admiral-horatio-nelson-rotating-gems-chelengk-recreated-decades-after-original-stol


Message aee38da600A-10155-570-07.htm, number 128207, was posted on Sat Oct 21 at 09:29:51
"....my own house may be unswept, but it IS my house...."

Hoyden


Madrid to impose control over Catalonia?

www.nbcnews.com/news/world/spain-s-pm-rajoy-removes-catalonia-leader-will-call-regional-n812921


Message 4747f4808HW-10155-647+1a.htm, number 128208, was posted on Sat Oct 21 at 10:47:30
in reply to c61740a78YV-10154-845+1b.htm

Brava!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Can you claim credit for this, Jan, or did you find it somewhere?

On Fri Oct 20, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>"That well known publication, the London Literary Review, today carries
>an item and extract on the new book.

>"Due to other writing commitments, Patrick O'Brian has engaged his close
>friend Tom Clancy to ghost-write his next book. An extract is printed below.
>At first this may seem an unlikely pairing; it dates back to a review by
>Mr.O'Brian of Mr. Clancy's book 'The Sum of All Fears', at which Clancy took
>offence and called his elderly fellow author out for a duel. This was settled
>by each carrying his trademark weapon - an antique silver-handled flintlock
>pistol for O'Brian, and a laser-guided anti-tank bazooka with computerised
>wind-compensation and terrain-following guidance system for Clancy (both
>obtained by mail-order from Sears). The duel resulted in minor flesh wounds
>for both and a rather singed appearance to O'Brian's hair, at which point
>honour was satisfied and a firm friendship ensued. We are honoured to print a
>small part of the resulting book."

>*** NORTH ATLANTIC, 0900 ZULU, 13 DECEMBER 1803

>In the grey cold fog, the silent, sleek, deadly hull of the HMS Stealthy
>cut through the waters. On her quarterdeck Jack Aubrey peered about him
>through the mist.

>"What have we got up, Tom ?"

>"Sir, I have two lookouts at Combat Mast Patrol on the fore and main
>crosstrees, and two midshipmen spotted on the deck at Plus Five readiness
>with orders for the tops."

>"Get 'em up, Mr. Pullings"

>At the blast of a whistle, deckhands rushed up to the mids, snatched away
>their coffee cups, rammed hard round hats and small silvery spectacles
>designed by Stephen on their heads, and stood back. The midshipmen twirled
>their
>forefingers and gave a thumbs-up, a crewman raised his right arm, and two
>burly Able Seamen picked up the reefers and launched them at the ratlines.
>They swarmed upwards.

>"They're off, Sir."

>"Very good, Tom."

>A short while later there came a shout.

>"Conn, Masthead: one sail, bearing two-five-zero, range four, closing.
>Topsails only."

>"Evasive, Mr. Pullings."

>A short while later, they were ghosting along behind the other vessel,
>murky in the fog.

>"Tom, I believe we may... - er, why is Mr. Martin shouting 'Call the
>ball' at that bird ?"

>"Truth to tell, Sir, I'm not entirely sure."

>They watched with puzzled frowns as the Revd. Martin dropped his red and
>green lanterns and screamed "Wave off! Wave off!" at a small fat quail gliding
>down towards the deck. It clipped the taffrail, tripped nose down onto the
>deck and skidded forward to collide with Jack's feet, smoking gently. Martin
>grabbed it, took a roll of paper off its leg, and gave it to Jack before
>hurrying downstairs with the bird, comforting it. The paper was labelled
>"Admiralty Mk.IIIA Quail-Type Long-Range Communications Asset, HM Govt
>Property"
>and was crammed with coded gibberish. Jack shook his head resignedly and took
>it
>below. Damned newfangled devices.

>As he entered his cabin an arm shot round his neck and squeezed his
>windpipe, and an uncouth voice breathed in his ear:

>"I can break your spine in three places from here with my left kneecap.
>The desk is booby-trapped, I know 15 martial arts, I've just poured
>gunpowder down your shirt and I can light a match with my bare teeth. You can
>call
>me Clark - John Clark. It's not my real name, but you'll be dead before you
>find out."

>"Look - for God's sake, Killick."

>"Oh. Beg parding, Cap'n. I was just guarding these here wicked private papers,
>and I didn't knows it was you."

>"Christ. Well, here's another one. Take it down to my clerk, and if I
>catch you at my Madeira again..."

>There came another shout from above. The ship in front was heeling to
>starboard unexpectedly - a French manoeuvre known to the Royal Navy as 'Crazy
>Yves'. Jack rushed on deck, shouting 'back the foretopsail!'.

>"Conn, Masthead: we're cavitating - the sails are flapping! He can hear
>us!"

>A shot boomed out from in front. It had been meant as a warning, but a
>ball came skipping over the water, ricocheted off a tall wave, and smashed
>Jack's quarter-gallery to smithereens. He looked down mournfully at the
>remains
>of his place of ease drifting away in the swell, reflecting that only that
>morning he'd taken half a dozen of the Doctor's special blue pills. That did
>it.

>"Bonden, stand by to establish contact with submarine assets," he barked.
>"Tom, in the Doctor's absence please ask Mr. Martin to arm the ASLOTH
>launcher."

>Bonden ran below and leaned out of a gunport. Below him the Doctor's wooden
>submersible, copied after his earlier model used in the Red Sea, bobbed
>a few feet under the surface. Above him he heard the cry, "Bonden, activate
>the Ultra Low Frequency underwater communications device". He promptly
>picked up a bargepole and rapped smartly three times on the top of the wooden
>diving
>bell.

>Inside, Stephen and Padeen heard the thump - thump - thump. "Is there to be
>no peace in this miserable war-torn world ?" fumed Stephen, flinging aside the
>squid he'd been examining. There was a sad wet squelch. "Very well - hand me
>that cursed book", He rifled through His Majesty's Admiralty's General
>Printed Instructions on the Deployment of Underwater Vehicles, 3rd Edition.
>"Three taps - STAND OUT FROM UNDER, WE'RE SINKING - no, no, wrong page -
>ah, here we are: BY THE AUTHORITY INVESTED IN ME BY THEIR LORDSHIPS, I DO
>REQUIRE AND DIRECT YOU TO CONDUCT UNRESTRICTED WARFARE AGAINST ALL
>SURFACE TARGETS IN VICINITY, OR ANSWER TO THE CONTRARY AT YOUR PERIL. RULES OF
>ENGAGEMENT OPTION BRAVO. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. - good heavens, all that
>from three taps, for all love ?"

>"The English are a verbose race, so they are." replied Padeen in his native
>fluent Gaelic, climbing on to his geared pedals. Outside a propellor
>began to turn, and they moved off. Operation SCREAMING JELLYFISH was underway.

>Back on deck, Jack brought the ship about and gave the order to fire.
>His Gunner had been a gunner's mate under him on board the old Worcester,
>and had unfortunately been deeply impressed by the firework powder that Jack
>had used for practice firing. Nowadays he had to be constantly checked
>from loading the ship with flares, flying rockets, sparklers, and
>Catherine wheels. The results of his last run ashore now became sadly apparent
>as
>the guns went off and the air between the two ships filled with spinning,
>whistling, dazzling projectiles in assorted colours; great gushes and
>fountains
>of sparks; shots that flew up to a great height and then divided into
>countless lovely flames, and one that exploded into hundreds of tiny flares on
>cute little parachutes. The Gunner giggled and rolled around on the deck,
>chuckling and sucking his thumb. His mate hurried him off to feed him
>more of his regular dried herb pills.

>Meanwhile, Martin had finished his preparations. He patted the hollow
>projectile, and watched as it was loaded into a stumpy gun on the
>forecastle. There was a loud bang, and the secret weapon was on its way. It
>soared
>out over the water. As it reached its apogee, the protective shroud fell
>away and the warhead got its first view of the enemy. Wearing little
>protective
>goggles, it peered around as its canvas canopy opened. The sloth settled
>gently on the deck, unseen, and began to gnaw away at the rigging.

>Jack stood on his quarterdeck and gazed through his telescope as his elite
>forces did their worst. The enemy's masts tumbled in a confusion of
>sails as the sloth triumphed. The Gunner's special unauthorised flare-shower
>set
>the whole mass on fire. Finally the diving bell with its specially adapted
>hull-mounted surgical bone-drill sent the lot bubbling into the sea. The
>Gunner's last shot detonated in a carefully timed shower of delayed flares,
>leaving the words THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING TO THE SHOW HAPPY GUY FAWKES DAY
>GOD SAVE
>THE KING AND PARLIAMENT hanging in letters of fire above the wreckage.

>The clerk came running up on deck, waving his decoded message. "To Captn
>Stealthy comma at sea stop", it read. "Be advised my brother Heneage in
>your immediate area comma carrying despatches for you stop convey my regards
>Doctor Maturin stop Melville comma FstSeaLd stop".

>"Er..." said Jack, looking uncertainly at the sodden splinters drifting
>past him. The fog rolled in.

>[Marketing Director to Editorial team, MEMO: any chance of getting Craig
>Thomas instead ?]"


Message c61740a78YV-10155-833+1a.htm, number 128209, was posted on Sat Oct 21 at 13:52:45
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10155-647+1a.htm

Not I

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


I only re-post it on occasion.  It comes from here:www.hmssurprise.org/hunt-red-cacafuego


On Sat Oct 21, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Can you claim credit for this, Jan, or did you find it somewhere?

>On Fri Oct 20, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>"That well known publication, the London Literary Review, today carries
>>an item and extract on the new book.

>>"Due to other writing commitments, Patrick O'Brian has engaged his close
>>friend Tom Clancy to ghost-write his next book. An extract is printed below.
>>At first this may seem an unlikely pairing; it dates back to a review by
>>Mr.O'Brian of Mr. Clancy's book 'The Sum of All Fears', at which Clancy took
>>offence and called his elderly fellow author out for a duel. This was settled
>>by each carrying his trademark weapon - an antique silver-handled flintlock
>>pistol for O'Brian, and a laser-guided anti-tank bazooka with computerised
>>wind-compensation and terrain-following guidance system for Clancy (both
>>obtained by mail-order from Sears). The duel resulted in minor flesh wounds
>>for both and a rather singed appearance to O'Brian's hair, at which point
>>honour was satisfied and a firm friendship ensued. We are honoured to print a
>>small part of the resulting book."

>>*** NORTH ATLANTIC, 0900 ZULU, 13 DECEMBER 1803

>>In the grey cold fog, the silent, sleek, deadly hull of the HMS Stealthy
>>cut through the waters. On her quarterdeck Jack Aubrey peered about him
>>through the mist.

>>"What have we got up, Tom ?"

>>"Sir, I have two lookouts at Combat Mast Patrol on the fore and main
>>crosstrees, and two midshipmen spotted on the deck at Plus Five readiness
>>with orders for the tops."

>>"Get 'em up, Mr. Pullings"

>>At the blast of a whistle, deckhands rushed up to the mids, snatched away
>>their coffee cups, rammed hard round hats and small silvery spectacles
>>designed by Stephen on their heads, and stood back. The midshipmen twirled
>>their
>>forefingers and gave a thumbs-up, a crewman raised his right arm, and two
>>burly Able Seamen picked up the reefers and launched them at the ratlines.
>>They swarmed upwards.

>>"They're off, Sir."

>>"Very good, Tom."

>>A short while later there came a shout.

>>"Conn, Masthead: one sail, bearing two-five-zero, range four, closing.
>>Topsails only."

>>"Evasive, Mr. Pullings."

>>A short while later, they were ghosting along behind the other vessel,
>>murky in the fog.

>>"Tom, I believe we may... - er, why is Mr. Martin shouting 'Call the
>>ball' at that bird ?"

>>"Truth to tell, Sir, I'm not entirely sure."

>>They watched with puzzled frowns as the Revd. Martin dropped his red and
>>green lanterns and screamed "Wave off! Wave off!" at a small fat quail gliding
>>down towards the deck. It clipped the taffrail, tripped nose down onto the
>>deck and skidded forward to collide with Jack's feet, smoking gently. Martin
>>grabbed it, took a roll of paper off its leg, and gave it to Jack before
>>hurrying downstairs with the bird, comforting it. The paper was labelled
>>"Admiralty Mk.IIIA Quail-Type Long-Range Communications Asset, HM Govt
>>Property"
>>and was crammed with coded gibberish. Jack shook his head resignedly and took
>>it
>>below. Damned newfangled devices.

>>As he entered his cabin an arm shot round his neck and squeezed his
>>windpipe, and an uncouth voice breathed in his ear:

>>"I can break your spine in three places from here with my left kneecap.
>>The desk is booby-trapped, I know 15 martial arts, I've just poured
>>gunpowder down your shirt and I can light a match with my bare teeth. You can
>>call
>>me Clark - John Clark. It's not my real name, but you'll be dead before you
>>find out."

>>"Look - for God's sake, Killick."

>>"Oh. Beg parding, Cap'n. I was just guarding these here wicked private papers,
>>and I didn't knows it was you."

>>"Christ. Well, here's another one. Take it down to my clerk, and if I
>>catch you at my Madeira again..."

>>There came another shout from above. The ship in front was heeling to
>>starboard unexpectedly - a French manoeuvre known to the Royal Navy as 'Crazy
>>Yves'. Jack rushed on deck, shouting 'back the foretopsail!'.

>>"Conn, Masthead: we're cavitating - the sails are flapping! He can hear
>>us!"

>>A shot boomed out from in front. It had been meant as a warning, but a
>>ball came skipping over the water, ricocheted off a tall wave, and smashed
>>Jack's quarter-gallery to smithereens. He looked down mournfully at the
>>remains
>>of his place of ease drifting away in the swell, reflecting that only that
>>morning he'd taken half a dozen of the Doctor's special blue pills. That did
>>it.

>>"Bonden, stand by to establish contact with submarine assets," he barked.
>>"Tom, in the Doctor's absence please ask Mr. Martin to arm the ASLOTH
>>launcher."

>>Bonden ran below and leaned out of a gunport. Below him the Doctor's wooden
>>submersible, copied after his earlier model used in the Red Sea, bobbed
>>a few feet under the surface. Above him he heard the cry, "Bonden, activate
>>the Ultra Low Frequency underwater communications device". He promptly
>>picked up a bargepole and rapped smartly three times on the top of the wooden
>>diving
>>bell.

>>Inside, Stephen and Padeen heard the thump - thump - thump. "Is there to be
>>no peace in this miserable war-torn world ?" fumed Stephen, flinging aside the
>>squid he'd been examining. There was a sad wet squelch. "Very well - hand me
>>that cursed book", He rifled through His Majesty's Admiralty's General
>>Printed Instructions on the Deployment of Underwater Vehicles, 3rd Edition.
>>"Three taps - STAND OUT FROM UNDER, WE'RE SINKING - no, no, wrong page -
>>ah, here we are: BY THE AUTHORITY INVESTED IN ME BY THEIR LORDSHIPS, I DO
>>REQUIRE AND DIRECT YOU TO CONDUCT UNRESTRICTED WARFARE AGAINST ALL
>>SURFACE TARGETS IN VICINITY, OR ANSWER TO THE CONTRARY AT YOUR PERIL. RULES OF
>>ENGAGEMENT OPTION BRAVO. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. - good heavens, all that
>>from three taps, for all love ?"

>>"The English are a verbose race, so they are." replied Padeen in his native
>>fluent Gaelic, climbing on to his geared pedals. Outside a propellor
>>began to turn, and they moved off. Operation SCREAMING JELLYFISH was underway.

>>Back on deck, Jack brought the ship about and gave the order to fire.
>>His Gunner had been a gunner's mate under him on board the old Worcester,
>>and had unfortunately been deeply impressed by the firework powder that Jack
>>had used for practice firing. Nowadays he had to be constantly checked
>>from loading the ship with flares, flying rockets, sparklers, and
>>Catherine wheels. The results of his last run ashore now became sadly apparent
>>as
>>the guns went off and the air between the two ships filled with spinning,
>>whistling, dazzling projectiles in assorted colours; great gushes and
>>fountains
>>of sparks; shots that flew up to a great height and then divided into
>>countless lovely flames, and one that exploded into hundreds of tiny flares on
>>cute little parachutes. The Gunner giggled and rolled around on the deck,
>>chuckling and sucking his thumb. His mate hurried him off to feed him
>>more of his regular dried herb pills.

>>Meanwhile, Martin had finished his preparations. He patted the hollow
>>projectile, and watched as it was loaded into a stumpy gun on the
>>forecastle. There was a loud bang, and the secret weapon was on its way. It
>>soared
>>out over the water. As it reached its apogee, the protective shroud fell
>>away and the warhead got its first view of the enemy. Wearing little
>>protective
>>goggles, it peered around as its canvas canopy opened. The sloth settled
>>gently on the deck, unseen, and began to gnaw away at the rigging.

>>Jack stood on his quarterdeck and gazed through his telescope as his elite
>>forces did their worst. The enemy's masts tumbled in a confusion of
>>sails as the sloth triumphed. The Gunner's special unauthorised flare-shower
>>set
>>the whole mass on fire. Finally the diving bell with its specially adapted
>>hull-mounted surgical bone-drill sent the lot bubbling into the sea. The
>>Gunner's last shot detonated in a carefully timed shower of delayed flares,
>>leaving the words THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING TO THE SHOW HAPPY GUY FAWKES DAY
>>GOD SAVE
>>THE KING AND PARLIAMENT hanging in letters of fire above the wreckage.

>>The clerk came running up on deck, waving his decoded message. "To Captn
>>Stealthy comma at sea stop", it read. "Be advised my brother Heneage in
>>your immediate area comma carrying despatches for you stop convey my regards
>>Doctor Maturin stop Melville comma FstSeaLd stop".

>>"Er..." said Jack, looking uncertainly at the sodden splinters drifting
>>past him. The fog rolled in.

>>[Marketing Director to Editorial team, MEMO: any chance of getting Craig
>>Thomas instead ?]"


Message 6b4d5575wd5-10156-769-90.htm, number 128210, was posted on Sun Oct 22 at 12:48:59
Across the ladder

Scourge's Housemate
perhaps200@gmail.com


This would have been beyond Stephen...me too!

m.facebook.com/home.php


Message 6b4d5575wd5-10156-769+07.htm, number 128210, was edited on Sun Oct 22 at 13:10:13
and replaces message 6b4d5575wd5-10156-769-90.htm

Oops...sorry! No message

Scourge's Housemate
perhaps200@gmail.com


Uh...no message

[ This message was edited on Sun Oct 22 by the author ]


Message 4747f4808HW-10159-645+52.htm, number 128211, was posted on Wed Oct 25 at 10:45:33
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10151-817-90.htm

Re: The Butchering Art by Lindsey Fitzharris – grisly medicine

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Finally got around to reading this.  It is no slam at Chrístõ, and may not be at the author, but I think whoever wrote that subtitle exaggerates.  Surgery is still, by definition, cutting and sawing, still as "brutal" and "grisly" as before Lister's discovery; it's emotion, not reason, that leads to writing that he "brought centuries of savagery, sawing and gangrene to an end".

On Tue Oct 17, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>'In The Butchering Art, historian Lindsey Fitzharris recreates a critical turning point in the history of medicine, when Joseph Lister transformed surgery from a brutal, harrowing practice to the safe, vaunted profession we know today.'
>www.penguin.co.nz/books/the-butchering-art-joseph-listers-quest-to-transform-the-brutal-world-of-victorian-medicine-97

>'Review: The Butchering Art: Joseph Lister’s Quest to Transform the Grisly World of Victorian Medicine – Lindsey Fitzharris’s story of Lister’s battle to introduce hygiene to the operating theatre makes compelling reading'
>www.theguardian.com/books/2017/oct/09/butchering-art-review-joseph-listers-quest-grisly-world-victorian-medicine-lin

>Profile: www.theguardian.com/books/2017/oct/12/the-butchering-art-by-lindsey-fitzharris-review
>www.drlindseyfitzharris.com/

>Dr Lindsey Fitzharris will be touring the US from October 17th to November 5th, beginning at the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia and ending at Coney Island in New York City. Go to www.drlindseyfitzharris.com/ to see full schedule.


Message 50e5a913p13-10160-370-90.htm, number 128212, was posted on Thu Oct 26 at 06:10:16
The greatest Catalan of all in British history

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘Sir, The recent erudite correspondence* concerning the importance of Catalans in British history inexplicably omits the greatest of all: Dr Stephen Maturin, the British Navy surgeon, natural philosopher, intelligence agent and accomplished cellist, born of an illicit liaison between a Catalan lady and an Irish soldier. Dr Maturin and his “personal friend” Captain Jack Aubrey were instrumental in maintaining British honour and naval supremacy around the globe through the Napoleonic wars. While thus engaged, they also found time to play violin and cello duets (Corelli being a particular favourite) and engage in multiple affairs of the heart.

Their achievements provided the basis for Patrick O’Brian’s 20 completed volumes (plus one published posthumously) — among the greatest seafaring novels ever written.

I hope you will find space to correct this serious omission.’

From Malcolm Harker, Seattle, WA, US, October 25

https://www.ft.com/content/d0d43aae-b81b-11e7-8c12-5661783e5589
………………….

* An independent Catalonia is in Britain’s best interests
From Charles Drace-Francis, St Monans, Fife, UK, October 17
https://www.ft.com/content/4c3581aa-b261-11e7-a398-73d59db9e399

Episodes in Catalan history were not so simple
From David Rodríguez Vega, London, UK, October 23, 2017
https://www.ft.com/content/dfe07eda-b588-11e7-aa26-bb002965bce8


Message 4747f4808HW-10164-964-30.htm, number 128213, was posted on Mon Oct 30 at 16:06:37
So did they mean it when they declared themselves independent?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


From an NPR article: "On Monday morning, Catalan officials showed up at their offices — and, in some cases, were escorted out by police just minutes later."

I must not opine on whether Catalunya should be independent of Spain; I'm bigoted by being a Stephen-Maturin fan.  But it seems to me that if you declare your independence and then won't resort to violence to back it up, then your so-called "declaration" was always going to be meaningless.  Here come some Catalan public servants to put in a day at the office in defiance of the Spanish orders, and "were escorted out by police".  Were there no Catalan officials, including Catalan police, who would prevent or at least attempt to prevent that?  If so, then the only side willing to employ force is the automatic winner—and all the posturing in the months leading up to last week's declaration of independence was just a hopeful bluff that got called.  Or am I missing something?

---

Separate question on this piece of the article: "On Sunday, about 300,000 pro-Spain supporters filled the capital city's streets — it was one of biggest shows of force by the so-called silent majority," Benavides reports. "Two people were allegedly injured before and after the protests as ultra-right groups joined the demonstration."

As a member of what is usually called the Right, myself, I'm used to "right" being offered as a condemnation, and I suppose it was meant so in this case too.  But it isn't clear to me whether "ultra-right" groups would be in favor of Catalonian independence or Spanish unity.  In the American rebellion against England it was the leftists who were for independence and the right who resisted it.  So were the ultra-right groups in this case those who were demonstrating for Spain?


Message 4747f4808HW-10164-964+1e.htm, number 128213, was edited on Wed Nov 1 at 09:29:43
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10164-964-30.htm

So did they mean it when they declared themselves independent?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


From an NPR article: "On Monday morning, Catalan officials showed up at their offices — and, in some cases, were escorted out by police just minutes later."

I must not opine on whether Catalunya should be independent of Spain; my only datum is the opinion of Stephen Maturin.  But it seems to me that if you declare your independence and then won't resort to violence to back it up, then your so-called "declaration" was always going to be meaningless.  Here come some Catalan public servants to put in a day at the office in defiance of the Spanish orders, and "were escorted out by police".  Were there no Catalan officials, including Catalan police, who would prevent or at least attempt to prevent that?  If so, then the only side willing to employ force is the automatic winner—and all the posturing in the months leading up to last week's declaration of independence was just a hopeful bluff that got called.  Or am I missing something?

---

Separate question on this piece of the article: "On Sunday, about 300,000 pro-Spain supporters filled the capital city's streets — it was one of biggest shows of force by the so-called silent majority," Benavides reports. "Two people were allegedly injured before and after the protests as ultra-right groups joined the demonstration."

As a member of what is usually called the Right, myself, I'm used to "right" being offered as a condemnation, and I suppose it was meant so in this case too.  But it isn't clear to me whether "ultra-right" groups would be in favor of Catalonian independence or Spanish unity.  In the American rebellion against England it was the leftists who were for independence and the right who resisted it.  So I'm guessing the "ultra-right" groups in this case were demonstrating for Spain, but I'm not sure.  Anybody know?

[ This message was edited on Wed Nov 1 by the author ]


Message 4747f4808HW-10164-964+07.htm, number 128213, was edited on Wed Nov 1 at 09:30:18
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10164-964+1e.htm

So did they mean it when they declared themselves independent?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


From an NPR article: "On Monday morning, Catalan officials showed up at their offices — and, in some cases, were escorted out by police just minutes later."

I must not opine on whether Catalunya should be independent of Spain; my only datum is the desire of Stephen Maturin.  But it seems to me that if you declare your independence and then won't resort to violence to back it up, then your so-called "declaration" was always going to be meaningless.  Here come some Catalan public servants to put in a day at the office in defiance of the Spanish orders, and "were escorted out by police".  Were there no Catalan officials, including Catalan police, who would prevent or at least attempt to prevent that?  If so, then the only side willing to employ force is the automatic winner—and all the posturing in the months leading up to last week's declaration of independence was just a hopeful bluff that got called.  Or am I missing something?

---

Separate question on this piece of the article: "On Sunday, about 300,000 pro-Spain supporters filled the capital city's streets — it was one of biggest shows of force by the so-called silent majority," Benavides reports. "Two people were allegedly injured before and after the protests as ultra-right groups joined the demonstration."

As a member of what is usually called the Right, myself, I'm used to "right" being offered as a condemnation, and I suppose it was meant so in this case too.  But it isn't clear to me whether "ultra-right" groups would be in favor of Catalonian independence or Spanish unity.  In the American rebellion against England it was the leftists who were for independence and the right who resisted it.  So I'm guessing the "ultra-right" groups in this case were demonstrating for Spain, but I'm not sure.  Anybody know?

[ This message was edited on Wed Nov 1 by the author ]


Message 6cadb064gpf-10166-806+05.htm, number 128214, was posted on Wed Nov 1 at 13:26:33
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10164-964+07.htm

Re: So did they mean it when they declared themselves independent?

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


I'm not up at all on what's going on over there, Bob, but I honour those Catalan leaders for not opting for violence. I imagine it was calculated that way. As in, 'we will go this far, but not farther, because we don't want blood on our hands. Let the other side cross that moral divide if they wish.'
On the other hand, it would not surprise me at all to find out there is a 'radical' wing of the Catalan independence movement, building bombs in a basement somewhere. God help the innocent victims.

Three years ago I landed in the middle of an independence demonstration in Barcelona. The turnout was huge, and the mood was celebratory - not angry at all. It was a big happy party. I got the impression people were out to make a point, not looking for war.
I asked a bartender a couple of nights later what it was all about. She hesitated, then said, 'It's complicated,' which I thought a good start to an answer, but she got distracted by thirsty customers watching the Barcelona vs. Bilbao game and never finished her explanation.



On Wed Nov 1, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>From an NPR article: "On Monday morning, Catalan officials showed up at their offices — and, in some cases, were escorted out by police just minutes later."

>I must not opine on whether Catalunya should be independent of Spain; my only datum is the desire of Stephen Maturin.  But it seems to me that if you declare your independence and then won't resort to violence to back it up, then your so-called "declaration" was always going to be meaningless.  Here come some Catalan public servants to put in a day at the office in defiance of the Spanish orders, and "were escorted out by police".  Were there no Catalan officials, including Catalan police, who would prevent or at least attempt to prevent that?  If so, then the only side willing to employ force is the automatic winner—and all the posturing in the months leading up to last week's declaration of independence was just a hopeful bluff that got called.  Or am I missing something?

>---

>Separate question on this piece of the article: "On Sunday, about 300,000 pro-Spain supporters filled the capital city's streets — it was one of biggest shows of force by the so-called silent majority," Benavides reports. "Two people were allegedly injured before and after the protests as ultra-right groups joined the demonstration."

>As a member of what is usually called the Right, myself, I'm used to "right" being offered as a condemnation, and I suppose it was meant so in this case too.  But it isn't clear to me whether "ultra-right" groups would be in favor of Catalonian independence or Spanish unity.  In the American rebellion against England it was the leftists who were for independence and the right who resisted it.  So I'm guessing the "ultra-right" groups in this case were demonstrating for Spain, but I'm not sure.  Anybody know?


Message 4747f4808HW-10167-695+04.htm, number 128215, was posted on Thu Nov 2 at 11:34:41
in reply to 6cadb064gpf-10166-806+05.htm

Re^2: So did they mean it when they declared themselves independent?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I wondered whether my use of the word "violence" would attract unfavorable attention, but I decided to leave it in anyway.  You can say force is violence, or at the very least force is the threat of violence (depends on whether you would say that the police forcibly escorting out the Catalan office workers counted as "violence".)  However you figure it, it seems to me that there was never any way for Catalonia to be independent of Spain without actual force being applied.  It was on purpose that I likened it to America's rebellion against Britain:  Blood had to be shed for our revolution to succeed, and without it the Catalan declaration of independence is a bit of hopeful poetry without practical meaning.

So it seems to me, at least, though events may prove me wrong.  Perhaps the most amazing political miracle of the previous century is the breakup of the Soviet Union without warfare.  Could something similar happen here?

Ask it the other way around:  If the goal of Catalonian independence from Spain cannot be achieved without violence, is it right to surrender the former in order to avoid the latter?  I don't know, but as a general principle I do know that violence is not the worst possible thing, to be avoided at all cost.

On Wed Nov 1, Joe McWilliams wrote
----------------------------------
>I'm not up at all on what's going on over there, Bob, but I honour those Catalan leaders for not opting for violence. I imagine it was calculated that way. As in, 'we will go this far, but not farther, because we don't want blood on our hands. Let the other side cross that moral divide if they wish.'

>On the other hand, it would not surprise me at all to find out there is a 'radical' wing of the Catalan independence movement, building bombs in a basement somewhere. God help the innocent victims.

>Three years ago I landed in the middle of an independence demonstration in Barcelona. The turnout was huge, and the mood was celebratory - not angry at all. It was a big happy party. I got the impression people were out to make a point, not looking for war.

>I asked a bartender a couple of nights later what it was all about. She hesitated, then said, 'It's complicated,' which I thought a good start to an answer, but she got distracted by thirsty customers watching the Barcelona vs. Bilbao game and never finished her explanation.

>On Wed Nov 1, Bob Bridges wrote
>-------------------------------
>>From an NPR article: "On Monday morning, Catalan officials showed up at their offices — and, in some cases, were escorted out by police just minutes later."

>>I must not opine on whether Catalunya should be independent of Spain; my only datum is the desire of Stephen Maturin.  But it seems to me that if you declare your independence and then won't resort to violence to back it up, then your so-called "declaration" was always going to be meaningless.  Here come some Catalan public servants to put in a day at the office in defiance of the Spanish orders, and "were escorted out by police".  Were there no Catalan officials, including Catalan police, who would prevent or at least attempt to prevent that?  If so, then the only side willing to employ force is the automatic winner—and all the posturing in the months leading up to last week's declaration of independence was just a hopeful bluff that got called.  Or am I missing something?

>>---

>>Separate question on this piece of the article: "On Sunday, about 300,000 pro-Spain supporters filled the capital city's streets — it was one of biggest shows of force by the so-called silent majority," Benavides reports. "Two people were allegedly injured before and after the protests as ultra-right groups joined the demonstration."

>>As a member of what is usually called the Right, myself, I'm used to "right" being offered as a condemnation, and I suppose it was meant so in this case too.  But it isn't clear to me whether "ultra-right" groups would be in favor of Catalonian independence or Spanish unity.  In the American rebellion against England it was the leftists who were for independence and the right who resisted it.  So I'm guessing the "ultra-right" groups in this case were demonstrating for Spain, but I'm not sure.  Anybody know?


Message aeda85cb00A-10168-446-07.htm, number 128216, was posted on Fri Nov 3 at 07:25:36
“Polytropos“ The first translation of the “Odyssey” into English by a woman.

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2017/11/02/magazine/t

Message aeda85cb00A-10168-620-07.htm, number 128217, was posted on Fri Nov 3 at 10:19:50
Russia hacks GPS??

Hoyden


money.cnn.com/2017/11/03/technology/gps-spoofing-russia/index.html

Message 50e5a913p13-10168-865-90.htm, number 128218, was posted on Fri Nov 3 at 14:25:35
'Catalonia: civil disobedience and where the secession movement goes now'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This is a response to BB below which will vanish on Monday:

This essay by (I guess) a Catalan academic workingin Britain describes the rise of civil dispoedience:

. . the Plataforma de Afectados por la Hipoteca or Platform for the Mortgage-Affected (PAH). The outgoing disobedient Catalan government is a peculiar mix of anti-austerity parties, which have supported the PAH’s fight for people’s housing rights, and the Catalan establishment party that has generally opposed it.

The PAH was founded in Barcelona in 2009 in the aftermath of the financial crisis, which burst the Spanish housing bubble . . over the last eight years, the PAH has made civil disobedience acceptable to a large part of the Catalan population.

Nobody disputes that the Spanish law and constitution leave no room for secession. For the Spanish government, the buck stops with the constitution (though not when it comes to housing apparently). For the majority of Catalans, who want a proper referendum, this position lacks legitimacy because they see their right to decide their future as a higher form of morality and justice than the constitution. For many observers outside of Spain, a legal and orderly referendum also seems like a reasonable solution.

. . So the situation is ripe for widespread civil disobedience against the Spanish government in Catalonia. Unilateral declarations of independence, without a proper referendum, are unlikely to gain legitimacy for the Catalan government internationally. But, equally, more repression from the central government will likely reduce its legitimacy

Catalan institutions may now become laboratories for how to disobey state policies. For many Catalans, it will mean a form of resisting occupation. And if this disobedience remains civil and non-violent, it could well win the battle for international legitimacy, too.’

https://theconversation.com/catalonia-civil-disobedience-and-where-the-secession-movement-goes-now-86425


Message 50e5a913p13-10168-865+07.htm, number 128218, was edited on Fri Nov 3 at 20:47:01
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10168-865-90.htm

'Catalonia: civil disobedience and where the secession movement goes now'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This is a response to BB below which will vanish on Monday:

This essay by (I guess) a Catalan academic workingin Britain describes the rise of civil disobedience:

' . . The outgoing disobedient Catalan government is a peculiar mix of anti-austerity parties, which have supported the PAH’s (the Plataforma de Afectados por la Hipoteca's = the Platform for the Mortgage-Affected’s  fight for people’s housing rights, while the Catalan establishment parties has generally opposed it.

The PAH was founded in Barcelona in 2009 in the aftermath of the financial crisis, which burst the Spanish housing bubble . . over the last eight years, the PAH has made civil disobedience acceptable to a large part of the Catalan population.

Nobody disputes that the Spanish law and constitution leave no room for secession. For the Spanish government, the buck stops with the constitution (though not when it comes to housing apparently). For the majority of Catalans, who want a proper referendum, this position lacks legitimacy because they see their right to decide their future as a higher form of morality and justice than the constitution. For many observers outside of Spain, a legal and orderly referendum also seems like a reasonable solution.

. . So the situation is ripe for widespread civil disobedience against the Spanish government in Catalonia. Unilateral declarations of independence, without a proper referendum, are unlikely to gain legitimacy for the Catalan government internationally. But, equally, more repression from the central government will likely reduce its legitimacy

Catalan institutions may now become laboratories for how to disobey state policies. For many Catalans, it will mean a form of resisting occupation. And if this disobedience remains civil and non-violent, it could well win the battle for international legitimacy, too.’

theconversation.com/catalonia-civil-disobedience-and-where-the-secession-movement-goes-now-86425

[ This message was edited on Fri Nov 3 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10169-464+06.htm, number 128219, was posted on Sat Nov 4 at 07:43:56
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10168-865+07.htm

Non-violent resistance

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



Message 6242b0b700A-10169-1239+06.htm, number 128220, was posted on Sat Nov 4 at 20:41:30
in reply to aeda85cb00A-10168-446-07.htm

Re: “Polytropos“ The first translation of the “Odyssey” into English by a woman.

YA


Odyssey translated by a woman:

...."Ten years! How many times have I told you to stop and ASK FOR DIRECTIONS."

The End



On Fri Nov 3, Hoyden  wrote
---------------------------
>www.nytimes.com/2017/11/02/magazi


Message 47e54da900A-10170-976-07.htm, number 128221, was posted on Sun Nov 5 at 16:16:14
“....unmoored, heading to nowhere, while on deck, fire has broken out....”

Hoyden


“No One Knows What Britain Is Anymore“

nytimes.com/2017/11/04/sunday-review/britain-identity-crisis.html


Message 50e5a913p13-10172-655+05.htm, number 128222, was posted on Tue Nov 7 at 10:55:36
in reply to 47e54da900A-10170-976-07.htm

This is what matters just now

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
and here’s the vocabulary for talking about it:

The PB Cynic’s Dictionary especially complied for the times

A clinic: A place where “addicts” go to, to hide from the media.

A report: What a person who had nothing to with the original events has to present to Parliament and/or the media many years later. See the Savile Inquiry Report.

Abuse of power: Bullying. Soon to be classified as an “addiction”

Addiction: Bad behaviour turned into an “illness”.

An inquiry: A process by which an embarrassing story disappears from public view.

Apology: -
(1) A short form of words by which a person says sorry for behaviour which is “wrong” (see above). Traditionally starts with the 1st person singular and ends with the word “sorry”. In danger of falling into disuse.
(2) A long form of words by which someone appears to apologise while not in fact doing so. The non-apology apology requires focus on the victim’s reaction while also implying that it is both over-egged and may not have happened.

Banter: Amusing social interaction between friends and/or colleagues. Not to be confused with bad or offensive language, which becomes “banter” when someone complains about it.

Code of Conduct: Having some manners.

Inappropriate: Very popular word covering –
(1) Breaches of social etiquette, such as using fish knives to eat steaks.
(2) Language mistakes e.g. the use of “disinterested” to mean “uninterested”.
(3) Behaviour previously described as “wrong” or “illegal” or “criminal”.

Lack of resources: The best reason yet invented for not implementing any difficult recommendations.

Lessons learned: Lessons which are never learned by those who need to learn them.

Recommendations: What you find, if you read that far, in the Appendices to a report.

Sexual harassment: Boorish behaviour, unwanted by the target. Not to be confused with flirtation or courtship. Often perpetrated by people who have not recently looked in a mirror or who have forgotten their age or marital status.

Shame: No known contemporary definition. Last heard of in the 1960’s.

The internet: An efficient way of disseminating porn and cat videos.

The long grass: Where recommendations usually end up. See also “Inquiry”

The time for apologies is over (©Bob Diamond): The time when apologies (see “Apology (1))” should start.

There are many variations of this. Industries where bad behaviour is widespread are fond of adding to their apologies (variant no. (2)) a lengthy reference to all the good people in the industry; see Banking, Parliament, the Police, Journalism.

Whistleblowing: Something which is frequently talked about but rarely done. The equivalent of an “extreme sport” in some professions e.g. medicine, politics, finance.

Witch-hunt: The process of making grown-ups accountable for their behaviour.

Working group: A group of people unable to avoid being tasked with the responsibility of coming up with suggestions as to how recommendations might be implemented.

Wrong: Description of behaviour which is either illegal or known by a majority to fall below widely accepted standards of decency. Implies responsibility by the person doing it. Now in high danger of falling into disuse.

Over to you, now………

[www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/11/06/the-pb-cynics-dictionary-especially-complied-for-the-times/]


Message 50e5a913p13-10173-450+04.htm, number 128223, was posted on Wed Nov 8 at 07:30:45
in reply to 47e54da900A-10170-976-07.htm

Is anybody happy?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


A lot of English people are:

’Personal well-being in the UK: July 2016 to June 2017 - Estimates of personal well-being for the UK and countries of the UK for the year ending June 2017:

1. Main points
Average ratings of life satisfaction, feeling that the things we do in life are worthwhile and happiness have increased slightly in the UK between the years ending June 2016 and 2017.
There was no change in average anxiety ratings in the UK between the years ending June 2016 and 2017.
Improvements in life satisfaction, worthwhile and happiness ratings in the UK were driven by England, the only country where average ratings across these measures improved.
People in Northern Ireland report the highest levels of personal well-being, when compared with the UK average.
This publication is the first to present a full year of personal well-being data since the EU referendum.

2. Statistician’s comment
"Today's figures, the first to be based on a full year of data since the EU referendum, show small increases in how people in the UK rate their life satisfaction, happiness and feelings that the things they do in life are worthwhile. The improvements were driven by England - the only country where quality of life ratings got better over the last year." - Matthew Steel – Office for National Statistics . . ‘

I wonder how many of the New York Times’ readers would agree?

[www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/bulletins/measuringnationalwellbeing/july2016tojune2017]



Message aeda0cd900A-10173-943-07.htm, number 128224, was posted on Wed Nov 8 at 15:42:51
All captains may be “on the beach”; permanently.

Hoyden


Autonomous cars, crewless ships, “what a fascinating modern age we live in.”

www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/robot-ships-will-bring-big-benefits-put-captains-shore-ncna818941


Message 4747f4808HW-10174-800+06.htm, number 128225, was posted on Thu Nov 9 at 13:20:37
in reply to aeda0cd900A-10173-943-07.htm

Never happen.

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


It is indeed fascinating.  But I don't envision, even in the long-term theoretical future, a day when all captains will be on the beach—certainly not captains of vessels of war.  I'm guessing a defense of that opinion would be redundant, in this forum, so I won't burden you with it.  But if you disagree, have at me and I'll try to explain.

By the way, Mr Bennington-Castro says "As a result, shipping companies may replace their giant cargo vessels with fleets of smaller, more fuel-efficient boats."  Are smaller vessels more fuel-efficient?  I would have thought the opposite.  Not in MPG/vessel, obviously, but in MPG/cargo ton.  What say the more knowledgeable about that?

On Wed Nov 8, Hoyden wrote
--------------------------
>Autonomous cars, crewless ships, “what a fascinating modern age we live in.”

>www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/robot-ships-will-bring-big-benefits-put-captains-shore-ncna818941


Message 4981ca22cZn-10174-868+06.htm, number 128226, was posted on Thu Nov 9 at 14:28:35
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10174-800+06.htm

Re: Never happen.

Mark Henry
markrhenry@comcast.net


I reacted in to that statement the same way you did, Bob.  Larger vessels will provide a lower MPG/cargo ton.  Further, larger ships tend to have approximately the same size crews as smaller ships so the labor cost per cargo ton mile will also decrease for larger ships.  The growth of cargo ships over time is ample proof of these facts.


On Thu Nov 9, Bob Bridges wrote (snip)
-------------------------------
>By the way, Mr Bennington-Castro says "As a result, shipping companies may replace their giant cargo vessels with fleets of smaller, more fuel-efficient boats."  Are smaller vessels more fuel-efficient?  I would have thought the opposite.  Not in MPG/vessel, obviously, but in MPG/cargo ton.  What say the more knowledgeable about that?

>On Wed Nov 8, Hoyden wrote
>--------------------------
>>Autonomous cars, crewless ships, “what a fascinating modern age we live in.”

>>www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/robot-ships-will-bring-big-benefits-put-captains-shore-ncna818941


Message 4747f4808HW-10174-1225+06.htm, number 128227, was posted on Thu Nov 9 at 20:25:31
in reply to 4981ca22cZn-10174-868+06.htm

Re^2: Never happen.

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Mark, am I thinking backward or are you?  Larger vessels would get more mi/gal-ton ... or, if you're British, fewer l/mi-ton.  I think we mean the same thing, just one of us is saying it backward.  J'accuse.

On Thu Nov 9, Mark Henry wrote
------------------------------
>I reacted in to that statement the same way you did, Bob.  Larger vessels will provide a lower MPG/cargo ton.  Further, larger ships tend to have approximately the same size crews as smaller ships so the labor cost per cargo ton mile will also decrease for larger ships.  The growth of cargo ships over time is ample proof of these facts.

>On Thu Nov 9, Bob Bridges wrote (snip)
>-------------------------------
>>By the way, Mr Bennington-Castro says "As a result, shipping companies may replace their giant cargo vessels with fleets of smaller, more fuel-efficient boats."  Are smaller vessels more fuel-efficient?  I would have thought the opposite.  Not in MPG/vessel, obviously, but in MPG/cargo ton.  What say the more knowledgeable about that?

>>On Wed Nov 8, Hoyden wrote
>>--------------------------
>>>Autonomous cars, crewless ships, “what a fascinating modern age we live in.”

