Message c7b71f1b00A-2937-500-30.htm, number 56, was posted on Wed Jan 14 at 08:20:44
in reply to 9925aa3500A-2925-980-30.htm
Re^3: is POB still alive

Guest

Just in case there is any confusion caused by the title of this thread, Patrick O'Brian is very much alive.

Message a3fc16c5UQo-2938-773-30.htm, number 57, was posted on Thu Jan 15 at 12:54:49
in reply to c685161400A-2924-1053-30.htm
Re^2: The almost duel

Karen Winstedt
karen_winstedt@sra.com

Steven and Jack were such good friends it was mere accident that they ever got close to a duel. It was resolved in a most believable way, given their characters, and there was never any reason to mention it again.

Message c685161600A-2938-1332-30.htm, number 58, was posted on Thu Jan 15 at 22:13:54
Did Diana Sleep with Jack?

Maxiney

I have a running battle with my husband about whether Jack Aubrey ever consumated his relationship with Diana when they first met. POB "doesn't tell," but I am convinced Diana had sex with Jack. Jack is rather shallow, but my position is that he would not have hung around Diana if he had been rebuffed. And Diana isn't the most discriminating when it comes to men. She likes to toy with men, and sex doesn't mean much to her.

Message c7ae8714yJ9-2938-1399-30.htm, number 59, was posted on Thu Jan 15 at 23:18:41
in reply to c685161600A-2938-1332-30.htm
Re: Did Diana Sleep with Jack?

Nick Pengelley
nicp@lib.monash.edu.au

Dear Maxiney,
I agree with you - its quite obvious that Jack slept with Diana - but a gentlemen would never tell!

Nick Pengelley

Message c7ae8714yJ9-2938-1399-30.htm, number 59, was edited on Thu Jan 15 at 23:19:26
Re: Did Diana Sleep with Jack?

Nick Pengelley
nicp@lib.monash.edu.au

Dear Maxiney,
I agree with you - its quite obvious that Jack slept with Diana - but a gentleman would never tell!

Nick Pengelley

Message cc61ae2dtjp-2939-764-30.htm, number 60, was posted on Fri Jan 16 at 12:44:08
read series in order?

David J. Bissett
bissett@capital.net

I know the series is intended to be read in order, but if one of the books is not at hand, is there a danger is skipping over one? Is much missed, forinstance, in going from #2 to #4 while I await the arrival of HMS SURPRISE? Comments of experienced readers most welcome.
Please email direct if possible: bissett@captial.net

Message c6f818fc00A-2939-1331-30.htm, number 61, was posted on Fri Jan 16 at 22:10:52
next book

laura

When is the next book coming out? It is time for Jack to hoist his flag.

Message c6f818fc00A-2939-1342-30.htm, number 62, was posted on Fri Jan 16 at 22:22:16
in reply to 98a3c98800A-2919-650-30.htm
Re: POB - recipes

laura

I tried the land version of plum duff, which was, as Grossman and Thomas said, very much like raisin bread. The whole family liked it. The plum cake followed, a very large, handsome cake. Unfortunately it was very dry and crumbly. If I try it again I will use five cups of flour instead of the six called for in the recipe.

Message 99230ed59VM-2940-975-30.htm, number 63, was posted on Sat Jan 17 at 16:15:52
in reply to cc61ae2dtjp-2939-764-30.htm
Re: read series in order?

David K. Hughes
dkhughes@earthlink.net

It is a wonderful experience to read the series in order. I actually waited 10 days for my order of "Treason's Harbour" to arrive. However, my wife had difficulty getting started through "Master and Commander", so I recommended she read the two novels "The Reverse of the Medal" and "The Letter of Marque" in sequence. These two form a superb pair within the series. She is now fondly attached to Jack and Stephen, and has successfully completed the first in the series.

Tastes differ but, if you are devoted to Mr. O'Brian's work, reading in order is recommended. Just be sure to take your time: it is amazing how quickly one catches up to the end!

David

Message c6aa291100A-2941-109-30.htm, number 64, was posted on Sun Jan 18 at 01:49:23
in reply to c685161600A-2938-1332-30.htm
Re: Did Diana Sleep with Jack?

fritz barnett

no, jack never slept with diana, his libido would never permit such an indulgence.

Message 82c2b1e0yJ9-2942-103-30.htm, number 65, was posted on Mon Jan 19 at 01:43:43
in reply to c6f818fc00A-2939-1342-30.htm
Re^2: POB - recipes

Nick Pengelley
nicp@lib.monash.edu.au

We tried the recipe for mince pies - they worked out magnificently -
although the quantity we ended up with far exceeded the "four
small pies" which are indicated by the recipe. But we're not complaining!

Also just tried "Admiral's Flip" - two or three of these are a knockout!

Nick Pengelley

Message 836501c8td4-2942-494-30.htm, number 66, was posted on Mon Jan 19 at 08:14:10
Books #19 and #20

Sean Adam
seanadam@icd.teradyne.com

Does anyone know what might be in the future for our two heros.

Book 19 will deal with Napoleon's escape and re-capture; however,
what about #20.

Do we think that O'Brian will try to drag out Napoleon's 100 days
over 2 books.

What are the chances the O'Brian will finish Napoleon with Book
#19 and move onto some post 1815 event with book #20. Didn't
Pellew destroy a Turkish fleet in 1816 or so.

Any ideas?

Sean

Message cfb3908600A-2942-1013-30.htm, number 67, was posted on Mon Jan 19 at 16:53:23
in reply to 836501c8td4-2942-494-30.htm
Re: Books #19 and #20

Graeme Scott

I hope he decides not to try fit two books into "the hundred days".
The series from "Thirteen Gun Salute" to "Wine Dark Sea" seemed to drag a little for me.I seem to remember something POB said in a foreword to an early book about having to use "1814a,1814b" etc.I think that in the eight books leading up to "The Yellow Admiral" POB
must have gotten up to "1814H"! It always seemed somewhat unrealistic
to me to have Maturin leaving a pregnant Diana in 1812 or 1813 and returning in 1814 after a voyage around the world to a daughter who
appears to be 4 or 5 at least.
As to your question about a battle against the Turks i believe you
may be thinking of Sir Edward Codringham's action at Navarino in 1827.
Maybe Jack as a flag officer afloat again after a long period on halfpay and serving as his second in command? Maturin could be along as a diplomatic advisor and maybe even George as his father's Flag Lieutenant.

Message cfb3908600A-2942-1023-30.htm, number 68, was posted on Mon Jan 19 at 17:03:44
in reply to cfb3908600A-2942-1013-30.htm
Re^2: Books #19 and #20

Graeme Scott

Oops! Just checked my Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea, Pellew (Sir Edward not Sir Israel) did bombard Algiers over the issue of Christian Slaves in August of 1816.He was created Lord Exmouth for his
services in the Med.I seem to remember Hornblower serving under Pellew so why not Aubrey?

Message cb243424xxK-2943-407-30.htm, number 69, was posted on Tue Jan 20 at 06:47:59
in reply to a39612eatJ3-2931-1316-30.htm
Re^5: The Last Two Books

Bill Dalley
wildal@wollongong.starway.net.au

I first discovered this series just as Post Captain was published in Australia, many, many years ago. Since then publication in Australia has been very erratic with long delays between some volumes and others appearing almost simultaneously. (Much better in more recent years). We follow the English titles so The Truelove for us was "Clarissa Oakes".
I have two questions: The first is, does O'Brien get his ships mixed up in the Commodore when Maturin is reporting what happened in the South Seas to the Admiralty committee - he describes the chase of the Yankee ships as being conducted by Nutmeg when it was Surprise that did the chasing.
Secondly - why doesn't Maturin tie Aubrey to a buoy out at sea to prevent him coming ashore - Aubrey in England is a disaster waiting to happen - why do his friends allow him to land? He would be much safer at sea!! Is he ever going to make Rear Admiral???

Message c7b71f0500A-2943-591-30.htm, number 70, was posted on Tue Jan 20 at 09:51:16
in reply to c6f818fc00A-2939-1331-30.htm
Re: next book

Kirsten

You can find out about the next book in the Aubrey/Matruin series by checking out the POB FAQ:

www.wwnorton.com/POB/pobfaq.htm

Message c7b71f1b00A-2943-815-30.htm, number 71, was posted on Tue Jan 20 at 13:35:25
in reply to 82c2b1e0yJ9-2942-103-30.htm
Re^3: POB - recipes

Michael Adams

And you lived to tell the tale. Must be good.