>>>www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/robot-ships-will-bring-big-benefits-put-captains-shore-ncna818941


Message 4981ca22cZn-10175-310+05.htm, number 128228, was posted on Fri Nov 10 at 05:10:16
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10174-1225+06.htm

Re^3: Never happen.

Mark Henry
markrhenry@comcast.net


You are correct, Bob.  That's what happens when I respond too quickly.  

Your measure of efficiency -- MPG/cargo ton -- is expressed differently from how I would state it: cargo-ton miles per gallon (or a larger unit (e.g., ton) for ships) of fuel consumed.  Either way, a more efficient vessel would have a higher value.

On Thu Nov 9, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>Mark, am I thinking backward or are you?  Larger vessels would get more mi/gal-ton ... or, if you're British, fewer l/mi-ton.  I think we mean the same thing, just one of us is saying it backward.  J'accuse.

>On Thu Nov 9, Mark Henry wrote
>------------------------------
>>I reacted in to that statement the same way you did, Bob.  Larger vessels will provide a lower MPG/cargo ton.  Further, larger ships tend to have approximately the same size crews as smaller ships so the labor cost per cargo ton mile will also decrease for larger ships.  The growth of cargo ships over time is ample proof of these facts.

>>On Thu Nov 9, Bob Bridges wrote (snip)
>>-------------------------------
>>>By the way, Mr Bennington-Castro says "As a result, shipping companies may replace their giant cargo vessels with fleets of smaller, more fuel-efficient boats."  Are smaller vessels more fuel-efficient?  I would have thought the opposite.  Not in MPG/vessel, obviously, but in MPG/cargo ton.  What say the more knowledgeable about that?

>>>On Wed Nov 8, Hoyden wrote
>>>--------------------------
>>>>Autonomous cars, crewless ships, “what a fascinating modern age we live in.”

>>>>www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/robot-ships-will-bring-big-benefits-put-captains-shore-ncna818941


Message 4747f4808HW-10175-683+05.htm, number 128229, was posted on Fri Nov 10 at 11:23:33
in reply to 4981ca22cZn-10175-310+05.htm

Re^4: Never happen.

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Yeah, even as I wrote it I felt that "mi/gal-ton" was awkward—technically ok but didn't feel like the way I should put it.  Thanks.

On Fri Nov 10, Mark Henry wrote
-------------------------------
>You are correct, Bob.  That's what happens when I respond too quickly.  

>Your measure of efficiency -- MPG/cargo ton -- is expressed differently from how I would state it: cargo-ton miles per gallon (or a larger unit (e.g., ton) for ships) of fuel consumed.  Either way, a more efficient vessel would have a higher value.

>On Thu Nov 9, Bob Bridges wrote
>-------------------------------
>>Mark, am I thinking backward or are you?  Larger vessels would get more mi/gal-ton ... or, if you're British, fewer l/mi-ton.  I think we mean the same thing, just one of us is saying it backward.  J'accuse.

>>On Thu Nov 9, Mark Henry wrote
>>------------------------------
>>>I reacted in to that statement the same way you did, Bob.  Larger vessels will provide a lower MPG/cargo ton.  Further, larger ships tend to have approximately the same size crews as smaller ships so the labor cost per cargo ton mile will also decrease for larger ships.  The growth of cargo ships over time is ample proof of these facts.

>>>On Thu Nov 9, Bob Bridges wrote (snip)
>>>-------------------------------
>>>>By the way, Mr Bennington-Castro says "As a result, shipping companies may replace their giant cargo vessels with fleets of smaller, more fuel-efficient boats."  Are smaller vessels more fuel-efficient?  I would have thought the opposite.  Not in MPG/vessel, obviously, but in MPG/cargo ton.  What say the more knowledgeable about that?

>>>>On Wed Nov 8, Hoyden wrote
>>>>--------------------------
>>>>>Autonomous cars, crewless ships, “what a fascinating modern age we live in.”

>>>>>www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/robot-ships-will-bring-big-benefits-put-captains-shore-ncna818941


Message 50e5a913p13-10176-744-90.htm, number 128230, was posted on Sat Nov 11 at 12:24:25
“A Darker Sea: Master Commodore Putnam and the War of 1812,” - a review from Wyoming

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This is the second volume in the Putnam series by James L Haley: www.wvgazettemail.com/arts_and_entertainment/books/wv-book-team-new-seagoing-series-from-james-ha

See also www.jameslhaley.com/ : ‘ . .  I am far from done. The last time I looked in my literary "barrel" there were twenty-two more I want to finish before I shed this mortal coil, so I'd better get busy!’


Message 47e54da900A-10177-377-07.htm, number 128231, was posted on Sun Nov 12 at 06:17:17
Sloth at a party, apparently un-debauched.

Hoyden


I loathe Geico; having dealt with them over their customer’s aptitude for T-boning my car, but occasionally they produce an entertaining Ad....

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl3l6Bq6bMo


Message 46c5413d00A-10178-285+06.htm, number 128232, was posted on Mon Nov 13 at 04:45:25
in reply to 47e54da900A-10177-377-07.htm

Re: trunk monkeys

Max


The classic
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv6dzP7WDMc&sns=em



On Sun Nov 12, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>I loathe Geico; having dealt with them over their customer’s aptitude for T-boning my car, but occasionally they produce an entertaining Ad....

>m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl3l6Bq6bMo


Message aeda81df00A-10178-1130-07.htm, number 128233, was posted on Mon Nov 13 at 18:50:22
Vaquita porpoise— “panda of the sea” endangered.

Hoyden


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/climate/vaquita-porpoise-dies.html?action=click&module=Discovery&pgtype=Homepage

Message aeda81df00A-10178-1132+07.htm, number 128234, was posted on Mon Nov 13 at 18:51:35
in reply to aeda81df00A-10178-1130-07.htm

Corrected link

Hoyden


On Mon Nov 13, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/climate/vaquita-porpoise-dies.html?action=click&module=Discovery&pgtype=Homepage

Message aeda81df00A-10178-1253-07.htm, number 128235, was posted on Mon Nov 13 at 20:53:15
Diomedea exulans—drone prototype

Hoyden


www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/scientists-want-build-robotic-albatross-here-s-why-ncna820186

Message d8efa64200A-10179-473-07.htm, number 128236, was posted on Tue Nov 14 at 07:53:19
Jack would be up before the idlers are called, Jupiter and Venus in conjunction—0.3 degrees apart.

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2017/11/13/us/jupiter-venus-planetary-display-trnd/index.html

Message 61518b1d8HW-10179-748+06.htm, number 128237, was posted on Tue Nov 14 at 12:29:47
in reply to aeda81df00A-10178-1253-07.htm

What does the 'B' in "Benoit B Mandelbrot" stand for?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


While reading Hoyden's article I ran into a photo of Jupiter that reminded me irresistably of the Mandelbrot set.  I couldn't point to it from here, but there's a short (1:23) video here that I recommend for those who like such things.

The polar views are especially interesting.  It makes sense that the storm patterns there should be different from those we see more often, but they're different in surprising ways.

On Mon Nov 13, Hoyden  wrote
----------------------------
>www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/scientists-want-build-robotic-albatross-here-s-why-ncna820186


Message 50e5a913p13-10179-814+06.htm, number 128238, was posted on Tue Nov 14 at 13:34:17
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10179-748+06.htm

Re: What does the 'B' in "Benoit B Mandelbrot" stand for?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


' In his autobiography, Mandelbrot did not add a circumflex to the "i" (i.e. "î") in his first name. He included "B" as a middle initial. The New York Times obituary stated that "he added the middle initial himself, though it does not stand for a middle name".[1] But other sources suggest that he intended his middle initial B. to recursively mean Benoit B. Mandelbrot, thereby including a fractal (his mathematical discovery) in his own name.[2][3]’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benoit_Mandelbrot#cite_note-Mandelbrot.27s_name-4


Message 50e5a913p13-10179-815+06.htm, number 128239, was posted on Tue Nov 14 at 13:34:40
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10179-748+06.htm

Re: What does the 'B' in "Benoit B Mandelbrot" stand for?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


' In his autobiography, Mandelbrot did not add a circumflex to the "i" (i.e. "î") in his first name. He included "B" as a middle initial. The New York Times obituary stated that "he added the middle initial himself, though it does not stand for a middle name".[1] But other sources suggest that he intended his middle initial B. to recursively mean Benoit B. Mandelbrot, thereby including a fractal (his mathematical discovery) in his own name.[2][3]’

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benoit_Mandelbrot#cite_note-Mandelbrot.27s_name-4


Message 61518b1d8HW-10179-1433+06.htm, number 128240, was posted on Tue Nov 14 at 23:53:21
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10179-815+06.htm

Wait, that's real?!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I thought it was just a joke.  What does the 'B' in "Benoit B Mandelbrot" stand for?  It stands for "Benoit B Mandelbrot".

On Tue Nov 14, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>'In his autobiography, Mandelbrot did not add a circumflex to the "i" (i.e. "î") in his first name. He included "B" as a middle initial. The New York Times obituary stated that "he added the middle initial himself, though it does not stand for a middle name". But other sources suggest that he intended his middle initial B. to recursively mean Benoit B. Mandelbrot, thereby including a fractal (his mathematical discovery) in his own name.’

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benoit_Mandelbrot#cite_note-Mandelbrot.27s_name-4


Message aeda06d900A-10182-1183-07.htm, number 128241, was posted on Fri Nov 17 at 19:42:48
Passenger Pidgeon’s demise-lack of DNA diversity?

Hoyden


www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/11/16/billions-or-bust-new-genetic-c

Message 47e54da900A-10183-269-07.htm, number 128242, was posted on Sat Nov 18 at 04:29:38
“Andrei, you've lost another submarine?”

Dr. Jeffrey Pelt


www.cnn.com/2017/11/17/americas/argentina-submarine-missing/index.html

“Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep;
Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea!
O Christ! Whose voice the waters heard
And hushed their raging at Thy word,
Who walkedst on the foaming deep,
And calm amidst its rage didst sleep;
Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea!”


Message aeda06d900A-10183-1343-07.htm, number 128243, was posted on Sat Nov 18 at 22:22:57
“You foul my cable and I’ll cut your hawser”

Hoyden


www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/11

Message 50e5a913p13-10184-376+06.htm, number 128244, was posted on Sun Nov 19 at 06:16:17
in reply to 47e54da900A-10183-269-07.htm

Missing Argentina submarine sent seven failed satellite calls,

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Attempts sent on Saturday from San Juan submarine lasted between four and 36 seconds, says defence ministry:

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/19/missing-argentina-submarine-sent-seven-failed-satellite-calls-search


Message 47e54da900A-10185-430-07.htm, number 128245, was posted on Mon Nov 20 at 07:10:15
Discharged Dead

Hoyden


Charles Manson — unlikely that any foremast Jack will buy his clothes at the Mainmast.

M-M-Mel Tillis

David Cassidy sinking fast, will take all of Stephen’s ability, “so long as the tide hasn’t yet turned”.


Message 61518b1d8HW-10185-761+05.htm, number 128246, was posted on Mon Nov 20 at 12:41:00
in reply to 47e54da900A-10183-269-07.htm

Re: “Andrei, you've lost another submarine?”

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I don't know why, but that hymn has always seemed to be especially powerful, or some of you might demote that to merely "especially evocative" which is ok.  Lots of hymns seem to me to be just religious poetry set to music, blah, blah, sing 'em half asleep and then forget 'em, they don't touch me.  There are of course many exceptions;  this one stands out among them, for me anyway.

On Sat Nov 18, Dr. Jeffrey Pelt wrote
-------------------------------------
>www.cnn.com/2017/11/17/americas/argentina-submarine-missing/index.html

>“Eternal Father, strong to save,
>Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
>Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
>Its own appointed limits keep;
>Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
>For those in peril on the sea!
>O Christ! Whose voice the waters heard
>And hushed their raging at Thy word,
>Who walkedst on the foaming deep,
>And calm amidst its rage didst sleep;
>Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
>For those in peril on the sea!”


Message 47da86d1UWK-10186-7-30.htm, number 128247, was posted on Tue Nov 21 at 00:06:49
RIP Malcolm Young

Culling Simples
cullysimp@yahoo.com


wouldnt want him listed with the sods below.

Message aeda06d900A-10186-417-07.htm, number 128248, was posted on Tue Nov 21 at 06:56:57
Thanksgiving table trivia - you don’t want to have anything to do with that wicked old Finner.

Ahab


www.cnn.com/2017/11/21/world/whales-righties-study/index.html

Message 50e5a913p13-10187-1178+03.htm, number 128249, was posted on Wed Nov 22 at 19:38:06
in reply to 47e54da900A-10183-269-07.htm

Re: “Andrei - LATEST

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Argentina: families of 44 lost submarine crew furious over red tape - Delay in launching rescue criticised as RAF aircraft carrying emergency life support pods lands in South American country:

‘ .  . Meanwhile, reports of a strange noise detected by US sensors on 15 November in the area where the submarine was traveling at the time of its disappearance generated speculation that the San Juan may have suffered an explosion shortly after it last made radio contact.

Enrique Balbi, a navy spokesman, said in a press update on Wednesday evening: “Today we received official indication that corresponds to the morning of Wednesday 15 November, coinciding with the area of operations of the last registered location of the submarine. This indicator corresponds to a hydro-acoustic anomaly, 30 miles north of its last known location at 7.30am.”

Balbi refused to elaborate on the announcement, saying more details would be forthcoming on Thursday . . '

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/22/search-for-missing-argentinian-submarine-enters-critical-phase


Message 50e5a913p13-10190-694-90.htm, number 128250, was posted on Sat Nov 25 at 11:34:08
You must remember this: Casablanca turns 75 . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . and remains a classic of wartime propaganda:

Stephen Mcveigh: Casablanca, which brought together the combined star-power of Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman, remains one of the best-loved movies ever produced in Hollywood. But the film, which hit the silver screen on November 26 1942, is more than just a love story set in Morocco.

Released in the aftermath of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor – which propelled a reluctant United States to enter World War II – the film was actually a classic piece of propaganda cinema masquerading as popular entertainment . .

[https://reaction.life/must-remember-casablanca-turns-75-remains-classic-wartime-propaganda/]


Message 50e5a913p13-10190-694+5a.htm, number 128250, was edited on Sat Nov 25 at 11:35:23
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10190-694-90.htm

You must remember this: Casablanca turns 75 . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . and remains a classic of wartime propaganda:

Stephen Mcveigh: Casablanca, which brought together the combined star-power of Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman, remains one of the best-loved movies ever produced in Hollywood. But the film, which hit the silver screen on November 26 1942, is more than just a love story set in Morocco.

Released in the aftermath of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor – which propelled a reluctant United States to enter World War II – the film was actually a classic piece of propaganda cinema masquerading as popular entertainment . .

[reaction.life/must-remember-casablanca-turns-75-remains-classic-wartime-propaganda/]

[ This message was edited on Sat Nov 25 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10190-694+5a.htm, number 128250, was edited on Sat Nov 25 at 11:35:24
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10190-694-90.htm

You must remember this: Casablanca turns 75 . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . and remains a classic of wartime propaganda:

Stephen Mcveigh: Casablanca, which brought together the combined star-power of Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman, remains one of the best-loved movies ever produced in Hollywood. But the film, which hit the silver screen on November 26 1942, is more than just a love story set in Morocco.

Released in the aftermath of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor – which propelled a reluctant United States to enter World War II – the film was actually a classic piece of propaganda cinema masquerading as popular entertainment . .

[reaction.life/must-remember-casablanca-turns-75-remains-classic-wartime-propaganda/]

[ This message was edited on Sat Nov 25 by the author ]


Message 47e54da900A-10190-927+5a.htm, number 128251, was posted on Sat Nov 25 at 15:26:46
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10190-694+5a.htm

I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Croupier


Your winnings, sir

Message 50e5a913p13-10192-664-90.htm, number 128252, was posted on Mon Nov 27 at 11:04:13
M&C II rumour from Russell Crowe

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Russell Crowe‏ @russellcrowe

tweets:

For the Aubrey Maturin lovers , I do hear whispers indeed that a second voyage is perhaps potentially pre-proposed a possibility . So O’Brian affectionate’s and aficionados , let @20thcenturyfox know of your pleasure .

twitter.com/russellcrowe

Message 50e5a913p13-10192-798-07.htm, number 128253, was posted on Mon Nov 27 at 13:18:35
, From which tree native to South America is the alkaloid quinine extracted?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference; Stephen knew all about it - do you?

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195160901%2E013%2E0742 to find the answer.


Message 50e5a913p13-10192-834-90.htm, number 128254, was posted on Mon Nov 27 at 13:54:06
'They’re changing guard at Buckingham Palace . . '

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
‘ . . “A soldier’s life is terrible hard,”
Says Alice . . ‘

www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2017/november/26/171126-royal-navy-buckingham-palace


Message aeda81e300A-10192-1177-07.htm, number 128255, was posted on Mon Nov 27 at 19:37:18
“USS Fitzgerald” damaged again.

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2017/11/27/politics/uss-fitzgerald-damaged-japan/index.html

Message 50e5a913p13-10192-1178-90.htm, number 128256, was posted on Mon Nov 27 at 19:38:18
Argentina's missing submarine: water caused battery to short-circuit

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The San Juan . . had been ordered back to its base after it reported water had entered the vessel through its snorkel

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/27/argentinas-missing-submarine-water-caused-battery-to-short-circuit


Message 50e5a913p13-10192-1185+07.htm, number 128257, was posted on Mon Nov 27 at 19:44:51
in reply to aeda81e300A-10192-1177-07.htm

Gobbledigook

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘ . . "The risks that were taken in the Western Pacific accumulated over time, and did so insidiously," the report said. "The dynamic environment normalized to the point where individuals and groups of individuals could no longer recognize that the processes in place to identify and assess readiness were no longer working at the ship and headquarters level.”'

Could someone please translate this into plain language that Jack and his petty officers would understand?


Message 90a0625e00A-10193-523+06.htm, number 128258, was posted on Tue Nov 28 at 08:43:00
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10192-1185+07.htm

Re: Gobbledigook

YA


“We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.”

― Konstantin Jireček

But seriously, this is closer to a direct translation:

"short term short cuts to established procedures became routine."
combine this with what everybody is told in the Navy:
"These rules or instructions were written in blood"
meaning "somebody died, now we do it this way"

So when you drop the previous routine established for a reason, well, shit happens.

you may like this:
www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/6uz5hj/uss_john_mccain_collides_with_merchant_ship/

especially this:
www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/6uz5hj/uss_john_mccain_collides_with_merchant_ship/dlx2esb/

or just ctrl-f 'sleep' in the entire thread




On Mon Nov 27, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>‘ . . "The risks that were taken in the Western Pacific accumulated over time, and did so insidiously," the report said. "The dynamic environment normalized to the point where individuals and groups of individuals could no longer recognize that the processes in place to identify and assess readiness were no longer working at the ship and headquarters level.”'

>Could someone please translate this into plain language that Jack and his petty officers would understand?


Message 6cadb1a1gpf-10193-1238+59.htm, number 128259, was posted on Tue Nov 28 at 20:37:53
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10192-664-90.htm

Re: M&C II rumour from Russell Crowe

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


'Perhaps potentially pre-proposed a possibility?' - bloody hell, did Crowe really say that? I hope not.



On Mon Nov 27, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>Russell Crowe‏ @russellcrowe
>

>tweets:
>
>For the Aubrey Maturin lovers , I do hear whispers indeed that a second voyage is perhaps potentially pre-proposed a possibility . So O’Brian affectionate’s and aficionados , let @20thcenturyfox know of your pleasure .
>

>twitter.com/russellcrowe


Message aeda8a1000A-10193-1344+59.htm, number 128260, was posted on Tue Nov 28 at 22:24:03
in reply to 6cadb1a1gpf-10193-1238+59.htm

Whom do we propose for Lucky Jack?

Hoyden


Seeing RC lately, I’d assume he’d be offered a spot as “Yellowed Admiral”, or a master attendant at a dockyard.

I propose Tom Hardy, and no heel taps Gentlemen.


Message 50e5a913p13-10194-345+07.htm, number 128261, was posted on Wed Nov 29 at 05:45:07
in reply to aeda81e300A-10192-1177-07.htm

Gobbledigook

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘ . . "The risks that were taken in the Western Pacific accumulated over time, and did so insidiously," the report said. "The dynamic environment normalized to the point where individuals and groups of individuals could no longer recognize that the processes in place to identify and assess readiness were no longer working at the ship and headquarters level.”'

Could someone please translate this into plain language that Jack and his petty officers would understand?


Message 50e5a913p13-10194-348+58.htm, number 128262, was posted on Wed Nov 29 at 05:48:22
in reply to aeda8a1000A-10193-1344+59.htm

Cometh the hour . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


       . . cometh the man:
image host

He’d need a blonde wig and an officer’s jacket but apart from that he’s battle-ready.


Message 50e5a913p13-10194-378+58.htm, number 128262, was edited on Wed Nov 29 at 06:18:04
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10194-348+58.htm

Cometh the hour . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


       . . cometh the man:
image host

He’d need a blonde wig and an officer’s jacket but apart from that he’s battle-ready - except of course he’s much too thin - he’ll need to wear a cushion round his belly to make him authentic.

[ This message was edited on Wed Nov 29 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10194-408-07.htm, number 128263, was posted on Wed Nov 29 at 06:48:16
‘In literary history who or what was the great Panjandrum?’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Go to www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199695140%2E013%2E1368 to find the answer to today's question from Oxford Reference.

Message 61518b1d8HW-10194-903+07.htm, number 128264, was posted on Wed Nov 29 at 15:03:26
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10194-408-07.htm

Re: ‘In literary history who or what was the great Panjandrum?’

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Nope, I got it wrong.  I was thinking it sounded like something Kipling would have made up meaning roughly "the Grand Poo-Bah".

On Wed Nov 29, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>Go to www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199695140%2E013%2E1368 to find the answer to today's question from Oxford Reference.


Message 47e54da900A-10194-1235-07.htm, number 128265, was posted on Wed Nov 29 at 20:34:54
“The Story of How Surgeons Cleaned Up Their Act”-“NYT”

Hoyden


Victorian era, but I can imagine Stephen “going snacks” on one of these corpses.


www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/books/revi

Message 47e54da900A-10195-1070-07.htm, number 128266, was posted on Thu Nov 30 at 17:49:31
Discharged Dead: Jim Nabors

Hoyden


What a voice


Message 47e54da900A-10195-1326-07.htm, number 128267, was posted on Thu Nov 30 at 22:06:04
Nelson, Napoleon and Malta—“NYT”

Hoyden


Valletta, Europe's first planned city.

www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/t-magazine/malta-cultural-crossroads


Message 50e5a913p13-10196-404+56.htm, number 128268, was posted on Fri Dec 1 at 06:44:10
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10192-1178-90.htm

RArgentina's missing submarine: 'No one will be rescued'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Navy will now only look in shallower waters for ARA San Juan, which sank off Patagonia, with 44 crew on board . .

[www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/30/argentina-calls-off-missing-submarine-rescue-effort]


Message 61518b1d8HW-10196-597+56.htm, number 128269, was posted on Fri Dec 1 at 09:57:41
in reply to 6cadb1a1gpf-10193-1238+59.htm

It was a joke

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Oh, come on, he was making a wry comment on how reliable are such whispers in Hollywood.  Hawkeye Pierce once complained that someone had given "a firm possibility of a definite maybe", along the same lines.

On Tue Nov 28, Joe McWilliams wrote
-----------------------------------
>'Perhaps potentially pre-proposed a possibility?' - bloody hell, did Crowe really say that? I hope not.

>On Mon Nov 27, Chrístõ wrote
>----------------------------
>>Russell Crowe‏ @russellcrowe tweets:
>>For the Aubrey Maturin lovers , I do hear whispers indeed that a second voyage is perhaps potentially pre-proposed a possibility . So O’Brian affectionate’s and aficionados , let @20thcenturyfox know of your pleasure .

>>twitter.com/russellcrowe


Message aeda0ac800A-10196-974-30.htm, number 128270, was posted on Fri Dec 1 at 16:13:43
75 years ago-Nukes on a squash court

Hoyden


www.uchicago.edu/features/how_the_first_chain_reaction_changed_science/

Message 4cdac2ec00A-10197-1415+55.htm, number 128271, was posted on Sat Dec 2 at 23:35:37
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10194-378+58.htm

Re: Cometh the truth. .

Max


Between his own productions, Venom and Mad Max, Hardy is booked solid for at least 3 years.
Not a chance for a major movie sequel in my view.

A TV series is always possible and probably the best means to bring the books to a viewing audience.

That dragons in the Royal Navy book series is still kicking around but lacks a home.

In my opinion Christoph Waltz was born to play Stephen.


On Wed Nov 29, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>       . . cometh the man:
>image host

>He’d need a blonde wig and an officer’s jacket but apart from that he’s battle-ready - except of course he’s much too thin - he’ll need to wear a cushion round his belly to make him authentic.


Message 4747f4808HW-10199-815+53.htm, number 128272, was posted on Mon Dec 4 at 13:35:18
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10197-1415+55.htm

Christoph Waltz!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Oh, what a perfectly perfect idea!  He's nowhere near ugly enough, but that can be managed.

Is it too late now that audiences have Paul Bettany in their minds' eyes, though?

On Sat Dec 2, Max wrote
-----------------------
>Between his own productions, Venom and Mad Max, Hardy is booked solid for at least 3 years.
>Not a chance for a major movie sequel in my view.

>A TV series is always possible and probably the best means to bring the books to a viewing audience.

>That dragons in the Royal Navy book series is still kicking around but lacks a home.

>In my opinion Christoph Waltz was born to play Stephen.

>On Wed Nov 29, Chrístõ wrote
>----------------------------
>>       . . cometh the man:
>>image host

>>He’d need a blonde wig and an officer’s jacket but apart from that he’s battle-ready - except of course he’s much too thin - he’ll need to wear a cushion round his belly to make him authentic.


Message 4747f4808HW-10199-918+53.htm, number 128273, was posted on Mon Dec 4 at 15:18:24
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10192-1178-90.htm

How'd water get into the snorkel?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm assuming a sub's snorkel is not the Mark-II or -III sort of thing a human diver uses; surely there's some mechanism for letting air in but cutting off when there's water...?

On Mon Nov 27, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>The San Juan . . had been ordered back to its base after it reported water had entered the vessel through its snorkel

>www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/27/argentinas-missing-submarine-water-caused-battery-to-short-circuit


Message a766e2d4fJj-10200-1105-90.htm, number 128274, was posted on Tue Dec 5 at 18:25:35
Calvert Marine Museum

Jennie
jenniearcheo@gmail.com


Hey guys,

It's been . . . oh, probably a decade or two. Anyway, the Calvert Marine Museum in Southern Maryland is looking for a new Curator of Maritime History. Please pass around to any interested parties. Or even disinterested parties who may have friends.

Cheers,
Jennie
https://councilofamericanmaritimemuseums.org/2017/12/05/calvert-marine-museum-seeking-curator-of-maritime-history/

P.S. My kids are 18 and 14 now. Tabitha (Tibby) is finishing her first semester at St. Mary's College of Maryland (precisely 30 years after me) and Rory is a high school freshman who spends 90% of his free time on video games and 10% rather grudgingly on his karate.


Message a766e2d4fJj-10200-1111+0d.htm, number 128275, was posted on Tue Dec 5 at 18:31:02
in reply to 465fd3f38YV-10123-28-90.htm

Re: So.....a pirate walks into

Jennie
jenniearcheo@gmail.com


On Tue Sep 19, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>>a doctor's office to have the spots on his arm looked at.

>"They're benign", the doctor said.

>"No, Doc, there be eleven - I counted them before I came in..."

>Happy TLAP Day!

LOL


Message aeda159200A-10201-392-07.htm, number 128276, was posted on Wed Dec 6 at 06:32:29
Life in Northern Spain, 1777-information found in an unlikely place.

Hoyden


news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/12/letters-found-butt-jesus-statue-time-capsule-spain-spd/

Message 50e5a913p13-10201-419-90.htm, number 128277, was posted on Wed Dec 6 at 06:59:11
Christine Keeler RIP

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Who she? - The good-time girl who bought down a government - forever fondly remembered by men of my age:

image host
‘ . .  Although Keeler objected to the proposal that she undress for the picture, the producers threatened her with breach of contract. Morley took control of the situation. He cleared the studio of everyone and manoeuvred his subject into a pose that would both fulfil the demands of her contract and keep her modesty intact. His studio chair provided the perfect cover.

Just five minutes, and one roll of film later, the session was over. One of the most famous and most imitated photographs ever published was actually an afterthought: ‘I was in a hurry to get the session over and I had stopped shooting,’ says Morley. ‘I had taken a step or so back and looked into my viewfinder as a parting glance, saw the image which caught my fancy... click, there it was, the last frame on the roll.’ . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/05/christine-keeler-obituary
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2017/dec/05/profumo-affair-model-christine-keeler-a-life-in-pictures
www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2002/feb/10/features.magazine57


Message 50e5a913p13-10201-419+5a.htm, number 128277, was edited on Wed Dec 6 at 09:34:32
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10201-419-90.htm

Christine Keeler RIP

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Who she? - The good-time girl who bought down a government - forever fondly remembered by men of my age:

image host
‘ . .  Although Keeler objected to the proposal that she undress for the picture, the producers threatened her with breach of contract. Morley took control of the situation. He cleared the studio of everyone and manoeuvred his subject into a pose that would both fulfil the demands of her contract and keep her modesty intact. His studio chair provided the perfect cover.

Just five minutes, and one roll of film later, the session was over. One of the most famous and most imitated photographs ever published was actually an afterthought: ‘I was in a hurry to get the session over and I had stopped shooting,’ says Morley. ‘I had taken a step or so back and looked into my viewfinder as a parting glance, saw the image which caught my fancy... click, there it was, the last frame on the roll.’ . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/05/christine-keeler-obituary
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2017/dec/05/profumo-affair-model-christine-keeler-a-life-in-pictures
www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2002/feb/10/features.magazine57

The P.M. aka “SuperMac”:
image host

[ This message was edited on Wed Dec 6 by the author ]


Message 6cadb064gpf-10202-658+50.htm, number 128278, was posted on Thu Dec 7 at 10:58:19
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10197-1415+55.htm

Re^2: Cometh the truth. .

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Could Waltz do a convincing Irishman? I doubt it. Find an Irish actor to play an Irishman, I say.
On Sat Dec 2, Max wrote
-----------------------
>Between his own productions, Venom and Mad Max, Hardy is booked solid for at least 3 years.
>Not a chance for a major movie sequel in my view.

>A TV series is always possible and probably the best means to bring the books to a viewing audience.

>That dragons in the Royal Navy book series is still kicking around but lacks a home.

>In my opinion Christoph Waltz was born to play Stephen.
>
>
>On Wed Nov 29, Chrístõ wrote
>----------------------------
>>       . . cometh the man:
>>image host

>>He’d need a blonde wig and an officer’s jacket but apart from that he’s battle-ready - except of course he’s much too thin - he’ll need to wear a cushion round his belly to make him authentic.


Message aedf071700A-10202-659-07.htm, number 128279, was posted on Thu Dec 7 at 10:59:18
The Wild West at sea-$250,000 fish bladders and the Vaquita.

Hoyden


money.cnn.com/interactive/news/vaquita-business-of-extinction/

Message 50e5a913p13-10202-763-90.htm, number 128280, was posted on Thu Dec 7 at 12:43:26
Mutiny on the Bounty captain's unexpected resting place draws fans

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The tomb of Captain William Bligh, who died 200 years ago, has become a central feature of the Garden Museum in London
www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/dec/07/mutiny-on-the-bounty-captain-unexpected-resting-place-garden-museum
………………..
' . . It is important to note, however, that Bligh's ‘violence’ was habitually more verbal than physical . . Bligh flogged less than any other British commander in the Pacific Ocean in the later eighteenth century. What most threw Bligh into 'those violent Tornados of temper' . .  during which he gestured violently with his hands, was perceived dereliction of duty by officers and seamen's incompetence.

When either of these occurred Bligh's invective could bruise men's egos as much as any lash their backs. After the Bounty left Tahiti, Bligh fretted excessively about the plants' welfare. When officers and crew offended he called them 'damn'd Infernal scoundrels, blackguard, liar, vile man, jesuit, thief, lubber, disgrace to the service, damn'd long pelt of a bitch'; he told them he would make them 'eat grass like cows'; he told the officers that he would make them jump overboard before they reached Torres Strait . .

Interestingly, this ‘bad language’ was not obscene in the modern sense; rather, it was humiliating and dislocating. As Dening puts it, '[Bligh's language] was bad, not so much because it was intemperate or abusive, but because it was ambiguous, because men could not read in it a right relationship to his authority' . . Bligh's great failing was that he was so unaware of the effect his mood swings and harsh criticisms had on those about him . . '

(DNB)
………………


Message 4747f4808HW-10203-1156+57.htm, number 128281, was posted on Fri Dec 8 at 19:16:07
in reply to a766e2d4fJj-10200-1105-90.htm

Jennie!!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Welcome back!  I've occasionally gone away, too...but never as long as a decade, I don't think.  A few years, a time or two here and there.

On Tue Dec 5, Jennie wrote
--------------------------
>Hey guys,

>It's been . . . oh, probably a decade or two. Anyway, the Calvert Marine Museum in Southern Maryland is looking for a new Curator of Maritime History. Please pass around to any interested parties. Or even disinterested parties who may have friends.

>https://councilofamericanmaritimemuseums.org/2017/12/05/calvert-marine-museum-seeking-curator-of-maritime-history/

>P.S. My kids are 18 and 14 now. Tabitha (Tibby) is finishing her first semester at St. Mary's College of Maryland (precisely 30 years after me) and Rory is a high school freshman who spends 90% of his free time on video games and 10% rather grudgingly on his karate.


Message aedf071700A-10203-1291-07.htm, number 128282, was posted on Fri Dec 8 at 21:31:30
USS WARD found. Fired 1st American shots in anger —Pearl Harbor

Hoyden


o

Message 47e54da900A-10204-325-07.htm, number 128283, was posted on Sat Dec 9 at 05:24:43
“....the commodification of rare wildlife....”

Hoyden


www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/cute-animal-selfie-you-took-vacation-encouraged-animal-abuse-ncna827911

Message 50e5a913p13-10206-635-90.htm, number 128284, was posted on Mon Dec 11 at 10:35:35
Arthur C Clarke at 100: still the king of science fiction

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



‘2001: A Space Odyssey, Childhood’s End, Arthur C. Clarke’s Mysterious World … one hundred years after his birth, the British writer is the undisputed master. Born on 16 December 1917, Arthur C Clarke lived long enough to see the year he and Stanley Kubrick made cinematically famous with 2001: A Space Odyssey, and it seemed for a while as though he might see in his centenary too: he was physically active (he had a passion for scuba diving), non-smoking, teetotal and always interested in and curious about the world. But having survived a bout of polio in 1962, he found the disease returned as post-polio syndrome in the 1980s; it eventually killed him in 2008 . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/books/2017/dec/09/arthur-c-clarke-king-science-fiction
…………………………………
' . . Chuck didn’t reply, so George swung round in his saddle. He could just see Chuck’s face, a white oval turned toward the sky. “Look,” whispered Chuck, and George lifted his eyes to heaven (there is always a last time for everything) . . ‘

urbigenous.net/library/nine_billion_names_of_god.html
………………………………...
Apart from his huge output of fiction and scientific books, Clarke left us his Three Laws. These are touched by the kind of eternal practicality which make his science fiction so effective and reveal his inner convictions:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The limits of the possible can only be found by going beyond them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology may, at first, be indistinguishable from magic.

Certainly, Clarke's imagination was magical, carrying him beyond the limits of possibility: his greatness was and remains that, from his almost Olympian heights, he could see more than ordinary men will ever see. Moreover, he possessed the power to carry anyone who wished to join him on these great heights of mystery and clarity. If the world believes the clarity to be deceptive, it is not the fault of Arthur C Clarke.

www.theguardian.com/books/2008/mar/19/arthurcclarke1


Message 50e5a913p13-10206-637-90.htm, number 128285, was posted on Mon Dec 11 at 10:37:12
Arthur C Clarke at 100: still the king of science fiction

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



‘2001: A Space Odyssey, Childhood’s End, Arthur C. Clarke’s Mysterious World … one hundred years after his birth, the British writer is the undisputed master. Born on 16 December 1917, Arthur C Clarke lived long enough to see the year he and Stanley Kubrick made cinematically famous with 2001: A Space Odyssey, and it seemed for a while as though he might see in his centenary too: he was physically active (he had a passion for scuba diving), non-smoking, teetotal and always interested in and curious about the world. But having survived a bout of polio in 1962, he found the disease returned as post-polio syndrome in the 1980s; it eventually killed him in 2008 . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/books/2017/dec/09/arthur-c-clarke-king-science-fiction
…………………………………
' . . Chuck didn’t reply, so George swung round in his saddle. He could just see Chuck’s face, a white oval turned toward the sky. “Look,” whispered Chuck, and George lifted his eyes to heaven (there is always a last time for everything) . . ‘

urbigenous.net/library/nine_billion_names_of_god.html
………………………………...
Apart from his huge output of fiction and scientific books, Clarke left us his Three Laws. These are touched by the kind of eternal practicality which make his science fiction so effective and reveal his inner convictions:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

2. The limits of the possible can only be found by going beyond them into the impossible.

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology may, at first, be indistinguishable from magic.

Certainly, Clarke's imagination was magical, carrying him beyond the limits of possibility: his greatness was and remains that, from his almost Olympian heights, he could see more than ordinary men will ever see. Moreover, he possessed the power to carry anyone who wished to join him on these great heights of mystery and clarity. If the world believes the clarity to be deceptive, it is not the fault of Arthur C Clarke.

www.theguardian.com/books/2008/mar/19/arthurcclarke1


Message 47e54da900A-10206-1076-07.htm, number 128286, was posted on Mon Dec 11 at 17:56:08
“There you have it, the whole shooting match....”. EcoShip cruise ship with 10 sails.

Hoyden


money.cnn.com/2017/12/11/technology/green-cruise-ship-ecoship/index.html

Message 605b084d00A-10208-774-07.htm, number 128287, was posted on Wed Dec 13 at 12:53:55
“Run amok” from 200 years ago: today’s mass killings.

Hoyden


mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/us/retro-killers.html?action=click&module=Features&pgtype=Homepage

Message 50e5a913p13-10209-667-90.htm, number 128288, was posted on Thu Dec 14 at 11:07:25
The Terror is coming!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



‘Inspired by a true story, The Terror centers on the Royal Navy’s perilous voyage into unchartered (sic) territory as the crew attempts to discover the Northwest Passage. Faced with treacherous conditions, limited resources, dwindling hope and fear of the unknown, the crew is pushed to the brink of extinction. Frozen, isolated and stuck at the end of the earth, The Terror highlights all that can go wrong when a group of men, desperate to survive, struggle not only with the elements, but with each other.’

www.syfy.com/syfywire/watch-the-first-freezing-trailer-for-amcs-new-horror-series-the-terror


Message 50e5a913p13-10209-667+5a.htm, number 128288, was edited on Thu Dec 14 at 11:09:46
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10209-667-90.htm

The Terror is coming!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



‘Inspired by a true story, The Terror centers on the Royal Navy’s perilous voyage into unchartered (sic) territory as the crew attempts to discover the Northwest Passage. Faced with treacherous conditions, limited resources, dwindling hope and fear of the unknown, the crew is pushed to the brink of extinction. Frozen, isolated and stuck at the end of the earth, The Terror highlights all that can go wrong when a group of men, desperate to survive, struggle not only with the elements, but with each other.’

www.syfy.com/syfywire/watch-the-first-freezing-trailer-for-amcs-new-horror-series-the-terror

[ This message was edited on Thu Dec 14 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10209-667+07.htm, number 128288, was edited on Thu Dec 14 at 11:10:48
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10209-667+5a.htm

The Terror is coming!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



‘Inspired by a true story, The Terror centers on the Royal Navy’s perilous voyage into unchartered (sic) territory as the crew attempts to discover the Northwest Passage. Faced with treacherous conditions, limited resources, dwindling hope and fear of the unknown, the crew is pushed to the brink of extinction. Frozen, isolated and stuck at the end of the earth, The Terror highlights all that can go wrong when a group of men, desperate to survive, struggle not only with the elements, but with each other.’

www.syfy.com/syfywire/watch-the-first-freezing-trailer-for-amcs-new-horror-series-the-terror

[ This message was edited on Thu Dec 14 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10209-677-07.htm, number 128289, was posted on Thu Dec 14 at 11:17:21
'Which British naval officer and explorer, along with his uncle, discovered the Magnetic Pole?’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199677832%2E013%2E3671 to find the answer to today's question!

Message 0c19ad1a00A-10209-806-30.htm, number 128290, was posted on Thu Dec 14 at 13:26:21
I feel this way some mornings

Max


Ancient Shark Found In North Atlantic a.msn.com/01/en-us/BBGIUaQ?ocid=se



Message 0c19ad1a00A-10209-811+49.htm, number 128291, was posted on Thu Dec 14 at 13:31:20
in reply to 6cadb064gpf-10202-658+50.htm

Re^3: Cometh the truth. .

Max


I'm sure that casting a kind of Spanish guy that is half Irish will pose no problems.

Acting Joe, it's what they do.

That said, Irish is pretty easy for these guys. John Vogt for example.
It's lower income Brit that seems to give them problems.



On Thu Dec 7, Joe McWilliams wrote
----------------------------------
>Could Waltz do a convincing Irishman? I doubt it. Find an Irish actor to play an Irishman, I say.
>On Sat Dec 2, Max wrote
>-----------------------
>>Between his own productions, Venom and Mad Max, Hardy is booked solid for at least 3 years.
>>Not a chance for a major movie sequel in my view.

>>A TV series is always possible and probably the best means to bring the books to a viewing audience.

>>That dragons in the Royal Navy book series is still kicking around but lacks a home.

>>In my opinion Christoph Waltz was born to play Stephen.
>>
>>
>>On Wed Nov 29, Chrístõ wrote
>>----------------------------
>>>       . . cometh the man:
>>>image host

>>>He’d need a blonde wig and an officer’s jacket but apart from that he’s battle-ready - except of course he’s much too thin - he’ll need to wear a cushion round his belly to make him authentic.


Message 40915e768YV-10210-995-90.htm, number 128292, was posted on Fri Dec 15 at 16:35:39
Just...watch

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


www.facebook.com/SvMilitarhistorisktBibliotek/videos/1700255476662735/

There are other, longer 'official' versions of this, but I thing the addition of the William Tell Overture was brilliant!


Message 40915e768YV-10210-995+5a.htm, number 128292, was edited on Fri Dec 15 at 17:23:13
and replaces message 40915e768YV-10210-995-90.htm

Just...watch

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


www.facebook.com/SvMilitarhistorisktBibliotek/videos/1700255476662735/

There are other, longer 'official' versions of this, but I think the addition of the William Tell Overture was brilliant! (the music starts around 20 secs in)

Also, according to other sources, the boat was stolen.  

[ This message was edited on Fri Dec 15 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10211-347+04.htm, number 128293, was posted on Sat Dec 16 at 05:46:52
in reply to 605b084d00A-10208-774-07.htm

Opium frenzy

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘amok, n. and adv. Malay amoq adj., ‘engaging furiously in battle, attacking with desperate resolution, rushing in a state of frenzy to the commission of indiscriminate murder... Applied to any animal in a state of vicious rage’; Marsden Malay Dict.. .
A. n. 1. A name for: a frenzied Malay.
. . 1773 J. Hawkesworth Acct. Voy. S. Hemisphere III. iii. xiv. 754 To run a muck in the original sense of the word, is to get intoxicated with opium, and then rush into the street with a drawn weapon, and kill whoever comes in the way, till the party is himself either killed or taken prisoner . . ‘

(OED)


Message 47e54da900A-10211-1196-07.htm, number 128294, was posted on Sat Dec 16 at 19:56:26
Vote-12/21/18. Rajoy v. Puigdemont

Hoyden


mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/world/europe/catalonia-election-puigdemont-rajoy.html

Message 47e54da900A-10211-1201-07.htm, number 128295, was posted on Sat Dec 16 at 20:01:31
7 words you can’t say on Trump TV

aka George Carlin


www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/cdc-reportedly-given-list-seven-banned-words-phrases-n830416

Message c10b0d08cb5-10213-518-30.htm, number 128296, was posted on Mon Dec 18 at 08:37:44
Fun toy for the nautically-inclined (off topic).

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



You may already know all about this, but I just discovered it. I bought a house overlooking the sea in Sweden, and wanted to identify the freighters going by. This web site updates in real time the position and details of every ship participating in the Automatic Identification System for vessel tracking. There's a live map, and the different kinds of ships are color-coded.