Message cf35a3cdrqf-2943-1120-30.htm, number 72, was posted on Tue Jan 20 at 18:40:29
in reply to a3fc16c5UQo-2938-773-30.htm
Re^3: The almost duel

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

Fights among men, when they do not become violent, most certainly do not resolve themselves in teary-eyed apologies, mutual approbation or long-drawn discussions of (ugh!) feelings. The duel simply lost significance, paling to nothingness against the fellow-feeling of the battle, Maturin's duty to Aubrey as physician and shipmate, and the to-be-expected relief resulting from getting back to action after a long and tedious time ashore. The latter probably accounts for the peevishness of both men as much as anything. Recall the first time the characters nearly duelled?

Message cf35a3d7rqf-2943-1142-30.htm, number 73, was posted on Tue Jan 20 at 19:04:25
in reply to cc61ae2dtjp-2939-764-30.htm
Re: read series in order?

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

My view is that you lose the string of familiar references if the books are taken out order. I read the novels in strict order and delighted much in the character development and shared experiences later mentioned by each character. It's not unlike a relationship with a close friend - could you get as much out of the familiar joke, the painful allusion, or the advert to some common friend if you could skip about in time? The plots of these books, like life, take unexpected twists and turns. Reading them out of order would reveal the outcome of earlier events and take away the almost cloying anticipation of how something will turn out. Too much of that is gone for later readers of the series, simply knowing that another volume follows! Finally, the series conveys to us today a sense and measure of time and time's passage unique to that era and almost lost to us today. This matter best exemplified - most particularly and comically - through the contrast of Aubrey and Maturin's perception and management of time. Taking the books out of order would definitely lose that aspect! How ironic that this point would be made in this particular medium... Enjoy! but SAVOR.

Message d188a89e00A-2944-1109-30.htm, number 74, was posted on Wed Jan 21 at 18:29:09
NSI

Steven

Does anyone have old copies of the POB series? Would like to donate
a complete set of the POB works to our high school library.

Message 98a3d5f8JMo-2944-1156-30.htm, number 75, was posted on Wed Jan 21 at 19:16:41
in reply to 888d02bH1G-2925-856-30.htm
Re: Bruce Alexander and Patrick O'Brian

Susan Wenger
wwenger101@aol.com

Bruce Alexander is not Patrick O'Brian. Alexander is a pseudonym for Bruce Cook. - Susan Wenger wwenger101@aol.com

Message 98a3cc1400A-2946-855-30.htm, number 76, was posted on Fri Jan 23 at 14:15:46
in reply to c685161600A-2938-1332-30.htm
Re: Did Diana Sleep with Jack?

L. O'Donoghue

Diana seemed pretty informed about Jack's amorous practices when she was explaining to Stephen (in bed yet!) (God bless Stephen) that Jack fails to inflame poor Sophie, who certainly wouldn't tell, nor would she know better, after all. Fortunately for Sophie and for Jack she had Diana and Clarissa to straighten her out.

For years we have been hearing about how Sophie lacks the ardent nature a man of Jack's temperment needs. Ha!

Message a05ec6ab00A-2947-818-30.htm, number 77, was posted on Sat Jan 24 at 13:38:13
Tell us it is a vile lie!

Danicic

A friend at the boat show reported the death of Patrick O'Brian. We see no news of it here or abroad. The thought is disturbing to say the least. If anyone can confirm that he is indeed alive, and working on the latest in the series, please do so!

Our most noble appreciation,

John and Paul Danicic

Message 20649e6400A-2948-709-30.htm, number 78, was posted on Sun Jan 25 at 11:49:29
in reply to a05ec6ab00A-2947-818-30.htm
Re: Tell us it is a vile lie!

Michael Adams

I see no obiturary in the Times (London, not the other place), so I doubt it is true.

Message 80870d22C8y-2949-674-30.htm, number 79, was posted on Mon Jan 26 at 11:14:40
How tall is Mrs. Maturin?

Michael J. O'Donnell
odonnell@cs.uchicago.edu

Diana Villiers is taller than Mrs. Wogan, but shorter than Sophie. How tall is she?



Mike O'Donnell

Message 9925f51300A-2949-1418-30.htm, number 80, was posted on Mon Jan 26 at 23:38:22
Maturin the killer

cws

In "Fortune of War," we see Stephen deliberately kill for the first time. (This does not count the duel with Canning.) POB is very deliberate about this: Stephen doesn't just knock the Frenchman on the head, but bends over and cuts his throat. POB shows us, really for the first time, what Stephen is made of. Anyone agree?

Message 9925f51300A-2949-1422-30.htm, number 81, was posted on Mon Jan 26 at 23:41:49
in reply to cf35a3cdrqf-2943-1120-30.htm
Re^4: The almost duel

cws

Just finished "Fortune of War." Good God, do you mean they almost duel again?! The first time over that stupib woman was bad enough!

Message 9925f51300A-2949-1431-30.htm, number 82, was posted on Mon Jan 26 at 23:50:59
This site...

cws

I would like to thank all those who have made this website the most intellegent thing I have ever seen on the Internet.
Humbly, Chris Shelley.

Message ccd6615700A-2951-814-30.htm, number 83, was posted on Wed Jan 28 at 13:34:33
in reply to cf35a3cdrqf-2943-1120-30.htm
Re^4: The almost duel

hayes

Regarding the "almost duel" (I assume from Post-Captain, as I missed the beginning of this discussion) and the apparent failure to follow up, I refer you to page 475 of Post-Captain:

"Now listen Jack, will you? I am somewhat given to lying: my occasions require it from time to time. But I do not choose to have any man alive tell me of it."
"Oh no, no, no", cried Jack. "I should never dream of doing such a thing. Not," he added, recollecting himself and blushing, "not when I am in my right mind. Quite apart from my love for you, it is far, far too dangerous..."

Seems a pretty clear reference to their near duel earlier in the book. Additionally, the cutting out of the Fanciulla (which interrupted the arranged duel) was certainly one of those actions to which Jack often refers, of a type "that clears the mind amazingly"...

Message cc894289tsf-2951-1217-30.htm, number 84, was posted on Wed Jan 28 at 20:17:30
Pronunciation in the Dutch language.

Bob Olmsted
rolmsted@lps.org

Would someone please tell me how to pronounce "Waakzaamheid", the Dutch 74 from "Desolation Island"?

Thanks!

Message c6f818fctW1-2952-683-30.htm, number 85, was posted on Thu Jan 29 at 11:23:35
in reply to cfb3909400A-2930-1259-30.htm
Re^4: Bruce Alexander and Patrick O'Brian

Laura Noble
laura@shadow.org

Even if Susan Wenger had not kindly identified Bruce Alexander, it is clear that he could never be POB. He makes too many mistakes about the Navy and about eighteenth century life and manners.

Message a39612dd00A-2952-1436-30.htm, number 86, was posted on Thu Jan 29 at 23:56:35
Steven Maturin:unpaid and frustrated

Dave Walters, dave_walters@eee.org

How curious that Steven refuses to become beholden to his majesty's
government for his services. He has seen the money corrupt too many
agents. Yet, he carries notes and cash to Peru, the south seas and
condones its use for the purposes of his majesty's govt. How long before the money is tied to him? As a noted scholar and naturalist in England and the continent, he has a credible ruse to hide behind, but how long will he hide from the money he uses? Like deep throat, just follow the money...
In regard to other matters, POB has helped me to put Charles Darwin into perspective. For some reason I have always isolated him in 1848. At the very most the decade surrounding his famous treatise. But we know that no man or event stands out away from his own time. It is probably not possible for any man to amass enough data to put forward a theory as complete and radical as Darwin's theory. The only reasonable answer to the problem of "critical mass" data is for hundreds of explorers to have been gathering data and presenting it to the academies and philosophs in the preceeding century. Moreover, the Enlightenment thinkers would have demanded nothing less than to apply reason to natural history as Gibbon as opened the door to history and Smith the economics.
Huzzay! for POB in his not so subtile hints that great men, like Newton stand on the shoulders of giants!