Marine Traffic

You can find the ship's registry, its name, port of origin, destination, and current speed. It includes everything from cruise ships to dredgers and signal buoys.

Fun to play with!


Message 6cadb064gpf-10213-825+1e.htm, number 128297, was posted on Mon Dec 18 at 13:44:37
in reply to c10b0d08cb5-10213-518-30.htm

Re: Fun toy for the nautically-inclined (off topic).

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


This is great fun, Frenchie. Thanks! I immediately got lost in it, traveling the world and checking out ships.


On Mon Dec 18, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>You may already know all about this, but I just discovered it. I bought a house overlooking the sea in Sweden, and wanted to identify the freighters going by. This web site updates in real time the position and details of every ship participating in the Automatic Identification System for vessel tracking. There's a live map, and the different kinds of ships are color-coded.

>Marine Traffic

>You can find the ship's registry, its name, port of origin, destination, and current speed. It includes everything from cruise ships to dredgers and signal buoys.

>Fun to play with!


Message 47e54da900A-10213-1153+1e.htm, number 128298, was posted on Mon Dec 18 at 19:12:36
in reply to 6cadb064gpf-10213-825+1e.htm

Watch for the MegaYachts that never move.

Hoyden


ie: Hilton Head Island, SC

Message 47e54da900A-10214-474-07.htm, number 128299, was posted on Tue Dec 19 at 07:53:34
One foot in the well and rising steadily, “HMS QE” taking on 200 litres of water/hour.

Hoyden


www.thesun.co.uk/news/5168494/hms-elizabeth-leak-navy-repairs-millions/

Message 50e5a913p13-10215-1198+06.htm, number 128300, was posted on Wed Dec 20 at 19:57:38
in reply to 47e54da900A-10214-474-07.htm

‘Gosh 10 jerry cans an hour? How long before we sink?'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'A jerrycan (also written as jerry can or jerrican) is a robust liquid container made from pressed steel. It was designed in Germany in the 1930s for military use to hold 20 litres (4.4 imp gal; 5.3 US gal) of fuel . . ‘

(wikipedia)


Message 50e5a913p13-10216-851-90.htm, number 128301, was posted on Thu Dec 21 at 14:11:27
No title!

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



'

Message 50e5a913p13-10216-851+5a.htm, number 128301, was edited on Thu Dec 21 at 14:26:24
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10216-851-90.htm

Titanic Sinks in Real-Time

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



'From our upcoming video game "Titanic: Honor and Glory" This is a rough draft ("pre-vis") of our sinking animation. Be sure to contribute to help make our project a reality!'

'This is our full-length animation of the Titanic sinking, beginning with the iceberg collision and ending with its disappearance. The point of collision is at 1:06. This is a complete animation; not a short animation that was slowed down to match real time. This is also highly accurate, though we have already documented improvements we plan to make for the final game. The animation includes text frequently appearing with what is happening on board the ship. This includes visuals of various interior rooms flooding, lifeboats launching, rockets firing, and the Californian on the horizon. The animation was created in Unreal Engine 4. The exterior model used is not our final model, but an older model created by one of our team members.’

www.titanichg.com/ 2hrs 40m

There are no people in this version, just a deserted ship subsiding sloowly into the icy water. Nonetheless it is remarkably spooky - the sinking experienced as a bad dream from which you can't wake.

I found it researching for the previous item.

[ This message was edited on Thu Dec 21 by the author ]


Message 90a0626000A-10219-818-90.htm, number 128302, was posted on Sun Dec 24 at 13:38:22
Should have posted this a day or two ago. Anyway, merry Christmas!

YA


https://i.imgur.com/yH25jLZ.gifv
Can you hear the new  dialog in their voices? I can.

Message 90a0626000A-10219-826+57.htm, number 128303, was posted on Sun Dec 24 at 13:46:04
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10216-851+5a.htm

Over 18,000 jerry cans a minute, if anyone was wondering. NT

YA


On Thu Dec 21, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>
>'From our upcoming video game "Titanic: Honor and Glory" This is a rough draft ("pre-vis") of our sinking animation. Be sure to contribute to help make our project a reality!'

>'This is our full-length animation of the Titanic sinking, beginning with the iceberg collision and ending with its disappearance. The point of collision is at 1:06. This is a complete animation; not a short animation that was slowed down to match real time. This is also highly accurate, though we have already documented improvements we plan to make for the final game. The animation includes text frequently appearing with what is happening on board the ship. This includes visuals of various interior rooms flooding, lifeboats launching, rockets firing, and the Californian on the horizon. The animation was created in Unreal Engine 4. The exterior model used is not our final model, but an older model created by one of our team members.’

>www.titanichg.com/ 2hrs 40m

>There are no people in this version, just a deserted ship subsiding sloowly into the icy water. Nonetheless it is remarkably spooky - the sinking experienced as a bad dream from which you can't wake.

>I found it researching for the previous item.


Message 2e5624fb00A-10219-1152+5a.htm, number 128304, was posted on Sun Dec 24 at 19:11:35
in reply to 90a0626000A-10219-818-90.htm

Re: Should have posted this a day or two ago. Anyway, merry Christmas!

Max


It's the North Pole, Jake.

On Sun Dec 24, YA wrote
-----------------------
i.imgur.com/yH25jLZ.gifv
>Can you hear the new  dialog in their voices? I can.


Message aedaa13200A-10219-1327-07.htm, number 128305, was posted on Sun Dec 24 at 22:07:30
Annual posting of “Christmas at Sea” from Durham Cathedral

Hoyden


m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxZNTZhloiQ

Message 6242b05700A-10220-101+59.htm, number 128306, was posted on Mon Dec 25 at 01:43:23
in reply to 2e5624fb00A-10219-1152+5a.htm

Re^2: Should have posted this a day or two ago. Anyway, merry Christmas!

YA


hah!


he's my father!
*smack*
he's my son!
*smack*
he's the holy spirit!
*smack*


In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti, nolite probabilitatem bonam mecum.

On Sun Dec 24, Max wrote
------------------------
>It's the North Pole, Jake.

>On Sun Dec 24, YA wrote
>-----------------------
>i.imgur.com/yH25jLZ.gifv
>>Can you hear the new  dialog in their voices? I can.


Message 2e5624fb00A-10220-281+59.htm, number 128307, was posted on Mon Dec 25 at 04:41:40
in reply to 6242b05700A-10220-101+59.htm

Re^3: Should have posted this a day or two ago. Anyway, merry Christmas!

Max


Here's Santa!!


n Mon Dec 25, YA wrote
-----------------------
>hah!
>
>
>he's my father!
>*smack*
>he's my son!
>*smack*
>he's the holy spirit!
>*smack*
>
>
>In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti, nolite probabilitatem bonam mecum.

>On Sun Dec 24, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>It's the North Pole, Jake.

>>On Sun Dec 24, YA wrote
>>-----------------------
>>i.imgur.com/yH25jLZ.gifv
>>>Can you hear the new  dialog in their voices? I can.


Message 4747f4808HW-10220-832+56.htm, number 128308, was posted on Mon Dec 25 at 13:52:45
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10216-851+5a.htm

Re: Titanic Sinks in Real-Time

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I watched it all the way through—couldn't tear my eyes away.  Much of the middle I watched at double speed, and at some points I kept thinking I was going to give up and go away.  Each time, I then realized "no, I'm not, I'm going to watch the whole thing, I can tell".  Yes, spooky, as you said.  Thanks, Chrístõ.

On Thu Dec 21, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>
>'From our upcoming video game "Titanic: Honor and Glory" This is a rough draft ("pre-vis") of our sinking animation. Be sure to contribute to help make our project a reality!'

>'This is our full-length animation of the Titanic sinking, beginning with the iceberg collision and ending with its disappearance. The point of collision is at 1:06. This is a complete animation; not a short animation that was slowed down to match real time. This is also highly accurate, though we have already documented improvements we plan to make for the final game. The animation includes text frequently appearing with what is happening on board the ship. This includes visuals of various interior rooms flooding, lifeboats launching, rockets firing, and the Californian on the horizon. The animation was created in Unreal Engine 4. The exterior model used is not our final model, but an older model created by one of our team members.’

>www.titanichg.com/ 2hrs 40m

>There are no people in this version, just a deserted ship subsiding sloowly into the icy water. Nonetheless it is remarkably spooky - the sinking experienced as a bad dream from which you can't wake.

>I found it researching for the previous item.


Message 6242b05700A-10220-963+59.htm, number 128309, was posted on Mon Dec 25 at 16:03:00
in reply to 2e5624fb00A-10220-281+59.htm

Re^4: Should have posted this a day or two ago. Anyway, merry Christmas!

YA


Tell Mrs. Claus to go yule herself, I ain't goin' on noël detail!


On Mon Dec 25, Max wrote
------------------------
>>Here's Santa!!
>
>
>n Mon Dec 25, YA wrote
>-----------------------
>>hah!
>>
>>
>>he's my father!
>>*smack*
>>he's my son!
>>*smack*
>>he's the holy spirit!
>>*smack*
>>
>>
>>In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti, nolite probabilitatem bonam mecum.

>>On Sun Dec 24, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>It's the North Pole, Jake.

>>>On Sun Dec 24, YA wrote
>>>-----------------------
>>>i.imgur.com/yH25jLZ.gifv
>>>>Can you hear the new  dialog in their voices? I can.


Message 2e5624fb00A-10220-1385+59.htm, number 128310, was posted on Mon Dec 25 at 23:04:33
in reply to 6242b05700A-10220-963+59.htm

Re^5: Should have posted this a day or two ago. Anyway, merry Christmas!

Max


Carol: Why can't I have a normal Santa? Just a regular Santa, one that doesn't go nuts on me!
Beverly: Everybody wants that, dear. It doesn't exist.



Message 2e5624fb00A-10222-243-30.htm, number 128311, was posted on Wed Dec 27 at 04:03:29
Santa part 2

Max


Forget Nicholson, THIS is Santa:



youtu.be/VqG621-drmk

Message 90a0625f00A-10222-521+57.htm, number 128312, was posted on Wed Dec 27 at 08:40:38
in reply to 2e5624fb00A-10220-1385+59.htm

Re^6: Should have posted this a day or two ago. Anyway, merry Christmas!

YA


Where do I get all these wonderful toys?

or maybe:

Ever dance with a reindeer in the pale moonlight?

On Mon Dec 25, Max wrote
------------------------
>Carol: Why can't I have a normal Santa? Just a regular Santa, one that doesn't go nuts on me!
>Beverly: Everybody wants that, dear. It doesn't exist.
>
>
>


Message 2e5624fb00A-10222-841+57.htm, number 128313, was posted on Wed Dec 27 at 14:00:53
in reply to 90a0625f00A-10222-521+57.htm

Re^ Winner!

Max


Toys! Perfect.


On Wed Dec 27, YA wrote
-----------------------
>Where do I get all these wonderful toys?

>or maybe:

>Ever dance with a reindeer in the pale moonlight?

>On Mon Dec 25, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>Carol: Why can't I have a normal Santa? Just a regular Santa, one that doesn't go nuts on me!
>>Beverly: Everybody wants that, dear. It doesn't exist.
>>
>>
>>


Message 4747f4808HW-10223-869-30.htm, number 128314, was posted on Thu Dec 28 at 14:28:58
A reprise for the holidays

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I was looking at a recent thread below, and it suddenly occurred to me to hunt down and repost an exchange from some years ago, I think early 2005:

Max Trainer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Writing in someone elses style is an odd, but commercial, talent. I've done enough script polishing to know it ain't as easy as it looks.
 
The Last of the True French Short Bastards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It takes an ear for their vocabulary and sentence constructions.  That is a talent that I seem to have. I can't write my own fiction to save my life, but I'm half-decent at faking up someone else's style. The more distinctive they are, the easier it is.

It's easier still if you're writing a parody rather than a pastiche. O'Brian is eminently parodiable because of his repeated phrases: "smell of the slow-match drifting along the decks," "gun-captains glaring along the barrels," "the yellow seal, d'ye hear me?" etc.

I had to write audio recording scripts that sounded like football broadcaster John Madden. That wasn't terribly difficult. But I knew I'd get an earful if I got it wrong!

Max Trainer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Madden: (frantically diagramming) So then you fake coming upwind, spill your sheets and BOOM! get on the board with that first broadside.

"Ya gotta love the way this guy plays the game! 3 broadsides and a cloud of smoke."

"Man, that is old-time style. Straight at 'em. Ya gotta love it!"

"Whoa, the Captain really got clobbered that time! Don't worry. The doc is coming out to rub a little dirt in it. He'll be fine."

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've got the right idea.

"Jack Aubrey's one of those guys that, even when he's double-teamed, he's still gonna give you trouble."

"I tell you, that Maturin, you gotta watch him. You think you've got him covered, and then, WHIFF! he's got your leg off and is showin' it to all his friends."

"Tom Pullings got real beat up in a game against the Frenchies a few years back, so he's not the best-lookin' guy in the league, but when you need a lead schooner to distract the opposition, he's the guy you go to."

Max Trainer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is fun.

"Well, the Frenchies have the weight of metal, but you can never count out the Limeys. Remember Nile I? The French are like 0-fer-never on water on Monday Nights."

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, the Brits took a mauling from the Yanks last week in the War of 1812, and that hurt their morale. But in the long run it's experience and training that make the difference. I'll be surprised if the Frenchies get out of Toulon in the first quarter."

"Now see, what you want for a taffrail party is sinkers: salt beef, salt pork, ship's biscuit -- stuff like that. You don't want any floaters -- none of that lightweight Frenchy food. You want stuff that you can take soundings with."

"Give that guy an albatross leg!"

"See, Villeneuve, over here, he's thinking Nelson's gonna use the I formation and spread his forces all along the French line of scrimmage. But instead, Nelson goes for the old double wing -- breaks through the line in two places. The guys up here on the end are out of the action and can't get back. By the time they've figured out what's goin' on, Nelson's wipin' the floor with the rest of their fleet. 'Course, he got taken down with a late hit right at the end of the play, and it doesn't look like he'll be back."

Max Trainer:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL You win! I can't top this.


Message 2e5624fb00A-10223-1114+1e.htm, number 128315, was posted on Thu Dec 28 at 18:34:17
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10223-869-30.htm

Re: A reprise for the holidays

Max


I forgot all about this exchange. I think at one point I actually wrote excerpts "as written by" Tolstoy, Salinger, etc.
Good catch, Bob.



On Thu Dec 28, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>I was looking at a recent thread below, and it suddenly occurred to me to hunt down and repost an exchange from some years ago, I think early 2005:

>Max Trainer
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Writing in someone elses style is an odd, but commercial, talent. I've done enough script polishing to know it ain't as easy as it looks.
>  
>The Last of the True French Short Bastards
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>It takes an ear for their vocabulary and sentence constructions.  That is a talent that I seem to have. I can't write my own fiction to save my life, but I'm half-decent at faking up someone else's style. The more distinctive they are, the easier it is.

>It's easier still if you're writing a parody rather than a pastiche. O'Brian is eminently parodiable because of his repeated phrases: "smell of the slow-match drifting along the decks," "gun-captains glaring along the barrels," "the yellow seal, d'ye hear me?" etc.

>I had to write audio recording scripts that sounded like football broadcaster John Madden. That wasn't terribly difficult. But I knew I'd get an earful if I got it wrong!

>Max Trainer
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>John Madden: (frantically diagramming) So then you fake coming upwind, spill your sheets and BOOM! get on the board with that first broadside.

>"Ya gotta love the way this guy plays the game! 3 broadsides and a cloud of smoke."

>"Man, that is old-time style. Straight at 'em. Ya gotta love it!"

>"Whoa, the Captain really got clobbered that time! Don't worry. The doc is coming out to rub a little dirt in it. He'll be fine."

>The Last of the True French Short Bastards
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>You've got the right idea.

>"Jack Aubrey's one of those guys that, even when he's double-teamed, he's still gonna give you trouble."

>"I tell you, that Maturin, you gotta watch him. You think you've got him covered, and then, WHIFF! he's got your leg off and is showin' it to all his friends."

>"Tom Pullings got real beat up in a game against the Frenchies a few years back, so he's not the best-lookin' guy in the league, but when you need a lead schooner to distract the opposition, he's the guy you go to."

>Max Trainer
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>This is fun.

>"Well, the Frenchies have the weight of metal, but you can never count out the Limeys. Remember Nile I? The French are like 0-fer-never on water on Monday Nights."

>The Last of the True French Short Bastards
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Well, the Brits took a mauling from the Yanks last week in the War of 1812, and that hurt their morale. But in the long run it's experience and training that make the difference. I'll be surprised if the Frenchies get out of Toulon in the first quarter."

>"Now see, what you want for a taffrail party is sinkers: salt beef, salt pork, ship's biscuit -- stuff like that. You don't want any floaters -- none of that lightweight Frenchy food. You want stuff that you can take soundings with."

>"Give that guy an albatross leg!"

>"See, Villeneuve, over here, he's thinking Nelson's gonna use the I formation and spread his forces all along the French line of scrimmage. But instead, Nelson goes for the old double wing -- breaks through the line in two places. The guys up here on the end are out of the action and can't get back. By the time they've figured out what's goin' on, Nelson's wipin' the floor with the rest of their fleet. 'Course, he got taken down with a late hit right at the end of the play, and it doesn't look like he'll be back."

>Max Trainer:
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>LOL You win! I can't top this.
>


Message 56003e26cb5-10223-1215+1e.htm, number 128316, was posted on Thu Dec 28 at 20:15:06
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10223-869-30.htm

Sheesh, I had completely forgotten that!

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



Re-reading it now I am suddenly struck with a horrifying thought: John Madden's diction is an awful lot like Donald Trump's.

Message 2e5624fb00A-10224-16+1d.htm, number 128317, was posted on Fri Dec 29 at 00:16:08
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10223-1215+1e.htm

Re: Sheesh, I had completely forgotten that!

Max


Same level of complexity but Madden knew what he was talking about.


On Thu Dec 28, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>Re-reading it now I am suddenly struck with a horrifying thought: John Madden's diction is an awful lot like Donald Trump's.

Message 56003e26cb5-10224-678+1d.htm, number 128318, was posted on Fri Dec 29 at 11:18:35
in reply to 2e5624fb00A-10224-16+1d.htm

Re^2: Sheesh, I had completely forgotten that!

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com


Madden could also form complete sentences and speak extemporaneously (what else IS football broadcasting?). He's a genius in his own way. Scarily, he even looks kind of like Trump -- big blond white guy who still has his hair.



Message 5deca22e00A-10224-865+1d.htm, number 128319, was posted on Fri Dec 29 at 14:24:53
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10224-678+1d.htm

Re^3: Sheesh, I had completely forgotten that!

Max


Pumping 300lbs of suet into a 200lb sack does produce a distinctive look.



On Fri Dec 29, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>Madden could also form complete sentences and speak extemporaneously (what else IS football broadcasting?). He's a genius in his own way. Scarily, he even looks kind of like Trump -- big blond white guy who still has his hair.

>
>


Message 50e5a913p13-10225-727-07.htm, number 128320, was posted on Sat Dec 30 at 12:06:43
‘Why is it impossible to visit St Brendan's Island in the Atlantic?' . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


St Brendan's island
. . is today’s question from Oxford Reference; visit www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E0372 to find the answer.

Message 50e5a913p13-10225-746-07.htm, number 128321, was posted on Sat Dec 30 at 12:26:27
‘In maritime history what was the purpose of a samson post?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . visit www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E2073 to find the answer to this question from Oxford Reference.

Message 5deca22e00A-10226-778-30.htm, number 128322, was posted on Sun Dec 31 at 12:58:17
A New Years Message

Max


A friend of mine, Felix Lopez, sent me this. I was so taken by it I wanted to share it.


Happy New Year.

I hope it's a year full of integrity and courage on all our parts. I hope we can resist the temptation to be reactively indignant at all the unfairness and injustice in the world. I hope we can resist cynicism, which corrodes the heart. I hope we can forgive ourselves for not knowing better or being better. We can only try or keep trying. I hope--as Faulkner said of writers--that we can help one another to lift he heart and endure. It's not only what writers do, it's what friends do.

With much affection,

Felix


Message 48c466b500A-10229-661+1b.htm, number 128323, was posted on Tue Jan 2 at 11:01:06
in reply to 5deca22e00A-10226-778-30.htm

Re: A New Years Message

A-Polly


Thank you for sharing this, Max.  I've got it almost memorized, from reading it over so many times.  

Happy 2018 to all.


On Sun Dec 31, Max wrote
------------------------
>A friend of mine, Felix Lopez, sent me this. I was so taken by it I wanted to share it.
>
>
>Happy New Year.

>I hope it's a year full of integrity and courage on all our parts. I hope we can resist the temptation to be reactively indignant at all the unfairness and injustice in the world. I hope we can resist cynicism, which corrodes the heart. I hope we can forgive ourselves for not knowing better or being better. We can only try or keep trying. I hope--as Faulkner said of writers--that we can help one another to lift he heart and endure. It's not only what writers do, it's what friends do.

>With much affection,

>Felix


Message 50e5a913p13-10235-742-90.htm, number 128324, was posted on Mon Jan 8 at 12:21:49
Relics of Nelson and Trafalgar to be auctioned

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
Nelson's ships sailed into battle at Trafalgar flying the national flag rather than just their squadron colours, as a result of an order issued by Nelson in the days before the battle: "When in the presence of an Enemy, all the Ships under my command are to bear white Colours [i.e. St George's Ensign], and a Union Jack is to be suspended from the fore top-gallant stay". 

HMS Victory’s two Union flags and a St George's Ensign . . were returned to England with the ship and the body of Nelson . . a vast procession followed Nelson's remains to St Paul's Cathedral . . (including) a group of 48 seamen . . from HMS Victory, who bore with them the ship's three battle ensigns . .
At the conclusion of the funeral service, with the coffin placed at the heart of the cathedral beneath Wren's great dome, the sailors were supposed to fold the flags and place them reverently on the coffin. The conclusion of the service, in fact, played out rather differently, as described by the Naval Chronicle (1806):

"the Comptroller, Treasurer and Steward of his Lordship's household then broke their staves, and gave the pieces to Garter, who threw then into the grave, in which all the flags of the Victory, furled up by the sailors were deposited - These brave fellows, however, desirous of retaining some memorials of their great and favourite commander, had torn off a considerable part of the largest flag, of which most of them obtained a portion." 

lot 116 'The Victory Jack’ Est. 80,000 — 100,000 GBP
………………………..
‘He was one of Britain’s greatest military leaders but letters coming up for auction in the new year reveal a less noble side to Admiral Lord Nelson: petulant, jealous and complaining. Two of the letters are from Nelson to his lover Emma Hamilton, another is written by Hamilton and a fourth features the couple writing together. They shed fascinating light on Nelson, his palpable and obvious love for Hamilton, and how he was probably more at ease when he was fighting.
“I’m afraid it is often the case that Nelson is not at his best when he is inactive,” said Gabriel Heaton, a books and manuscripts specialist at Sotheby’s, which will sell the letters. “In the final letter you can just sense the frustration, he can complain quite a lot … he is itching to get back to what he knows he does best.” . . The letters will feature in a sale on 17 January . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/27/petulant-jealous-lord-nelson-letters-reveal-less-noble-side
www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.134.html/2018/of-royal-and-noble-descent-l18306
www.sothebys.com/en/search-results.html?keyword=nelson+letters
lots 133 - 134


Message cedfbdfannW-10238-1001+57.htm, number 128325, was posted on Thu Jan 11 at 16:41:34
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10235-742-90.htm

Re: Relics of Nelson and Trafalgar to be auctioned

Tumblehome
benbarnes@sympatico.ca


If we pool our resources we could do this.  I'm holding out for a Nelson salt cellar tho.

(Hi, I"m still alive.  Ceilidh no longer gets on well with Chrome and I've been meaning to look in through a different browser since, well, a very long time ago).

Ben





On Mon Jan 8, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>image host
>Nelson's ships sailed into battle at Trafalgar flying the national flag rather than just their squadron colours, as a result of an order issued by Nelson in the days before the battle: "When in the presence of an Enemy, all the Ships under my command are to bear white Colours [i.e. St George's Ensign], and a Union Jack is to be suspended from the fore top-gallant stay". 

>HMS Victory’s two Union flags and a St George's Ensign . . were returned to England with the ship and the body of Nelson . . a vast procession followed Nelson's remains to St Paul's Cathedral . . (including) a group of 48 seamen . . from HMS Victory, who bore with them the ship's three battle ensigns . .
>At the conclusion of the funeral service, with the coffin placed at the heart of the cathedral beneath Wren's great dome, the sailors were supposed to fold the flags and place them reverently on the coffin. The conclusion of the service, in fact, played out rather differently, as described by the Naval Chronicle (1806):
>
> "the Comptroller, Treasurer and Steward of his Lordship's household then broke their staves, and gave the pieces to Garter, who threw then into the grave, in which all the flags of the Victory, furled up by the sailors were deposited - These brave fellows, however, desirous of retaining some memorials of their great and favourite commander, had torn off a considerable part of the largest flag, of which most of them obtained a portion." 
>

>lot 116 'The Victory Jack’ Est. 80,000 — 100,000 GBP
>………………………..
>‘He was one of Britain’s greatest military leaders but letters coming up for auction in the new year reveal a less noble side to Admiral Lord Nelson: petulant, jealous and complaining. Two of the letters are from Nelson to his lover Emma Hamilton, another is written by Hamilton and a fourth features the couple writing together. They shed fascinating light on Nelson, his palpable and obvious love for Hamilton, and how he was probably more at ease when he was fighting.
>“I’m afraid it is often the case that Nelson is not at his best when he is inactive,” said Gabriel Heaton, a books and manuscripts specialist at Sotheby’s, which will sell the letters. “In the final letter you can just sense the frustration, he can complain quite a lot … he is itching to get back to what he knows he does best.” . . The letters will feature in a sale on 17 January . . ‘

>www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/27/petulant-jealous-lord-nelson-letters-reveal-less-noble-side
>www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.134.html/2018/of-royal-and-noble-descent-l18306
>www.sothebys.com/en/search-results.html?keyword=nelson+letters
>lots 133 - 134


Message 50e5a913p13-10239-430+56.htm, number 128326, was posted on Fri Jan 12 at 07:10:22
in reply to cedfbdfannW-10238-1001+57.htm

Re^2: Relics of Nelson and Trafalgar to be auctioned

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Jan 11, Tumblehome wrote
-------------------------------
. . (Hi, I"m still alive.  Ceilidh no longer gets on well with Chrome and I've been meaning to look in through a different browser since, well, a very long time ago).

Under Mac OS I can read POB Forum in Chrome OK but not edit it. So I use another, Mac only, browser called iCab from Germany www.icab.de/ to post and edit.

Message 61518b1d8HW-10242-684-30.htm, number 128327, was posted on Mon Jan 15 at 11:25:31
Race 6, Day 6: Crew Diary

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


My mom follows the Clipper-Round-the-World race and sent me this, which I think many of you will enjoy as much as I do.  An extract:
....We have just passed Brisbane, which is about two thirds of the race distance but we are already inside the arrival window; our Ocean Sprint was more of an ocean perambulation as the winds faded, veered, backed or disappeared, and any optimistic calculations about when we might arrive are dismissed by crewmates as totally delusional.

But while the fickle winds are testing our patience and stirring up our frustrations, we cannot escape the fact that it is beautiful out here. We have had a a series of calm, balmy nights with the warm night air cooling our skin and the gentle swish, if we are lucky, of water rushing at our stern. Last night the matte black, featureless skies were replaced by the most wonderful display of stars. I had a series of stars to steer by and then, when my time at the helm was over, hung onto the push-pit, leaned back and gazed upwards at tens of thousands of stars, the milky way, passing satellites and a sequence of falling meteorites or space debris. Glorious!

This morning we went on deck to a sky dotted with perfect Magritte picture book clouds of bubbling cumulus, set against a blue sky immaculately graded from light grey blue on the horizon to the deep royal blue of our upper atmosphere directly above us. What a change from the apocalyptic, Tintoretto cloud formations of the Southern Ocean!...

We have placed ourselves at the mercy of the winds and waves. You will have read the dramatic accounts of the sudden squall of brutal winds that flattened the fleet three nights ago, which had been preceded by hours of patient, upwind sailing in the most delicate and temperamental of breezes. Minutes later we were back to fading, teasing winds that made progress against the strong current impossible. A testing series of sail changes from Code 1 spinnaker, to Code 2, to Windseeker, Yankee 1 and Windseeker, all in the attempt to remain stationary!

We will all return to a life of timetables, diary commitments and routine soon enough. For now we are enjoying a very privileged test of our patience, in the most beautiful of settings.


Message 50e5a913p13-10243-411-07.htm, number 128328, was posted on Tue Jan 16 at 06:51:26
‘Geoducks are the largest burrowing clams in the world. How much may a large one weigh?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . was Saturday’s question from Oxford Reference; find the answer at www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199677337%2E013%2E1018

Message 50e5a913p13-10243-412-07.htm, number 128329, was posted on Tue Jan 16 at 06:52:16
‘In maritime law who enacted the Laws of Oleron?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



. .  . . was Sunday’s question from Oxford Reference; find the answer at www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1729

Message 50e5a913p13-10243-412+07.htm, number 128329, was edited on Tue Jan 16 at 10:00:46
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10243-412-07.htm

‘In maritime law who enacted the Laws of Oleron?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
. .  . . was Sunday’s question from Oxford Reference; find the answer at www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1729

[ This message was edited on Tue Jan 16 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10245-798-90.htm, number 128330, was posted on Thu Jan 18 at 13:19:04
Jac’s barometer* . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . or one very like it, is up for auction next Tuesday:
image host image host
A Gerorgian (sic) Mahogany Stick Barometer - Auctioneer's estimate: 300 GBP - 500 GBP
www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/londonauctions/catalogue-id-london10092/lot-69620bb0-38df-4054-9503-a86a00d0a666
………..
* baromete , n. . . Greek βάρος weigh . . a. An instrument for determining the weight or pressure of the atmosphere, and hence for judging of probable changes in the weather, ascertaining the height of an ascent, etc. The common barometer is a straight glass tube, 34 inches long and closed at the top, filled with mercury, and inverted in an open cup of the same liquid . .
1666 Philos. Trans. 1665–6 (Royal Soc.) 1 153 A Barometer or Baroscope first made publick by that Noble Searcher of Nature, Mr. Boyle.

OED


Message 50e5a913p13-10245-798+5a.htm, number 128330, was edited on Thu Jan 18 at 13:20:24
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10245-798-90.htm

Jac’s barometer* . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . or one very like it, is up for auction next Tuesday:
image host image host
A Gerorgian (sic) Mahogany Stick Barometer - Auctioneer's estimate: 300 GBP - 500 GBP
www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/londonauctions/catalogue-id-london10092/lot-69620bb0-38df-4054-9503-a86a00d
………..
* barometer , n. . .   Greek βάρος weigh . . a. An instrument for determining the weight or pressure of the atmosphere, and hence for judging of probable changes in the weather, ascertaining the height of an ascent, etc. The common barometer is a straight glass tube, 34 inches long and closed at the top, filled with mercury, and inverted in an open cup of the same liquid .  .
1666   Philos. Trans. 1665–6 (Royal Soc.) 1 153   A Barometer or Baroscope first made publick by that Noble Searcher of Nature, Mr. Boyle.

OED

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 18 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10245-798+5a.htm, number 128330, was edited on Thu Jan 18 at 13:21:04
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10245-798-90.htm

Jac’s barometer* . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . or one very like it, is up for auction next Tuesday:
image host image host
A Gerorgian (sic) Mahogany Stick Barometer - Auctioneer's estimate: 300 GBP - 500 GBP
www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/londonauctions/catalogue-id-london10092/lot-69620bb0-38df-4054-9503-a86a00d
………..
* barometer , n. . .   Greek βάρος weigh . . a. An instrument for determining the weight or pressure of the atmosphere, and hence for judging of probable changes in the weather, ascertaining the height of an ascent, etc. The common barometer is a straight glass tube, 34 inches long and closed at the top, filled with mercury, and inverted in an open cup of the same liquid .  .
1666   Philos. Trans. 1665–6 (Royal Soc.) 1 153   A Barometer or Baroscope first made publick by that Noble Searcher of Nature, Mr. Boyle.

OED

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 18 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10245-798+07.htm, number 128330, was edited on Thu Jan 18 at 13:23:57
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10245-798+5a.htm

Jack’s barometer* . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . or one very like it, is up for auction next Tuesday:
image host image host
A Gerorgian (sic) Mahogany Stick Barometer - Auctioneer's estimate: 300 GBP - 500 GBP
www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/londonauctions/catalogue-id-london10092/lot-69620bb0-38df-4054-9503-a86a00d
………..
* barometer , n. . .   Greek βάρος weigh . . a. An instrument for determining the weight or pressure of the atmosphere, and hence for judging of probable changes in the weather, ascertaining the height of an ascent, etc. The common barometer is a straight glass tube, 34 inches long and closed at the top, filled with mercury, and inverted in an open cup of the same liquid .  .
1666   Philos. Trans. 1665–6 (Royal Soc.) 1 153   A Barometer or Baroscope first made publick by that Noble Searcher of Nature, Mr. Boyle.

OED

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 18 by the author ]


Message cc0b710c00A-10246-573-07.htm, number 128331, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 09:32:31
Has the forum gotten boring?

Max


Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 61518b1d8HW-10246-628+07.htm, number 128332, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 10:27:47
in reply to cc0b710c00A-10246-573-07.htm

Re: Has the forum gotten boring?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
------------------------
>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 0cb7a53700A-10246-735+07.htm, number 128333, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 12:15:15
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10246-628+07.htm

Re^2: Has the forum gotten boring?

Max



Okay then.
I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.


On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 48c466b500A-10246-783+07.htm, number 128334, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 13:03:27
in reply to 0cb7a53700A-10246-735+07.htm

Re^3: Has the forum gotten boring?

A-Polly


Preaching to the choir, Max.  At least in this small blue dot on the Florida map.  Guess that doesn't make for much controversy yet, but I'm sure it will come!


On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
------------------------
>>Okay then.
>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.
>
>
>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 0cb7a53700A-10246-808+07.htm, number 128335, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 13:28:26
in reply to 48c466b500A-10246-783+07.htm

Re^4: Has the forum gotten boring?

Max


Last time I got blasted by a long time poster. The rap was the now familiar play book. I only read fake news aka the New York Times and how I had never really been a republican, etc.
Very personal. No facts.
Well, we've had a year of that utter miserable worthless dolt.
Waiting for the real republicans to explain what a success this crap fest has been


n Fri Jan 19, A-Polly wrote
----------------------------
>Preaching to the choir, Max.  At least in this small blue dot on the Florida map.  Guess that doesn't make for much controversy yet, but I'm sure it will come!
>
>
>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>>Okay then.
>>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.
>>
>>
>>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>------------------------
>>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message d897bf2a8YV-10246-908+07.htm, number 128336, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 15:07:44
in reply to 0cb7a53700A-10246-808+07.htm

Re^5: Has the forum gotten boring?

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


The 'real republican' success story is that Trump revised the tax code and revoked all of those nasty environmental regulations.  Success!!!

Now all of that 'trickle down' money from the vastly more wealthy can save us all.  Reagan said it, therefore it must be true.  (The fact that it didn't work when he tried it doesn't count.)  Facts have no place in the Trump WH.

I love that Trump compares himself to Reagan, who was stricken with Alzheimer's while in office. But incompetence, nepotism and cronyism are all normalized now.

3 more years...will Mitt run again?  I'm even seeing the old Colin Powell rumors revived.

On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
------------------------
>Last time I got blasted by a long time poster. The rap was the now familiar play book. I only read fake news aka the New York Times and how I had never really been a republican, etc.
>Very personal. No facts.
>Well, we've had a year of that utter miserable worthless dolt.
>Waiting for the real republicans to explain what a success this crap fest has been
>
>
>n Fri Jan 19, A-Polly wrote
>----------------------------
>>Preaching to the choir, Max.  At least in this small blue dot on the Florida map.  Guess that doesn't make for much controversy yet, but I'm sure it will come!
>>
>>
>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>>Okay then.
>>>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>>>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>--------------------------------
>>>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>>------------------------
>>>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 4c66135900A-10246-1226+07.htm, number 128337, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 20:25:37
in reply to 0cb7a53700A-10246-735+07.htm

Re^3: Has the forum gotten boring?

jag wag


On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote

I thought the comment was supposed to be controversial.
------------------------
>>Okay then.
>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.
>
>
>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 6bd5c1a400A-10246-1258+07.htm, number 128338, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 20:58:21
in reply to 4c66135900A-10246-1226+07.htm

Interesting Anagram

Lee Shore


Shit Hole = His Hotel

On Fri Jan 19, jag wag wrote
----------------------------
>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote

>I thought the comment was supposed to be controversial.
>------------------------
>>>Okay then.
>>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.
>>
>>
>>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>------------------------
>>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 4c729d1400A-10246-1429+04.htm, number 128339, was posted on Fri Jan 19 at 23:49:13
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10243-411-07.htm

Re: ‘Geoducks are the largest burrowing clams in the world. How much may a large one weigh?’ . .

Steve Sheridan


Sixty years or so ago, my uncle pressed a recording for his nephews entitled "Oooey Gooeyduck". Unfortunately, I can only remember the first line - "I'm Oooey Gooeyduck, and I'm stuck in the muck".

Message 6a469af000A-10247-532+06.htm, number 128340, was posted on Sat Jan 20 at 08:51:38
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10246-628+07.htm

Re^2: Has the forum gotten boring?

wombat


On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------


>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

OK. Something to controverse about. Compulsory voting. Has that been tried in US Presidential elections?

God knows, we marsupials have enough political ratbags of our own but we also have developed the habit of voting. Though the fines for not doing so are tiny, 93 per of the eligible population votes. It been keeping our ratbag element marginal.


Message 50e5a913p13-10247-583-07.htm, number 128341, was posted on Sat Jan 20 at 09:42:48
‘In Greek mythology how did Apollo punish Cassandra for refusing his advances?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
. . is today's question from Oxford Reference. Visit www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195156690%2E013%2E0289 to find the answer.

Message 50e5a913p13-10247-585-07.htm, number 128342, was posted on Sat Jan 20 at 09:44:45
'In meteorology what is a Hadley cell?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199541447%2E013%2E0758 to find the answer to today's question from Oxford Reference.

Message 6cadb064gpf-10247-840+06.htm, number 128343, was posted on Sat Jan 20 at 14:00:26
in reply to 6a469af000A-10247-532+06.htm

Re^3: Has the forum gotten boring?

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Max, what a fine fellow you are, for stepping out on a limb in an attempt to revive the beloved forum.
Re your president: My tendency is to afford the benefit of the doubt and respect the institution. However the view from up here is that we have entered some weird twilight zone, the likes of which has never been seen before and the usual touchstones do not appear or apply.
However, what do I know, as my growing habit is to ignore it all as much as possible and concentrate on things I can do something about. Reading books, for example, and not ones about current politics.

For a fun time I can recommend Michael Crichton's posthumous 'Dragon Teeth,' which makes hay with the 'Bone Wars' of the mid 1870s, sending a fossil expedition into Montana Territory just after the incident at Little Bighorn.
'Minds of Winter' is a lovely and mysterious story of Arctic adventure and misadventure, by the Irish writer Ed O'Loughlin.
I'm also sailing through Philip Ziegler's 'Edward VIII'. This is a long-term project. I've set it aside just now, seeking relief in a couple of Muriel Spark novels. She is very good.


On Sat Jan 20, wombat wrote
---------------------------
>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>
>
>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>OK. Something to controverse about. Compulsory voting. Has that been tried in US Presidential elections?

>God knows, we marsupials have enough political ratbags of our own but we also have developed the habit of voting. Though the fines for not doing so are tiny, 93 per of the eligible population votes. It been keeping our ratbag element marginal.

>


Message 61518b1d8HW-10247-1397+06.htm, number 128344, was posted on Sat Jan 20 at 23:17:38
in reply to 0cb7a53700A-10246-735+07.htm

Well, purely for the sake of controversy...

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Disclaimer:  I didn't vote for him, and I despise how he talks about women and Mexicans.  Probably others, too, if I'd been listening.  But this was my idea, so I should help it along a little:

  • "Moron"?  Obviously untrue.  You mean the word as you would mean scores of words like it that are used not in their literal senses but only to mean "I don't like him and I want him to feel bad about himself", such as jerk, bastard, stupid, poo-poo head and the like.

  • "Corrupt"?  I don't disbelieve you but I'm interested in the particulars.  I've heard lots of charges of corruption against other politicians, mostly of the other party (which may indicate only who's been talking to me), but I don't recall charges of overt corruption against Trump.  What have you in mind?

  • "Unfit for office": I don't see how I'm qualified to opine on any definition of fitness except my own—and since he got elected President, apparently my definitions isn't relevant.

    Let's try this: Is there any recent President—since Eisenhower, say—about whom a significant portion of the voting public didn't say "unfit for office"?

On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
------------------------
>>Okay then.
>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.

>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 61518b1d8HW-10247-1400+07.htm, number 128345, was posted on Sat Jan 20 at 23:20:31
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10247-583-07.htm

I think I know this one

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Cassandra, isn't she the one who was cursed with being able to accurately foresee impending disaster but no one would believe her warnings?

On Sat Jan 20, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>image host
> . . is today's question from Oxford Reference. Visit www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195156690%2E013%2E0289 to find the answer.


Message 4cdac2ec00A-10248-46+05.htm, number 128346, was posted on Sun Jan 21 at 00:46:29
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10247-1397+06.htm

Re: Well, purely for the sake of controversy...

Max


Bob, if you want to present a defense of Trump you have to present a defense of Trump. Not Truman or Nixon. So, no I decline your invitation to make things so relativistic that they have no meaning. “Guilty you say – aren’t we all guilty of something”.  Nor will I expand the discussion beyond the hope of clarity “isn’t everybody accused of something sometime”


Since you ask, I have cited a few easily understood summaries explaining my use of certain phrases. I would have called him a vagina but that would have been inaccurate as he lacks the warmth and depth.

Corrupt – docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-_vJDLlCtd94zaieFeB2qdLB9WUdNPIryWBFNuXAAZ8/edit#gid=397855752

Unfit for office - http://cohen.house.gov/sites/cohen.house.gov/files/documents/Resolution%20of%20No%20Confidence%20in%20Donald%20J.%20Trump.pdf



Moron



Moron - nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/fine-trump-doesnt-have-dementia-hes-just-a-moron.html

www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-wanted-dramatic-increase-nuclear-arsenal-meeting-military-leaders-n809701





On Sat Jan 20, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Disclaimer:  I didn't vote for him, and I despise how he talks about women and Mexicans.  Probably others, too, if I'd been listening.  But this was my idea, so I should help it along a little:

>

  • "Moron"?  Obviously untrue.  You mean the word as you would mean scores of words like it that are used not in their literal senses but only to mean "I don't like him and I want him to feel bad about himself", such as jerk, bastard, stupid, poo-poo head and the like.

    >

  • "Corrupt"?  I don't disbelieve you but I'm interested in the particulars.  I've heard lots of charges of corruption against other politicians, mostly of the other party (which may indicate only who's been talking to me), but I don't recall charges of overt corruption against Trump.  What have you in mind?

    >

  • "Unfit for office": I don't see how I'm qualified to opine on any definition of fitness except my own—and since he got elected President, apparently my definitions isn't relevant.

    >Let's try this: Is there any recent President—since Eisenhower, say—about whom a significant portion of the voting public didn't say "unfit for office"?

>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>>Okay then.
>>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.

>>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>------------------------
>>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 90a0626000A-10248-585+05.htm, number 128347, was posted on Sun Jan 21 at 09:45:16
in reply to 0cb7a53700A-10246-808+07.htm

Really. Now that we have Marine Recon playing with SOCOM, who needs the SEALs anymore anyway?

YA


lol jk idc.

There. If that doesn't rattle that monkey's cage, you can be assured he's off elsewhere betraying his country with His Good Friend Eric Prince.

or somebody got grandpa back on his meds again.




On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
------------------------
>Last time I got blasted by a long time poster. The rap was the now familiar play book. I only read fake news aka the New York Times and how I had never really been a republican, etc.
>Very personal. No facts.
>Well, we've had a year of that utter miserable worthless dolt.
>Waiting for the real republicans to explain what a success this crap fest has been
>
>
>n Fri Jan 19, A-Polly wrote
>----------------------------
>>Preaching to the choir, Max.  At least in this small blue dot on the Florida map.  Guess that doesn't make for much controversy yet, but I'm sure it will come!
>>
>>
>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>>Okay then.
>>>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>>>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>--------------------------------
>>>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>>------------------------
>>>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 90a0626000A-10248-586+05.htm, number 128348, was posted on Sun Jan 21 at 09:46:57
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10248-46+05.htm

Re^2: Well, purely for the sake of controversy...