Message c0c1c33100A-2953-965-30.htm, number 87, was posted on Fri Jan 30 at 16:05:07
in reply to 9925f51300A-2949-1418-30.htm
Re: Maturin the killer

L. O'Donoghue

Actually, I think the reptilian glare appeared much earlier (and I would not discount the Canning affair - which, after all, Stephen very coldly and consciously provoked). The quote from Post Captain in reply 4 of the "Duel" exchange above is good, and I think back to Stephen's conversations in the first book with James Dillon about the difference between the English and Irish when it comes to meetings of that sort. English: sentimental and too willing to overlook an offence; Irish: surprizing anyone made it alive from university.

Message cf35a3d2rmx-2953-1163-30.htm, number 88, was posted on Fri Jan 30 at 19:24:08
in reply to a39612dd00A-2952-1436-30.htm
Re: Steven Maturin:unpaid and frustrated

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining

I couldn't agree with you more about historical context or 'standing on the shoulders of great men' (forgive immaterial inaccuracies in the quote). I doubt I could agree with you less about the use of money, however... .

Maturin is not tied to the money. The descriptions of it tell us its character ... bearer notes drawn on the Bank of England, cash, precious metals of various countries' coinage. The methods of delivery are always discreet - I don't want to reveal too much to those who have not sailed to the more remote portions of the saga, but recall how Maturin finds his way to the money cached (pun intended) on the packet ship under American control?

The use of money as an intelligence tool cannot be underestimated. Look at the scandals of the last several years. Even Israeli/U.S. relationships (much less the old Soviet/U.S. bugaboo)have been strained over the use of money in espionage. And how much more humane for a doctor (see the comments about how cold-blooded Maturin can be further down in the string) to use simple filthy lucre instead of physical means. No, I have no problem with the money angle; if anything, it is fascinating to see how they transferred it in those days of uncertain travel and unsure negotiations!

Message a39612f400A-2954-1264-30.htm, number 89, was posted on Sat Jan 31 at 21:04:38
in reply to cf35a3d2rmx-2953-1163-30.htm
Re^2: Steven Maturin:unpaid and frustrated

Dave Walters, Dave Walters, Dave Walters

It is possible my intent was not clearly stated. I'm not concerned with Maturin's emphasis on money. His personnel case is well stated by POB. My concern is the use of money in his activities and how it will lead a trail to him. Remember how several of his French counterparts have been wrapped up or beholden to others due to gambling losses, the want for more, and etc. How long before he is captured and imprisoned, convicted, and hanged (?) for his clandestine activities. Thus far he is able to aviod detection due to his reputation as a naturalist and surgeon. Even his trips to Paris to present papers are well received (in spite of his poor speaking abilities). But how long? The last time he murdered a man was because he knew who or rather what Steven Maturin was and the havoc he had been able to cause to the French intelligence system.

Message a39612f4rYf-2954-1274-30.htm, number 90, was posted on Sat Jan 31 at 21:13:47
POB reader profile

Dave Walters
dave_walters@eee.org

People look at me like some kind of freak when I explain that I am reading an 18 book novel series with an open map on the table, an elecronic dictionary, and have purchased a lexicon to which I frequently refer. I am lover of Danielle Steel or like authors and having spent the last 12+ years reading primarily 1,000 page non-fiction history. A recent conversation led me to wonder, what type of person reads POB? Aside from people who love square rigged ships. Who are we? Education? Vocation? Etcettera

Message cf35a3cerqf-2957-681-30.htm, number 91, was posted on Tue Feb 3 at 11:21:15
in reply to ccd6615700A-2951-814-30.htm
Re^5: The almost duel

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

To borrow a phrase from Jack: I hadn't smoked it. Well done, Hayes! And thanks on behalf of us all who missed the "tie" on that particular loose end - in our consciousness, at least. The context and brevity of the reference leads me, in my defense, to stand by my comments about fights among men - not that it's better, only different.

Message cf35a3cerqf-2957-683-30.htm, number 92, was posted on Tue Feb 3 at 11:23:20
in reply to 9925f51300A-2949-1422-30.htm
Re^5: The almost duel

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

Maybe I'm being too cute here by half - but there was another time when the pair were on the verge of a duel. Anyone 'smoke' it?