YA



On Sun Jan 21, Max wrote
------------------------
>Bob, if you want to present a defense of Trump you have to present a defense of Trump. Not Truman or Nixon. So, no I decline your invitation to make things so relativistic that they have no meaning. “Guilty you say – aren’t we all guilty of something”.  Nor will I expand the discussion beyond the hope of clarity “isn’t everybody accused of something sometime”
>
>
>Since you ask, I have cited a few easily understood summaries explaining my use of certain phrases. I would have called him a vagina but that would have been inaccurate as he lacks the warmth and depth.

>Corrupt – docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-_vJDLlCtd94zaieFeB2qdLB9WUdNPIryWBFNuXAAZ8/edit#gid=397855752
>

>Unfit for office - http://cohen.house.gov/sites/cohen.house.gov/files/documents/Resolution%20of%20No%20Confidence%20in%20Donald%20J.%20Trump.pdf
>
>
>
>Moron
>
>
>
>Moron
>
>
>
>Moron
>
>
>
>Moron - nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/fine-trump-doesnt-have-dementia-hes-just-a-moron.html

>www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-wanted-dramatic-increase-nuclear-arsenal-meeting-military-leaders-n809701
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sat Jan 20, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>Disclaimer:  I didn't vote for him, and I despise how he talks about women and Mexicans.  Probably others, too, if I'd been listening.  But this was my idea, so I should help it along a little:

>>

  • "Moron"?  Obviously untrue.  You mean the word as you would mean scores of words like it that are used not in their literal senses but only to mean "I don't like him and I want him to feel bad about himself", such as jerk, bastard, stupid, poo-poo head and the like.

    >>

  • "Corrupt"?  I don't disbelieve you but I'm interested in the particulars.  I've heard lots of charges of corruption against other politicians, mostly of the other party (which may indicate only who's been talking to me), but I don't recall charges of overt corruption against Trump.  What have you in mind?

    >>

  • "Unfit for office": I don't see how I'm qualified to opine on any definition of fitness except my own—and since he got elected President, apparently my definitions isn't relevant.

    >>Let's try this: Is there any recent President—since Eisenhower, say—about whom a significant portion of the voting public didn't say "unfit for office"?

>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>>Okay then.
>>>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>>>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.

>>>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>--------------------------------
>>>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger and grief, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>>------------------------
>>>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message d43867a100A-10248-943+05.htm, number 128349, was posted on Sun Jan 21 at 15:43:06
in reply to 6a469af000A-10247-532+06.htm

Re^3: Has the forum gotten boring?

Guest


On Sat Jan 20, wombat wrote
---------------------------
>OK. Something to controverse about. Compulsory voting. Has that been tried in US Presidential elections?

>God knows, we marsupials have enough political ratbags of our own but we also have developed the habit of voting. Though the fines for not doing so are tiny, 93 per of the eligible population votes. It been keeping our ratbag element marginal.

Do you have a 'none of the above' option? It doesn't seem reasonable to make voting compulsory without one.


Message 6a469af000A-10248-1167+05.htm, number 128350, was posted on Sun Jan 21 at 19:27:04
in reply to d43867a100A-10248-943+05.htm

Re^4: Has the forum gotten boring?

wombat


On Sun Jan 21, Guest wrote
--------------------------
>On Sat Jan 20, wombat wrote
>---------------------------
>>OK. Something to controverse about. Compulsory voting. Has that been tried in US Presidential elections?

>>God knows, we marsupials have enough political ratbags of our own but we also have developed the habit of voting. Though the fines for not doing so are tiny, 93 per of the eligible population votes. It been keeping our ratbag element marginal.

>Do you have a 'none of the above' option? It doesn't seem reasonable to make voting compulsory without one.


Of course. As it's a secret ballot you can "vote informal". You just have to turn up, have your name ticked off on the roll, and take the voting slip you are given. You can leave the boxes blank.


Message 4cdac2ec00A-10248-1188-30.htm, number 128351, was posted on Sun Jan 21 at 19:48:27
Forced vote from below

Max


Could work in a general election for President or even State Governor.
However, I suspect an utter disaster in an election for congress.
Putting mandatory voting into the current mix of republican voter intimidation and gerrymandering doesn't seem a good idea.

As a general matter Americans hate registering for anything.


Message 4cdac2ec00A-10248-1280+05.htm, number 128352, was posted on Sun Jan 21 at 21:20:02
in reply to 6a469af000A-10248-1167+05.htm

Re^5: Has the forum gotten boring?

Max


In the U.S. Some clown would change his name Informal or None of the above.

On Sun Jan 21, wombat wrote
---------------------------
>On Sun Jan 21, Guest wrote
>--------------------------
>>On Sat Jan 20, wombat wrote
>>---------------------------
>>>OK. Something to controverse about. Compulsory voting. Has that been tried in US Presidential elections?

>>>God knows, we marsupials have enough political ratbags of our own but we also have developed the habit of voting. Though the fines for not doing so are tiny, 93 per of the eligible population votes. It been keeping our ratbag element marginal.

>>Do you have a 'none of the above' option? It doesn't seem reasonable to make voting compulsory without one.
>
>
>Of course. As it's a secret ballot you can "vote informal". You just have to turn up, have your name ticked off on the roll, and take the voting slip you are given. You can leave the boxes blank.


Message 92c72b2f00A-10249-316+04.htm, number 128353, was posted on Mon Jan 22 at 05:16:51
in reply to 6a469af000A-10248-1167+05.htm

Re^5: Has the forum gotten boring?

Guest


On Sun Jan 21, wombat wrote
---------------------------
>On Sun Jan 21, Guest wrote
>--------------------------
>>On Sat Jan 20, wombat wrote
>>---------------------------
>>>OK. Something to controverse about. Compulsory voting. Has that been tried in US Presidential elections?

>>>God knows, we marsupials have enough political ratbags of our own but we also have developed the habit of voting. Though the fines for not doing so are tiny, 93 per of the eligible population votes. It been keeping our ratbag element marginal.

>>Do you have a 'none of the above' option? It doesn't seem reasonable to make voting compulsory without one.
>
>
>Of course. As it's a secret ballot you can "vote informal". You just have to turn up, have your name ticked off on the roll, and take the voting slip you are given. You can leave the boxes blank.

Of course it's a secret ballot. I was being stupid. I still think there's a case for formalizing that option though.


Message d897bf2a8YV-10249-735+05.htm, number 128354, was posted on Mon Jan 22 at 12:15:33
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10247-1400+07.htm

A feeling every parent knows....(NT)

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


On Sat Jan 20, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Cassandra, isn't she the one who was cursed with being able to accurately foresee impending disaster but no one would believe her warnings?

>On Sat Jan 20, Chrístõ wrote
>----------------------------
>>image host
>> . . is today's question from Oxford Reference. Visit www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195156690%2E013%2E0289 to find the answer.


Message 61518b1d8HW-10249-794+05.htm, number 128355, was posted on Mon Jan 22 at 13:14:04
in reply to d897bf2a8YV-10249-735+05.htm

Oddly enough...

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


It's not that I disagree, but I have one surprising counter-example to offer.  I remember well as a child my father or mother telling me and my sister and brother to settle down, and of course as children swept off our feet by the hilarity of the moment (rough-housing, joking around, whatever) we could barely hear the admonition, much less submit to it.  Tears inevitably followed.

I didn't require as much in the way of settling down from my kids.  I sort of like the cheerful calling out and the occasional crashes; they were required to be still in church and other gatherings of adults, and actual screaming during play was forbidden ("screaming is for when you're in trouble"), but a certain amount of chaos bothers me less, apparently, than it does some unfortunate adults.  Still, there are times.

So one day when I told my kids they were going to have to settle down, I didn't entertain much hope of it doing any good.  But five or ten minutes later I said something like this:  "Kids, here's what's going to happen:  I'm telling you to settle down, and you're kids so you don't know how to settle down.  So pretty soon, you're going to get hurt, and then there'll be crying, because you didn't settle down.  Or you'll break something, and then I'll spank you because you didn't settle down, and there'll be crying.  Just remember, I told you ahead of time:  It's Going to Happen."

So five or ten minutes later there was crying, as I prophesied.  Now fast-forward to the next time I made that speech...

...And to my surprise, they actually heard me the second time, or maybe it was the third.  Apparently the prediction plus its fulfillment actually penetrated.  After that, they seemed to understand the concept of accidentally incurring doom (in whatever form) and were able to forestall it to some extent.  I do not of course mean that they always obeyed me in every detail, but this matter of "settle down or something bad will happen" seemed to mean something to them.  I have no explanation to offer and I certainly cannot claim that it'll work like that for everyone.  But I usually have the urge to explain things (as I felt my parents didn't do enough for me), and apparently it can help sometimes.

I'm much more in sympathy with the kid whom his parents don't believe.  I'm thinking, for example, of the kid at the start of The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming (one of the very best movies in history that no one's ever heard of).  Or in fact of a recent protracted effort on my part to get a vendor to hear my description of a problem in their product:  It wasn't that they didn't believe me, it's that they clearly hadn't carefully read the description.  "Hey, the house is on fire!"  No, dear, you may not set the house on fire.  "But I smell smoke!"  Honey, if the house were on fire you would smell smoke.  They didn't ignore me, they just didn't seem to be able to read.

Sorry, I digress.

On Mon Jan 22, akatow wrote
---------------------------
A feeling every parent knows....

>On Sat Jan 20, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>Cassandra, isn't she the one who was cursed with being able to accurately foresee impending disaster but no one would believe her warnings?

>>On Sat Jan 20, Chrístõ wrote
>>----------------------------
>>>image host
>>> . . is today's question from Oxford Reference. Visit www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780195156690%2E013%2E0289 to find the answer.


Message aece048200A-10249-1000-07.htm, number 128356, was posted on Mon Jan 22 at 16:40:05
Grounding on their own beef bones. Icebound since Christmas Eve.

Hoyden


www.washingtonpost.com/ne

Message 5e86cc0fsVT-10250-642+1c.htm, number 128357, was posted on Tue Jan 23 at 10:42:20
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10248-1188-30.htm

Picking up the thread from below

Otto
dweller@meinberlikomm.de


Yes, so bland that I only lurk and check in maybe once a week or more, which is why I was late noticing Max's welcome thread.

Political discussions on a forum like this can be rewarding because although we may disagree on politics we do share an interest in something else. This forum attracts some articulate, well-read, intelligent people from both ends of political spectrum. That disposes me, for one, to listen to contrary views and try to explain my own. We ought to be able to have a lively political discussion here once in a while without completely forgetting our manners or abandoning Patrick O'Brian related discussions. I regret that the Aubrey-Maturin group on facebook makes politics so unwelcome.

As for forced voting - that's not going to fix America's democracy.

A run-off election system might help. (That's where you have no primaries but a big free-for-all first election with as many candidates as fit on the ballot, Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Communists, Nazis and then a second round between the two top vote getters.

Getting the money out of politics would help too.


Message 5e86cc0fsVT-10250-647+1c.htm, number 128357, was edited on Tue Jan 23 at 10:47:20
and replaces message 5e86cc0fsVT-10250-642+1c.htm

Picking up the thread from below

Otto
dweller@meinberlikomm.de


Yes, so bland that I only lurk and check in maybe once a week or more, which is why I was late noticing Max's welcome thread.

Political discussions on a forum like this can be rewarding because although we may disagree on politics we do share an interest in something else. This forum attracts some articulate, well-read, intelligent people from both ends of political spectrum. That disposes me, for one, to listen to contrary views and try to explain my own. We ought to be able to have a lively political discussion here once in a while without completely forgetting our manners or abandoning Patrick O'Brian-related discussions. I regret that the Aubrey-Maturin group on facebook makes politics so unwelcome.

As for forced voting - that's not going to fix America's democracy.

A run-off election system might help. That's where you have no primaries, just a big free-for-all first election with as many candidates as fit on the ballot - Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Communists, Nazis, and every wacko who can collect some minimum of signatures - and then a second round between the two top vote getters. It would be instructive for the country to see how many people actually vote for nazis (not very many) and commies (even fewer).

Getting the money out of politics would help too.

[ This message was edited on Tue Jan 23 by the author ]


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10251-992+1b.htm, number 128358, was posted on Wed Jan 24 at 16:32:28
in reply to 5e86cc0fsVT-10250-647+1c.htm

(YAWN) A very boring, one-dimensional, echo chamber

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


Boring. Boring. Boring.

Wake me up when, if ever, Max can grasp the opposition's position that the last eight years have focused on the destruction of the US economy, US national security, and all American institutions, and not tag the opposition's assessment as "just weird."

Wake me up when vile and continuing ad hominem attacks on our non-politician President cease, and the threats that go with open-door immigration and the wholesale undermining of our economy are addressed here on an adult level. I saw a reason poster on the internet the other day, "we couldn't get the voters to vote the way we wanted them to, so we decided to bring in our own."

"He's unfit/racist/in collusion" and "that party's positions are 'just weird'" are on the echo chamber level of middle school girls' lunch table argument.

These days we're going toe-to-toe with North Korea rather than about letting pathetic men who'd sell their country's security secrets use girls' restroom facilities.

Wake me up when someone acknowledges California is on the verge of economic collapse. Graphed its demographics look like the top edge of a dumbbell. Its middle-class is disappearing and Silicon valley is going to find it can't pay for all the un-employed people it is bringing in and giving voting rights.

Wake me up when you admit your world is slipping through your fingers, and the world you created adoringly over the last eight years was sucking the country down the drain.  

And DO wake me up when "resistance" has brought the country to civil war.

Who do you think will win?  The one's wearing the pink knit hats?

r,

Caltrop


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10251-1160+1b.htm, number 128358, was edited on Wed Jan 24 at 19:20:32
and replaces message 1892b8f40Nn-10251-992+1b.htm

(YAWN) A very boring, one-dimensional, echo chamber

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


Boring. Boring. Boring.

Wake me up when, if ever, Max can grasp the opposition's position that the last eight years have focused on the destruction of the US economy, US national security, and all American institutions, and not tag the opposition's assessment as "just weird."

Wake me up when vile and continuing ad hominem attacks on our non-politician President cease, and the threats that go with open-door immigration and the wholesale undermining of our economy are addressed here on an adult level. I saw a reason poster on the internet the other day, "we couldn't get the voters to vote the way we wanted them to, so we decided to bring in our own."

"He's unfit/racist/in collusion" and "that party's positions are 'just weird'" are on the echo chamber level of middle school girls' lunch table argument.

These days we're going toe-to-toe with North Korea rather than about letting pathetic men who'd sell their country's security secrets use girls' restroom facilities.

Wake me up when someone acknowledges California is on the verge of economic collapse. Graphed its demographics look like the top edge of a dumbbell. Its middle-class is disappearing and Silicon valley is going to find it can't pay for all the un-employed people it is bringing in and giving voting rights.

Wake me up when you admit your world is slipping through your fingers, and the world you created adoringly over the last eight years was sucking the country down the drain.  

And DO wake me up when "resistance" has brought the country to civil war.

Who do you think will win?  The ones wearing the pink knit hats?

Resistance sounds so chic.

r,

Caltrop

[ This message was edited on Wed Jan 24 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10251-1202+1b.htm, number 128359, was posted on Wed Jan 24 at 20:01:31
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10251-1160+1b.htm

"Thank Heaven For Little Girls"

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


qqqq

Message 1892b8f40Nn-10252-577+1a.htm, number 128358, was edited on Thu Jan 25 at 09:37:18
and replaces message 1892b8f40Nn-10251-1160+1b.htm

(YAWN) A very boring, one-dimensional, echo chamber

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


Boring. Boring. Boring.

Wake me up when, if ever, Max can grasp the opposition's position that the last eight years have focused on the destruction of the US economy, US national security, and all American institutions, and not tag the opposition's assessment as "just weird."

Wake me up when vile and continuing ad hominem attacks on our non-politician President cease, and the threats that go with open-door immigration and the wholesale undermining of our economy are addressed here on an adult level. I saw a recent poster on the internet the other day, "we couldn't get the voters to vote the way we wanted them to, so we decided to bring in our own."

"He's unfit/racist/in collusion" and "that party's positions are 'just weird'" are on the echo chamber level of middle school girls' lunch table argument.

These days we're going toe-to-toe with North Korea rather than about letting pathetic men who'd sell their country's security secrets use girls' restroom facilities.

Wake me up when someone acknowledges California is on the verge of economic collapse. Graphed its demographics look like the top edge of a dumbbell. Its middle-class is disappearing and Silicon valley is going to find it can't pay for all the un-employed people it is bringing in and giving voting rights.

Wake me up when you admit your world is slipping through your fingers, and the world you created adoringly over the last eight years was sucking the country down the drain.  

And DO wake me up when "resistance" has brought the country to civil war.

Who do you think will win?  The ones wearing the pink knit hats?

Resistance sounds so chic.

r,

Caltrop

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 25 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10252-697-90.htm, number 128360, was posted on Thu Jan 25 at 11:37:27
Ursula K Le Guin RIP

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
Obituary: The writer Ursula K Le Guin, who has died aged 88, presided over American science fiction for nearly half a century. Her reputation as an author of the first rank, and her role as ambassador for the genres of the fantastic, began in 1968 with her fourth novel, A Wizard of Earthsea. It has not been out of print since . .
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/obituary-ursula-k-le-guin

…………….
image host

Ursula K Le Guin, by Margaret Atwood: ‘One of the literary greats of the 20th century’ - The author of The Handmaid’s Tale bids hail, farewell and thank you to the revered sci-fi and fantasy author, who has died aged 88
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/ursula-k-le-guin-margaret-atwood-tribute
…………….
worldsofukl.com/


Message 50e5a913p13-10252-697+5a.htm, number 128360, was edited on Thu Jan 25 at 11:47:36
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10252-697-90.htm

Ursula K Le Guin RIP

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
Obituary: The writer Ursula K Le Guin, who has died aged 88, presided over American science fiction for nearly half a century. Her reputation as an author of the first rank, and her role as ambassador for the genres of the fantastic, began in 1968 with her fourth novel, A Wizard of Earthsea. It has not been out of print since . .
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/obituary-ursula-k-le-guin

…………….

Ursula K Le Guin, by Margaret Atwood: ‘One of the literary greats of the 20th century’ - The author of The Handmaid’s Tale bids hail, farewell and thank you to the revered sci-fi and fantasy author, who has died aged 88
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/ursula-k-le-guin-margaret-atwood-tribute
…………….
worldsofukl.com/

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 25 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10252-735-07.htm, number 128361, was posted on Thu Jan 25 at 12:15:13
"Thank Heaven For Little Girls"

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


What does the Capt’n have against little girls?

Me, I’m all for ‘em, like Maurice Chevalier:


Message 50e5a913p13-10252-735+07.htm, number 128361, was edited on Thu Jan 25 at 12:31:17
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10252-735-07.htm

"Thank Heaven For Little Girls"

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


What does the Capt’n have against little girls?

Me, I’m all for ‘em, like Maurice Chevalier:

…………

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 25 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10252-735+07.htm, number 128361, was edited on Thu Jan 25 at 12:32:27
"Thank Heaven For Little Girls"

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


What does the Capt’n have against little girls?

Me, I’m all for ‘em, like Maurice Chevalier:

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 25 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10252-697+07.htm, number 128360, was edited on Thu Jan 25 at 12:49:17
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10252-697+5a.htm

Ursula K Le Guin RIP

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
Obituary: The writer Ursula K Le Guin, who has died aged 88, presided over American science fiction for nearly half a century. Her reputation as an author of the first rank, and her role as ambassador for the genres of the fantastic, began in 1968 with her fourth novel, A Wizard of Earthsea. It has not been out of print since . .
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/obituary-ursula-k-le-guin

…………….

Ursula K Le Guin, by Margaret Atwood: ‘One of the literary greats of the 20th century’ - The author of The Handmaid’s Tale bids hail, farewell and thank you to the revered sci-fi and fantasy author, who has died aged 88
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/ursula-k-le-guin-margaret-atwood-tribute
…………….
worldsofukl.com/

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 25 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10252-697+07.htm, number 128361, was edited on Thu Jan 25 at 12:58:39
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10252-697+5a.htm

Ursula K Le Guin RIP

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
Obituary: The writer Ursula K Le Guin, who has died aged 88, presided over American science fiction for nearly half a century. Her reputation as an author of the first rank, and her role as ambassador for the genres of the fantastic, began in 1968 with her fourth novel, A Wizard of Earthsea. It has not been out of print since . .
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/obituary-ursula-k-le-guin

…………….

Ursula K Le Guin, by Margaret Atwood: ‘One of the literary greats of the 20th century’ - The author of The Handmaid’s Tale bids hail, farewell and thank you to the revered sci-fi and fantasy author, who has died aged 88
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/ursula-k-le-guin-margaret-atwood-tribute
…………….
worldsofukl.com/

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 25 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10252-697+07.htm, number 128360, was edited on Thu Jan 25 at 13:02:11
Ursula K Le Guin RIP

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
Obituary: The writer Ursula K Le Guin, who has died aged 88, presided over American science fiction for nearly half a century. Her reputation as an author of the first rank, and her role as ambassador for the genres of the fantastic, began in 1968 with her fourth novel, A Wizard of Earthsea. It has not been out of print since . .
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/obituary-ursula-k-le-guin

…………….
Ursula K Le Guin, by Margaret Atwood: ‘One of the literary greats of the 20th century’ - The author of The Handmaid’s Tale bids hail, farewell and thank you to the revered sci-fi and fantasy author, who has died aged 88
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/ursula-k-le-guin-margaret-atwood-tribute
…………….
worldsofukl.com/

[ This message was edited on Thu Jan 25 by the author ]


Message 6242b02f00A-10252-1310+07.htm, number 128362, was posted on Thu Jan 25 at 21:51:13
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10252-735+07.htm

Re: "Thank Heaven For Little Girls"

YA


Republicans are all for 'em, too; but like Roy Moore.

In case this particular case of barrel bottom scraping didn't make it across the Atlantic:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore_sexual_misconduct_allegations

On Thu Jan 25, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>What does the Capt’n have against little girls?

>Me, I’m all for ‘em, like Maurice Chevalier:

>


Message 61518b1d8HW-10252-1348-30.htm, number 128363, was posted on Thu Jan 25 at 22:29:39
Max, what can you tell about the movie _Hook_?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm describing Walt Disney for a benighted foreigner (Nigerian, actually) and got to looking things up.  I happened to notice on IMDb that the movie Hook (not Disney, but one thing leads to another) had an estimated budget of $70M and grossed $113M in the US.  That doesn't sound like a lot of profit; did Hook actually lose money before it was released worldwide?

Message 4cdac2ec00A-10253-14+1d.htm, number 128364, was posted on Fri Jan 26 at 00:13:58
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10252-1348-30.htm

Re: Max, what can you tell about the movie _Hook_?

Max



Bob, it was released in December which is a great time for films. It ranked #1 in box office on it's release. It grossed $300m world wide. Therefore, it didn't lose money on it's $70m budget.
3 years later, Pirates of the Caribean, a film we can all agree was a huge success was released in december. It grossed $400m and some change.
So, Hook didn't lose, but it wasn't the sequel spewing winner it might have been.



Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic:      $119,654,823        39.8%
+ Foreign:      $181,200,000        60.2%
= Worldwide:      $300,854,823     
Domestic Summary
Opening Weekend:      $13,522,535
(#1 rank, 2,197 theaters, $6,155 average)
% of Total Gross:      11.3%

Widest Release:      2,254 theaters





n Thu Jan 25, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>I'm describing Walt Disney for a benighted foreigner (Nigerian, actually) and got to looking things up.  I happened to notice on IMDb that the movie Hook (not Disney, but one thing leads to another) had an estimated budget of $70M and grossed $113M in the US.  That doesn't sound like a lot of profit; did Hook actually lose money before it was released worldwide?


Message 61518b1d8HW-10253-1028+1d.htm, number 128365, was posted on Fri Jan 26 at 17:09:29
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10253-14+1d.htm

Re^2: Max, what can you tell about the movie _Hook_?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Follow-up question, brought on by contemplating "worldwide":  There are plenty of Anglophones worldwide, of course, but I imagine at least some of that revenue came from others.  How is that handled?  Do they use subtitles, dubbing, what?  I'm used to the idea of dubbing for TV sitcoms, so even though it sounds just wrong to hear Joey Tribbiani speaking French I can at least not turn away in horror; but somehow for newly released films it seems less likely.

On Fri Jan 26, Max wrote
------------------------
>Bob, it was released in December which is a great time for films. It ranked #1 in box office on it's release. It grossed $300m world wide. Therefore, it didn't lose money on it's $70m budget.

>3 years later, Pirates of the Caribean, a film we can all agree was a huge success was released in december. It grossed $400m and some change.

>So, Hook didn't lose, but it wasn't the sequel spewing winner it might have been.

>Total Lifetime Grosses
>Domestic:      $119,654,823        39.8%
>+ Foreign:      $181,200,000        60.2%
>= Worldwide:      $300,854,823     
>Domestic Summary
>Opening Weekend:      $13,522,535
>(#1 rank, 2,197 theaters, $6,155 average)
>% of Total Gross:      11.3%

>Widest Release:      2,254 theaters

>On Thu Jan 25, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>I'm describing Walt Disney for a benighted foreigner (Nigerian, actually) and got to looking things up.  I happened to notice on IMDb that the movie Hook (not Disney, but one thing leads to another) had an estimated budget of $70M and grossed $113M in the US.  That doesn't sound like a lot of profit; did Hook actually lose money before it was released worldwide?


Message 4cdac2ec00A-10253-1258+1d.htm, number 128366, was posted on Fri Jan 26 at 20:58:22
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10253-1028+1d.htm

Re^3: Max, what can you tell about the movie _Hook_?

Max



Roughly 1/3rd of the world wide market is North America. The rest is overseas. The biggest buyers are France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the UK. Most of that is non-English speaking.

When we film we use multiple sound tracks. The master has everything except the lead actors. Then the actors voices are dubbed in. When possible, we use actors that sound like the originals. Sometimes the original language is kept in but there is a written transcript running at the bottom of the screen.

Re the dubs: it’s only weird if you know what Joey sounds like: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDe-AqixjW4





On Fri Jan 26, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Follow-up question, brought on by contemplating "worldwide":  There are plenty of Anglophones worldwide, of course, but I imagine at least some of that revenue came from others.  How is that handled?  Do they use subtitles, dubbing, what?  I'm used to the idea of dubbing for TV sitcoms, so even though it sounds just wrong to hear Joey Tribbiani speaking French I can at least not turn away in horror; but somehow for newly released films it seems less likely.

>On Fri Jan 26, Max wrote
>------------------------
>>Bob, it was released in December which is a great time for films. It ranked #1 in box office on it's release. It grossed $300m world wide. Therefore, it didn't lose money on it's $70m budget.

>>3 years later, Pirates of the Caribean, a film we can all agree was a huge success was released in december. It grossed $400m and some change.

>>So, Hook didn't lose, but it wasn't the sequel spewing winner it might have been.

>>Total Lifetime Grosses
>>Domestic:      $119,654,823        39.8%
>>+ Foreign:      $181,200,000        60.2%
>>= Worldwide:      $300,854,823     
>>Domestic Summary
>>Opening Weekend:      $13,522,535
>>(#1 rank, 2,197 theaters, $6,155 average)
>>% of Total Gross:      11.3%

>>Widest Release:      2,254 theaters

>>On Thu Jan 25, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>I'm describing Walt Disney for a benighted foreigner (Nigerian, actually) and got to looking things up.  I happened to notice on IMDb that the movie Hook (not Disney, but one thing leads to another) had an estimated budget of $70M and grossed $113M in the US.  That doesn't sound like a lot of profit; did Hook actually lose money before it was released worldwide?


Message 61518b1d8HW-10253-1422-30.htm, number 128367, was posted on Fri Jan 26 at 23:43:51
More on Trump's buffoonery

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


What, did you let this thread default to just a week, Max?  I just barely in time captured the below; when I went back to get the date, the thread was gone.

Well, my heart wasn't really in the "unfit for office" part anyway; I couldn't bring myself to vote for him or Hillary.  And you can call him a moron if you like, but as I said, you may as well call him a bastard or a jerk or a buffoon, similarly meaningless words ("meaningless" except to convey "I don't like him").

But my question about corruption was genuine, and you treated it as such.  I went to your link, but I didn't see anything about corruption there.  I didn't look at each of the hundreds of entries, but the first few and the last few had nothing to do with corruption, they were merely "conflicts of interest", most apparently listed by the Office of Government Ethics.  You know the difference between the two; have you fallen into the error of some other now-missing posters and just started to assume what you want to believe?  Or (more likely) have you real reasons for calling him corrupt, and listed this link by mistake?

>About a week ago, Max wrote:
>--------------------------------
>Bob, if you want to present a defense of Trump you have to present a defense of Trump. Not Truman or Nixon. So, no I decline your invitation to make things so relativistic that they have no meaning. “Guilty you say – aren’t we all guilty of something”.  Nor will I expand the discussion beyond the hope of clarity “isn’t everybody accused of something sometime”

>Since you ask, I have cited a few easily understood summaries explaining my use of certain phrases. I would have called him a vagina but that would have been inaccurate as he lacks the warmth and depth.

>Corrupt – docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-_vJDLlCtd94zaieFeB2qdLB9WUdNPIryWBFNuXAAZ8/edit#gid=397855752

>Unfit for office - http://cohen.house.gov/sites/cohen.house.gov/files/documents/Resolution%20of%20No%20Confidence%20in%20Donald%20J.%20Trump.pdf

>Moron

>Moron - nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/fine-trump-doesnt-have-dementia-hes-just-a-moron.html

>www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-wanted-dramatic-increase-nuclear-arsenal-meeting-military-leaders-n809701

>On Sat Jan 20, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>Disclaimer:  I didn't vote for him, and I despise how he talks about women and Mexicans.  Probably others, too, if I'd been listening.  But this was my idea, so I should help it along a little:

  • "Moron"?  Obviously untrue.  You mean the word as you would mean scores of words like it that are used not in their literal senses but only to mean "I don't like him and I want him to feel bad about himself", such as jerk, bastard, stupid, poo-poo head and the like.

  • "Corrupt"?  I don't disbelieve you but I'm interested in the particulars.  I've heard lots of charges of corruption against other politicians, mostly of the other party (which may indicate only who's been talking to me), but I don't recall charges of overt corruption against Trump.  What have you in mind?

  • "Unfit for office": I don't see how I'm qualified to opine on any definition of fitness except my own—and since he got elected President, apparently my definitions isn't relevant.

    Let's try this: Is there any recent President—since Eisenhower, say—about whom a significant portion of the voting public didn't say "unfit for office"?

>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>------------------------
>>>>Okay then.
>>>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>>>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.

>>>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>--------------------------------
>>>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>>------------------------
>>>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 4cdac2ec00A-10254-37+1d.htm, number 128368, was posted on Sat Jan 27 at 00:37:44
in reply to 61518b1d8HW-10253-1422-30.htm

Re: Corruption

Max


https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january-february-march-2018/a-year-in-trump-corruption/

https://www.vox.com/2017/11/16/16643614/trump-administration-corruption-russia-investigation

www.newsweek.com/2017/11/10/trump-administration-most-corrupt-history-698935.html

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/21/trumps-business-of-corruption

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/12/15/cyprus-center-circle-corruption-surrounding-trump



On Fri Jan 26, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>What, did you let this thread default to just a week, Max?  I just barely in time captured the below; when I went back to get the date, the thread was gone.

>Well, my heart wasn't really in the "unfit for office" part anyway; I couldn't bring myself to vote for him or Hillary.  And you can call him a moron if you like, but as I said, you may as well call him a bastard or a jerk or a buffoon, similarly meaningless words ("meaningless" except to convey "I don't like him").

>But my question about corruption was genuine, and you treated it as such.  I went to your link, but I didn't see anything about corruption there.  I didn't look at each of the hundreds of entries, but the first few and the last few had nothing to do with corruption, they were merely "conflicts of interest", most apparently listed by the Office of Government Ethics.  You know the difference between the two; have you fallen into the error of some other now-missing posters and just started to assume what you want to believe?  Or (more likely) have you real reasons for calling him corrupt, and listed this link by mistake?

>>About a week ago, Max wrote:
>>--------------------------------
>>Bob, if you want to present a defense of Trump you have to present a defense of Trump. Not Truman or Nixon. So, no I decline your invitation to make things so relativistic that they have no meaning. “Guilty you say – aren’t we all guilty of something”.  Nor will I expand the discussion beyond the hope of clarity “isn’t everybody accused of something sometime”

>>Since you ask, I have cited a few easily understood summaries explaining my use of certain phrases. I would have called him a vagina but that would have been inaccurate as he lacks the warmth and depth.

>>Corrupt – docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-_vJDLlCtd94zaieFeB2qdLB9WUdNPIryWBFNuXAAZ8/edit#gid=397855752

>>Unfit for office - http://cohen.house.gov/sites/cohen.house.gov/files/documents/Resolution%20of%20No%20Confidence%20in%20Donald%20J.%20Trump.pdf

>>Moron

>>Moron

>>Moron

>>Moron - nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/fine-trump-doesnt-have-dementia-hes-just-a-moron.html

>>www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-wanted-dramatic-increase-nuclear-arsenal-meeting-military-leaders-n809701

>>On Sat Jan 20, Bob Bridges wrote
>>--------------------------------
>>>Disclaimer:  I didn't vote for him, and I despise how he talks about women and Mexicans.  Probably others, too, if I'd been listening.  But this was my idea, so I should help it along a little:

>

  • "Moron"?  Obviously untrue.  You mean the word as you would mean scores of words like it that are used not in their literal senses but only to mean "I don't like him and I want him to feel bad about himself", such as jerk, bastard, stupid, poo-poo head and the like.

    >

  • "Corrupt"?  I don't disbelieve you but I'm interested in the particulars.  I've heard lots of charges of corruption against other politicians, mostly of the other party (which may indicate only who's been talking to me), but I don't recall charges of overt corruption against Trump.  What have you in mind?

    >

  • "Unfit for office": I don't see how I'm qualified to opine on any definition of fitness except my own—and since he got elected President, apparently my definitions isn't relevant.

    >Let's try this: Is there any recent President—since Eisenhower, say—about whom a significant portion of the voting public didn't say "unfit for office"?

>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>------------------------
>>>>>Okay then.
>>>>I'll repeat what I said here prior to the election.
>>>>Trump is a corrupt moron and utterly unfit for office.

>>>>On Fri Jan 19, Bob Bridges wrote
>>>>--------------------------------
>>>>>I mentioned this a year or so ago:  By making unwelcome contributors like Karl and He Who Must Not Be Named, and forbidding politics and religion from dinner discussion, I suspect we sanitized our environment to the point where it's a little too bland.  Maybe a lot too bland.

>>>>>When I was a boy I became aware of the dangers of uncontroled anger, but responded the wrong way:  I tried to eliminate all "negative emotions" from my personality.  It was at least a decade before I saw that I'd been mistaken, and two decades more before (IMO) the harm I'd done myself was mostly undone.  I'd seen the dangers of anger, but not the benefits, and threw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the same thing may be going on here:  Yes, we get annoyed in the face of foolish opinions (by which of course I mean opinions that I don't share), and we grow heated, and offensive, and maybe start throwing things.  But never to expose ourselves to disagreement—to try to eliminate those disagreements from our discourse—is also destructive.

>>>>>I repeat my motion that we inject a few deliberately controversial opinions into the forum, and ... well, controverse about them.

>>>>>On Fri Jan 19, Max wrote
>>>>>------------------------
>>>>>>Trump is President. Navy is charging those destroyer officers with homicide. We ignore it all.

>>>>>>Did we grow up or just get old?


Message 4cdac2ec00A-10254-595-30.htm, number 128369, was posted on Sat Jan 27 at 09:55:18
Corruption reply

Max


Bob, the corruption case against Trump is so well documented that there really isn’t any point in mass citing a year’s worth of news reference and analysis.

Simply put, Trump accepted hundreds of millions of dollars in investments from Putin connected criminal oligarchs. The money laundering has been well documented. In particular, you have the London private banking division of Deutsche Bank. What many Americans don’t understand is that private bankers in Europe are more like stockbrokers in the United States than the federally regulated banking structure. Deutsche Bank was exposed as a money launderer in Europe. Deutsche paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines. The head of the London branch is on the run in a variety of extradition proof countries. A similar investigation in New York was put on hold. The purpose was to not run afoul of the US federal investigation.

That New York State investigation is the hammer that is going to come down hard on the Trump family. You see, no matter how many federal investigators you fire or violators of federal statutes you pardon, the president has no power over state prosecution. New York State routinely goes after big money violators. New York State is firmly Democrat. New York State is waiting for the federal investigation to play out, or, be successfully obstructed.

As matters stand the Trump corruption case is straightforward. Trump, his family, and the entirety of his inner a political circle had numerous and undeniable meetings contacts and connections with Russian political agents. Uniformly they have all lied under oath about these contacts. I think the number of Trump family and transition team members that are eventually going to fall under obstruction and perjury charges is 19, so far. Two of these have already pled guilty and are busy assisting the prosecution of the rest. Where Trump gets pulled in is an already well documented series of attempts to influence and hinder the corruption investigation. This includes firing the director of the FBI. This includes lying about why the director of the FBI was fired. Most recently this includes an attempt a month later to fire the special prosecutor. Individually these two actions alone constitute an obstruction case. Taken within the context of the criminal activity that is being investigated and the badly orchestrated attempts by dozens of Trump Associates to cover up these activities, you will have in the coming year a simple and easily understood case of money laundering, tax evasion, and fraud.

Another forum member presented the usual defense. I didn’t bother to reply because I don’t see that it would convince anybody. If any other forum member cares, the defense is always one of two things: either “straw man” or “squirrel”. In strawman the defender site something the accuser never said and presents a defense of that. In squirrel, it’s simple misdirection. For example, in response to “Trump is attempting to obstruct a criminal investigation” will receive some accusation about Bill or Hillary Clinton. In response to “the president is lying almost daily about things provably not true (the size of his inaugural crowd)”, you will get back something about the California economy or blather about the hordes of rapist immigrants threatening the existence of the Republic.


Message 50e5a913p13-10254-705-90.htm, number 128370, was posted on Sat Jan 27 at 11:44:59
Frankenstein at 200 . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
. . and why Mary Shelley was far more than the sum of her monster’s parts.

Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley’s Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus was published anonymously 200 years ago in January, 1818. It has since become the most analysed and contested novel of all time . . first in a line of seven novels that she published across three decades.

It may be the one for which we now celebrate Shelley, but all of her works reveal an assertion of women’s rights to create as authors and artists, associating these rights with a calm pursuit of knowledge. Shelley, author of Frankenstein, cautious supporter of scientific advancement, was much, much more than the sum of the parts of her first monster.

[theconversation.com/frankenstein-at-200-and-why-mary-shelley-was-far-more-than-the-sum-of-her-monsters-parts-90206]

Frankenstein, or the beauty and terror of science
Henk van den Belt
[jgeekstudies.org/2017/01/09/frankenstein-or-the-beauty-and-terror-of-science/]


Message 50e5a913p13-10254-769+1e.htm, number 128371, was posted on Sat Jan 27 at 12:48:52
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10254-595-30.htm

Media Madness: . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This is more interesting than corruption:

‘ . .  book shows Trump's West Wing is obsessed with press - Fox News’ Howard Kurtz portrays a president who values loyalty above all except the attention of leading papers and networks

[www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/27/media-madness-book-howard-kurtz-donald-trump]


Message 50e5a913p13-10256-791-07.htm, number 128372, was posted on Mon Jan 29 at 13:11:15
‘Which work of Arabic literature features Barmecide's Feast?’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199567454%2E013%2E0182 to find the answer to today's question!
…………..
Jack knew about Barmecide feasts, I recall - the only literary reference I have encountered.

Message 50e5a913p13-10257-627-07.htm, number 128373, was posted on Tue Jan 30 at 10:27:02
‘In meteorology what is diamond dust and how is it formed?’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199541447%2E013%2E2338 to find the answer to today's question!

Message 4747f4808HW-10259-993+19.htm, number 128374, was posted on Thu Feb 1 at 16:32:52
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10254-595-30.htm

Re: Corruption reply

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I haven't yet read Christo's reply to this; I expect it'll be germane.  But I keep getting busy during the day and not catching up to this discussion, and I decided I'm just going to have to take the time to reply even if it's not as well thought out as I'd like it to be.

Here's my problem:  I have lived (as have you) through a few decades now of wild name-calling on both sides.  Before the US invasion of Iraq we learned that GW / Rumsfeld / et al were Hitler.  Before that I was earnestly told that the Clintons are responsible for the murders of their political opponents.  Obama wanted (and presumably still wants) to make this a Muslim country and put us all under Sharia.  And so on.

For years now, political opponents have said pretty much anything about their opponents that they could think of.  The boy has cried "wolf" too many times; I now disbelieve pretty much everything.

Is the wolf really among the sheep this time?  Is Trump guilty of corruption?  Sure, maybe.  But I can think of no evidence you can point to I'll believe.

I realize that I asked you, and you replied.  I didn't set out to hit you with a bait-and-switch; it isn't until now that I've discovered how disconnected I've become.  And I see that this looks like I've given up prematurely; and maybe I have.  Still, there it is:  What can I believe?  I can still contest accusations that seem to be based on nothing, or that simply aren't credible.  But just now that seems to me like an empty exercise; I can disbelieve, but I have no serious belief to offer in its place—belief about politicians, I mean.

On Sat Jan 27, Max wrote
------------------------
>Bob, the corruption case against Trump is so well documented that there really isn’t any point in mass citing a year’s worth of news reference and analysis.

>Simply put, Trump accepted hundreds of millions of dollars in investments from Putin connected criminal oligarchs. The money laundering has been well documented. In particular, you have the London private banking division of Deutsche Bank. What many Americans don’t understand is that private bankers in Europe are more like stockbrokers in the United States than the federally regulated banking structure. Deutsche Bank was exposed as a money launderer in Europe. Deutsche paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines. The head of the London branch is on the run in a variety of extradition proof countries. A similar investigation in New York was put on hold. The purpose was to not run afoul of the US federal investigation.

>That New York State investigation is the hammer that is going to come down hard on the Trump family. You see, no matter how many federal investigators you fire or violators of federal statutes you pardon, the president has no power over state prosecution. New York State routinely goes after big money violators. New York State is firmly Democrat. New York State is waiting for the federal investigation to play out, or, be successfully obstructed.

>As matters stand the Trump corruption case is straightforward. Trump, his family, and the entirety of his inner a political circle had numerous and undeniable meetings contacts and connections with Russian political agents. Uniformly they have all lied under oath about these contacts. I think the number of Trump family and transition team members that are eventually going to fall under obstruction and perjury charges is 19, so far. Two of these have already pled guilty and are busy assisting the prosecution of the rest. Where Trump gets pulled in is an already well documented series of attempts to influence and hinder the corruption investigation. This includes firing the director of the FBI. This includes lying about why the director of the FBI was fired. Most recently this includes an attempt a month later to fire the special prosecutor. Individually these two actions alone constitute an obstruction case. Taken within the context of the criminal activity that is being investigated and the badly orchestrated attempts by dozens of Trump Associates to cover up these activities, you will have in the coming year a simple and easily understood case of money laundering, tax evasion, and fraud.

>Another forum member presented the usual defense. I didn’t bother to reply because I don’t see that it would convince anybody. If any other forum member cares, the defense is always one of two things: either “straw man” or “squirrel”. In strawman the defender site something the accuser never said and presents a defense of that. In squirrel, it’s simple misdirection. For example, in response to “Trump is attempting to obstruct a criminal investigation” will receive some accusation about Bill or Hillary Clinton. In response to “the president is lying almost daily about things provably not true (the size of his inaugural crowd)”, you will get back something about the California economy or blather about the hordes of rapist immigrants threatening the existence of the Republic.


Message 4747f4808HW-10259-994+19.htm, number 128375, was posted on Thu Feb 1 at 16:34:48
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10254-595-30.htm

Re: Corruption reply

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I haven't yet read Christo's reply to this; I expect it'll be germane.  But I keep getting busy during the day and not catching up to this discussion, and I decided I'm just going to have to take the time to reply even if it's not as well thought out as I'd like it to be.

Here's my problem:  I have lived (as have you) through a few decades now of wild name-calling on both sides.  Before the US invasion of Iraq we learned that GW / Rumsfeld / et al were Hitler.  Before that I was earnestly told that the Clintons are responsible for the murders of their political opponents.  Obama wanted (and presumably still wants) to make this a Muslim country and put us all under Sharia.  And so on.

For years now, political opponents have said pretty much anything about their opponents that they could think of.  The boy has cried "wolf" too many times; I now disbelieve pretty much everything.

Is the wolf really among the sheep this time?  Is Trump guilty of corruption?  Sure, maybe.  But I can think of no evidence you can point to that I'll believe.  Something written in the LAT or NYT?  Let's not be silly.

I realize that I asked you, and you replied.  I didn't set out to hit you with a bait-and-switch; it isn't until now that I've discovered how disconnected I've become.  And I see that this looks like I've given up prematurely; and maybe I have.  Still, there it is:  What can I believe?  I can still contest accusations that seem to be based on nothing, or that simply aren't credible.  But just now that seems to me like an empty exercise; I can disbelieve, but I have no serious belief (about politicians, I mean) to offer in its place.

On Sat Jan 27, Max wrote
------------------------
>Bob, the corruption case against Trump is so well documented that there really isn’t any point in mass citing a year’s worth of news reference and analysis.

>Simply put, Trump accepted hundreds of millions of dollars in investments from Putin connected criminal oligarchs. The money laundering has been well documented. In particular, you have the London private banking division of Deutsche Bank. What many Americans don’t understand is that private bankers in Europe are more like stockbrokers in the United States than the federally regulated banking structure. Deutsche Bank was exposed as a money launderer in Europe. Deutsche paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines. The head of the London branch is on the run in a variety of extradition proof countries. A similar investigation in New York was put on hold. The purpose was to not run afoul of the US federal investigation.

>That New York State investigation is the hammer that is going to come down hard on the Trump family. You see, no matter how many federal investigators you fire or violators of federal statutes you pardon, the president has no power over state prosecution. New York State routinely goes after big money violators. New York State is firmly Democrat. New York State is waiting for the federal investigation to play out, or, be successfully obstructed.

>As matters stand the Trump corruption case is straightforward. Trump, his family, and the entirety of his inner a political circle had numerous and undeniable meetings contacts and connections with Russian political agents. Uniformly they have all lied under oath about these contacts. I think the number of Trump family and transition team members that are eventually going to fall under obstruction and perjury charges is 19, so far. Two of these have already pled guilty and are busy assisting the prosecution of the rest. Where Trump gets pulled in is an already well documented series of attempts to influence and hinder the corruption investigation. This includes firing the director of the FBI. This includes lying about why the director of the FBI was fired. Most recently this includes an attempt a month later to fire the special prosecutor. Individually these two actions alone constitute an obstruction case. Taken within the context of the criminal activity that is being investigated and the badly orchestrated attempts by dozens of Trump Associates to cover up these activities, you will have in the coming year a simple and easily understood case of money laundering, tax evasion, and fraud.

>Another forum member presented the usual defense. I didn’t bother to reply because I don’t see that it would convince anybody. If any other forum member cares, the defense is always one of two things: either “straw man” or “squirrel”. In strawman the defender site something the accuser never said and presents a defense of that. In squirrel, it’s simple misdirection. For example, in response to “Trump is attempting to obstruct a criminal investigation” will receive some accusation about Bill or Hillary Clinton. In response to “the president is lying almost daily about things provably not true (the size of his inaugural crowd)”, you will get back something about the California economy or blather about the hordes of rapist immigrants threatening the existence of the Republic.


Message 92c72b2f00A-10260-481+03.htm, number 128376, was posted on Fri Feb 2 at 08:01:11
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10256-791-07.htm

Re: ‘Which work of Arabic literature features Barmecide's Feast?’

Guest


Thank'ee, Christõ. I had never bothered to look it up, but had assumed it was something biblical.


On Mon Jan 29, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199567454%2E013%2E0182 to find the answer to today's question!
>…………..
>Jack knew about Barmecide feasts, I recall - the only literary reference I have encountered.
>

Message 50e5a913p13-10260-725-90.htm, number 128377, was posted on Fri Feb 2 at 12:05:05
Ursula Le Guin repost

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
>Obituary: The writer Ursula K Le Guin, who has died aged 88, presided over American science fiction for nearly half a century. Her reputation as an author of the first rank, and her role as ambassador for the genres of the fantastic, began in 1968 with her fourth novel, A Wizard of Earthsea. It has not been out of print since . .
>www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/obituary-ursula-k-le-guin

>…………….
>Ursula K Le Guin, by Margaret Atwood: ‘One of the literary greats of the 20th century’ - The author of The Handmaid’s Tale bids hail, farewell and thank you to the revered sci-fi and fantasy author, who has died aged 88
>www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/ursula-k-le-guin-margaret-atwood-tribute
>…………….
>worldsofukl.com/


Message 50e5a913p13-10260-727+5a.htm, number 128378, was posted on Fri Feb 2 at 12:06:45
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10260-725-90.htm

Video from of Gaiman and Le Guin 2014

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Neil Gaiman presents the National Book Foundation's Medal for Distinguished Contribution to American Letters . . on November 19, 2014 to Ursula K. Le Guin


Message 48c466b500A-10260-754+5a.htm, number 128379, was posted on Fri Feb 2 at 12:33:45
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10260-727+5a.htm

Re: Video from of Gaiman and Le Guin 2014

ollyA-


Enjoyed this a lot — thanks so much, Chrístõ!


On Fri Feb 2, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>Neil Gaiman presents the National Book Foundation's Medal for Distinguished Contribution to American Letters . . on November 19, 2014 to Ursula K. Le Guin

>

>


Message 50e5a913p13-10260-795+18.htm, number 128380, was posted on Fri Feb 2 at 13:14:59
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10259-994+19.htm

Re^2: Corruption reply

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Feb 1, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>I haven't yet read Christo's reply to this; I expect it'll be germane . .

In fact it’s just a link to Kurtz’s book, what evert that was.

I enjoy the day to day theatre of Washington politics as it is reported to me by Channel 4's Kylie Morris www.channel4.com/news/by/kylie-morris but I don't follow it closely enough to have opinions about it. Except:

Mr T's speech and manners remind me and others of Mussolini:

He certainly would not have got far within a parliamentary system, even one as decayed as ours now is:

No demagogue can stand being mocked.


I am looking forward to his State Visit, however: what could possibly go wrong?


Message 50e5a913p13-10260-802+18.htm, number 128380, was edited on Fri Feb 2 at 13:21:47
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10260-795+18.htm

Re^2: Corruption reply

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Feb 1, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>I haven't yet read Christo's reply to this; I expect it'll be germane . .

In fact it’s just a link to Kurtz’s book, what evert that was.

I enjoy the day to day theatre of Washington politics as it is reported to me by Channel 4's Kylie Morris www.channel4.com/news/by/kylie-morris but I don't follow it closely enough to have opinions about it. Except:

Mr T's speech and manners remind me and others of Mussolini:

He certainly would not have got far within a parliamentary system, even one as decayed as ours now is:

No demagogue can stand being mocked.


I am looking forward to his State Visit, however: what could possibly go wrong?

[ This message was edited on Fri Feb 2 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10260-813+18.htm, number 128380, was edited on Fri Feb 2 at 13:33:35
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10260-802+18.htm

Re^2: Corruption reply

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Feb 1, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>I haven't yet read Christo's reply to this; I expect it'll be germane . .

In fact it’s just a link to Kurtz’s book, what ever that was.

I enjoy the day to day theatre of Washington politics as it is reported to me by Channel 4's Kylie Morris www.channel4.com/news/by/kylie-morris but I don't follow it closely enough to have opinions about it. Except:

Mr T's speech and manners remind me and others of Mussolini:

He certainly would not have got far within a parliamentary system, even one as decayed as ours now is:

No demagogue can stand being mocked.


I am looking forward to his State Visit, however: what could possibly go wrong?

[ This message was edited on Fri Feb 2 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10260-818+18.htm, number 128380, was edited on Fri Feb 2 at 13:38:10
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10260-813+18.htm

Re^2: Corruption reply

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Feb 1, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>I haven't yet read Christo's reply to this; I expect it'll be germane . .

In fact it’s just a link to Kurtz’s book, what ever that was.

I enjoy the day to day theatre of Washington politics as it is reported to me by Channel 4's Kylie Morris www.channel4.com/news/by/kylie-morris but I don't follow it closely enough to have opinions about it. Except:

Mr T's speech and manners remind me and others of Mussolini:

He certainly would not have got far within a parliamentary system, even one as decayed as ours now is:




No demagogue can stand being mocked.


I am looking forward to his State Visit, however: what could possibly go wrong?

[ This message was edited on Fri Feb 2 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10260-820+18.htm, number 128380, was edited on Fri Feb 2 at 13:40:24
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10260-818+18.htm

Re^2: Corruption reply

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Feb 1, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>I haven't yet read Christo's reply to this; I expect it'll be germane . .

In fact it’s just a link to Kurtz’s book, what ever that was.

I enjoy the day to day theatre of Washington politics as it is reported to me by Channel 4's Kylie Morris www.channel4.com/news/by/kylie-morris but I don't follow it closely enough to have opinions about it. Except:

Mr T's speech and manners remind me and others of Mussolini:

He certainly would not have got far within a parliamentary system, even one as decayed as ours now is:



No demagogue can stand being mocked.


I am looking forward to his State Visit, however: what could possibly go wrong?

[ This message was edited on Fri Feb 2 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10260-822+18.htm, number 128380, was edited on Fri Feb 2 at 13:41:42
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10260-820+18.htm

Re^2: Corruption reply

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Feb 1, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>I haven't yet read Christo's reply to this; I expect it'll be germane . .

In fact it’s just a link to Kurtz’s book, what ever that was.

I enjoy the day to day theatre of Washington politics as it is reported to me by Channel 4's Kylie Morris www.channel4.com/news/by/kylie-morris but I don't follow it closely enough to have opinions about it. Except:

Mr T's speech and manners remind me and others of Mussolini:

He certainly would not have got far within a parliamentary system, even one as decayed as ours now is:



No demagogue can stand being mocked.


I am looking forward to his State Visit, however: what could possibly go wrong?

[ This message was edited on Fri Feb 2 by the author ]


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10264-408+0e.htm, number 128381, was posted on Tue Feb 6 at 06:48:03
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10252-577+1a.htm

Re: (YAWN)(YAWN) nnt

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


On Thu Jan 25, CAPT Caltrop wrote
---------------------------------
>Boring. Boring. Boring.

>r,

>Caltrop


Message 4747f4808HW-10264-716-30.htm, number 128382, was posted on Tue Feb 6 at 11:56:46
The Thousand and One Nights

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Christo's post about the Barmecide feast is gone now, but it got me thinking.  I was a big fan of the One Thousand and One Nights when I was a teenager; I'd found an old copy of the 1850 translation by Richard Burton ("British explorer, geographer, translator, writer, soldier, orientalist, cartographer, ethnologist, spy, linguist, poet, fencer, and diplomat") and read it more than once.  I now have a link to the same translation by the Gutenberg project, which I started rereading a while ago.

I don't recall a Barmecide, though.  Must be further on.


Message 4747f4808HW-10264-716+1e.htm, number 128382, was edited on Tue Feb 6 at 11:58:55
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10264-716-30.htm

The Thousand and One Nights

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Christo's post about the Barmecide feast is gone now, but it got me thinking.  I was a big fan of the One Thousand and One Nights when I was a teenager; I'd found an old copy of the 1850 translation by Richard Burton ("British explorer, geographer, translator, writer, soldier, orientalist, cartographer, ethnologist, spy, linguist, poet, fencer, and diplomat") and read it more than once.  I now have a link to the same translation by the Gutenberg project, which I started rereading a while ago.

I don't recall a Barmecide, though.  Must be further on.

[ This message was edited on Tue Feb 6 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10265-826-07.htm, number 128383, was posted on Wed Feb 7 at 13:46:09
‘Which famous explorer gave the Pacific Ocean its name?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is today's question.
image host
Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199547920%2E013%2E3618 to find the answer . .

Message 50e5a913p13-10265-831+1d.htm, number 128384, was posted on Wed Feb 7 at 13:50:52
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10264-716+1e.htm

Re: The Thousand and One Nights

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Tue Feb 6, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>Christo's post about the Barmecide feast is gone now, but it got me thinking.  I was a big fan of the One Thousand and One Nights when I was a teenager . . I don't recall a Barmecide, though.  Must be further on.

OED offers:

'Barmecide, n.: the patronymic of a family of princes ruling at Bagdad just before Haroun-al-Raschid, concerning one of whom the story is told in the Arabian Nights, that he put a succession of empty dishes before a beggar, pretending that they contained a sumptuous repast—a fiction which the beggar humorously accepted.

One who offers imaginary food or illusory benefits. Often attrib.
1713   J. Addison in Guardian 16 Sept. 2/1   The Barmecide was sitting at his Table that seemed ready covered for an Entertainment.
1842   Dickens Amer. Notes I. viii. 282   It is a Barmecide Feast; a pleasant field for the imagination to rove in.
1855   Thackeray Newcomes II. x. 103   My dear Barmecide friend.
1863   Reader II. 506   Sharing the boundless hospitality of a Barmecide.'


Message 6cadb064gpf-10265-973+1d.htm, number 128385, was posted on Wed Feb 7 at 16:13:10
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10264-716+1e.htm

Re: The Thousand and One Nights

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


The One Thousand and One Nights also loomed large in my childhood, read to us by our mother. Years later I encountered a compelling and complicated adventurer called Richard Francis Burton in PJ Farmer's 'To Their Scattered Bodies Go.' Wanting to know more, I found Fawn Brodie's excellent 'The Devil Drives'. Burton claimed to have learned as many as 30 languages, failed to find the source of the Nile, posed as an Arab to enter Mecca... what a guy.
I must read more by Ms. Brodie. I have a soft spot for apostate Mormons......


On Tue Feb 6, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>Christo's post about the Barmecide feast is gone now, but it got me thinking.  I was a big fan of the One Thousand and One Nights when I was a teenager; I'd found an old copy of the 1850 translation by Richard Burton ("British explorer, geographer, translator, writer, soldier, orientalist, cartographer, ethnologist, spy, linguist, poet, fencer, and diplomat") and read it more than once.  I now have a link to the same translation by the Gutenberg project, which I started rereading a while ago.

>I don't recall a Barmecide, though.  Must be further on.


Message cedfbdfannW-10265-1125-90.htm, number 128386, was posted on Wed Feb 7 at 18:44:43
The Siege

Tumblehome
benbarnes@sympatico.ca


Anyone else read this Perez-Reverte novel?  A few years ago I read everything I could get my hands on by him (I especially liked the Nautical Chart) and then I more or less forgot about him until last week.  Last week I picked up the Siege (Cadiz, besieged by Napoleon's forces) and while I haven't finished it I am quite enjoying it.  Reasonably good stuff on merchant marine and corsair activities, quite a lot of stuff on ballistics (French howitzers and mortars), what appears to be a serial killer, and lots of Spaniards who - at best - are mistrustful of their English allies.  

Message 4c729d1400A-10265-1185+5a.htm, number 128387, was posted on Wed Feb 7 at 19:45:22
in reply to cedfbdfannW-10265-1125-90.htm

Re: The Siege

Steve Sheridan


I've read it; very entertaining. I like the Alatriste series a lot more, though.

Steve Sheridan


Message 6cadb03bgpf-10266-11+59.htm, number 128388, was posted on Thu Feb 8 at 00:10:41
in reply to cedfbdfannW-10265-1125-90.htm

Re: The Siege

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


I read it not long ago, it being the last non-Alatriste APR novel in English that I hadn't read. Not bad, but nowhere near up to The Nautical Chart and few others. I thought the sea-going parts were a bit weak, and the serial-killer business unconvincing. The author may have been a bit out of his element.


On Wed Feb 7, Tumblehome wrote
------------------------------
>Anyone else read this Perez-Reverte novel?  A few years ago I read everything I could get my hands on by him (I especially liked the Nautical Chart) and then I more or less forgot about him until last week.  Last week I picked up the Siege (Cadiz, besieged by Napoleon's forces) and while I haven't finished it I am quite enjoying it.  Reasonably good stuff on merchant marine and corsair activities, quite a lot of stuff on ballistics (French howitzers and mortars), what appears to be a serial killer, and lots of Spaniards who - at best - are mistrustful of their English allies.  

Message 6a469af000A-10267-329+05.htm, number 128389, was posted on Fri Feb 9 at 05:29:11
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10265-826-07.htm

Re: ‘Which famous explorer gave the Pacific Ocean its name?’ . .

wombat


On Wed Feb 7, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>. . is today's question.
>image host
>Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199547920%2E013%2E3618 to find the answer . .

"Explorer"?  We know it wasn't Keats's "stout Cortez" so I was going to guess Balboa. But .... "pacific" sounds more like a feature that would strike seafaring "explorers" who'd just survived a passage through the Strait of MAGELLAN!.


Message 50e5a913p13-10268-712-07.htm, number 128390, was posted on Sat Feb 10 at 11:51:51
‘In relation to the planet Saturn, what is the Cassini Division?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199609055%2E013%2E0600 to find the answer.

An easy one for amateur astronomers


Message 50e5a913p13-10268-817-07.htm, number 128391, was posted on Sat Feb 10 at 13:37:30
Two Barmecide feasts (1)

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘All a-​tanto, Killick?’ he said.

‘Stock and fluke, sir,’ said his steward, looking beyond him and signalling with an elegant jerk of his chin.

‘You are very welcome, gentlemen,’ said Jack, turning in the direction of the chin. ‘Mr Simmons, please to take the end of the table; Mr Carew, if you will sit - easy, easy.’ The chaplain, caught off his balance by a lee-​lurch, shot into his seat with such force as almost to drive it through the deck. ‘Lord Garron here; Mr Fielding and Mr Dashwood, pray be so good,’ - waving to their places. ‘Now even before we begin,’ he went on, as the soup made its perilous way across the cabin, ‘I apologise for this dinner. With the best will in the world - allow me, sir,’ - extracting the parson’s wig from the tureen and helping him to a ladle - ‘Killick, a nightcap for Mr Carew, swab this, and pass the word for the midshipman of the watch. Oh, Mr Butler, my compliments to Mr Norrey, and I believe we may brail up the spanker during dinner. With the best will in the world, I say, it can be but a Barmecide feast.’

That was pretty good, and he looked modestly down but it occurred to him that the Barmecides were not remarkable for serving fresh meat to their guests, and there, swimming in the chaplain’s bowl, was the unmistakable form of a bargeman, the larger of the reptiles that crawled from old biscuit, the smooth one with the black head and the oddly cold taste - the soup, of course, had been thickened with biscuit-​crumbs to counteract the roll. The chaplain had not been long at sea; he might not know that there was no harm in the bargeman, nothing of the common weevil’s bitterness; and it might put him off his food. ‘Killick, another plate for Mr Carew: there is a hair in his soup. Barmecide. . . But I particularly wished to invite you, since this is probably the last time I shall have the honour. We are bound for Gibraltar, by way of Minorca; and at Gibraltar Captain Hamond will return to the ship.’

Exclamations of surprise, pleasure, civilly mixed with regret. ‘And since my orders require me to harry the enemy installations along the coast, as well as his shipping, of course, I do not suppose we shall have much leisure for dining once we have raised Cape Gooseberry. How I hope we shall find something worthy of the Lively! I should be sorry to hand her over without at least a small sprig of laurel on her bows, or whatever is the proper place for laurels.’

‘Does laurel grow along this coast, sir?’ asked the chaplain. ‘Wild laurel? I had always imagined it to be Greek. I do not know the Mediterranean, however, apart from books; and as far as I recall the ancients do not notice the coast of Languedoc.’

‘Why, it has been gathered there, sir, I believe,’ said Jack. ‘And it is said to go uncommon well with fish. A leaf or two gives a haut relievo, but more is deadly poison, I am told.’

General considerations upon fish, a wholesome meat, though disliked by fishermen; Dover soles commended; porpoises, frogs, puffins rated as fish for religious purposes by Papists; swans, whales and sturgeon, fish royal; an anecdote of a bad oyster eaten by Mr Simmons at the Lord Mayor’s banquet.

‘Now this fish,’ said Jack, as a tunny replaced the soup-​tureen, ‘is the only dish I can heartily recommend: he was caught over the side by that Chinaman in your division, Mr Fielding. The short one. Not Low Bum, nor high Bum, nor Jelly-​belly.’

‘John Satisfaction, sir?’

‘That’s the man. A most ingenious, cheerful fellow, and handy; he spun a long yarn with hairs from his messmates’ pigtails and baited the hook with a scrap of pork-​rind shaped like a fish, and so caught him. What is more, we have a decent bottle of wine to go with him. Not that I claim any credit for the wine, mark you; it was Dr Maturin that had the choosing of it - he understands these things - grows wine himself. By the bye, we shall touch at Minorca to pick him up.’ . . ‘

[http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/1010240/OBrian_-_H.M.S._Surprise.html]


Message 50e5a913p13-10268-817+07.htm, number 128391, was edited on Sat Feb 10 at 13:39:45
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10268-817-07.htm

Two Barmecide feasts (1)

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘All a-​tanto, Killick?’ he said.

‘Stock and fluke, sir,’ said his steward, looking beyond him and signalling with an elegant jerk of his chin.

‘You are very welcome, gentlemen,’ said Jack, turning in the direction of the chin. ‘Mr Simmons, please to take the end of the table; Mr Carew, if you will sit - easy, easy.’ The chaplain, caught off his balance by a lee-​lurch, shot into his seat with such force as almost to drive it through the deck. ‘Lord Garron here; Mr Fielding and Mr Dashwood, pray be so good,’ - waving to their places. ‘Now even before we begin,’ he went on, as the soup made its perilous way across the cabin, ‘I apologise for this dinner. With the best will in the world - allow me, sir,’ - extracting the parson’s wig from the tureen and helping him to a ladle - ‘Killick, a nightcap for Mr Carew, swab this, and pass the word for the midshipman of the watch. Oh, Mr Butler, my compliments to Mr Norrey, and I believe we may brail up the spanker during dinner. With the best will in the world, I say, it can be but a Barmecide feast.’

That was pretty good, and he looked modestly down but it occurred to him that the Barmecides were not remarkable for serving fresh meat to their guests, and there, swimming in the chaplain’s bowl, was the unmistakable form of a bargeman, the larger of the reptiles that crawled from old biscuit, the smooth one with the black head and the oddly cold taste - the soup, of course, had been thickened with biscuit-​crumbs to counteract the roll. The chaplain had not been long at sea; he might not know that there was no harm in the bargeman, nothing of the common weevil’s bitterness; and it might put him off his food. ‘Killick, another plate for Mr Carew: there is a hair in his soup. Barmecide. . . But I particularly wished to invite you, since this is probably the last time I shall have the honour. We are bound for Gibraltar, by way of Minorca; and at Gibraltar Captain Hamond will return to the ship.’

Exclamations of surprise, pleasure, civilly mixed with regret. ‘And since my orders require me to harry the enemy installations along the coast, as well as his shipping, of course, I do not suppose we shall have much leisure for dining once we have raised Cape Gooseberry. How I hope we shall find something worthy of the Lively! I should be sorry to hand her over without at least a small sprig of laurel on her bows, or whatever is the proper place for laurels.’

‘Does laurel grow along this coast, sir?’ asked the chaplain. ‘Wild laurel? I had always imagined it to be Greek. I do not know the Mediterranean, however, apart from books; and as far as I recall the ancients do not notice the coast of Languedoc.’

‘Why, it has been gathered there, sir, I believe,’ said Jack. ‘And it is said to go uncommon well with fish. A leaf or two gives a haut relievo, but more is deadly poison, I am told.’

General considerations upon fish, a wholesome meat, though disliked by fishermen; Dover soles commended; porpoises, frogs, puffins rated as fish for religious purposes by Papists; swans, whales and sturgeon, fish royal; an anecdote of a bad oyster eaten by Mr Simmons at the Lord Mayor’s banquet.

‘Now this fish,’ said Jack, as a tunny replaced the soup-​tureen, ‘is the only dish I can heartily recommend: he was caught over the side by that Chinaman in your division, Mr Fielding. The short one. Not Low Bum, nor high Bum, nor Jelly-​belly.’

‘John Satisfaction, sir?’

‘That’s the man. A most ingenious, cheerful fellow, and handy; he spun a long yarn with hairs from his messmates’ pigtails and baited the hook with a scrap of pork-​rind shaped like a fish, and so caught him. What is more, we have a decent bottle of wine to go with him. Not that I claim any credit for the wine, mark you; it was Dr Maturin that had the choosing of it - he understands these things - grows wine himself. By the bye, we shall touch at Minorca to pick him up.’ . . ‘

http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/1010240/OBrian_-_H.M.S._Surprise.html

[ This message was edited on Sat Feb 10 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10268-712+07.htm, number 128390, was edited on Sat Feb 10 at 13:40:35
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10268-712-07.htm

‘In relation to the planet Saturn, what is the Cassini Division?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199609055%2E013%2E0600 to find the answer.

An easy one for amateur astronomers

[ This message was edited on Sat Feb 10 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10268-712+07.htm, number 128391, was edited on Sat Feb 10 at 13:40:58
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10268-712-07.htm

‘In relation to the planet Saturn, what is the Cassini Division?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199609055%2E013%2E0600 to find the answer.

An easy one for amateur astronomers

[ This message was edited on Sat Feb 10 by the author ]


Message 6242bac700A-10270-84+02.htm, number 128392, was posted on Mon Feb 12 at 01:25:29
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10265-826-07.htm

Billy Ocean?

Guest


www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n3sUWR4FV4

On Wed Feb 7, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>. . is today's question.
>image host
>Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199547920%2E013%2E3618 to find the answer . .


Message 50e5a913p13-10268-712+07.htm, number 128392, was edited on Tue Feb 13 at 10:48:18
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10268-712-07.htm

‘In relation to the planet Saturn, what is the Cassini Division?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199609055%2E013%2E0600 to find the answer.

An easy one for amateur astronomers

[ This message was edited on Tue Feb 13 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10268-712+07.htm, number 128392, was edited on Tue Feb 13 at 11:17:25
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10268-712-07.htm

‘In relation to the planet Saturn, what is the Cassini Division?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199609055%2E013%2E0600 to find the answer.

An easy one for amateur astronomers

[ This message was edited on Tue Feb 13 by the author ]


Message 4747f4808HW-10271-789+04.htm, number 128393, was posted on Tue Feb 13 at 13:09:56
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10268-712+07.htm

Re: ‘In relation to the planet Saturn, what is the Cassini Division?’ . .

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Happens I'm currently reading a series of Asimov essays (collected in The Road to Infinity, most of the essays written in 1979), in which last night I read his comments on the Roche limit.  I'd learned of the Roche limit while reading one or more of Robert L Forward's novels, at least Rocheworld but I think one other as well mentioned it.  So I was aware of the fact that if two large bodies orbit around each other too close, one or both of them may break up, pulled apart by tidal forces.  I wouldn't have remembered the actual number, but Asimov says it's 2.44 times the radius of the other body.  So if our moon were only 15.5km away from earth, it would break up.  And if we were only 4200km apart, both bodies would be torn apart.

What I never thought about until reading that Asimov essay is that the same limit works the other way too:  Any collection of small bodies that might coalesce into a single moon won't have the chance if they're too close to the planet they orbit.  And it happens that all of Saturn's ring structure is inside Saturn's Roche limit.

On Tue Feb 13, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199609055%2E013%2E0600 to find the answer.

>An easy one for amateur astronomers


Message 4747f4808HW-10273-603-30.htm, number 128394, was posted on Thu Feb 15 at 10:03:30
Slightly off-topic: Orbital mechanics and Isaac Asimov

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I've finally gotten smart:  Whenever I see a book recommendation, instead of helplessly acknowledging that I'm never going to remember it when I'm actually at the library, I employ the amazing new technology available to computer geeks like me and write it down on my phone.  Every Thursday I log on to the local library and knock off a couple more items on my list; whatever I put on hold is then waiting for me to pick up Saturday.

So I've embarked on (among other things) an extended cruise through the non-fiction works of Isaac Asimov.  Currently in front of me is The Road to Infinity, a collection of essays written mostly in 1979.  One of the essays talks about Alpha Centauri, comprising two stars orbiting each other at planetary distances (11.2 AU at the closest, it says here) and a third dwarf circling the inner two at about one sixth of a light year.  Then Asimov takes time to speculate about a similar red dwarf circling our own sun at the same distance, a hypothetical star he names "Proxima".  Here's the critical paragraph:

At Proxima's great distance from the Sun, it would take an ordinary planet just about 1,000,000 years to make one circuit of the Sun.  However, Proxima (if we suppose it to be as massive as Alpha Centauri C) would have a mass about one fourth that of the Sun.  The gravitational attraction would depend upon the sum of their masses so Proxima would move a bit faster than a planet would and would complete its circle in about 900,000 years.

Here I gasp in perplexed dismay.  How is it possible that Isaac Asimov, of all people, could get this simple thing so wrong?  For one thing, the gravitational attraction depends upon the product (not the sum) of their masses.  But I can easily pretend that was merely a slip of the typewriter keys; what I cannot explain is how Asimov would write that a heavier body would orbit the sun faster than a lighter one at the same distance.

I'm sort of hoping someone can plausibly explain to me what he might have meant to write, or even that I'm mistaken.  But I can show you the math involved; I'm not uncertain about the fact that all objects orbiting around a body at a given distance have the same orbital period.

Can anyone help?


Message 4747f4808HW-10273-603+1e.htm, number 128394, was edited on Thu Feb 15 at 10:46:39
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10273-603-30.htm

Slightly off-topic: Orbital mechanics and Isaac Asimov

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I've finally gotten smart:  Whenever I see a book recommendation, instead of helplessly acknowledging that I'm never going to remember it when I'm actually at the library, I employ the amazing new technology available to computer geeks like me and write it down on my phone.  Every Thursday I log on to the local library and knock off a couple more items on my list; whatever I put on hold is then waiting for me to pick up Saturday.

So I've embarked on (among other things) an extended cruise through the non-fiction works of Isaac Asimov.  Currently in front of me is The Road to Infinity, a collection of essays written mostly in 1979.  One of the essays talks about Alpha Centauri, comprising two stars orbiting each other at planetary distances (11.2 AU at the closest, it says here) and a third dwarf circling the inner two at about one sixth of a light year.  Then Asimov takes time to speculate about a similar red dwarf circling our own sun at the same distance, a hypothetical star he names "Proxima".  Here's the critical paragraph:

At Proxima's great distance from the Sun, it would take an ordinary planet just about 1,000,000 years to make one circuit of the Sun.  However, Proxima (if we suppose it to be as massive as Alpha Centauri C) would have a mass about one fourth that of the Sun.  The gravitational attraction would depend upon the sum of their masses so Proxima would move a bit faster than a planet would and would complete its circle in about 900,000 years.

Here I gasp in perplexed dismay.  How is it possible that Isaac Asimov, of all people, could get this simple thing so wrong?  For one thing, the gravitational attraction depends upon the product (not the sum) of their masses.  But I can easily pretend that was merely a slip of the typewriter keys; what I cannot explain is how Asimov would write that a heavier body would orbit the sun faster than a lighter one at the same distance.

I'm sort of hoping someone can plausibly explain to me what he might have meant to write.  Or even that I'm mistaken—but I'm not uncertain and I can show you the math: All objects orbiting around a body at a given distance have the same orbital period.

Can anyone help?

[ This message was edited on Thu Feb 15 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10268-712+07.htm, number 128394, was edited on Thu Feb 15 at 14:26:52
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10268-712-07.htm

‘In relation to the planet Saturn, what is the Cassini Division?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199609055%2E013%2E0600 to find the answer.

An easy one for amateur astronomers

[ This message was edited on Thu Feb 15 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10273-875+1e.htm, number 128395, was posted on Thu Feb 15 at 14:34:38
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10273-603+1e.htm

When a body meets a body . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Thu Feb 15, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
. . Here I gasp in perplexed dismay.  How is it possible that Isaac Asimov, of all people, could get this simple thing so wrong?  For one thing, the gravitational attraction depends upon the product (not the sum) of their masses . .

Ye of Little Faith! The Great Sir Isaac (as we we were taught to call him by my excellent maths teacher 55 years ago), is correct. This is the ‘two-body problem’ in Dynamical Astronomy, not taught in High school Dynamics but actually easy enough to understand as it is simply a generalisation of the special case taught in schools as underlying Kepler’s laws.

Have a look at Quick Facts #2: The two-body problem radio.astro.gla.ac.uk/a1dynamics/twobody.pdf


Message 4747f4808HW-10274-898+1d.htm, number 128396, was posted on Fri Feb 16 at 14:57:53
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10273-875+1e.htm

Re: When a body meets a body . .

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Thanks much, Chrístõ.  I'll print this off for a friend with whom I was discussing it Wednesday night, and see what we can make of it the next time we take dinner together.  I'm still a little dubious—the attraction between two bodies remains M1M2 / d2, is it not?  But I admit I'd much rather be wrong about than go around claiming Asimov is.

On Thu Feb 15, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>Ye [sic] of Little Faith! The Great Sir Isaac (as we we were taught to call him by my excellent maths teacher 55 years ago), is correct. This is the ‘two-body problem’ in Dynamical Astronomy, not taught in High school Dynamics but actually easy enough to understand as it is simply a generalisation of the special case taught in schools as underlying Kepler’s laws.

>Have a look at Quick Facts #2: The two-body problem radio.astro.gla.ac.uk/a1dynamics/twobody.pdf

>On Thu Feb 15, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
> . . Here I gasp in perplexed dismay.  How is it possible that Isaac Asimov, of all people, could get this simple thing so wrong?  For one thing, the gravitational attraction depends upon the product (not the sum) of their masses . .


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10279-621-07.htm, number 128397, was posted on Wed Feb 21 at 10:21:17
(YAWN) (YAWN)(YAWN) nnt

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


On Thu Jan 25, CAPT Caltrop wrote
>---------------------------------
>>Boring. Boring. Boring.

>>r,

>>Caltrop


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10279-622-90.htm, number 128398, was posted on Wed Feb 21 at 10:22:42
(YAWN)(YAWN)(YAWN)

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


On Thu Jan 25, CAPT Caltrop wrote
>---------------------------------
>>Boring. Boring. Boring.

>>r,

>>Caltrop


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10279-625-90.htm, number 128399, was posted on Wed Feb 21 at 10:24:49
(YAWN)(YAWN)(YAWN) nnt

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


Boring, boring, boring echo chamber.

r,

Caltrop


Message 4747f4808HW-10279-746+5a.htm, number 128400, was posted on Wed Feb 21 at 12:25:47
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10279-625-90.htm

A proposal to relieve the boredom

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I'm still in contact with Him Who Must Not Be Named.  Anyone want me to contact Kyle (there, I said his name) and tell him we want him back?

On Wed Feb 21, CAPT Caltrop wrote
---------------------------------
>Boring, boring, boring echo chamber.


Message 50e5a913p13-10281-467+0d.htm, number 128401, was posted on Fri Feb 23 at 07:47:47
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10264-716+1e.htm

’Sir Richard Burton KCMG (1821-1890) . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . was a legendary Victorian. Few have been able to match the width of his talent and range of his accomplishments.  Soldier, scholar, poet, cynic, geographer, magnificent swordsman, fearless traveller and a pioneer of successful exploration in Africa, he wrote many books and papers including a translation of the Kama Sutra.  He soaked up the lore and life of Islam and learned to recite the Qu’ran.  Nevertheless he believed deeply in firm British rule in its burgeoning Empire . . ’
www.environmenttrust.co.uk/burtons-mausoleum
………………………….
‘ . . The Arabian Nights had been an important part of Burton's life for decades. In 1882 he began translating it in earnest. Although there were other translations of the Nights in English, Burton's was distinguished by his retention of the sexual content of the original Arabic versions, while his extensive footnotes drew on a lifetime of travel and research. Unable to get an acceptable offer from a publisher, he decided to print it himself, a venture that must have seemed more speculative than any of his searches for gold. He and Isabel announced a limited subscription of 1000 copies, hoping for 500 responses; to their surprise, they received 2000, but kept their word and accepted only 1000. At last Burton's literary efforts were rewarded with financial success, as he got 16,000 guineas from an outlay of 6000 . According to Isabel, he reflected,

‘ . . I have struggled for forty-seven years, distinguishing myself honourably in every way that I possibly could. I never had a compliment, nor a ‘thank you’, nor a single farthing. I translate a doubtful book in my old age, and I immediately make sixteen thousand guineas. Now that I know the tastes of England, we need never be without money . . ‘

Despite its deliberately archaic style, The book of the thousand nights and a night: A plain and literal translation of the Arabian nights entertainments (16 vols., 1885–8) has become the pre-eminent English translation of the Middle Eastern classic. It is the keystone of Burton's literary reputation.

. . The last months of Burton's life were devoted to a new translation of The Perfumed Garden, this one to be made directly from the original Arabic text. He called it 'The scented garden' to distinguish it from its predecessor. 'I have put my whole life and all my life blood into that Scented Garden', he said, 'and it is my great hope that I shall live by it. It is the crown of my life'

Burton was one day from completing it when he died at the consulate in Trieste on 20 October 1890 . . he was buried in the cemetery of St Mary Magdalene, Mortlake, Surrey, in a mausoleum shaped like an Arab tent, designed by Lady Burton. After his death, she burned most of his vast accumulation of personal papers, including the more than 1000 pages of 'The scented garden' manuscript.

(DNB)


Message 50e5a913p13-10281-800-90.htm, number 128402, was posted on Fri Feb 23 at 13:19:48
The five books an old China hand couldn’t live without:

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . former diplomat Richard Margolis’ must-reads for a desert island
Margolis has gained wealth of knowledge after decades of working across China and Europe as a diplomat and businessman. In his spare time he loves to devour a good novel or two. Here are his favourite reads

POB is one: . . I bought the first one years ago and couldn’t get into it. Then in 2012 when I retired from full-time employment, some friends and I rode motorbikes from the UK to Beijing. My companions had all read O’Brian and there was lots of talk in the evening over supper and drinks about the interplay between the two main characters . .

I couldn’t join the conversation because I hadn’t read the books and that stung me into starting again. I sailed through the first book and devoured the next 19 on the trot. I’ve since reread them and will probably reread them every three years for as long as I live. They are great yarns – plenty of insightful commentary about the UK as well as featuring fascinating characters and tremendous amounts of humour.

Find the others at: [www.scmp.com/culture/books/article/2133908/five-books-old-china-hand-couldnt-live-without-former-diplomat-richard]

I agree with him about the social comedy, which I feel doesn’t get the praise it deserves, perhaps because it is too British for many readers to enjoy fully.


Message 6a469af000A-10282-8+59.htm, number 128403, was posted on Sat Feb 24 at 00:08:43
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10281-800-90.htm

Re: The five books an old China hand couldn’t live without:

wombat


On Fri Feb 23, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
> . . former diplomat Richard Margolis’ must-reads for a desert island


I may as well add a newly discovered POBian of my own to this thread, Carol Prisant.

(I devour the arty and expensive design magazine - "World of Interiors". Yesterday I tracked down their US editor, an antiques expert, whose particularly beautiful and original Manhattan apartment mesmerised me. I came upon her answers to the question - "What are your top ten favourite books?")

Carol Prisant:

My favorite book of all time is Moby Dick, although I find it difficult to re-read now that the world’s become so sensitized to whales.

My next 21 favorite books are Patrick O’Brian’s series about the British Navy during the Napoleonic wars.  Fact is, I utterly hate to sail and get seasick at the mooring, but I worship O’Brian’s intellect.  He’s one of the finest writers I know, a Mozart of words.

....


Message 50e5a913p13-10282-783-07.htm, number 128404, was posted on Sat Feb 24 at 13:02:41
'Which culinary spice went by the name of 'Jamaica pepper' in years gone by?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


.  . is today's question!

Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199640249%2E013%2E0014 to find the answer!


Message 4747f4808HW-10284-641+57.htm, number 128405, was posted on Mon Feb 26 at 10:41:05
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10281-800-90.htm

Re: The five books an old China hand couldn’t live without:

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Remember that reviewer who complained that there's "no humour" in the series?  Followed, on this forum and elsewhere, an outrage of incredulity.  I'm not sure which books he was actually reading, but apparently not our author.  My sons still crack up at that line.

I've always liked understated humor, which may explain why I like British humour.  (I've always liked Dave Barry, too, so maybe I shouldn't push that brag too far.)  Maybe the above reviewer was a Yank.

On Fri Feb 23, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
> . . former diplomat Richard Margolis’ must-reads for a desert island
>Margolis has gained wealth of knowledge after decades of working across China and Europe as a diplomat and businessman. In his spare time he loves to devour a good novel or two. Here are his favourite reads

>POB is one: . . I bought the first one years ago and couldn’t get into it. Then in 2012 when I retired from full-time employment, some friends and I rode motorbikes from the UK to Beijing. My companions had all read O’Brian and there was lots of talk in the evening over supper and drinks about the interplay between the two main characters . .

>I couldn’t join the conversation because I hadn’t read the books and that stung me into starting again. I sailed through the first book and devoured the next 19 on the trot. I’ve since reread them and will probably reread them every three years for as long as I live. They are great yarns – plenty of insightful commentary about the UK as well as featuring fascinating characters and tremendous amounts of humour.

>Find the others at: [www.scmp.com/culture/books/article/2133908/five-books-old-china-hand-couldnt-live-without-former-diplomat-richard]

>I agree with him about the social comedy, which I feel doesn’t get the praise it deserves, perhaps because it is too British for many readers to enjoy fully.


Message 4747f4808HW-10284-786+42.htm, number 128406, was posted on Mon Feb 26 at 13:05:54
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10260-725-90.htm

Speaking of posthumous tributes

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I just started David Weber's The Shadow of Saganami, in the Honor-Harrington universe obviously, and saw that the dedication reads

For Anne McCaffrey,
because ideas, like dragons, fly,
and you helped give mine wings.

Thought I was reading an Elizabeth-Moon novel for a second.

On Fri Feb 2, Chrístõ wrote
---------------------------
>image host
>>Obituary: The writer Ursula K Le Guin, who has died aged 88, presided over American science fiction for nearly half a century. Her reputation as an author of the first rank, and her role as ambassador for the genres of the fantastic, began in 1968 with her fourth novel, A Wizard of Earthsea. It has not been out of print since . .
>>www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/obituary-ursula-k-le-guin

>>…………….
>>Ursula K Le Guin, by Margaret Atwood: ‘One of the literary greats of the 20th century’ - The author of The Handmaid’s Tale bids hail, farewell and thank you to the revered sci-fi and fantasy author, who has died aged 88
>>www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/24/ursula-k-le-guin-margaret-atwood-tribute
>>…………….
>>worldsofukl.com/


Message 50e5a913p13-10284-793-90.htm, number 128407, was posted on Mon Feb 26 at 13:13:43
Does it matter if authors make up their memoirs?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'Joseph Conrad invented a boat, HG Wells omitted his affairs. But does it matter if this imaginative licence reveals a different kind of truth?', asks Jerome Boyd Maunsell . .
…………

POB never wrote any memoirs and resisted every attempt to pry into the imaginary persona he invented for himself - orphan childhood in the Irish countryside, sailing round the Med, war service in Intelligence, etc. The first thing that any Englishman of the upper/upper middle class of the period would ask was ‘What (private) school were you at?’ in order to establish social rank and identify links of kin- and friend-ship- it would have been fascinating to see how he deflected it to avoid the truth (grammar schools and ‘voracious, endless reading’)

[www.theguardian.com/books/2018/feb/26/does-it-matter-if-authors-make-up-their-memoirs]


Message d43867a100A-10284-940+5a.htm, number 128408, was posted on Mon Feb 26 at 15:40:04
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10284-793-90.htm

Re: Does it matter if authors make up their memoirs?

Guest


On Mon Feb 26, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>The first thing that any Englishman of the upper/upper middle class of the period would ask was ‘What (private) school were you at?’ in order to establish social rank and identify links of kin- and friend-ship- it would have been fascinating to see how he deflected it to avoid the truth (grammar schools and ‘voracious, endless reading’)

Patrick O'Brian used to say that he was a sickly child, educated mostly at home.


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10287-413+52.htm, number 128399, was edited on Thu Mar 1 at 06:52:56
and replaces message 1892b8f40Nn-10279-625-90.htm

(YAWN)(YAWN)(YAWN) nnt*

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


Boring, boring, boring echo chamber.

Now I did write "nnt" above which means "no new text," but you saw beyond that.

*The message is the denizens of this board are as elitist and narrow-minded as a Victorian tea party. They believe there is a single truth and only they are worthy to be its interpreters and custodians.

r,

Caltrop

[ This message was edited on Thu Mar 1 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10288-536-90.htm, number 128409, was posted on Fri Mar 2 at 08:56:27
'Mega-colonies' of 1.5 million penguins discovered in Antarctica

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
The discovery shows the remote area is a vital refuge for wildlife from climate change and overfishing and should be protected by a new reserve, say scientists . . The huge numbers of Adélie penguins were found on the Danger Islands in the Weddell Sea, on the east side of the Antarctic Peninsula. It is a difficult place to reach and has seldom been visited

. . The discovery of the mega-colonies is a major development for polar scientists – and welcome good news. In October, they reported that just two chicks had survived from a colony of 40,000 at Petrel Island, a few thousand kilometres west of the Antarctic peninsula.

Other penguins are also facing an uncertain future. On Monday, researchers warned that king penguins could almost disappear from Antarctica by the end of the century unless climate change is curbed.

* a group of islands lying 24 km (13 nmi) east-south-east of Joinville Island. They were discovered on 28 December 1842 by a British expedition under James Clark Ross, who so named them because, appearing among heavy fragments of ice, they were almost completely concealed until the ship was nearly upon them.

[www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/02/mega-colonies-of-15-million-penguins-discovered-in-antarctica]


Message 50e5a913p13-10288-822-90.htm, number 128410, was posted on Fri Mar 2 at 13:41:51
Exiled in Belgium, has Carles Puigdemont met his Waterloo?

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
The former Catalan leader must choose between irrelevance and potential sedition charge:- When reports suggested that Carles Puigdemont had moved to the Belgian town of Waterloo, satirists were not quick to miss the joke.

A cartoon in Belgium’s main francophone daily, Le Soir, showed the Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, smiling and waving his nation’s flag as Catalonia’s former president unpacks his boxes outside a suburban house. “It’s only the start,” read Rajoy’s speech bubble. “After this, Saint Helena!” . .

[www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/02/exile-belgium-carles-puigdemont-met-his-waterloo-catalonia-spain]


Message 50e5a913p13-10289-417-90.htm, number 128411, was posted on Sat Mar 3 at 06:57:22
Meet the Dutch beach bison

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



. . The presence of bison, however, is not just something to excite ecologists and frighten the rest of us. According to Yvonne Kemp, European bison are known as a ‘keystone species’ that engineer greater biodiversity just by, well, being themselves . .

Noting the installment of artificial dune barriers and the encroachment of non-native vegetation, the blame was placed upon the decline of a common food source: specialist insects that need patches of open sand in a shifting dune scape to survive.

‘Bison open up the area,’ continues Yvonne, ‘they wallow a lot, so with this behaviour all year long you can see very much local patches of sand so pioneer vegetation [and insects] have a chance again.’ Since they also debark shrubs and trees, and encourage the dispersal of native grasses through their manure, the bison are essentially bringing back the original biodiversity for free.

Read more at DutchNews.nl:
The bison are back: rewilding the Dutch dunes brings back a mega beast
www.dutchnews.nl/features/2018/02/the-bison-are-back-rewilding-the-dutch-dunes-brings-back-a-mega-beast/


Message 47e54da900A-10290-1061-07.htm, number 128412, was posted on Sun Mar 4 at 17:40:40
How many PO’B fans could have diagnosed this woman’s condition?

Hoyden


mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/magazine/a-painful-bruise-wouldnt-heal-it-took-several-hospital-visits-to-discover-why.html?action=click&module=Discovery&pgtype=Homepage

Message 4747f4808HW-10291-606+06.htm, number 128413, was posted on Mon Mar 5 at 10:06:03
in reply to 47e54da900A-10290-1061-07.htm

Re: How many PO’B fans could have diagnosed this woman’s condition?

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


An answer leapt to mind immediately upon reading "painful bruise wouldn't heal", but as I read the details I concluded I'd been wrong.  The bruise was spreading?  That didn't sound like what I thought I knew.  Internal bleeding, too?

It turned out to be the correct answer, though.  The reason I thought of it so quickly is that for the past few months I've been staring suspiciously in the mirror, wondering about the cause of ...

Wait, spoiler alert.  If you haven't yet read the below article, don't continue here if you'd rather make your own guesses first.

...wondering about the cause of some swollen, sensitive gums that bleed easily when I brush my teeth.  My dentist already diagnosed an infection and gave me some mouthwash to use, but that was months ago and I figure if it was just an infection it would be gone by now.  Yet my diet is such that I don't see how this lady's diagnosis could apply to me.  My next dentist's visit is coming up and we'll discuss it again then.  Anyway, it's on my mind.

On Sun Mar 4, Hoyden wrote
--------------------------
>mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/magazine/a-painful-bruise-wouldnt-heal-it-took-sev


Message 50e5a913p13-10291-650+06.htm, number 128414, was posted on Mon Mar 5 at 10:49:46
in reply to 47e54da900A-10290-1061-07.htm

‘ . . “Nonsense,’ said Stephen, ‘it is the most wholesome cabbage . . ’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘ . . I have ever come across in the whole of my career. I hope, Mr Herapath, that you are not going to join in the silly weak womanish unphilosophical mewling and puling about the cabbage. So it is a little yellow in certain lights, so it is a little sharp, so it smells a little strange: so much the better, say I.

At least that will stop the insensate Phaeacian hogs from abusing it, as they abuse the brute creation, stuffing themselves with flesh until what little brain they have is drowned in fat. A virtuous esculent! Even its boldest detractors, ready to make the most hellish declarations and to swear through a nine-inch plank that the cabbage makes them fart and rumble, cannot deny that it cured their purpurae.

Let them rumble till the heavens shake and resound again; let them fart fire and brimstone, the Gomorrhans, I will not have a single case of scurvy on my hands, the sea-surgeon’s shame, while there is a cabbage to be culled.” . . ‘

― Patrick O'Brian, Desolation Island

[www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/5600.Patrick_O_Brian?page=6]


Message 50e5a913p13-10291-790-90.htm, number 128415, was posted on Mon Mar 5 at 13:10:08
The pelicans of St James’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



House of Lords, 20.12.95:
Lord Stodart of Leaston asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether the arrival of two pelicans from Prague was the result of a request made to the Government of the Czech Republic; and whether there are more to come to join Vaclav and Rusalka with a view to restoring the number of pelicans in St. James's Park.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of National Heritage Lord Inglewood): My Lords, the two pelicans, Vaclav and Rusalka, joined the white pelican and the eastern white pelican at St. James's Park in September. They were brought from Prague Zoo. There are no plans to acquire any more.
………………………………………….
Lord Stodart of Leaston: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for such a positive reply. Is he aware of the fact that over the past 30 years or so, when this subject has been discussed, questions have been asked about the possibility of reproduction among the pelicans in St. James's Park? On each occasion the Minister answering the Question has been obliged to say that because of his ignorance of the sex of the pelicans he has been unable to provide any information. On this occasion, the two pelicans have been supplied with Christian names. Does that give my noble friend the possibility of adding a plume to his cap by refuting the claim that has always been made that the only thing that knows the sex of a pelican is another pelican?

………………………………………….
Lord Inglewood: My Lords, I am sure that your Lordships are grateful to my noble friend for having the interests of the pelicans in St. James's Park so close to his heart over so many years. As my noble friend commented, the two newly acquired pelicans are called Vaclav and Rusalka. Vaclav is the same name as Wenceslas, a male name, and Rusalka is a female name. When the pelicans left Prague Zoo, the experts there identified the sex of each of the pelicans. In order to ensure that they are no longer in the predicament of not knowing the identity or the sex of the pelicans, the Government have ringed each of them so that the knowledge can be retained.

Lord Campbell of Croy: My Lords, the Minister who replied to a similar question on this subject in 1988 indicated that the park pelicans had not laid an egg for 300 years. Is that because conditions in the park are not propitious for the propagation of pelicans? If so, is it kind to import those pelicans and so deny them a normal life with a mate, including the patter of little webbed feet.

………………………………………….
Lord Inglewood
: My Lords, an egg was laid by the pelicans in St. James's Park but it was infertile. I am advised by ornithological experts that the reality is that pelicans tend not to produce fertile eggs unless they are part of a larger flock of a minimum of about 10 birds. I understand that London Zoo plans to try to establish such a flock. As for the nature of the community in which pelicans live, it is similar to that experienced in monasteries and nunneries.

Lord Strabolgi: My Lords, is it true that there have been pelicans in St. James's Park since the reign of Charles II and if there are no pelicans there, according to historical myth, dreadful things will happen? Can the noble Lord elucidate on that at all?

………………………………………….
Lord Inglewood
: My Lords, the first pelicans in St. James's Park were presented to King Charles II by the Russian ambassador in the early 1660s. In February 1665, John Evelyn noted that he had seen a pelican which was,

"a fowle between a stork and a swan".

I have no detailed knowledge of the myth to which the noble Lord refers.

Lord Gisborough: My Lords, in view of the importance of the pelicans and the amount of traffic in St. James's Park, will the Minister consider putting up some pelican crossings?

………………………………………….
Lord Inglewood: My Lords, that is a matter for the Department of Transport.

Lord Annan: My Lords, will a third pelican be added so that, as in the days of the last war, they can be referred to as Chiefs of Staff?

………………………………………….
Lord Inglewood: My Lords, I am sure that it is possible to add a pelican. But if more than four pelicans are in St. James's Park they have a tendency to behave very badly towards the other water fowl on the lake; in particular, they eat up the young ones. That goes against the wish of the Royal Parks Agency.

Lord Donoughue: My Lords, I am sure that we all welcome more beautiful birds, especially at this time of the year. However, can the Minister reassure the House that those birds are in fact legal and not illegal immigrants? Can the noble Lord further assure the House that, if they ask for political asylum, they will not have their benefits reduced? Finally, I should like to wish the House a very happy Christmas.

………………………………………….
Lord Inglewood: My Lords, I can confirm that the pelicans were legally imported to this country; indeed, I understand that they went through their period of quarantine on Duck Island, together with the pelican to which I referred which went to London Zoo. I can assure the House that the pelicans are being properly looked after. Each pelican eats four pounds of whiting a day at a cost of £78.50p per week for all the pelicans. In addition, they receive supplements of vitamin tablets.

Lord Stoddart of Leaston: My Lords, I merely rise to thank my noble friend the Minister for giving the House more detailed information on the Question than we have ever had before.

………………………………………….
Lord Inglewood: My Lords, I endeavour to provide whatever information your Lordships may seek of me.

publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199596/ldhansrd/vo951220/text/51220-01.htm


Message 0c61a78700A-10291-1270-07.htm, number 128416, was posted on Mon Mar 5 at 21:10:03
“USS Lexington” found.

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2018/03/05/politics/uss-lexington-aircraft-carrier-wreckage-found/index.html

Message 47e54da900A-10293-1359-07.htm, number 128417, was posted on Wed Mar 7 at 22:39:17
Jack’s (Russell’s) violin for sale

Hoyden


www.thedailybeast.com/inside-russell-crowes-divorce-auction?ref=home

Message c10b0d08cb5-10294-625-30.htm, number 128418, was posted on Thu Mar 8 at 10:25:14
Captain Prince Charles

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



Found a picture of Prince Charles when he was a captain. Two observations. a) He looks a lot better with a beard and should have kept it. b) He looks remarkably like his great-grandfather, George V.

Prince of Wales Holds Reunion for Former Navy Crew


Message 48c466b500A-10294-922+1e.htm, number 128419, was posted on Thu Mar 8 at 15:22:05
in reply to c10b0d08cb5-10294-625-30.htm

Re: Captain Prince Charles

A-Polly


On Thu Mar 8, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
--------------------------------------------------------------
>>Found a picture of Prince Charles when he was a captain. Two observations. a) He looks a lot better with a beard and should have kept it. b) He looks remarkably like his great-grandfather, George V.

Oh wow, he really does look like him!  Love the photo, and the beard.

>

>Prince of Wales Holds Reunion for Former Navy Crew


Message aeda82c300A-10301-788-07.htm, number 128420, was posted on Thu Mar 15 at 13:07:59
“....I must admit they ate one another more than was quite right.” Easter Island is eroding.

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/14/climate/easter-island-eros

Message 605b084d00A-10303-799-07.htm, number 128421, was posted on Sat Mar 17 at 13:18:55
Irishmen in the New World. St. Augustine, FL and the first St Patrick’s day parade.

Hoyden


www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/03/17/the-incredible-story-of-americas-first-st-patricks-day-cel

Message 48c466b500A-10305-565+05.htm, number 128422, was posted on Mon Mar 19 at 09:24:37
in reply to 605b084d00A-10303-799-07.htm

Re: Irishmen in the New World. St. Augustine, FL and the first St Patrick’s day parade.

A-Polly


How cool!  Thanks for posting this, Hoyden.


On Sat Mar 17, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/03/17/the-incredible-story-of-americas-first-st-patricks-

Message 1892b8f40Nn-10306-715+3f.htm, number 128423, was posted on Tue Mar 20 at 11:54:48
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10287-413+52.htm

Re: (YAWN)(YAWN)(YAWN)(YAWN) nnt*

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


On Thu Mar 1, CAPT Caltrop wrote
--------------------------------
>Boring, boring, boring echo chamber.

>Now I did write "nnt" above which means "no new text," but you saw beyond that.

>*The message is the denizens of this board are as elitist and narrow-minded as a Victorian tea party. They believe there is a single truth and only they are worthy to be its interpreters and custodians.

>r,

>Caltrop


Message 47e54da900A-10306-968-07.htm, number 128424, was posted on Tue Mar 20 at 16:08:22
“USS Juneau” found. Resting place of the 5 Sullivan brothers.

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/politics/uss-juneau-wreckage-discovered-paul-allen/index.html

Paul Allen's teams have been busy.


Message aeda06cb00A-10307-1233-07.htm, number 128425, was posted on Wed Mar 21 at 20:33:27
“The Melting Arctic is Messing with Shipping”

Hoyden


earther.com/the-melting-arctic-is-messing-with-shipping-1823957456

Message 4747f4808HW-10308-459-07.htm, number 128426, was posted on Thu Mar 22 at 07:39:01
Happy birthday to Peter Goodman!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Dunno for sure, but maybe he still lurks occasionally.

Message 6cadb28egpf-10309-1223-07.htm, number 128427, was posted on Fri Mar 23 at 20:23:03
The Nautical Chart

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


One more reason to like Arturo Perez-Reverte: He has his beached merchant mariner Manuel Coy, in 'The Nautical Chart', reading Patrick O'Brian.
This has doubtless been mentioned here before; as it's my second time reading this book I might have done it myself. However I had forgotten it and much else. What is unforgettable about this story is the sharply-drawn, believable and sympathetic Coy. He's a far cry from Jack Aubrey, but equally at sea on land, and utterly unable to resist the siren song of Tanger Soto, even though he senses the danger. Has there ever been a femme fatale to match her? If so I've never come across her.

Message 6bd5c1a400A-10312-998-07.htm, number 128428, was posted on Mon Mar 26 at 16:38:04
What Would Jack Say About This?

Lee Shore


How many officers will be beached on 1/2 pay?
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/darpa-sea-hunter-joins-navy-fleet/

Message aee407c400A-10313-403-07.htm, number 128429, was posted on Tue Mar 27 at 06:43:26
Midway albatrosses under attack

Hoyden


www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/27/bloodthirsty-mice-attack-ne

Message 6cadb064gpf-10313-700-07.htm, number 128430, was posted on Tue Mar 27 at 11:39:46
Fun in the Arctic with Sir John Franklin

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


'The Terror' is showing on TV in these parts right now. Except for a bit of incongruous terminology ('exponentially'?), it makes for pretty good watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnN7Aad3c7A


Message 50e5a913p13-10316-756-90.htm, number 128431, was posted on Fri Mar 30 at 12:36:15
Review: Littell’s ‘Courage’ - a breathtaking portrait of life at sea

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


image host
Al Bruce (This is) . . a breathtaking portrait of life at sea, so vividly rendered that the reader can almost smell the ocean and feel the smarting sting of salt spray. Here’s an example of his descriptive powers as a deadly storm grows in the North Atlantic:

“There was no moon and no star. There was no light. There was the glint of nearby foam and the chalk marks of white horses galloping over the sea. The ship rolled and strained and beat her way northwest. Sheets of spray dashed in jewel-like glitter across the running lights: ruby to port, emerald to starboard. There were firefly winks as bits of phosphorescence blew onto the ship in the hard wind. The sound of the sea enclosed the ship in its thunder.”

Littell is a writer who can still evoke what Eugene O’Neill’s called in Anna Christie “that old devil sea.”

In the North Atlantic west of Ireland the fates of two ships combine in 1950. An English tramp steamer breaks apart in the winter storm. Five survivors cling to the wreckage. Chance puts the novel’s central character — an officer of a nearby liner — at the helm of a boat that must battle its way through mountainous waves in a desperate attempt to reach the castaways. Author Littell in his description has created a fragile world of desolation and fortitude, elements of this test of courage.

Even a novel as ocean-centered as would be dry reading if there weren’t more than the sea. Littell takes care of that potential challenge in “Courage.” His background enables readers to appreciate the central character as well as the other seafaring men and to believe in them as they behave in the greatest crisis each has ever faced. The buildup is ominous and gripping, the conclusion filled with excitement and even plausible surprise.

“Courage” is short but filled with plenty of depth. For example, his scenes on the streets of New York, the bay of Naples and in the commercial heart of 1950 London read true.

But given the author’s maritime experience, the details of life at sea stand out with exceptional clarity. Littell summons up a seafaring world lost in today’s realm of container ships. For example, his descriptions of the harbors and docking add reality to the novel:

“With an ocean yet to cross, he thought about tides: the London tides. He would fetch the pilot station at Gravesend on the half flood; he was deeply laden and wanted plenty of water under his keel. Then up London River the twenty or so miles to Limehouse Reach, timing his arrival at Millwall for slack water or the first of the ebb... At voyage end, nosing up London River, she rounded the Isle of Dogs — the three long reaches of Blackwall, Greenwich and Limehouse — and into The Pool above Rotherhithe, laying up in Shadwell Basin, on the north bank.”

That bustling maritime geography of London in 1950 that Littell details here is gone at the beginning of the 21st century, leaving the docklands today gentrified colonies of fashionable lofts and condominiums for the wealthy. Maritime commerce, a feature of this part of London for centuries, lives and breathes in these pages, one of the many graceful notes that embellish this example of that esteemed genre, the seafaring yarn . . The ocean is an immense and perilous place and Littell offers insight into the fractured and drifting lives of men who go down to the sea in ships and the consequences they face in this stark and desolate novel . .

www.eveningtribune.com/news/20180222/review-littells-courage-is-breathtaking-portrait-of-life-at-sea
us.macmillan.com/courage-1/alanlittell/9781429982207/


Message 50e5a913p13-10316-789+04.htm, number 128432, was posted on Fri Mar 30 at 13:09:15
in reply to 6cadb064gpf-10313-700-07.htm

Re: Fun ??? in the Arctic with Sir John Franklin

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Tue Mar 27, Joe McWilliams wrote
-----------------------------------
>'The Terror' is showing on TV in these parts right now. Except for a bit of incongruous terminology ('exponentially'?), it makes for pretty good watching.

>www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnN7Aad3c7A

USE http instead of https - NOT RECOGNISED by Ceilidh because it hasn’t been updated since - when? - a long long time anyway.
…………………..
Thanks for this reminder re The Terror, not broadcast here yet. Here’s a recent review:
~~~~
Stream It Or Skip It: ‘The Terror’ On AMC Review
Franklin
image host
     
Joel Keller writes:
‘ . . The Terror is based on the real story of the disappearance of the Terror and Erebus, as well as 120 sailors and officers, in 1845. An expedition in recent years found the ships, south of where they disappeared, but there is still no explanation of why they sank. With that as the launch point, showrunners David Kajganich and Soo Hugh, as well as executive producer Ridley Scott, imagine that the crew may have been picked off one-by-one by this mysterious creature. Also, the spectre of disease, starvation, and general chaos is always hanging over the ships and its crew as they try to find their way out.

. . This is one of those shows, though, that challenges those who have short attention spans, or just aren’t into thick British and Irish accents, or care about the rigors of being a sailor in the 1840s. If you’ve read Patrick O’Brian’s novels . .  these first two episodes are likely going to be great naval porn for you. But for everyone else, it’s pretty much a slog until about halfway through th . . But once we get an idea of what that creature can do, and we also hear from an young Inuit woman who’s nicknamed “Lady Silence” (Nive Nielsen) who has had experience with the creature, things pick up qui e a bit . .        /i.
                                                                                                                                       
decider.com/2018/03/27/the-terror-on-amc-stream-it-or-skip-it/


Message 6bd5c1a400A-10317-1239-07.htm, number 128433, was posted on Sat Mar 31 at 20:38:46
Courage, A Great Read

Lee Shore


Thanks for the recommendation. I downloaded and read it last evening (just 160 pages). I couldn't turn the pages quick enough, it was so exciting and engrossing!  Littell knows his ships and seamanship.  He also describes the marine environment perfectly - in my reading chair I could feel the salt spray and hear the wind blowing.  

Message aeda928000A-10318-877-07.htm, number 128434, was posted on Sun Apr 1 at 14:36:47
Andrew Higgins’ boat - podcast

Hoyden


www.washingtonpost.com/podcasts/retropod/the-man-who-won-world-war-ii/?utm_term=.543d7cc31e47

Message 50e5a913p13-10319-600+06.htm, number 128435, was posted on Mon Apr 2 at 09:59:55
in reply to aeda928000A-10318-877-07.htm

The Higgins’ boat (LCVP )vs. the British ‘Landing Craft - Assault'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The British Landing Craft - Assault vs, the US Higgins boat

‘ .  .The main differences between the LCA and the Higgins boat (LCVP) were in their design and role. The LCA was more heavily armoured, with bulletproof sides and bow ramp, and an armoured steering position. However, it was slow, capable of only 6-7 knots when loaded. In comparison, the Higgins boat was poorly armoured but fast, making 12 knots when fully loaded.

Both were constructed mainly of wood, but the need to armour the LCA was a problem. This made it both a greater consumer of materials that could be useful elsewhere, and made it more difficult to mass produce. Peak monthly production of the LCA was 60 boats/month, while for the LCVP it was over 1000 per month. While LCA production could have been increased, it would have been unlikely to meet the heights of LCVP production. The LCVP could carry light vehicles, such as trucks or jeeps, while the LCA was limited to carrying infantry. While the British compensated for this by producing larger landing craft for landing light vehicles, this was inefficient compared to the single American design.

The quieter, lower profile LCA was more suitable for raiding operations, while the LCVP was more useful for general operations . . '

www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/46b68z/
was_the_british_landing_craft_assault_really_that/


Message 50e5a913p13-10319-603+06.htm, number 128436, was posted on Mon Apr 2 at 10:03:08
in reply to aeda928000A-10318-877-07.htm

The Higgins’ boat (LCVP) vs. the British ‘Landing Craft - Assault'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


‘ .  .The main differences between the LCA and the Higgins boat (LCVP) were in their design and role. The LCA was more heavily armoured, with bulletproof sides and bow ramp, and an armoured steering position. However, it was slow, capable of only 6-7 knots when loaded. In comparison, the Higgins boat was poorly armoured but fast, making 12 knots when fully loaded.

Both were constructed mainly of wood, but the need to armour the LCA was a problem. This made it both a greater consumer of materials that could be useful elsewhere, and made it more difficult to mass produce. Peak monthly production of the LCA was 60 boats/month, while for the LCVP it was over 1000 per month. While LCA production could have been increased, it would have been unlikely to meet the heights of LCVP production. The LCVP could carry light vehicles, such as trucks or jeeps, while the LCA was limited to carrying infantry. While the British compensated for this by producing larger landing craft for landing light vehicles, this was inefficient compared to the single American design.

The quieter, lower profile LCA was more suitable for raiding operations, while the LCVP was more useful for general operations . . '

www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/46b68z/


Message 6a469e1b00A-10322-132-07.htm, number 128437, was posted on Thu Apr 5 at 02:12:54
A fan in high places

wombat


I saw the retired NATO Supreme Allied Commander, Adm. James Stavridis USN (Ret.)in a YouTube interview. I'd never heard of him but I admired his clever turn of phrase so I googled and came across an interview in which he was asked "If you were hosting dinner for four authors — dead or alive — who is coming to the Stavridis house?"

To which he replied:

"The young Ernest Hemingway, when he was still charming and full of good stories. Shakespeare, to find out if he really wrote all those plays. Patrick O’Brian, so there was someone who could tell a good sea story. And maybe Herman Wouk. Those four."  


Message 50e5a913p13-10324-485-90.htm, number 128438, was posted on Sat Apr 7 at 08:05:22
Captain Jack Aubrey's' Number 2 'Dress Blues’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . as Worn By Russell Crowe In The Film, Master And Commander (2003)
Estimate $25,000 - $35,000

Auctioned in Sydney this morning.

www.theguardian.com/film/2018/apr/07/russell-crowes-divorce-auction-whats-under-the-hammer

www.sothebysaustralia.com.au/list/AU0822/34


Message 50e5a913p13-10324-793-07.htm, number 128439, was posted on Sat Apr 7 at 13:13:24
‘What is the Coriolis effect, first described by French physicist Gaspard Gustave de Coriolis in 1835?’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780191793158%2E013%2E1338 to find the answer!

Message 50e5a913p13-10324-804-07.htm, number 128440, was posted on Sat Apr 7 at 13:24:13
‘If a sailing vessel becomes beneaped what must it do?’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E0231 to find the answer!

This happened to the Surprise on her way to the Far Side of the World, I think.


Message 6a469e1b00A-10325-40-30.htm, number 128441, was posted on Sun Apr 8 at 00:39:52
Sotheby's auction of Jack Aubrey's violin and dress uniform

wombat


From The Guardian:

A 128-year-old Italian violin that Russell Crowe learned to play in a few months before starring in Master and Commander stole the show among film memorabilia on offer at the Oscar-winning actor’s [Russell Crowe's] auction.

The rare instrument by Leandro Bisiach sold for A$135,000 (£73,528), the highest price for movie-related offerings among 227 up for sale in Sydney as part of the Australia-based New Zealander’s divorce settlement.

More surprisingly, a costume that he wore in the same 2003 film was not far behind, raking in $115,000.

While the violin was close to the top of Sotheby’s Australia’s valuation, the winning bid for character Captain Jack Aubrey’s dress uniform exceeded the auctioneer’s hopes by $80,000.

The violin’s price was only exceeded by a painting from Crowe’s extensive collection by Australian artist Brett Whiteley, titled Moreton Bay Fig and Palm Trees, which sold for $190,000.


Message 50e5a913p13-10326-633+58.htm, number 128442, was posted on Mon Apr 9 at 10:33:06
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10324-485-90.htm

Some results

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'Something for the man cave': rich pickings as Russell Crowe's divorce auction nets $3.7m: Actor marks erstwhile wedding anniversary and 54th birthday by selling off movie memorabilia, Australian art, 28 watches and something from the Cretaceous period .  .


. . His Royal Navy dress blues from Master and Commander goes for $115,000. The blue sleeveless vest he wore as Javert in Les Miserables fetches $12,000. The primeval leather jockstrap from Cinderella Man was expected to go for between $500 and $600, but a handful of disquietingly eager phone bidders push it up to $7,000 . . ‘

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/apr/08/russell-crowe-divorce-auction-nets-37m-sydney


Message 50e5a913p13-10326-653+58.htm, number 128443, was posted on Mon Apr 9 at 10:53:15
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10324-485-90.htm

Some results

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'Something for the man cave': rich pickings as Russell Crowe's divorce auction nets $3.7m: Actor marks erstwhile wedding anniversary and 54th birthday by selling off movie memorabilia, Australian art, 28 watches and something from the Cretaceous period .  .


. . His Royal Navy dress blues from Master and Commander goes for $115,000. The blue sleeveless vest he wore as Javert in Les Miserables fetches $12,000. The primeval leather jockstrap from Cinderella Man was expected to go for between $500 and $600, but a handful of disquietingly eager phone bidders push it up to $7,000 . . ‘

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/apr/08/russell-crowe-divorce-auction-nets-37m-sydney


Message 50e5a913p13-10326-654+58.htm, number 128442, was edited on Mon Apr 9 at 10:54:24
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10326-633+58.htm

Some results

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


'Something for the man cave': rich pickings as Russell Crowe's divorce auction nets $3.7m: Actor marks erstwhile wedding anniversary and 54th birthday by selling off movie memorabilia, Australian art, 28 watches and something from the Cretaceous period .  .


. . His Royal Navy dress blues from Master and Commander goes for $115,000. The blue sleeveless vest he wore as Javert in Les Miserables fetches $12,000. The primeval leather jockstrap from Cinderella Man was expected to go for between $500 and $600, but a handful of disquietingly eager phone bidders push it up to $7,000 . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/film/2018/apr/08/russell-crowe-divorce-auction-nets-37m-sydney

[ This message was edited on Mon Apr 9 by the author ]


Message a6d89d6e00A-10332-955-07.htm, number 128444, was posted on Sun Apr 15 at 15:54:53
Maturin Rx for Stranraer

Harkin


Does anyone think Maturin’s prescription (in ‘The Yellow Admiral’) for Admiral Stranraer which the Admiral later abused to his own demise was in any way intentionally lethal on the Dr’s part?

Message d1eafdc78YV-10332-1280+07.htm, number 128445, was posted on Sun Apr 15 at 21:20:23
in reply to a6d89d6e00A-10332-955-07.htm

Re: Not at all

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


On Sun Apr 15, Harkin wrote
---------------------------
>Does anyone think Maturin’s prescription (in ‘The Yellow Admiral’) for Admiral Stranraer which the Admiral later abused to his own demise was in any way intentionally lethal on the Dr’s part?

POB does love to foreshadow events in these stories -

"Stephen's only advice was extreme caution with the digitalis - dose to be
steadily diminished -patient not to be told the name of the drug, still less
allowed access to it. 'More men, particularly sailors, have died from selfadministered
doses than ever the enemy killed in action,'"

And of course, the Admiral self doesed...

The Admiral had congestive heart failure brought on by uncontrolled atrial fibrillation. Digitalis
is STILL commonly used  as the treatment for this condition and an overdose will kill you just as surely now as it did then. Digitalis slows the heart rate; an overdose will stop it. An antidote exists now
that works if given in time - still it can be a touch and go sort of situation.


Message d1eafdc78YV-10332-1281+07.htm, number 128445, was edited on Sun Apr 15 at 21:21:33
and replaces message d1eafdc78YV-10332-1280+07.htm

Re: Not at all

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


On Sun Apr 15, Harkin wrote
---------------------------
>Does anyone think Maturin’s prescription (in ‘The Yellow Admiral’) for Admiral Stranraer which the Admiral later abused to his own demise was in any way intentionally lethal on the Dr’s part?

POB does love to foreshadow events in these stories -

"Stephen's only advice was extreme caution with the digitalis - dose to be
steadily diminished -patient not to be told the name of the drug, still less
allowed access to it. 'More men, particularly sailors, have died from selfadministered
doses than ever the enemy killed in action,'"

And of course, the Admiral self dosed...

The Admiral had congestive heart failure brought on by uncontrolled atrial fibrillation. Digitalis is STILL commonly used  as the treatment for this condition and an overdose will kill you just as surely now as it did then. Digitalis slows the heart rate; an overdose will stop it. An antidote exists now
that works if given in time - still it can be a touch and go sort of situation.

[ This message was edited on Sun Apr 15 by the author ]


Message aeda942800A-10333-688-07.htm, number 128446, was posted on Mon Apr 16 at 11:28:12
“Last Week Tonight” buys Crowe divorce items, but nothing from “MaCtFSotW”

Hoyden


Items donated to Blockbuster Video-Alaska

www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/john-oliver-bought-russell-crowes-jockstrap-alaskas-last-blockbuster-video-1102899


Message 4747f4808HW-10333-917-30.htm, number 128447, was posted on Mon Apr 16 at 15:17:13
"The Secret Language of Ships"

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I just ran across this article entitled The Secret Language of Ships, replete with photos and explanations of the markings on the sides of cargo vessels.  Thought many of you would find it interesting...those of you who didn't already know, of course.  Some samples:
Most ships have clues to their identity emblazoned on their stern, often in the same order: owner, name, port (or “flag”), and International Maritime Organization (IMO) number. American President Lines (APL) owns this ship, christened the Mexico City, and it sails under the flag of Singapore. ... See the crew members up on deck, at the far left and right of the photo? They’re actually dummies dressed as mariners, meant to fool pirates into thinking someone is always on watch. ... Load lines owe much to a British member of Parliament named Samuel Plimsoll. Worried about the loss of ships and crew members due to overloading, he sponsored a bill in 1876 that made it mandatory to have marks on both sides of a ship. If a ship is overloaded, the marks disappear underwater. The original “Plimsoll line” was a circle with a horizontal line through it. The symbol spread around the world; additional marks were added over the years. ... The white circle with an X inside signals the presence of a bow thruster, a propulsion device that helps the boat maneuver sideways, a boon for getting on and off docks. ... The white rectangle edged in yellow—a pilot boarding mark—tells the maritime pilot where to board the ship. Maritime pilots (also called harbor or bar pilots) are experts on the navigational hazards of their home harbor and crucial characters in the drama of maritime life....

Message 1892b8f40Nn-10334-744+23.htm, number 128448, was posted on Tue Apr 17 at 12:23:42
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10306-715+3f.htm

Truly Funny

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


...that a post marked "nnt" (not new text) should get 280 hits.

 Things are really slow (yawn) here. Political echo chambers invariably get slow and lonely, I guess.

r,

Caltrop


Message 50e5a913p13-10336-441-07.htm, number 128449, was posted on Thu Apr 19 at 07:20:43
‘What is oakum and how was it used . . ?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1710 to find the answer to today's question!

Message 50e5a913p13-10336-460+1b.htm, number 128450, was posted on Thu Apr 19 at 07:40:42
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10333-917-30.htm

Samuel Plimsoll

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Mon Apr 16, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
. . . ... Load lines owe much to a British member of Parliament named Samuel Plimsoll. Worried about the loss of ships and crew members due to overloading, he sponsored a bill in 1876 that made it mandatory to have marks on both sides of a ship. If a ship is overloaded, the marks disappear underwater. The original “Plimsoll line” was a circle with a horizontal line through it . . ‘
…………
Plimsolls had to battle with the owners for many years:

‘ . . Meanwhile Plimsoll's motion in parliament, calling for a royal commission to examine the high incidence of loss of merchant ships between 1856 and 1872, was immediately successful. Being, however, staffed by eminent landlubbers, the commission concluded that human error and drunkenness had been principally to blame for the losses. The proposed bill to amend the Merchant Shipping Act did not go far enough for Plimsoll, who moved his own Shipping Survey Bill. Its defeat, by 173 to 170, forced the government to strengthen its bill, but Disraeli misjudged and under-rated Plimsoll, and his growing support from both unions and public.
image host
When Disraeli allowed the government bill to run out of time, Plimsoll could no longer contain his ire. On 22 July 1875 members witnessed an extraordinary scene where Plimsoll vehemently abused the shipping interests, including certain members of parliament, among the villains who sent sailors to their death. Asked to withdraw these statements, Plimsoll defied the speaker, threatened the prime minister, and left the house still shouting 'villains' and 'scoundrels'. Lord Shaftesbury, brought in to calm these storms, commented, 'He is proud of his own impetuosity and seems to think that no-one can be weary of it. I find him bold, earnest, rash. He will ruin himself and the cause by his violence'. A few days later Plimsoll returned to the house and apologized for his behaviour, while declining to withdraw any statement of facts.

. . Further argument and debate, supported by public agitation, led to the Merchant Shipping Act of 1876, which obliged owners to mark their foreign-going vessels with a load-line in the shape of a 12 inch circle with an 18 inch horizontal bar. When Joseph Chamberlain took over as president of the Board of Trade in 1880, Plimsoll found he now had a friend in that department. Rules for establishing the mark's position were set out by Lloyd's register of shipping in 1885, and in 1890 Plimsoll's ambitions were finally realized when another act required the Board of Trade to affix the Plimsoll line.

. . He moved to. . Folkestone, where he died on 3 June 1898. Within hours all the ships in Folkestone harbour had their flags at half mast, and on 7 June a contingent of sailors drew his hearse to St Martin's Church, Cheriton, Kent, for his funeral and burial.

In August 1929 a memorial to Plimsoll, incorporating a bust by Frank Blundstone, was unveiled on the Thames Embankment, London. In 2010 a bust of Plimsoll was unveiled at Capricorn Quay, Bristol, opposite the SS Great Britain.

Besides his Plimsoll line, which is now elaborated to take account of the differences in buoyancy of fresh and salt water and the increased hazard of the north Atlantic winter, Plimsoll's name was also bestowed in 1876 on the rubber-soled canvas shoes, then being manufactured by the Liverpool Rubber Company. The company's salesman, Philip Lace, said that the shoes were water-tight as long as they were not immersed above the level of the band, which reminded him of the Plimsoll line.’

‘Plimsolls’ aka ‘gym shoes’ were the ‘trainers of my youth = the 60s. Utilitarian withno hint of the fashion fetishes they would become.

(DNB)


Message 47e54da900A-10337-389-07.htm, number 128451, was posted on Fri Apr 20 at 06:28:56
The spleen, natural selection, and the diving reflex.

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/04/19/science/bajau-evolution-ocean-diving.html

Message 50e5a913p13-10337-524+07.htm, number 128452, was posted on Fri Apr 20 at 08:43:46
in reply to 47e54da900A-10337-389-07.htm

Re: The spleen . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The Guardian’s free story has yet been indexed; instead I found this from 2010:

‘The last of the sea nomads; For generations they have lived on the ocean, diving and fishing, and rarely setting foot on land. But now these marine nomads risk destroying the reefs that sustain them.

. . Diana Botutihe was born at sea. Now in her 50s, she has spent her entire life on boats that are typically just 5m long and 1.5m wide. She visits land only to trade fish for staples such as rice and water, and her boat is filled with the accoutrements of everyday living – jerry cans, blackened stockpots, plastic utensils, a kerosene lamp and a pair of pot plants.

Diana is one of the world's last marine nomads; a member of the Bajau ethnic group, a Malay people who have lived at sea for centuries, plying a tract of ocean between the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia . . Since diving is an everyday activity, the Bajau deliberately rupture their eardrums at an early age. "You bleed from your ears and nose, and you have to spend a week lying down because of the dizziness," says Imran Lahassan, of the community of Torosiaje in North Sulawesi, Indonesia. "After that you can dive without pain."

Unsurprisingly, most older Bajau are hard of hearing. When diving, they wear hand-carved wooden goggles with glass lenses, hunting with spear guns fashioned from boat timber, tyre rubber and scrap metal . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/18/last-sea-nomads

What a pity POB didn’t arranngeee an encounter.


Message 50e5a913p13-10337-530+07.htm, number 128452, was edited on Fri Apr 20 at 08:49:55
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10337-524+07.htm

Re: The spleen . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The Guardian’s free story has not yet been indexed; instead I found this from 2010:

‘The last of the sea nomads; For generations they have lived on the ocean, diving and fishing, and rarely setting foot on land. But now these marine nomads risk destroying the reefs that sustain them.

. . Diana Botutihe was born at sea. Now in her 50s, she has spent her entire life on boats that are typically just 5m long and 1.5m wide. She visits land only to trade fish for staples such as rice and water, and her boat is filled with the accoutrements of everyday living – jerry cans, blackened stockpots, plastic utensils, a kerosene lamp and a pair of pot plants.

Diana is one of the world's last marine nomads; a member of the Bajau ethnic group, a Malay people who have lived at sea for centuries, plying a tract of ocean between the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia . . Since diving is an everyday activity, the Bajau deliberately rupture their eardrums at an early age. "You bleed from your ears and nose, and you have to spend a week lying down because of the dizziness," says Imran Lahassan, of the community of Torosiaje in North Sulawesi, Indonesia. "After that you can dive without pain."

Unsurprisingly, most older Bajau are hard of hearing. When diving, they wear hand-carved wooden goggles with glass lenses, hunting with spear guns fashioned from boat timber, tyre rubber and scrap metal . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/18/last-sea-nomads

What a pity POB didn’t arrange an encounter.

[ This message was edited on Fri Apr 20 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10337-530+07.htm, number 128452, was edited on Fri Apr 20 at 08:49:55
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10337-524+07.htm

Re: The spleen . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The Guardian’s free story has not yet been indexed; instead I found this from 2010:

‘The last of the sea nomads; For generations they have lived on the ocean, diving and fishing, and rarely setting foot on land. But now these marine nomads risk destroying the reefs that sustain them.

. . Diana Botutihe was born at sea. Now in her 50s, she has spent her entire life on boats that are typically just 5m long and 1.5m wide. She visits land only to trade fish for staples such as rice and water, and her boat is filled with the accoutrements of everyday living – jerry cans, blackened stockpots, plastic utensils, a kerosene lamp and a pair of pot plants.

Diana is one of the world's last marine nomads; a member of the Bajau ethnic group, a Malay people who have lived at sea for centuries, plying a tract of ocean between the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia . . Since diving is an everyday activity, the Bajau deliberately rupture their eardrums at an early age. "You bleed from your ears and nose, and you have to spend a week lying down because of the dizziness," says Imran Lahassan, of the community of Torosiaje in North Sulawesi, Indonesia. "After that you can dive without pain."

Unsurprisingly, most older Bajau are hard of hearing. When diving, they wear hand-carved wooden goggles with glass lenses, hunting with spear guns fashioned from boat timber, tyre rubber and scrap metal . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/18/last-sea-nomads

What a pity POB didn’t arrange an encounter.

[ This message was edited on Fri Apr 20 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10337-544+07.htm, number 128453, was posted on Fri Apr 20 at 09:03:59
in reply to 47e54da900A-10337-389-07.htm

'Physiological and Genetic Adaptations to Diving in Sea Nomads'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Melissa A. Ilardo et al.
Cell. Volume 173, Issue 3, p569–580.e15, 19 April 2018
www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)30386-6

Understanding the physiology and genetics of human hypoxia tolerance has important medical implications, but this phenomenon has thus far only been investigated in high-altitude human populations. Another system, yet to be explored, is humans who engage in breath-hold diving. The indigenous Bajau people (“Sea Nomads”) of Southeast Asia live a subsistence lifestyle based on breath-hold diving and are renowned for their extraordinary breath-holding abilities. However, it is unknown whether this has a genetic basis.

Using a comparative genomic study, we show that natural selection on genetic variants in the PDE10A gene have increased spleen size in the Bajau, providing them with a larger reservoir of oxygenated red blood cells. We also find evidence of strong selection specific to the Bajau on BDKRB2, a gene affecting the human diving reflex. Thus, the Bajau, and possibly other diving populations, provide a new opportunity to study human adaptation to hypoxia tolerance.

hat-tip: theconversation.com/are-humans-still-evolving-freediving-people-have-evolved-to-stay-underwater-longer-95126


Message d43867a100A-10337-989+20.htm, number 128454, was posted on Fri Apr 20 at 16:29:00
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10334-744+23.htm

Re: Truly Funny

Guest


On Tue Apr 17, CAPT Caltrop wrote
---------------------------------
>...that a post marked "nnt" (not new text) should get 280 hits.

I for one didn't know what "nnt" meant.


Message 4747f4808HW-10337-1060+06.htm, number 128455, was posted on Fri Apr 20 at 17:40:10
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10336-441-07.htm

Re: ‘What is oakum and how was it used . . ?’ . .

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Of course I knew what it was used for.  And I knew, or thought I knew, that it was the fiber of some sort of plant.  But exactly where those fibers were obtained I'm sure is new information to me.

There was a time they used to stuff life jackets with oakum, too, was there not?  No, wait, I'll bet I'm thinking of kapok.

On Thu Apr 19, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E1710 to find the answer to today's question!


Message 47e54da900A-10340-665-07.htm, number 128456, was posted on Mon Apr 23 at 11:04:49
How a Common Beetle May Offer Deep Insights Into Evolution

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/science/beetle-evolution-parasite.html?hp&ac

Message 47e54da900A-10345-445-07.htm, number 128457, was posted on Sat Apr 28 at 07:25:16
The decline of shorebirds - bar-tailed godwit examined.

Hoyden


www.nytim

Message 50e5a913p13-10349-392-07.htm, number 128458, was posted on Wed May 2 at 06:32:17
'What is the name for the alloy of copper and zinc which looks like gold?'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199569922%2E013%2E1313 to find the answer to today's question

Message 4747f4808HW-10355-1380-30.htm, number 128459, was posted on Tue May 8 at 23:00:29
Bibliophiles, delight

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


My local library in Rowan County, NC, has a book sale annually, or it looks like they're starting to do it semiannually now.  If a book hasn't been checked out in two years, they told me this weekend, it goes on sale to the public; at the end of the multi-day event, leftovers are donated.  Prices vary, but this year was typical:  At the start it was $2 for a hardback and 50¢ to $1 for a paperback, and on last day it was a plastic grocery bag full for $1 and a cardboard box for $5.  There are usually thousands of volumes offered; it takes hours to give even a cursory glance to every title.

I picked out six or seven on Thursday.  Then Saturday, the last day, I went back and got two more bags full.  This is a good time to experiment with new authors, you see.  I may never finish them all, but for 20¢-or-whatever why not add it to the pile?

The reason I mention it is that I'm looking right now at a thick volume entitled CAPTAIN SIR RICHARD FRANCIS BURTON / The Secret Agent Who Made the Pilgrimmage to Mecca, Discovered the Kama Sutra, and Brought the Arabian Nights to the West.  Author Edward Rice.  483 pages to the end of the narrative, but notes and indices takes it to 522.

I also have a Terry Pratchett, a Larry McMurtry (I never have gotten around to reading Lonesome Dove; this one is Sin Killer) and a handful of others, including a half dozen or so still in the trunk that I haven't brought into the house yet.  This should keep me busy for a while.


Message 4747f4808HW-10355-1380+1e.htm, number 128459, was edited on Tue May 8 at 23:48:19
and replaces message 4747f4808HW-10355-1380-30.htm

Bibliophiles, delight

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


My local library in Rowan County, NC, has a book sale annually, or it looks like they're starting to do it semiannually now.  If a book hasn't been checked out in two years, they told me this weekend, it goes on sale to the public; at the end of the multi-day event, leftovers are donated.  Prices vary, but this year was typical:  At the start it was $2 for a hardback and 50¢ to $1 for a paperback, and on last day it was a plastic grocery bag full for $1 and a cardboard box for $5.  There are usually thousands of volumes offered; it takes hours to give even a cursory glance to every title.

I picked out six or seven on Thursday.  Then Saturday, the last day, I went back and got two more bags full.  This is a good time to experiment with new authors, you see.  I may never finish them all, but for 20¢-or-whatever why not add it to the pile?

The reason I mention it is that I'm looking right now at a thick volume entitled CAPTAIN SIR RICHARD FRANCIS BURTON / The Secret Agent Who Made the Pilgrimmage to Mecca, Discovered the Kama Sutra, and Brought the Arabian Nights to the West.  Author Edward Rice.  483 pages to the end of the narrative, but notes and indices takes it to 522.

I also have a Terry Pratchett, a Larry McMurtry (I never have gotten around to reading Lonesome Dove; this one is Sin Killer) and a handful of others, including a half dozen or so still in the trunk that I haven't brought into the house yet.  This should keep me busy for a while.

[Later:] Oh, yes: A new John D MacDonald, my first James Patterson (Kill the Girls; guess I'd better give him a try), and a three-in-one: Frankenstein, Dracula and Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.  The latter is the only one I've read and I'm not sure even about that one.

[ This message was edited on Tue May 8 by the author ]


Message 4747f4808HW-10356-729+1d.htm, number 128460, was posted on Wed May 9 at 12:09:36
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10355-1380+1e.htm

Correction

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


What an odd typo!  I mean, of course, Kiss the Girls, not Kill the Girls.  The 's' and the 'l' are right next to each other on the Dvorak keyboard; maybe that explains it.

On Tue May 8, Bob Bridges wrote
-------------------------------
>My local library in Rowan County, NC, has a book sale annually, or it looks like they're starting to do it semiannually now.  If a book hasn't been checked out in two years, they told me this weekend, it goes on sale to the public; at the end of the multi-day event, leftovers are donated.  Prices vary, but this year was typical:  At the start it was $2 for a hardback and 50¢ to $1 for a paperback, and on last day it was a plastic grocery bag full for $1 and a cardboard box for $5.  There are usually thousands of volumes offered; it takes hours to give even a cursory glance to every title.

>I picked out six or seven on Thursday.  Then Saturday, the last day, I went back and got two more bags full.  This is a good time to experiment with new authors, you see.  I may never finish them all, but for 20¢-or-whatever why not add it to the pile?

>The reason I mention it is that I'm looking right now at a thick volume entitled CAPTAIN SIR RICHARD FRANCIS BURTON / The Secret Agent Who Made the Pilgrimmage to Mecca, Discovered the Kama Sutra, and Brought the Arabian Nights to the West.  Author Edward Rice.  483 pages to the end of the narrative, but notes and indices takes it to 522.

>I also have a Terry Pratchett, a Larry McMurtry (I never have gotten around to reading Lonesome Dove; this one is Sin Killer) and a handful of others, including a half dozen or so still in the trunk that I haven't brought into the house yet.  This should keep me busy for a while.

>[Later:] Oh, yes: A new John D MacDonald, my first James Patterson (Kill the Girls; guess I'd better give him a try), and a three-in-one: Frankenstein, Dracula and Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.  The latter is the only one I've read and I'm not sure even about that one.


Message 4c729d1400A-10356-1269+1d.htm, number 128461, was posted on Wed May 9 at 21:09:02
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10355-1380+1e.htm

Re: Bibliophiles, delight

Steve Sheridan


It's hard to imagine a Terry Pratchett book going unchecked-out for two years, unless it wasn't a Discworld novel.

Steve


Message 4cdac2ec00A-10357-1021-90.htm, number 128462, was posted on Thu May 10 at 17:00:45
Trump summation

Max



Conservative New York Times columnist Ross Douthat sums up the situation aptly:

Read the things that these people, members of his inner circle, his personally selected appointees, say daily through anonymous quotations to the press. (And I assure you they say worse off the record.) They have no respect for him, indeed they seem to palpate with contempt for him, and to regard their mission as equivalent to being stewards for a syphilitic emperor.

www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/opinion/25th-amendment-trump.html


Message 4747f4808HW-10358-1213+1b.htm, number 128463, was posted on Fri May 11 at 20:12:51
in reply to 4c729d1400A-10356-1269+1d.htm

Re^2: Bibliophiles, delight

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Let's see, this one is...here it is, The Shepherd's Crown, copyright 2015.  The book jacket starts out "Deep in the Chalk, something is stirring.  The owls and the foxes can sense it, and Tiffany Aching feels it in her boots.  An old enemy is gathering strength..."  Also at the bottom it says "The final Discworld novel".  Well, dang!  I don't wanna read the final one; I should start at the beginning, no?  Maybe I'll look up the Discworld series at the library and see whether they have the first one available before I try to read this one.

...Ok, I'm not sure what to make of this.  There are a lot of Discworld novels, and apparently he wrote really really fast, sometimes publishing two or three Discworld novels in a single year.  Except for a few of them (for example The Bromeliad Trilogy) they're not numbered.  Should I just read them in the order he wrote them, or does it not matter?

And the earliest copyright I have is Pyramids but the summary says it's #7 in the series.

On Wed May 9, Steve Sheridan wrote
----------------------------------
>It's hard to imagine a Terry Pratchett book going unchecked-out for two years, unless it wasn't a Discworld novel.


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10359-658+58.htm, number 128464, was posted on Sat May 12 at 10:58:05
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10357-1021-90.htm

Yeah, yeah, yeah

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


Didn't you post this before. (yawn)

Great, a list of petty anonymous ad hominem attacks.  I would have expected better from an attorney.  That the best you have?

The guy gets results and has started to turn our national security and economic disasters around.

1.7 billion in cash to the Iranians and never the nerve to get Congressional approval.

Will you guys stop crying? However please, please, please, don't stop Hillary from crying as she digs herself in deeper, ever deeper.

r,

Caltrop


Message 4c729d1400A-10359-1367+1a.htm, number 128465, was posted on Sat May 12 at 22:47:07
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10358-1213+1b.htm

Re^3: Bibliophiles, delight

Steve Sheridan


Wow, I am shocked, shocked to learn that no one checked out "The Shepherd's Crown" in two years.

This is one of the Discworld novels, featuring Tiffany Aching's development as a young witch. You really should read her series in the order in which they were written: "The Wee Free Men", "A Hat Full of Sky", "Wintersmith", "I Shall Wear Midnight", and "The Shepherd's Crown".

As for the other Discworld books, a lot of them, like "Pyramids", can be read out of order. Others that feature recurring heroes Like Sam Vimes and Moist von Lipwig follow a developmental arc that makes better sense if you read them in order, but it's not absolutely necessary that you do so.

That's what I think, anyhoo.

Steve


Message d1eafdba8YV-10360-877+19.htm, number 128466, was posted on Sun May 13 at 14:37:09
in reply to 4c729d1400A-10359-1367+1a.htm

Re^4: 'The Shepards's Crown' is the last book Pratchett wrote.

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


Even if you didn't follow Tiffany Aching, there are goodbyes to many old friends from Discworld in that text.  He knew it was his last.

On Sat May 12, Steve Sheridan wrote
-----------------------------------
>Wow, I am shocked, shocked to learn that no one checked out "The Shepherd's Crown" in two years.

>This is one of the Discworld novels, featuring Tiffany Aching's development as a young witch. You really should read her series in the order in which they were written: "The Wee Free Men", "A Hat Full of Sky", "Wintersmith", "I Shall Wear Midnight", and "The Shepherd's Crown".

>As for the other Discworld books, a lot of them, like "Pyramids", can be read out of order. Others that feature recurring heroes Like Sam Vimes and Moist von Lipwig follow a developmental arc that makes better sense if you read them in order, but it's not absolutely necessary that you do so.

>That's what I think, anyhoo.

>Steve


Message 48c466b500A-10360-1343+19.htm, number 128467, was posted on Sun May 13 at 22:22:46
in reply to d1eafdba8YV-10360-877+19.htm

Re^5: 'The Shepards's Crown' is the last book Pratchett wrote.

A-Polly


Honestly, read just about any of the books before The Shepherd's Crown.  Not only are there goodbyes to old characters, it is rushed somehow, almost like a Wikipedia description of a Discworld novel.  I felt a little of that in Raising Steam as well.  Go back to the earlier books and dive in somewhere.  Here is a nice list, with descriptions of various ways of approaching the stories:
https://www.discworldemporium.com/content/6-discworld-reading-order

Have fun!



On Sun May 13, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>Even if you didn't follow Tiffany Aching, there are goodbyes to many old friends from Discworld in that text.  He knew it was his last.

>On Sat May 12, Steve Sheridan wrote
>-----------------------------------
>>Wow, I am shocked, shocked to learn that no one checked out "The Shepherd's Crown" in two years.

>>This is one of the Discworld novels, featuring Tiffany Aching's development as a young witch. You really should read her series in the order in which they were written: "The Wee Free Men", "A Hat Full of Sky", "Wintersmith", "I Shall Wear Midnight", and "The Shepherd's Crown".

>>As for the other Discworld books, a lot of them, like "Pyramids", can be read out of order. Others that feature recurring heroes Like Sam Vimes and Moist von Lipwig follow a developmental arc that makes better sense if you read them in order, but it's not absolutely necessary that you do so.

>>That's what I think, anyhoo.

>>Steve


Message 4747f4808HW-10361-31-07.htm, number 128468, was posted on Mon May 14 at 00:31:17
Kilauea

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Fissure 18 opened up in the last hour.  Live streaming at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy4lG6YzLI8.

Message 50e5a913p13-10362-477-07.htm, number 128469, was posted on Tue May 15 at 07:57:04
'What is the name for the alloy of copper and zinc which looks like gold?'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199569922%2E013%2E1313 to find the answer to today's question

Message 50e5a913p13-10362-480-07.htm, number 128470, was posted on Tue May 15 at 07:59:37
'What is the name of the sea that fills the shallow gulf between China and Korea?'

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780190622671%2E013%2E0757 to find the answer to today's question!

Message aeda068600A-10362-774-07.htm, number 128471, was posted on Tue May 15 at 12:53:55
Discharged Dead: Tom Wolfe

Hoyden-a man in full


mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/15/obituaries/tom-wolfe-pyrotechnic-nonfiction-writer-and-novelist-dies-at-88.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Message d1eafdba8YV-10362-805+07.htm, number 128472, was posted on Tue May 15 at 13:25:01
in reply to aeda068600A-10362-774-07.htm

Re: The man did have a way with words...

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


In happier news, Jasper Fforde finally has a new book coming out in August.




On Tue May 15, Hoyden-a man in full wrote
-----------------------------------------
>mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/15/obituaries/tom-wolfe-pyrotechnic-nonfiction-writer-and-nov

Message 48c466b500A-10363-49+06.htm, number 128473, was posted on Wed May 16 at 00:48:55
in reply to d1eafdba8YV-10362-805+07.htm

Re^2: The man did have a way with words...

A-Polly


On Tue May 15, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>In happier news, Jasper Fforde finally has a new book coming out in August.
>
>
At last!

Message 50e5a913p13-10363-418-90.htm, number 128474, was posted on Wed May 16 at 06:58:01
Guardian obituary

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/15/tom-wolfe-obituary

Message 50e5a913p13-10363-420+06.htm, number 128475, was posted on Wed May 16 at 06:59:37
in reply to aeda068600A-10362-774-07.htm

Guardian obituary

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com



www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/15/tom-wolfe-obituary

Message 50bd3ca900A-10363-438+16.htm, number 128476, was posted on Wed May 16 at 07:18:21
in reply to 48c466b500A-10360-1343+19.htm

Re^6: 'The Shepards's Crown' is the last book Pratchett wrote.

Guest


On Sun May 13, A-Polly wrote
----------------------------
>Honestly, read just about any of the books before The Shepherd's Crown.  Not only are there goodbyes to old characters, it is rushed somehow, almost like a Wikipedia description of a Discworld novel.  I felt a little of that in Raising Steam as well.  Go back to the earlier books and dive in somewhere.  Here is a nice list, with descriptions of various ways of approaching the stories:
>https://www.discworldemporium.com/content/6-discworld-reading-order

The one place that I wouldn't start is with the first Discworld book, "The Colour of Magic", as I think it is weaker than those that followed.


Message 4747f4808HW-10363-704-30.htm, number 128477, was posted on Wed May 16 at 11:44:29
Totally off topic. But if you like chess...

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Just ran across this article; far too much fun not to share.  If you're not a chess lover, maybe a waste of time.  Title:  "I Faced Off Against The World’s Best Chess Player. You Will Totally Believe What Happened Next."

Extract: "Here’s a technical diagram of the Carlsen-Roeder game at the exact moment when it really went off the rails:


Message aeda068600A-10363-1155-07.htm, number 128478, was posted on Wed May 16 at 19:14:43
There’s a hole in the bottom of the sea~~clogged with plastic.

Hoyden


www.nbcnews.com/news/world/even-ocean-s-deepest-reaches-are-not-safe-plastic-trash-n874476

Message 47e54da900A-10364-226-07.htm, number 128479, was posted on Thu May 17 at 03:45:55
"a Calamity so Dreadful and Astonishing, that the like hath not been Seen or Felt, in the Memory of any Person Living in this Our Kingdom." Queen Anne on the storm of 1703

Hoyden


www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170309-in-1703-britain-was-struck-by-possibly-its-worst-ever-storm

Message 50e5a913p13-10364-385-07.htm, number 128480, was posted on Thu May 17 at 06:25:37
‘In US finance what was founded in 1792 under the Buttonwood Agreement?’

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780198743514%2E013%2E2321 to find the answer to today's question!

Message 1892b8f40Nn-10364-659+05.htm, number 128481, was posted on Thu May 17 at 10:58:43
in reply to d43867a100A-10337-989+20.htm

Max's Summation Posts of May 18, 2017 and May 12, 2018

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


His May 2017, summation post has 1,017 posts and his May 12, 2018, summation post has 1,010 posts.

WILL THE MAY 2018 overtake the same information posted in 2017?

The dramatic tension is nigh on unbearable.

I thank the anonymous donor who single-handedly boosted one of my humble posts by probably 1,200 hits. His or her primary keystroking finger must be heavily calloused.

r,

Caltrop


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10364-660+05.htm, number 128481, was edited on Thu May 17 at 11:00:11
and replaces message 1892b8f40Nn-10364-659+05.htm

Max's Summation Posts of May 18, 2017 and May 12, 2018

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


His May 2017, summation post has 1,017 posts and his May 12, 2018, summation post has 1,007 posts.

WILL THE MAY 2018 overtake the same information posted in 2017?

The dramatic tension is nigh on unbearable.

I thank the anonymous donor who single-handedly boosted one of my humble posts by probably 1,200 hits. His or her primary keystroking finger must be heavily calloused.

r,

Caltrop

[ This message was edited on Thu May 17 by the author ]


Message 50e5a913p13-10365-783-90.htm, number 128482, was posted on Fri May 18 at 13:03:45
Point Nemo . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . is the most remote oceanic spot – yet it’s still awash with plastic. The area is so far flung that the nearest humans are often those aboard the International Space Station. But even that hasn’t saved it from the scourge of microplastics

‘ . . So what’s the point of Point Nemo? It’s officially the oceanic pole of inaccessibility.

What does that even mean? It’s the spot in the ocean farthest away from land in any direction – in effect, the middle of nowhere.
image host
And where is that, exactly? Point Nemo is located at 48°52.6′S 123°23.6′W, more than 1,600km away from three equidistant islands, including Easter Island.

That does sound a faff to get to. So much so that often the closest humans to Point Nemo are aboard the International Space Station . . ‘

www.theguardian.com/environment/shortcuts/2018/may/18/point-nemo-is-the-most-remote-oceanic-spot-yet-its-still-awash-with-pla


Message 4747f4808HW-10365-1320-30.htm, number 128483, was posted on Fri May 18 at 22:00:33
Speaking of Terry Pratchett...

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


One of the books I bought at my local county library's annual book sale was a Robert Asprin, my first, Phule's Company.  (For less than a quarter, what was I risking, after all?)  Turns out I'm enjoying it immensely, so I'll be looking for more.  Phule's Company seems to be the first of what it says here is a series.

I looked him up.  Wikipedia says he "died on May 22, 2008 of a myocardial infarction at his home in New Orleans.   He was found lying on a sofa with a Terry Pratchett novel still open in his hands.  He was to have been the Guest of Honor at Marcon that weekend."


Message 4747f4808HW-10365-1324+5a.htm, number 128484, was posted on Fri May 18 at 22:04:23
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10365-783-90.htm

Point Nemo's closest neighbor

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Which reminds me:  "Space isn't remote at all. It's only an hour's drive away, if your car could go straight upwards."  -Sir Fred Hoyle

On Fri May 18, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>. . is the most remote oceanic spot – yet it’s still awash with plastic. The area is so far flung that the nearest humans are often those aboard the International Space Station. But even that hasn’t saved it from the scourge of microplastics
>
>‘ . . So what’s the point of Point Nemo? It’s officially the oceanic pole of inaccessibility.

>What does that even mean? It’s the spot in the ocean farthest away from land in any direction – in effect, the middle of nowhere.
>image host
>And where is that, exactly? Point Nemo is located at 48°52.6′S 123°23.6′W, more than 1,600km away from three equidistant islands, including Easter Island.

>That does sound a faff to get to. So much so that often the closest humans to Point Nemo are aboard the International Space Station . . ‘

>www.theguardian.com/environment/shortcuts/2018/may/18/point-nemo-is-the-most-remote-oceanic-spot-yet-its-still-awash-w


Message 47e54da900A-10367-571+58.htm, number 128485, was posted on Sun May 20 at 09:30:40
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10365-1324+5a.htm

Re: Point Nemo's closest neighbor

Hoyden


I believe the antipode is just south of Juneau, Alaska.

Plenty of plastic, no roads leading in/out, everything has to come by sea or air: food, trucks, entertainment, etc.


Message 51873d87cZn-10367-618+58.htm, number 128486, was posted on Sun May 20 at 10:19:55
in reply to 47e54da900A-10367-571+58.htm

Point Nemo's antipode

Mark Henry
markrhenry@comcast.net


The antipode of Point Nemo is in western Kazakhstan.


On Sun May 20, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>I believe the antipode is just south of Juneau, Alaska.

>Plenty of plastic, no roads leading in/out, everything has to come by sea or air: food, trucks, entertainment, etc.


Message 47e54da900A-10369-1180-07.htm, number 128487, was posted on Tue May 22 at 19:39:40
UK's Red Phone Boxes make a comeback.

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/world/europe/uk-red-phone-box.html?hp&action=click&

Message 0ca4b70400A-10372-413-07.htm, number 128488, was posted on Fri May 25 at 06:53:14
Discharged Dead-Phillip Roth

Hoyden


www-m.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/philip-roth-dies/index.html

Is Portnoy complaining?


Message 469e655000A-10372-556+07.htm, number 128489, was posted on Fri May 25 at 09:15:55
in reply to 0ca4b70400A-10372-413-07.htm

Re: Discharged Dead-Phillip Roth

Hoyden


NYT opines:

www.nytimes.com


Message 55e0a73fcb5-10372-1102+4b.htm, number 128490, was posted on Fri May 25 at 18:22:26
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10359-658+58.htm

I'm eagerly awaiting the return of all those coal jobs to Eastern Kentucky.

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com



He promised!

Message 47e54da900A-10373-435-30.htm, number 128491, was posted on Sat May 26 at 07:14:46
School in a Zoo-sloth included.

Hoydendebauched


m.youtube.com/watch?v=XC1AT_yqESQ

Message 50e5a913p13-10373-496+06.htm, number 128492, was posted on Sat May 26 at 08:16:35
in reply to 0ca4b70400A-10372-413-07.htm

Re: Discharged Dead-Phillip Roth

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Fri May 25, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www-m.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/philip-roth-dies/index.html

………..
The Guardian evidently liked him as they’ve published pages and pages about him:

' . . “I write fiction,” warned Philip Roth, “and I’m told it’s autobiography. I write autobiography and I’m told it’s fiction, so since I’m so dim and they’re so smart, let them decide.” That half-defensive, angry note and a lifetime as a novelist crafting multiple “fake biographies”, gave Roth, who has died aged 85, an enigmatic status for tidy-minded critics.

He won intense respect from the moment in the 1960s when he joined Saul Bellow and Bernard Malamudin a Jewish troika at the centre of American literature. But there remained doubts, demands for clarification, as though he had not been writing literature after all, but committing a long, strained, perhaps not wholly candid act of self-revelation which merited the critics’ distrust . . '

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/23/philip-roth-obituary

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/23/philip-roth-portnoys-complaint-and-american-pastoral-author-dies-aged-85

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/26/how-philip-roth-wrote-america

etc. etc. . . .  Enjoy!


Message 47e54da900A-10374-389+49.htm, number 128493, was posted on Sun May 27 at 06:29:17
in reply to 55e0a73fcb5-10372-1102+4b.htm

I'm eagerly awaiting the Tatooed, vaping, video gaming on OXY Trumpistas to cut my lawn, paint my house, and lay my sod...

A Republican NEVER Trumper


now that all the hard working Mexicans, and other Central American's have been criminalized and deported.  Plenty of jobs here, and you don't even have to live in Harlan, KY.  Ad hominem characterizations are unavoidable in 2018.



-

Message 47e54da900A-10374-392+49.htm, number 128494, was posted on Sun May 27 at 06:32:27
in reply to 47e54da900A-10374-389+49.htm

NYT opines

I wrote in a candidate in 2018


-

Message 47e54da900A-10374-394+49.htm, number 128495, was posted on Sun May 27 at 06:34:19
in reply to 47e54da900A-10374-392+49.htm

Re: NYT opines

Posting issues, NYT


-

Message 47e54da900A-10374-400+49.htm, number 128496, was posted on Sun May 27 at 06:40:12
in reply to 47e54da900A-10374-394+49.htm

Re^2: NYT opines

If this doesnt post, I give up.


www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/25/opinion/editorials/Donald-Trumps-Guide-To-Presidential-Etiquette.html?action=

Message 47e54da900A-10374-407-07.htm, number 128497, was posted on Sun May 27 at 06:47:23
Discharged Dead- Alan Bean

Hoyden


www.nbcnews.com/mach/news/nasa-astronaut-alan-bean-fourth-man-walk-moon-dead-86-ncna877796

A great explorer is gone as we American's look back in sadness at the loss of so many of our slide rule capable/engineer/military “steely eyed missle men” (the recently deceased Tom Wolf's best line(?)


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10374-563+49.htm, number 128498, was posted on Sun May 27 at 09:22:45
in reply to 47e54da900A-10374-400+49.htm

(YAWN) Desperation

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


On Sun May 27, If this doesnt post, I give up. wrote
----------------------------------------------------
There are so few posters here, I sometimes think one or two posters assume different personae to talk to themselves.

Sock puppets unite in the name of Progressivism!

r,

Caltrop


Message 1892b8f40Nn-10374-564+49.htm, number 128498, was edited on Sun May 27 at 09:24:06
and replaces message 1892b8f40Nn-10374-563+49.htm

(YAWN) Desperation

CAPT Caltrop
calketrippe@aol.com


On Sun May 27, If this doesnt post, I give up. wrote
----------------------------------------------------
There are so few posters here, I sometimes think one or two posters assume different personae to talk to themselves.

Sock puppets unite in the name of Progressivism!

On occasion, liquor or dope may be involved.

r,

Caltrop

[ This message was edited on Sun May 27 by the author ]


Message d1eafdbf8YV-10374-902+05.htm, number 128499, was posted on Sun May 27 at 15:01:41
in reply to 0ca4b70400A-10372-413-07.htm

Re: Discharged Dead-Phillip Roth

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


He would if he could.

On Fri May 25, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www-m.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/philip-roth-dies/index.html

>Is Portnoy complaining?


Message 47e54da900A-10374-1073+49.htm, number 128500, was posted on Sun May 27 at 17:52:53
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10374-564+49.htm

“The Pyongyang Mission”

Hoyden, and yes, Warsteiner was involved.


"The Pyongyang Mission"

“You had all the advantages a negotiator could desire, and without consultation, nay, apparently without the least reflection you took it upon yourself to throw them away….

“He must surely have seen that he was in a position to insist upon the most favorable terms….

“He could have required a detailed agreement, a properly established treaty with security for the observation of its terms….

“Rocket Man would certainly have given one of his scientists or K-Pop stars as a hostage…and a fortiori all Oriental negotiation, each side was expected to extract all possible profit….”

Captain Bone Spur replied coldly that he regarded his words as wholly binding, that he was convinced that a Nobel Prize was in the offering….

A cold feeling spread through his gut as he realized that the campaigning he so loved for the Rotten Borough of Millport would no longer turn from the rabble rousing of the few and agreeably low education electors of “lock her up” (in the Marshalsea) to “Nobel” “Nobel”.

Lacking the expertise of his advisors, most of whom he had fired by Telegraph in a fit of pique off Spithead, the core of his being; that every day was a battle against the French, and he was the victor every day before the evening gun, he downed a plate of lobscouse Taco Salad and signaled his factor to pay off the trollop who was making noise about, well, another girl here in his cot.


Message 50e5a913p13-10375-838+04.htm, number 128501, was posted on Mon May 28 at 13:57:57
in reply to d1eafdbf8YV-10374-902+05.htm

Re^2: Discharged Dead-Phillip Roth

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Sun May 27, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>He would if he could.

…………….
I’ve never read Portnoy or anything of Roth’s, so it wasn’t till I read akatow’s neat stroke of wit that the idea came to me - perhaps Roth is using ‘complaint’ in its other now less common sense?, =
spec. A bodily ailment, indisposition, disorder (esp. of chronic nature)?

Indeed he is as the book explains with an imaginary encyclopedia extract:

‘Portnoy’s Complaint
n. [after Alexander Portnoy (1933- )] A disorder in which strongly-felt ethical and altruistic impulses are perpetually warring with extreme sexual longings, often of a perverse nature. Spielvogel says: ‘Acts of exhibitionism, voyeurism, fetishism, auto-eroticism and oral coitus are plentiful; as a consequence of the patient’s “morality,” however, neither fantasy nor act issues in genuine sexual gratification, but rather in overriding feelings of shame and the dread of retribution, particularly in the form of castration.’ (Spielvogel, O. “The Puzzled Penis,” Internationale Zeitschrift für Psychoanalyse, Vol. XXIV, p. 909.) It is believed by Spielvogel that many of the symptoms can be traced to the bonds obtaining in the mother-child relationship.’

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/158027/portnoys-complaint-by-philip-roth/9780679756453/




Message 50e5a913p13-10375-839+04.htm, number 128501, was edited on Mon May 28 at 13:59:06
and replaces message 50e5a913p13-10375-838+04.htm

Re^2: Discharged Dead-Phillip Roth

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


On Sun May 27, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>He would if he could.

…………….
I’ve never read Portnoy or anything of Roth’s, so it wasn’t till I read akatow’s neat stroke of wit last night that the idea came to me - perhaps Roth is using ‘complaint’ in its other now less common sense?, =
spec. A bodily ailment, indisposition, disorder (esp. of chronic nature)?

Indeed he is as the book explains with an imaginary encyclopedia extract:

‘Portnoy’s Complaint
n. [after Alexander Portnoy (1933- )] A disorder in which strongly-felt ethical and altruistic impulses are perpetually warring with extreme sexual longings, often of a perverse nature. Spielvogel says: ‘Acts of exhibitionism, voyeurism, fetishism, auto-eroticism and oral coitus are plentiful; as a consequence of the patient’s “morality,” however, neither fantasy nor act issues in genuine sexual gratification, but rather in overriding feelings of shame and the dread of retribution, particularly in the form of castration.’ (Spielvogel, O. “The Puzzled Penis,” Internationale Zeitschrift für Psychoanalyse, Vol. XXIV, p. 909.) It is believed by Spielvogel that many of the symptoms can be traced to the bonds obtaining in the mother-child relationship.’

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/158027/portnoys-complaint-by-philip-roth/9780679756453/



[ This message was edited on Mon May 28 by the author ]


Message 47e54da900A-10376-393-07.htm, number 128502, was posted on Tue May 29 at 06:32:54
Discharged Dead- Author Richard Peck

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/obituaries/richard-p

Any author who gets his “book(s) burned/banned” demands our respect.


Message 451098ac8YV-10376-909+03.htm, number 128503, was posted on Tue May 29 at 15:09:27
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10375-839+04.htm

Re^3: His most famous book was characterized as 'The Gripes of Roth'

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


On Mon May 28, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>On Sun May 27, akatow wrote
>---------------------------
>>He would if he could.

>…………….
>I’ve never read Portnoy or anything of Roth’s, so it wasn’t till I read akatow’s neat stroke of wit last night that the idea came to me - perhaps Roth is using ‘complaint’ in its other now less common sense?, =
> spec. A bodily ailment, indisposition, disorder (esp. of chronic nature)?

>Indeed he is as the book explains with an imaginary encyclopedia extract:
>
>‘Portnoy’s Complaint
n. [after Alexander Portnoy (1933- )] A disorder in which strongly-felt ethical and altruistic impulses are perpetually warring with extreme sexual longings, often of a perverse nature. Spielvogel says: ‘Acts of exhibitionism, voyeurism, fetishism, auto-eroticism and oral coitus are plentiful; as a consequence of the patient’s “morality,” however, neither fantasy nor act issues in genuine sexual gratification, but rather in overriding feelings of shame and the dread of retribution, particularly in the form of castration.’ (Spielvogel, O. “The Puzzled Penis,” Internationale Zeitschrift für Psychoanalyse, Vol. XXIV, p. 909.) It is believed by Spielvogel that many of the symptoms can be traced to the bonds obtaining in the mother-child relationship.’

>www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/158027/portnoys-complaint-by-philip-roth/9780679756453/
>
>
>
>


Message 451098ac8YV-10376-911+47.htm, number 128504, was posted on Tue May 29 at 15:11:03
in reply to 47e54da900A-10374-1073+49.htm

Re: Bravo!

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


On Sun May 27, Hoyden, and yes, Warsteiner was involved.  wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>"The Pyongyang Mission"

>“You had all the advantages a negotiator could desire, and without consultation, nay, apparently without the least reflection you took it upon yourself to throw them away….

>“He must surely have seen that he was in a position to insist upon the most favorable terms….

>“He could have required a detailed agreement, a properly established treaty with security for the observation of its terms….

>“Rocket Man would certainly have given one of his scientists or K-Pop stars as a hostage…and a fortiori all Oriental negotiation, each side was expected to extract all possible profit….”

>Captain Bone Spur replied coldly that he regarded his words as wholly binding, that he was convinced that a Nobel Prize was in the offering….

>A cold feeling spread through his gut as he realized that the campaigning he so loved for the Rotten Borough of Millport would no longer turn from the rabble rousing of the few and agreeably low education electors of “lock her up” (in the Marshalsea) to “Nobel” “Nobel”.

>Lacking the expertise of his advisors, most of whom he had fired by Telegraph in a fit of pique off Spithead, the core of his being; that every day was a battle against the French, and he was the victor every day before the evening gun, he downed a plate of lobscouse Taco Salad and signaled his factor to pay off the trollop who was making noise about, well, another girl here in his cot.


Message 4747f4808HW-10376-914+47.htm, number 128505, was posted on Tue May 29 at 15:14:39
in reply to 1892b8f40Nn-10374-564+49.htm

Re: (YAWN) Desperation

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Clearly you're not just pretending to be bored, Captain.  Your entries used to be much more thoughtful.  Can you whip up a little energy and try to improve the dialogue?  Because if you've given up entirely...well, why post at all?

On Sun May 27, CAPT Caltrop wrote
---------------------------------
>There are so few posters here, I sometimes think one or two posters assume different personae to talk to themselves.

>Sock puppets unite in the name of Progressivism!

>On occasion, liquor or dope may be involved.


Message 4747f4808HW-10376-918+47.htm, number 128506, was posted on Tue May 29 at 15:18:39
in reply to 4cdac2ec00A-10357-1021-90.htm

Oh, this is much better!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


This whole thread is much more interesting.  I mean, sure, it's contentious and it could be improved in several ways.  But I find I like this better than The Void we've been experiencing recently.  No kidding.

I'll try to add something edifying of my own, if I can think of anything.

On Thu May 10, Max wrote
------------------------
>Conservative New York Times columnist Ross Douthat sums up the situation aptly:

>Read the things that these people, members of his inner circle, his personally selected appointees, say daily through anonymous quotations to the press. (And I assure you they say worse off the record.) They have no respect for him, indeed they seem to palpate with contempt for him, and to regard their mission as equivalent to being stewards for a syphilitic emperor.

>www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/opinion/25th-amendment-trump.html


Message 47e54da900A-10378-345-07.htm, number 128507, was posted on Thu May 31 at 05:45:30
Here's Cognitive Dissonance-American style

Hoyden


This dissonance meets the generally accepted criteria:

The importance of the subject to us.
How strongly the dissonant thoughts conflict.
Our inability to rationalize and explain away the conflict.

I’m reading John Meacham's ”The Soul of America”

“Intellectually I know America is no better than any other country; emotionally I know she is better than every other country,”  Sinclair Lewis....

at the same time as “Empire of the Summer Moon” by S.C. Wynne.about Americ'a longest war (the Comanche genocide).

What was Stephen's confession (to Dr. Graham?) that he wasn’t consistent with respect to governments, and new systems?   I think I know how he felt!


Message 0c90440300A-10380-425-07.htm, number 128508, was posted on Sat Jun 2 at 07:04:40
“Catalonia forms government, ends Spain's takeover”

Hoyden


www.wsav.com/ap-top-news/the-latest-catalonia-forms-govt-ends-spains-takeover/1214325558

Message 6cadb064gpf-10383-740-07.htm, number 128509, was posted on Tue Jun 5 at 12:20:24
And No Birds Sang

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Farley Mowat apparently swiped the title for his wartime memoir from a Keats poem. He was an avid naturalist with a particular love of birds, which I suppose puts this slightly on topic. But what reminded me of the A/M canon was Mowat's description of the experience of bobbing around in the Med off Sicily in landing craft, full of excitement and fear, desperately trying to figure out which way was which, when the HMS Roberts opened up with its huge guns right over the heads of those poor sods in their little boats, stunning, deafening and terrifying them. The actual landing was a bit of an anti-climax after that - partly because the Italian coastal defence forces weren't really that keen on fighting.

Message 591e316400A-10384-187+06.htm, number 128510, was posted on Wed Jun 6 at 03:07:19
in reply to 6cadb064gpf-10383-740-07.htm

Re: And No Birds Sang

NiceRedTrousers


I was wondering why I hadn't heard of a WWII RN vessel carrying large guns.....which led me to look up HMS Roberts on Wikipedia.....which led me to discover the relatively rare "Monitor" type warship - a smallish vessel carrying disproportionately large guns.
Named after its more famous forebear.

So thanks for this snippet - I am enlightened!
A glass of wine with you, sir.


On Tue Jun 5, Joe McWilliams wrote
----------------------------------
>Farley Mowat apparently swiped the title for his wartime memoir from a Keats poem. He was an avid naturalist with a particular love of birds, which I suppose puts this slightly on topic. But what reminded me of the A/M canon was Mowat's description of the experience of bobbing around in the Med off Sicily in landing craft, full of excitement and fear, desperately trying to figure out which way was which, when the HMS Roberts opened up with its huge guns right over the heads of those poor sods in their little boats, stunning, deafening and terrifying them. The actual landing was a bit of an anti-climax after that - partly because the Italian coastal defence forces weren't really that keen on fighting.


Message 50e5a913p13-10384-434+06.htm, number 128511, was posted on Wed Jun 6 at 07:14:11
in reply to 591e316400A-10384-187+06.htm

‘ . . Monitor, a large armored war-engine of destruction . . '

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Re: ‘ . . Named after its more famous forebear . . ’

‘monitor, n.   classical Latin . .
I. Something that advises or monitors, and extended uses.
. . 4. a. U.S. An armoured railway wagon or other vehicle fitted with a heavy gun.
1862   T. J. C. Amory in War of Rebellion (U.S. War Dept.) (1887) 1st Ser. XVIII. 24   I was unaware at this time that the railroad monitor was with the two companies of infantry at the bridge, 9 miles from town.
. . 1918   E. S. Farrow Dict. Mil. Terms 393   Monitor, a large armored war-engine of destruction, provided with movable port-holes for machine-guns and large caliber guns... The armored tank is the largest development of this machine.

b. An ironclad warship having a very low freeboard and one or more revolving turrets containing heavy guns (now hist.)
. . 1862   J. Ericsson Let. 20 Jan. in W. C. Church Life J. Ericsson (1890) I. 255   The iron-clad intruder will thus prove a severe monitor to those leaders [sc. of the Southern Rebellion]... On these and many similar grounds I propose to name the new battery Monitor.
1863   Engineer 15 249/3   The presence before Charleston of three distinct types of iron-clads represented by the Monitors, the Keokuk, and the Ironsides . . ‘


Message 4747f4808HW-10385-607-30.htm, number 128512, was posted on Thu Jun 7 at 10:07:55
Informative graphics, revisited

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I just ran across this interesting article about an effort to measure and correct problems in the supply of electrical energy.  I said it's "interesting", in a way, but to me only mildly because I'm not familiar with the issues—in fact I don't think I was ever aware that there are any, except of course when power stops.  But these guys are measuring AC sine waves and taking action to smooth them out by the microsecond, and the claim is that they're causing consumption (at big data centers, for example) to go down by 20%.

Ok, maybe I'll get more interested later.  But this graphic caught my attention; it's the DOE's estimate of where electrical power came from, and where it went, during 2017:

Kind of reminds me of that graphic showing Napoleon's forces invading Russia and then retreating, which someone posted here a couple decades ago.


Message 6242baa800A-10385-819+1e.htm, number 128513, was posted on Thu Jun 7 at 13:38:52
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10385-607-30.htm

You are correct, sir. It's called a Sankey diagram.

YA


d3.js sankey plugin:
bost.ocks.org/mike/sankey/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankey_diagram

google away, boatloads of examples out there.

related:
You are, of course, familiar with the duck curve?


>Kind of reminds me of that graphic showing Napoleon's forces invading Russia and then retreating, which someone posted here a couple decades ago.

Sankey very much.


Message 50e5a913p13-10386-787+1d.htm, number 128514, was posted on Fri Jun 8 at 13:07:05
in reply to 6242baa800A-10385-819+1e.htm

Sankey at work: 1861 - 1896

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Sankey at work

He merits a detailed entry in DNB as one of the civil engineers who built the Empire; however his diagrams are not mentioned:

‘ . . Promoted first captain in his corps on 29 June 1861, and appointed assistant to the chief engineer, Mysore, he held the post with credit until 1864. In 1864 he succeeded as chief engineer and secretary to the chief commissioner, Mysore, and during the next 13 years managed the public works there. He originated an irrigation department to deal scientifically with the old Indian works; the catchment area of each valley was surveyed, the area draining into each reservoir determined, and the sizes and number of reservoirs regulated accordingly. He also improved the old roads and opened up new ones. Government offices were built, and the park around them laid out at Bangalore.

In 1870 Sankey spent seven months on special duty at Melbourne, at the request of the Victorian government, to arbitrate on a question of works for supplying water to wash down the gold-bearing alluvium of certain valleys . .

In 1877 he was transferred to Simla as under-secretary to the government of India, and in September 1878, when war with the amir of Afghanistan was imminent . . was appointed commanding royal engineer of the Kandahar field force  . . On 4 January 1879 Sankey was with the advanced body of cavalry under Major-General Palliser when a cavalry combat took place at Takht-i-Pul. Stewart's force occupied Kandahar, and advanced as far as Kalat-i-Ghilzai, when the flight of the Amir Sher Ali ended, for a brief period, the war.

While Sankey was preparing winter quarters for the force at Kandahar he was recalled to Madras to become secretary in the public works department . . During almost five years at Madras, Sankey became member of the legislative council, and a fellow of Madras University. He helped to form the Marina and to beautify the botanical gardens and Government House grounds. On 4 June 1883 he was promoted major-general.

He retired from the army on 11 January 1884, with the honorary rank of lieutenant-general . . Sankey returned to England in 1883 and from 1884 to 1896 was chairman of the Irish board of works. In May 1892 he was made KCB. After his retirement in 1896 he resided in London, but his activity was unabated. He visited Mexico and had much correspondence with President Diaz . . ‘

Sankey, Sir Richard Hieram (1829–1908)


Message 47e54da900A-10388-346-07.htm, number 128515, was posted on Sun Jun 10 at 05:46:30
“The Greatest Birding Day of my Life”

Hoyden


o

Call Mathurin “astounded”....


Message aeda111600A-10389-1140-07.htm, number 128516, was posted on Mon Jun 11 at 18:59:38
“Just half a millimeter long, this Cretaceous period beetle had its signature fringed wings unfurled when it met its sticky demise.“

Hoyden


gizmodo.com/meet-jason-the-tiny-beetle-stuck-in-amber-for-99-milli-1826671538#amp-kOiQKwfYirSo7Jn63FS8lLo2zdSSSXXIWDU1KrM7nBo-4HMNIAisqv9prncGZqy1

Message 43c9401400A-10390-425-07.htm, number 128517, was posted on Tue Jun 12 at 07:05:09
Not quite like finding ambergris on a beach, selling it to perfumers and setting up your carriage

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/style/article/worlds-largest-pearl-sleeping-lion-auction-netherlands/index.html

Message 451093458YV-10394-792-90.htm, number 128518, was posted on Sat Jun 16 at 13:11:47
Happy Birthday, Grammar Nazi!!

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


And here's to many more.  A glass of wine with you.

Message 4968311e00A-10394-888+5a.htm, number 128519, was posted on Sat Jun 16 at 14:47:44
in reply to 451093458YV-10394-792-90.htm

You, no soup 1 month

Hoyden


Sorry, wrong Nazi

Message 4747f48000A-10396-759+58.htm, number 128520, was posted on Mon Jun 18 at 12:38:40
in reply to 451093458YV-10394-792-90.htm

Re: Happy Birthday, Grammar Nazi!!

Grammar Nazi


Why, thank you, kind young lady!  This wine is almost as sparkling as the congenial company.

Just one bang would have been sufficient, though.

On Sat Jun 16, akatow wrote
---------------------------
>Happy Birthday, Grammar Nazi!!  And here's to many more.  A glass of wine with you.


Message 49b6493100A-10397-1111-07.htm, number 128521, was posted on Tue Jun 19 at 18:31:03
The hat Napoleon is said to have worn at the Battle of Waterloo sells for more than $400K, “The hat Napoleon is said to have worn at the Battle of Waterloo sells for more than $400K”,

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/style/article/napoleon-waterloo-hat-auction-trnd/index.html

Message aeda027000A-10398-452-07.htm, number 128522, was posted on Wed Jun 20 at 07:32:12
“Bones of Civil War dead found on a battlefield tell their horror stories”

Hoyden


Grisly isn’t sufficient a word....

www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/06/20/bones-of-civil-war-dead-found-on-a-battlefield-tell-


Message 48c466b500A-10399-747+06.htm, number 128523, was posted on Thu Jun 21 at 12:27:22
in reply to aeda027000A-10398-452-07.htm

Re: “Bones of Civil War dead found on a battlefield tell their horror stories”

A-Polly


Wow.


On Wed Jun 20, Hoyden  wrote
----------------------------
>Grisly isn’t sufficient a word....

>www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/06/20/bones-of-civil-war-dead-found-on-a-battlefiel


Message aeef035c00A-10400-1252-07.htm, number 128524, was posted on Fri Jun 22 at 20:52:27
Early glimpses of Kubrick's genius.

Eyes Wide Crossed


www.cnn.com/interactive/2018/06/entertainment/stanley-kubrick-cnnphotos/index.html

Message 48ead75b00A-10402-710-07.htm, number 128525, was posted on Sun Jun 24 at 11:49:50
“Lots of People Love ‘To Kill a Mockingbird.’ Roxane Gay Isn’t One of Them.”

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/books/review/tom-santopietro-why

Message 48ead75b00A-10402-726+07.htm, number 128526, was posted on Sun Jun 24 at 12:05:31
in reply to 48ead75b00A-10402-710-07.htm

It took a moment for the book review to post

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/books/review/atticus-finch-joseph-c

Message 48ead75b00A-10403-215-07.htm, number 128527, was posted on Mon Jun 25 at 03:34:32
“Spying Doesn’t Pay — Unless You’re Really Good At It”

Houden


fivethirtyeight.com/features/spying-doesnt-pay-unless-youre-really-good-at-it/

Perhaps Stephen was correct, never taking a brass farthing.


Message 4747f4808HW-10403-1320-30.htm, number 128528, was posted on Mon Jun 25 at 22:00:36
40 maps that explain the Roman Empire

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Thought some of you would be interested in this article about the Roman Empire.  One thing I never knew before:  Apparently there were two areas called "Iberia"; the other one was an area east of the Black Sea and west of the northern half of the Caspian Sea.  I wonder how they kept them straight...or maybe that's why they started calling the Iberian Peninsula "Hispania".


Message 6296fb8f00A-10404-177-07.htm, number 128529, was posted on Tue Jun 26 at 02:57:27
“How China Got Sri Lanka to Cough Up a Port”

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html?hp&action

Message aeef057800A-10404-685-07.htm, number 128530, was posted on Tue Jun 26 at 11:25:01
Discharged Dead- Donald Hall, former Poet Laureate

Hoyden


t

Message 6cadb064gpf-10405-677+1c.htm, number 128531, was posted on Wed Jun 27 at 11:17:06
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10403-1320-30.htm

Re: 40 maps that explain the Roman Empire

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Thanks Bob. Interesting stuff, well-presented for short attention span types like me.


On Mon Jun 25, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Thought some of you would be interested in this article about the Roman Empire.  One thing I never knew before:  Apparently there were two areas called "Iberia"; the other one was an area east of the Black Sea and west of the northern half of the Caspian Sea.  I wonder how they kept them straight...or maybe that's why they started calling the Iberian Peninsula "Hispania".

>


Message 47e54da900A-10407-255-07.htm, number 128532, was posted on Fri Jun 29 at 04:14:59
A dearth of small beer? Will it the the potent arrack or the vile rum to take its place?

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2018/06/27/opinions/beer-rationing-in-britain-jones/index.html

Message 4747f4808HW-10407-1008-30.htm, number 128533, was posted on Fri Jun 29 at 16:48:38
Harlan Ellison, dead at ~84~?!

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I just read here that Harlan Ellison died yesterday, and that he was 84.  I had no idea he was so much older than me.

Back in the '70s Isaac Asimov, editing a collection of the year's Hugo winners or at least some collection of science fiction, recounted a story that I can't find on the internet but I'll quote it as best I can:

Back in 196?, at one of the sci-fi cons in <city>, there was a young fan who seemed memorable.  He was short, had big glasses, and was very serious; he ran around approaching authors, asking questions and taking notes.  Sci-fi authors are easily flattered, as you might guess by listening to me, and many of them gave him lots of hints.  We had no idea, of course, that this one was going to grow up to The Harlan Ellison.

A few years ago a weird sense of déja vu came to the con in <city>; there was a young person, big glasses, very serious, taking notes.  We all looked at each other and said "It's him!"

And one of us, whose name I won't mention except to say that his initials were Robert Silverberg, said "Let's kill him now".


Message 50e5a913p13-10409-758-90.htm, number 128534, was posted on Sun Jul 1 at 12:37:45
'The entire habitat is gone': Hawaii's natural wonders claimed by lava

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


In Puna, the area of Hawaii island that’s been hardest hit by the Kilauea volcano eruption, those who lived nearest to the lava flows watched the forest around their homes begin to die first. They said the fruit trees, flowers and ferns began turning brown, languishing in the noxious, sulfur-dioxide-filled air. Then the lava came. Now large swaths of formerly verdant forest have been replaced by rough and barren volcanic terrain.

“Before the eruptions, that area was probably the best forest left in the state of Hawaii,” said Patrick Hart, a biology professor at the University of Hawaii at Hilo. “There were areas where the native Ohia forest extended right up to the ocean, and you just don’t see that in the rest of Hawaii,” he said. Now it’s covered with 20 to 30ft of lava.

. .  The loss to scientists has been great. “There was no place like Kapoho in all of Hawaii,” said John Burns, who spent a decade studying coral in the tide pools, said. “That entire habitat is gone now.” Once the glassy volcanic particles dissipate and the PH and temperature of the water returns to normal, he said, the coral can begin to regrow. But it will be starting from scratch, just as part of that area did when it was formed by lava in the 1950s and 1960s. How fast the coral regrow will depend on whether the lava creates a sloping coastline, or protected pools like it did in Kapoho, which can allow for faster growth than the usual rate of one centimeter per-year.

“In terms of marine organisms and coral, we’re basically starting from day one now.” And yet, he said, it’s easier to lose an irreplaceable reef to lava than it is to lose it to bleaching, which has happened in many places in Hawaii because of a global rise in ocean temperatures. There’s the tragedy of people losing their homes and for us, as scientists, losing our research site. But from the perspective of the environment, this is a natural cycle,” he said. “I’d much rather see a reef die from lava than from bleaching.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/20/hawaii-volcano-eruption-kilauea-natural-wonders-destroyed-kapoho-bay


Message 4747f4808HW-10413-707-30.htm, number 128535, was posted on Thu Jul 5 at 11:47:22
It's not AI

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


<rant>

Here’s a snippet of an article I just read at The Verge:

...the dream of a fully autonomous car may be further than we realize. There’s growing concern among AI experts that it may be years, if not decades, before self-driving systems can reliably avoid accidents. As self-trained systems grapple with the chaos of the real world, experts like NYU’s Gary Marcus are bracing for a painful recalibration in expectations, a correction sometimes called “AI winter.” That delay could have disastrous consequences for companies banking on self-driving technology, putting full autonomy out of reach for an entire generation.

This highlights a mistake I’ve seen growing for the past year or so:  The author is thinking that autonomous cars, and any other complex coding, represent Artificial Intelligence.  But AI is something pretty specific, the hoped-for ability of a computer program to learn new facts that can then be used to make better decisions.  Ideally it would be able to modify its own programming, which is what (so to speak) humans do; as an approximation of that goal, I think AI experts would be happy to achieve code that stores new facts in a database and refers to the database, and call that “intelligence” although strictly speaking it may not be.

But a complex program that plays chess, or attempts (badly) to play bridge, or that drives a car without human interaction, that’s not AI; that’s just an impressive program.

I’ll bet trying to correct this error is about as hopeless a task as getting people to remember that “hacker” doesn’t mean someone who breaks into others’ computers....or didn't originally.

</rant>


Message 50e5a913p13-10414-352-90.htm, number 128536, was posted on Fri Jul 6 at 05:52:00
Thailand cave rescue:news blog Friday

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/06/thailand-cave-rescue-looming-rain-clouds-could-force-quick-rescue-decision-live


Message 56003e26cb5-10414-672+1d.htm, number 128537, was posted on Fri Jul 6 at 11:12:00
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10413-707-30.htm

Quite so.

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com


Once a self-driving car can handle India's traffic, I'll proclaim them ready. Unattended cows, camel- and donkey-carts, pedestrians, hugely overloaded scooters (whole families!), auto-rickshaws, cyclists, peculiar cycle-based contraptions holding vast amounts of freight, cars, gaily-painted trucks with "HORN PLEASE" written on the back, pariah dogs literally asleep in the middle of an intersection... and that's before we get to the roads themselves. No road markings, no traffic lights, no lanes.

I concluded that the only rule of the road in India was "everybody just be cool." If everybody's cool, we'll get through this. It might take all week, but we'll get there.

I don't think "Everybody just be cool" can be coded into an algorithm. It's a state of being.

People were driving around the pariah dogs. Nobody made any effort to move them on.


Message 446488d7qHC-10416-1195-30.htm, number 128538, was posted on Sun Jul 8 at 19:55:00
British Library O'Brian Event

Terry Zobeck
turtle15@cox.net


I don't know whether this has been mentioned on the Forum but the British Library, in conjunction with an exhibit on Captain Cook, is hosting an evening devoted to Patrick O'Brian on July 16. Nikolai Tolstoy will give a talk about O'Brian, which will include an update on volume II of his biography.  I had the honor of being his first reader as he wrote each chapter and have read the completed revised draft.  It is fascinating and informative.  There is no publication date but I hope it will see print within the year.

Geoff Hunt also will be speaking about his relationship with O'Brian and the work he did in producing the pictures for the dust jackets.

And last and least, I will be the opening presenter, discussing the annotated bibliography of O'Brian's writings that I've been compiling these past many years.

If any Forumites are in the London area next Monday, please come and stop by after the talk.  I'd love to meet folks in person.


Message 40915e988YV-10417-888+1d.htm, number 128539, was posted on Mon Jul 9 at 14:47:43
in reply to 446488d7qHC-10416-1195-30.htm

Wow!!

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


Terry, that's just amazing.  I wish I could be there.

Perhaps, Christo???



On Sun Jul 8, Terry Zobeck wrote
--------------------------------
>I don't know whether this has been mentioned on the Forum but the British Library, in conjunction with an exhibit on Captain Cook, is hosting an evening devoted to Patrick O'Brian on July 16. Nikolai Tolstoy will give a talk about O'Brian, which will include an update on volume II of his biography.  I had the honor of being his first reader as he wrote each chapter and have read the completed revised draft.  It is fascinating and informative.  There is no publication date but I hope it will see print within the year.

>Geoff Hunt also will be speaking about his relationship with O'Brian and the work he did in producing the pictures for the dust jackets.

>And last and least, I will be the opening presenter, discussing the annotated bibliography of O'Brian's writings that I've been compiling these past many years.

>If any Forumites are in the London area next Monday, please come and stop by after the talk.  I'd love to meet folks in person.


Message 4747f4808HW-10417-1065+1d.htm, number 128540, was posted on Mon Jul 9 at 17:44:54
in reply to 446488d7qHC-10416-1195-30.htm

I can't be there, but...

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


I've been privileged to attend two POB events, one in DC and one in Chicago, and it was a real pleasure meeting fellow fans, especially those who occasionally contribute here.  I won't be in London any time soon (unless you see me there with a really, really surprised expression on my face), but let me add my happiest recommendations that you give it a try if you're the least bit tempted.

On Sun Jul 8, Terry Zobeck wrote
--------------------------------
>I don't know whether this has been mentioned on the Forum but the British Library, in conjunction with an exhibit on Captain Cook, is hosting an evening devoted to Patrick O'Brian on July 16. Nikolai Tolstoy will give a talk about O'Brian, which will include an update on volume II of his biography.  I had the honor of being his first reader as he wrote each chapter and have read the completed revised draft.  It is fascinating and informative.  There is no publication date but I hope it will see print within the year.

>Geoff Hunt also will be speaking about his relationship with O'Brian and the work he did in producing the pictures for the dust jackets.

>And last and least, I will be the opening presenter, discussing the annotated bibliography of O'Brian's writings that I've been compiling these past many years.

>If any Forumites are in the London area next Monday, please come and stop by after the talk.  I'd love to meet folks in person.


Message aeda951700A-10419-1017-07.htm, number 128541, was posted on Wed Jul 11 at 16:57:24
World Cup

Hoyden


Will the manager be judicially murdered on his own QuarterPitch?

Message 4747f4808HW-10419-1051+07.htm, number 128542, was posted on Wed Jul 11 at 17:30:42
in reply to aeda951700A-10419-1017-07.htm

Re: World Cup

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Hey, England got farther than they have in a long time.  I know they don't feel like celebrating just now, but it was a good thing.

I've got nothing against England; they and the US have been friends a long time, and in most other games I'd have been rooting for them.  But I've been watching Croatia for the past few games and I like the way they play.  There's that one Croatian player whom I would have red-carded already, at least once, but for the rest I appreciate that they challenge instead of guard, and of course their record defending against penalty kicks is amazing.  I'm happy to see them advance.

...Although I realize England would really have liked a chance to defeat France again.

On Wed Jul 11, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>Will the manager be judicially murdered on his own QuarterPitch?


Message 4747f4808HW-10419-1051+07.htm, number 128542, was edited on Wed Jul 11 at 17:31:13
Re: World Cup

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Hey, England got farther than they have in a long time.  I know they don't feel like celebrating just now, but it was a good thing.

I've got nothing against England; they and the US have been friends a long time, and in most other games I'd have been rooting for them.  But I've been watching Croatia for the past few games and I like the way they play.  There's that one Croatian player whom I would have red-carded already, at least once, but for the rest I appreciate that they challenge instead of guard, and of course their record defending against penalty kicks is amazing.  I'm happy to see them advance.

...Although I realize England would really have liked a chance to defeat France again.

See you Sunday.

On Wed Jul 11, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>Will the manager be judicially murdered on his own QuarterPitch?

[ This message was edited on Wed Jul 11 by the author ]


Message 4747f4808HW-10419-1064-30.htm, number 128543, was posted on Wed Jul 11 at 17:44:16
"Why Does Every Soccer Player Do This?"

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


When I saw the title of this article, I thought it was going to be about something else.  Still mildly interesting, though.

What I really want to know is why soccer players at the professional level still get excited and lean back as they take a shot on goal.  It's what you want to do when you want a powerful kick to get the ball 'way upfield.  But when you're taking a shot on goal you don't want the ball to end up in the stands.  I get that novice players do this.  But by the time you're in the pros, shouldn't your coaches have drilled that out of you?

Evidently not, but I don't understand why.  "Keep your bloody head down!", I shout at the TV.  Surprisingly, it doesn't help.


Message 47e54da900A-10420-428+1d.htm, number 128544, was posted on Thu Jul 12 at 07:07:53
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10419-1064-30.htm

Left elbow straight, ball off right instep

Hoyden


don’t break your wrist through impact 1” behind the ball, or you’ll chilli dip straight up and still be away (or in the trap).

Message 50e5a913p13-10421-656+19.htm, number 128545, was posted on Fri Jul 13 at 10:56:23
in reply to 446488d7qHC-10416-1195-30.htm

Re: British Library O'Brian Event - full details

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Many thanks for this alert: this seminar has not been mentioned before.; I have a got myself a ticket and will say 'hello' afterwards:

'TALKS AND DISCUSSIONS - Patrick O'Brian: Novelist of the Sea

Mon 16 Jul 2018, 19:00 - 20:30
Yellow Admiral (painted by Geoff Hunt)
Book now
Tel: +44 (0)1937 546546
Email: boxoffice@bl.uk
Full Price: £12.00
Member: £12.00
Under 18: £8.00
Other concessions available
A celebration of the author

Celebrate the writer Patrick O’Brian, acclaimed for his sea-faring novels featuring Captain Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin (the basis of the film Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World), with writer and historian Nikolai Tolstoy, artist Geoff Hunt, historian and presenter Kate Williams and others.
O’Brian was a thorough researcher and consulted original documents, such as contemporary logbooks, memoirs, official letters as well as borrowing from the real-life naval exploits of the Scottish captain and politician, Lord Cochrane for his series. The fruits of this research also led him to write a biography of the naturalist Sir Joseph Banks, who accompanied James Cook on his first voyage and was an inspiration for Stephen Maturin’s character.

In 2017 the British Library acquired the diaries of Patrick O’Brian.

Nikolai Tolstoy is a writer and historian and is Patrick O’Brian’s step son. He published the first volume of a biography in 2004, Patrick O'Brian – The Making of the Novelist.

Geoff Hunt is one of the world’s finest marine artists, and his paintings feature on the covers of Patrick O’Brian’s Aubrey-Maturin books. Through his research, he is a leading authority on naval history and ship architecture of the 18th and 19th centuries.

Image: Cover details from TheYellow Admiral. Painting by Geoff Hunt RSMA represented by Artist Partners Ltd. Image reproduced by kind permission of Harper Collins Publishers

Details

Name:     Patrick O'Brian: Novelist of the Sea
Where:     Knowledge Centre
The British Library
96 Euston Road
London
NW1 2DB
Show Map      How to get to the Library
When:     Mon 16 Jul 2018, 19:00 - 20:30
Price:     Full Price: £12.00
Member: £12.00
Senior 60+: £10.00
Student: £8.00
Registered Unemployed: £8.00
Under 18: £8.00
Enquiries:     +44 (0)1937 546546
boxoffice@bl.uk'
.............
www.bl.uk/events/patrick-o-brian-novelist-of-the-sea

It is excellent news that Vol 2 is almost done - I had long feared that Tolstoy (now aged 83) had tacitly abandoned this labour of love.


Message 48c466b500A-10422-95+18.htm, number 128546, was posted on Sat Jul 14 at 01:35:32
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10421-656+19.htm

Re^2: British Library O'Brian Event - full details

A-Polly


Lucky man — how great that you are able to attend!  Hope you have a fascinating time, and that we might get to read a few of your impressions after the event.  Have fun!  




On Fri Jul 13, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>Many thanks for this alert: this seminar has not been mentioned before.; I have a got myself a ticket and will say 'hello' afterwards:

>'TALKS AND DISCUSSIONS - Patrick O'Brian: Novelist of the Sea

>Mon 16 Jul 2018, 19:00 - 20:30
>Yellow Admiral (painted by Geoff Hunt)
>Book now
>Tel: +44 (0)1937 546546
>Email: boxoffice@bl.uk
>

Full Price: £12.00
>Member: £12.00
>Under 18: £8.00
>Other concessions available
>A celebration of the author

>Celebrate the writer Patrick O’Brian, acclaimed for his sea-faring novels featuring Captain Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin (the basis of the film Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World), with writer and historian Nikolai Tolstoy, artist Geoff Hunt, historian and presenter Kate Williams and others.
>O’Brian was a thorough researcher and consulted original documents, such as contemporary logbooks, memoirs, official letters as well as borrowing from the real-life naval exploits of the Scottish captain and politician, Lord Cochrane for his series. The fruits of this research also led him to write a biography of the naturalist Sir Joseph Banks, who accompanied James Cook on his first voyage and was an inspiration for Stephen Maturin’s character.

>In 2017 the British Library acquired the diaries of Patrick O’Brian.

>Nikolai Tolstoy is a writer and historian and is Patrick O’Brian’s step son. He published the first volume of a biography in 2004, Patrick O'Brian – The Making of the Novelist.

>Geoff Hunt is one of the world’s finest marine artists, and his paintings feature on the covers of Patrick O’Brian’s Aubrey-Maturin books. Through his research, he is a leading authority on naval history and ship architecture of the 18th and 19th centuries.

>Image: Cover details from TheYellow Admiral. Painting by Geoff Hunt RSMA represented by Artist Partners Ltd. Image reproduced by kind permission of Harper Collins Publishers

>Details

>Name:     Patrick O'Brian: Novelist of the Sea
>Where:     Knowledge Centre
>The British Library
>96 Euston Road
>London
>NW1 2DB
>Show Map      How to get to the Library
>When:     Mon 16 Jul 2018, 19:00 - 20:30
>Price:     Full Price: £12.00
>Member: £12.00
>Senior 60+: £10.00
>Student: £8.00
>Registered Unemployed: £8.00
>Under 18: £8.00
>Enquiries:     +44 (0)1937 546546
>boxoffice@bl.uk'
>.............
>www.bl.uk/events/patrick-o-brian-novelist-of-the-sea

>It is excellent news that Vol 2 is almost done - I had long feared that Tolstoy (now aged 83) had tacitly abandoned this labour of love.
>


Message 47e54da900A-10423-1128-07.htm, number 128547, was posted on Sun Jul 15 at 18:48:06
Threats to coffee—what would Killick do?

Hoyden


www.nbcnews.com/news/world/colombia-s-coffee-danger-these-scientists-are-fighting-save-it-n891221

Message d1eafda28YV-10423-1253+17.htm, number 128548, was posted on Sun Jul 15 at 20:53:29
in reply to 446488d7qHC-10416-1195-30.htm

Re: British Library O'Brian Event

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


I tipped off Frenchie and he’s going to try to attend the event, so keep an eye out.

Boy howdy - I wish I could be there for that conversation....

On Sun Jul 8, Terry Zobeck wrote
--------------------------------
>I don't know whether this has been mentioned on the Forum but the British Library, in conjunction with an exhibit on Captain Cook, is hosting an evening devoted to Patrick O'Brian on July 16. Nikolai Tolstoy will give a talk about O'Brian, which will include an update on volume II of his biography.  I had the honor of being his first reader as he wrote each chapter and have read the completed revised draft.  It is fascinating and informative.  There is no publication date but I hope it will see print within the year.

>Geoff Hunt also will be speaking about his relationship with O'Brian and the work he did in producing the pictures for the dust jackets.

>And last and least, I will be the opening presenter, discussing the annotated bibliography of O'Brian's writings that I've been compiling these past many years.

>If any Forumites are in the London area next Monday, please come and stop by after the talk.  I'd love to meet folks in person.


Message 465fd89b8YV-10423-1297+07.htm, number 128549, was posted on Sun Jul 15 at 21:37:11
in reply to 47e54da900A-10423-1128-07.htm

Re: Well, we can't be having that!

akatow
trlygrl@gmail.com


I shall just have to dedicate one of my decks to coffee plants and grow my own - works for cannabis, right?  

No problem...

On Sun Jul 15, Hoyden wrote
---------------------------
>www.nbcnews.com/news/world/colombia-s-coffee-danger-these-scientists-are-fighting-save-it-n891221


Message aeda045700A-10424-641-07.htm, number 128550, was posted on Mon Jul 16 at 10:41:28
A new island — Big Island lava flow — what shall it be named?

Hoyden


www.cnn.com/2018/07/16/us/new-island-lava-hawaii-wxc-trnd/index.html

Message 470c4e7400A-10424-713-07.htm, number 128551, was posted on Mon Jul 16 at 11:53:15
The lowdown on the Seat of Ease

Karl Moeller


Here's a scholarly treatise on a maritime subject you've no doubt wondered about. Officers at the stern, sailors at the bow.

https://files.nc.gov/dncr-qar/documents/files/QAR-B-09-02.pdf


Message 591e316400A-10426-339+05.htm, number 128552, was posted on Wed Jul 18 at 05:39:01
in reply to 470c4e7400A-10424-713-07.htm

Re: The lowdown on the Seat of Ease

NiceRedTrousers


Thanks for the link

There is a pun, a vile clench, just perambulating the outskirts...
...Something, something, poop deck, something...


On Mon Jul 16, Karl Moeller wrote
---------------------------------
>Here's a scholarly treatise on a maritime subject you've no doubt wondered about. Officers at the stern, sailors at the bow.

>https://files.nc.gov/dncr-qar/documents/files/QAR-B-09-02.pdf
>


Message 6cadb064gpf-10426-1045-07.htm, number 128553, was posted on Wed Jul 18 at 17:24:52
On Jeopardy

Joe McWilliams
joemac27@hotmail.com


Our favourite doctor appeared as an answer on Jeopardy yesterday. Candidate Fenster saw a window of opportunity, seized it and got the right answer (question), helping him become the new champion. i.e. 'What is Master and Commander.' The category was doctors in literature, or some such.
It was worth a little jolt of pleasure, I have to admit.

Message cfef9b6600A-10428-525-07.htm, number 128554, was posted on Fri Jul 20 at 08:45:18
Discharged Dead: Airman Adrian Cronauer - “Good Morning Vietnam”

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/obituaries/adrian-cronauer-g


Being played by Robin Williams-priceless

Message 47e54da900A-10429-867-07.htm, number 128555, was posted on Sat Jul 21 at 14:26:36
Fascinating new information on leeches.

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/science/leeches-blood-anticoagulants.html?action=click&module=Discovery&pgtype=Homepage

Message aec008b100A-10431-812-07.htm, number 128556, was posted on Mon Jul 23 at 13:31:45
Poor Flora. Bears vs sheep.

Hoyden


www.nytimes.com/2018/07/23/world/europe/france-bears-pyrenees-ariege.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage

Message 50e5a913p13-10432-829-90.htm, number 128557, was posted on Tue Jul 24 at 13:49:26
Peterloo - film trailer

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


The first trailer for Peterloo, Mike Leigh’s dramatisation of the bloody 1819 “Peterloo massacre” in Manchester that resulted in 15 deaths, has been released on the internet.

The film arrives in the run-up to the 200th anniversary of this foundational event in modern British political history, which was the result of a cavalry detachment charging into a 60,000-strong crowd in Manchester’s St Peter’s Fields to hear speeches demanding parliamentary reform.

Although Viscount Sidmouth, home secretary of the Tory government of the time, responded with the repressive Six Acts, demands for reform continued and included the founding of the Manchester Guardian in 1821 as a reformist newspaper.

www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jul/24/mike-leigh-peterloo-first-trailer-for-the-drama-about-the-19th-century-massacre

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre


Message 50e5a913p13-10433-509-90.htm, number 128558, was posted on Wed Jul 25 at 08:29:37
British Library event

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


This was a double missed opportunity: we were shown neither the diaries nor Tolstoy’s (NT’s) volume 2. Instead, a packed lecture theatre by no means as elderly as I expected heard three speakers and had a very brief opportunity for questions at the end.

The diaries have been given to the BL by a kind donor -they will be on open access once Vol 2 is out.

First up was Terry Zobeck describing his bibliography, truly a labour of love. It includes many of the early books, which are both rare and obscure. This is a work for scholars and ‘completists’. He should now tackle the translations, which must be numerous.

Next came Nikolai Tolstoy (NT), an impressively fit and upright 83-year old. He rambled round POB’s early life (already described at length in Vol 1) but said nothing about Vol 2 except that it was complete and should be published next year.

Third up was Geoff Hunt, describing his modus operandi, the stages an image goes through etc. Sometimes an image needs to be reversed to fit a cover better, creating left-handed muskets and other oddities.

Then came a surprise: POB’s collected poems will be published in 2019 by Macmillan. One of them was solemnly read to us - and went straight over my head. I couldn’t find it on the Macmillan website. Another volume for completists only I think.

First question - from me - elicited the fact that the diaries will be available once the book is out but that they would not be interesting to the general reader. NT said Vol 2 would correct the inaccurate and unkind comments* made when Vol 1 was reviewed. I said I was surprised that they are being made public: NT didn’t respond.

On reflection I think the underlying problem was POB’S failure to appoint a literary executor to look after his papers. His main executors would have been told that it was their duty to maximise the cash value of the estate by selling the diaries to the highest bidders. They should have stayed with the manuscripts so that they can be studied together.

I think it likely that the diaries are interesting in parts and look forward to seeing for myself in 2019. They may, for example, contain unflattering comments on his fans, particularly the gushing ones - likely many English people he found them very tedious.

=========

* Unkind reviews:

‘All at sea - Nikolai Tolstoy's rambling apologia for his grisly novelist stepfather, Patrick O'Brian, is a failure, says Rachel Cooke . . ‘
www.theguardian.com/books/2004/nov/14/biography.features

Literature: Patrick O'Brian by by Nikolai Tolstoy
‘This book reads like an enormous footnote proving the truth of one of Philip Larkin’s most famous poems, showing that they do indeed f*** you up, your mum and dad (especially your dad) .. ‘
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/literature-patrick-obrian-by-by-nikolai-tolstoy-86q0nhbst3t

Remember him as a writer
John Lanchester reviews Patrick O'Brian: the Making of a Novelist by Nikolai Tolstoy and The Final Unfinished Voyage of Jack Aubrey by Patrick O'Brian. 09 Nov 2004
‘The last few years have been disheartening for Patrick O'Brian's many fans . . I suspect I probably speak for a good proportion of O'Brian's readers when I say that I wish I knew nothing at all about his life. It is only his family and friends who have a reason to care what he was like. He was a deeply troubled, profoundly isolated man who wrote great fiction about friendship; a bitter, difficult man, imprisoned by intense neuroses, who wrote wonderfully spacious, generous, funny, intelligent books.

Let's agree, we O'Brianists, to read the novels and forget everything else.’
www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3626812/Remember-him-as-a-writer.html

And so say all of us, I hope.

cjs.


Message 4465412b00A-10433-548+5a.htm, number 128559, was posted on Wed Jul 25 at 09:08:56
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10433-509-90.htm

Re: British Library event

A-Polly


Chrístõ, thanks so much for the report.

Poetry, hmm, that is a surprise. Will probably take a peek, when the opportunity presents, and then:

>Let's agree, we O'Brianists, to read the novels and forget everything else.’  


On Wed Jul 25, Chrístõ wrote
----------------------------
>This was a double missed opportunity: we were shown neither the diaries nor Tolstoy’s (NT’s) volume 2. Instead, a packed lecture theatre by no means as elderly as I expected heard three speakers and had a very brief opportunity for questions at the end.

>The diaries have been given to the BL by a kind donor -they will be on open access once Vol 2 is out.

>First up was Terry Zobeck describing his bibliography, truly a labour of love. It includes many of the early books, which are both rare and obscure. This is a work for scholars and ‘completists’. He should now tackle the translations, which must be numerous.

>Next came Nikolai Tolstoy (NT), an impressively fit and upright 83-year old. He rambled round POB’s early life (already described at length in Vol 1) but said nothing about Vol 2 except that it was complete and should be published next year.

>Third up was Geoff Hunt, describing his modus operandi, the stages an image goes through etc. Sometimes an image needs to be reversed to fit a cover better, creating left-handed muskets and other oddities.

>Then came a surprise: POB’s collected poems will be published in 2019 by Macmillan. One of them was solemnly read to us - and went straight over my head. I couldn’t find it on the Macmillan website. Another volume for completists only I think.

>First question - from me - elicited the fact that the diaries will be available once the book is out but that they would not be interesting to the general reader. NT said Vol 2 would correct the inaccurate and unkind comments* made when Vol 1 was reviewed. I said I was surprised that they are being made public: NT didn’t respond.

>On reflection I think the underlying problem was POB’S failure to appoint a literary executor to look after his papers. His main executors would have been told that it was their duty to maximise the cash value of the estate by selling the diaries to the highest bidders. They should have stayed with the manuscripts so that they can be studied together.

>I think it likely that the diaries are interesting in parts and look forward to seeing for myself in 2019. They may, for example, contain unflattering comments on his fans, particularly the gushing ones - likely many English people he found them very tedious.

>=========

>* Unkind reviews:

>‘All at sea - Nikolai Tolstoy's rambling apologia for his grisly novelist stepfather, Patrick O'Brian, is a failure, says Rachel Cooke . . ‘
>www.theguardian.com/books/2004/nov/14/biography.features

>Literature: Patrick O'Brian by by Nikolai Tolstoy
>‘This book reads like an enormous footnote proving the truth of one of Philip Larkin’s most famous poems, showing that they do indeed f*** you up, your mum and dad (especially your dad) .. ‘
>www.thetimes.co.uk/article/literature-patrick-obrian-by-by-nikolai-tolstoy-86q0nhbst3t

>Remember him as a writer
>John Lanchester reviews Patrick O'Brian: the Making of a Novelist by Nikolai Tolstoy and The Final Unfinished Voyage of Jack Aubrey by Patrick O'Brian. 09 Nov 2004
>‘The last few years have been disheartening for Patrick O'Brian's many fans . . I suspect I probably speak for a good proportion of O'Brian's readers when I say that I wish I knew nothing at all about his life. It is only his family and friends who have a reason to care what he was like. He was a deeply troubled, profoundly isolated man who wrote great fiction about friendship; a bitter, difficult man, imprisoned by intense neuroses, who wrote wonderfully spacious, generous, funny, intelligent books.

>Let's agree, we O'Brianists, to read the novels and forget everything else.’
>www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3626812/Remember-him-as-a-writer.html

>And so say all of us, I hope.

>cjs.
>


Message 50e5a913p13-10437-422-07.htm, number 128560, was posted on Sun Jul 29 at 07:02:28
'‘In maritime history who was the first Englishman to round Cape Horn?’ . .

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


. . Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199205684%2E013%2E2164 to find the answer to today's question.

Message 446488d7qHC-10437-849+56.htm, number 128561, was posted on Sun Jul 29 at 14:09:30
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10433-509-90.htm

Re: British Library event

Terry Zobeck
turtle15@cox.net


It was great meeting you in person, Christo.  I wish I had had more time to talk with the folks from the Forum and the Gunroom that stopped by to chat after the talk.

My bibliography covers all of O'Brian's work, including the novels, biographies, non-fiction, and short story collections; original publications in periodicals (e.g., short stories, poems, articles, essays, etc.); first appearances in books (i.e., short stories, essays, forewords/prefaces/introductions, etc.); translations; reprints; ephemera; interviews; unpublished; and unlocated.

He translated 32 books from the French (the Cunningham bibliography identifies only 31; Tolstoy found reference to the 32nd among O'Brian's papers.  It is a translation of a book on Easter Island that speculates that the island may have been populated by extra-terrestrials.  Hands down it is the worst book he translated in terms of subject matter.  I'm especially interested in the translations because they are true collaborative efforts between O'Brian and the original author.  The word choice and rhythm are O'Brian's as I demonstrated at my talk with the comparison of his translation of Papillon in the UK and the US edition translated by others.

The event was originally going to be a kick-off for the publication of volume 2 of the biography and to celebrate the donation of the diaries to the Library.  However, Nikolai has not yet secured a publisher for the book.  Nikolai was never told how long he had to speak which certainly contributed to his not being able to cover the later period of O'Brian's life.  I can assure you he covers it in great detail in volume 2; each of the A/M novels gets covered in detail.

Nikolai is understandably concerned about the negative and unflattering portrait of O'Brian that emerged following the news of his change of name and the Dean King biography.  As he notes in volume 1, the desire to set the record straight on the many inaccuracies that were introduced was the genesis for him writing the biography.

Two of the more damaging incidents that have persisted were his abandonment of his first wife and children, including the death of his daughter, and the cutting off of communication with his siblings.  The uproar over his changing his name and alleged claims of being of Irish heritage in retrospect is silly and of little consequence.

In volume 2, Nikolai addresses these head on, and while not making excuses for his treatment of his first wife and death of his daughter, he does set the record straight on what actually happened.  As for his supposed cutting off ties with his siblings, this just did not happen.  Nikolai has abundant evidence of visits and exchanges of letters.  Like any large families time and distance did not permit frequent interaction but he did not cut off all contact.

In fact, for the BL event, Nikolai was accompanied by Stephen Russ, Patrick's nephew, the son of Patrick's oldest brother Victor.  I met up with Stephen and Nikola prior to the event and had a chance to discuss this very issue with Stephen.  Nikolai discusses several letters between Victor and Patrick, and Patrick's reaction to learning of Victor's death.  Stephen told me that Patrick continued to write to his mother and send Christmas gifts after Victor's death.

Christo, did you get a copy of the program for the Library event?  It reproduced the poem that Anastasia, Nikolai's oldest daughter read.  It is called "The Wine-Dark Sea".

She and her cousin, Viktor Wynd, are now the co-executors of O'Brian's literary estate.  Before he died, O'Brian made arrangement for a company of solicitors to be his executors.  They were the ones who made the decision to publish 21.  As you note Christo, the mission of the executor is to maximize the profit for the estate. This is why 21 was published over the objections of the family. O'Brian's grandchildren--Nikolai's and his sister's children--are now the heirs of the estate.

Since the event I've been in touch with Viktor who told me that the family were told of the existence of the poems by the solicitors who finally settled up the various aspects of the will.  They had never mentioned having them before.  In the interview O'Brian did with the Paris Review he mentions that he has written a fair amount of poetry but that he can't locate them at the moment.  In the event the interview was accompanied by three poems, two that had been previously published and one new one "Old Men".

According to the inventory of the poems there are 105 entries.  But several of these are alternate versions of the same poem and many are fragmentary or unfinished.  In his lifetime 6 of the poems were published.  I've been able to verify that all 6 of these are among the poems recently discovered, in one form or another.

You asked a great question about the propriety of publishing O'Brian's diaries that Nikolai never actually addressed.  In his lifetime he talked about burning all his diaries and other papers (he kept a diary from 1968 through 1999; unfortunately the first and last volumes have gone missing).  But he also left behind a number of earlier journals, day diaries, etc.  During the production of my bibliography Nikolai has provided me with numerous quotes from these documents that relate to various aspects of specific works so that I can give background on how a piece came to be.

After O'Brian's death Nikolai provided some of these documents to O'Brian's agent who arranged for an assessment of whether they were publishable.  She concluded they were not, but Nikolai suspects she based this assessment not on the formal diaries but perhaps some of the earlier, less interesting journals.  From the excerpts I've seen of the diaries, I think an edited volume would be fascinating.

In any event, O'Brian had ample opportunity to destroy them or leave specific instruction in his will for their disposal.  He did not.  A few years before he died he sold his holographic manuscripts for most of his books along with his notes to the Lilly Library at Indiana University.  The O'Brian archive there also has correspondence from Richard Ollard, O'Brian's longtime editor at Collins and Richard Simon, his agent.  Presumably, O'Brian well understood the monetary and literary value of his papers (he said as much in his review of the Letters of Samuel Johnson).  While I suspect he would not have wanted these published in his lifetime he would not object to them being published after his death.

With respect to gushing praise, you are correct Christo, he was not impressed.


Message 56003e26cb5-10438-721+55.htm, number 128562, was posted on Mon Jul 30 at 12:00:43
in reply to 50e5a913p13-10433-509-90.htm

I was there too.

The Last of the True French Short Bastards
ewadams@designersnotebook.com


I was a trifle underwhelmed by the whole thing, but it was generally informative. Nikolai Tolstoy referred to several outright falsehoods in Dean King's biography (without ever naming it or King). Patrick and Mary were not, at any time, air-dropped into France for the SOE or any similar agency. They worked in London as ambulance drivers and for an organization that developed French-language propaganda broadcasts. It was secret, but not cloak-and-dagger secret.

I can't help wondering what Trinity College thinks about the fact that O'Brian passed himself off an an Irishman, leading to them housing him for the remainder of his life after Mary died, when in fact he wasn't Irish at all.

There were various funny anecdotes. The only one I can remember came from Geoff Hunt, who said that O'Brian sent him an extrmely lengthy description of a particular port, recommending it as a suitable subject for a cover. Hunt had to explain to him that he was obliged to paint the paperback covers at actual size, 5 inches by 7, as well as leave enough room for the title somewhere on it. There was no way that he could possibly paint everything that O'Brian described.

Hunt didn't talk about his research process as much as I could wish. He did say that he didn't just want to paint "portraits of ships," and that's why (unlike a lot of maritime art) his paintings are often from unusual angles.

The organizer seemed to be extremely anxious that we finish on time, cutting speakers short. Perhaps the room was rented or the cleaners had to be accommodated. Anyway, it was 90 minutes long and could easily have been two hours or more.


Message 4747f4808HW-10438-1023+55.htm, number 128563, was posted on Mon Jul 30 at 17:03:40
in reply to 56003e26cb5-10438-721+55.htm

Hold on a second....

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


Ernest, did I misunderstand you?  Geoff Hunt says that he had to create a 5"x7" painting for the 5"x7" cover of the book?  I'm a little incredulous; I think I always assumed he would paint something sized to incorporate details, and a copy would be reduced and cropped suitably to fit a cover.  I can't imagine what real-life constraints would exist to prevent that sensible plan.  Did I really understand you correctly?  What am I missing?

On Mon Jul 30, The Last of the True French Short Bastards wrote
---------------------------------------------------------------
>I was a trifle underwhelmed by the whole thing, but it was generally informative. Nikolai Tolstoy referred to several outright falsehoods in Dean King's biography (without ever naming it or King). Patrick and Mary were not, at any time, air-dropped into France for the SOE or any similar agency. They worked in London as ambulance drivers and for an organization that developed French-language propaganda broadcasts. It was secret, but not cloak-and-dagger secret.

>I can't help wondering what Trinity College thinks about the fact that O'Brian passed himself off an an Irishman, leading to them housing him for the remainder of his life after Mary died, when in fact he wasn't Irish at all.

>There were various funny anecdotes. The only one I can remember came from Geoff Hunt, who said that O'Brian sent him an extrmely lengthy description of a particular port, recommending it as a suitable subject for a cover. Hunt had to explain to him that he was obliged to paint the paperback covers at actual size, 5 inches by 7, as well as leave enough room for the title somewhere on it. There was no way that he could possibly paint everything that O'Brian described.

>Hunt didn't talk about his research process as much as I could wish. He did say that he didn't just want to paint "portraits of ships," and that's why (unlike a lot of maritime art) his paintings are often from unusual angles.

>The organizer seemed to be extremely anxious that we finish on time, cutting speakers short. Perhaps the room was rented or the cleaners had to be accommodated. Anyway, it was 90 minutes long and could easily have been two hours or more.


Message 47e54da900A-10439-403-07.htm, number 128564, was posted on Tue Jul 31 at 06:43:08
Celebrate “Black Tot” day.

Hoyden


www.thedailybeast.com/how-the-rum-soaked-royal-navy-sobered-up?ref=home

A 2016 article, so today is the 48th anniversary.


Message 50e5a913p13-10440-834-07.htm, number 128565, was posted on Wed Aug 1 at 13:54:33
"Of which island in the Pacific Ocean is rongorongo an ancient script?"

Chrístõ
chris@cjsquire.plus.com


Visit: www.oxfordreference.com/viewbydoi/10%2E1093/acref/9780199534043%2E013%2E3596 to find the answer . .

Message 6c14964300A-10443-608+50.htm, number 128565, was posted on Sat Aug 4 at 10:08:21
in reply to 4747f4808HW-10438-1023+55.htm

Re: Hold on a second....

Don Seltzer


On Mon Jul 30, Bob Bridges wrote
--------------------------------
>Ernest, did I misunderstand you?  Geoff Hunt says that he had to create a 5"x7" painting for the 5"x7" cover of the book?  I'm a little incredulous; I think I always assumed he would paint something sized to incorporate details, and a copy would be reduced and cropped suitably to fit a cover.  I can't imagine what real-life constraints would exist to prevent that sensible plan.  Did I really understand you correctly?  

A slight misunderstanding of the process.  Geoff Hunt would start with a few black and white thumbnail sketches of several ideas. From these he chose one or two to make a more detailed color sketch the size of a paperback book.  This would be sent off to the publisher and POB for approval.  He then painted the final oil version, typically about 13” x 19”.

The first cover paintings were all portrait mode, but in later books he switched to landscape mode for those books with wrap around cover scenes.



Message 4747f4808HW-10443-805+50.htm, number 128566, was posted on Sat Aug 4 at 13:25:30
in reply to 6c14964300A-10443-608+50.htm

Ah, that makes sense. Thank you. [nt]

Bob Bridges
robhbridges@gmail.com


On Sat Aug 4, Don Seltzer wrote
-------------------------------
>A slight misunderstanding of the process.  Geoff Hunt would start with a few black and white thumbnail sketches of several ideas. From these he chose one or two to make a more detailed color sketch the size of a paperback book.  This would be sent off to the publisher and POB for approval.  He then painted the final oil version, typically about 13” x 19”.

>The first cover paintings were all portrait mode, but in later books he switched to landscape mode for those books with wrap around cover scenes.

>On Mon Jul 30, Bob Bridges wrote
>--------------------------------
>>Ernest, did I misunderstand you?  Geoff Hunt says that he had to create a 5"x7" painting for the 5"x7" cover of the book?  I'm a little incredulous; I think I always assumed he would paint something sized to incorporate details, and a copy would be reduced and cropped suitably to fit a cover.  I can't imagine what real-life constraints would exist to prevent that sensible plan.  Did I really understand you correctly?  


Message 47e54da900A-10452-428-07.htm, number 128567, was posted on Mon Aug 13 at 07:07:55
“They be pirates” the rise of piracy off Venezuela

Hoyden


www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/pirates-return-to-the-caribbean/?utm_term=.7349f3fdcb44