Message cf35a3d6rqf-2957-693-30.htm, number 93, was posted on Tue Feb 3 at 11:33:35
in reply to a39612f400A-2954-1264-30.htm
Re^3: Steven Maturin:unpaid and frustrated

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

Perhaps I, a simple dolt who does not understand how such a fate may befall our Stephen in days prior to thorough recordkeeping and extensive networks of communications, require more explanation. Cherchez la femme ou cherchez l'argent? I would think in that day - especially in France - his attention-getting bride would (and did) attract far more notice, especially by contrast in the mismatch of pulchritude. She would excite far more comment, especially among the men, than any gambling debt or use of government funds untraceable to Stephen. Paint us a picture, please, of how the money may be followed to the point that Stephen would be taken up due to it alone.

Message cf35a3d6rqf-2957-696-30.htm, number 94, was posted on Tue Feb 3 at 11:35:51
Stephen's Chess Blunders

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

One of the more fascinating aspects of Stephen's character is revealed in his chess blunders. He seems to overstep his capabilities. It seems part of his nature. Anyone have any thoughts on this point.

Message a65d393dt6z-2957-885-30.htm, number 95, was posted on Tue Feb 3 at 14:46:42
The cricket match

Bill Hollander
highprec@netone.com

I hope that someone out there can enlighten me regarding the outcome of the cricket match at the end of chapter 1 in The Fortune of War. I know nothing at all about cricket, but it seems that Stephen takes his turn at bat (baseball terms borrowed here) to the overconfident amusement of the Cumberlands. They must see him as an easy mark, slightly disheveled, etc. The Leopards, I assume, are feeling proprietary, protective, hopeful and curious about Stephen's debut on the field. So what happens? The impression I get is that Stephen's performance, based on his earlier experiences "from Malin Head to Skibereen", is extraordinary and outstanding, vindicating the Leopards.
Can anybody either verify or clarify this view? I am awash in a sea of bewilderment.

Message 820b38b8JMo-2957-965-30.htm, number 96, was posted on Tue Feb 3 at 16:05:02
in reply to cf35a3d6rqf-2957-696-30.htm
Re: Stephen's Chess Blunders

Susan Wenger
wwenger101@aol.com

Are you speaking as a chess expert, or as an interested reader? Were there some specific moves that had significance to the more sophisticated player? Perhaps Stephen, known to us readers as a deep file, blunders on purpose as an automatic part of his cover, the way he never fails to fall down when boarding a ship, except when it is necessary to board smoothly?
- Susan Wenger wwenger101@aol.com

Message c7b71f06SEc-2960-1091-07.htm, number 97, was posted on Fri Feb 6 at 18:11:30
Server Upgrade in Progress

Kirsten Miller
kmiller@wwnorton.com

Sorry if you were not able to access this discussion forum temporarily; we are in the process of upgrading our webserver and our forum software is being reconfigured.

We hope to resume normal service very soon.

Thanks for your patience!

Message 9df51417Nr4-2960-1143-07.htm, number 98, was posted on Fri Feb 6 at 19:02:59
in reply to cc894289tsf-2951-1217-30.htm
Re: Pronunciation in the Dutch language.

Karen Black
karen@plamondon.com

On Wed Jan 28, Bob Olmsted wrote:
---------------------------------
>Would someone please tell me how to pronounce "Waakzaamheid", the Dutch 74 from "Desolation Island"?

I believe it should be pronounced "Vahk-zahm-hite", with accent
on the first syllable.

Karen Black
Blodgett, OR

Message 20649e7900A-2961-581-07.htm, number 99, was posted on Sat Feb 7 at 09:41:02
in reply to c7b71f06SEc-2960-1091-07.htm
Re: Server Upgrade in Progress

michael adams

Keep up the good work!

Message 98a3ce5900A-2962-848-07.htm, number 100, was posted on Sun Feb 8 at 14:08:43
in reply to c685161600A-2938-1332-30.htm
Re: Did Diana Sleep with Jack?

Jonathan

On Thu Jan 15, Maxiney wrote:
-----------------------------
>I have a running battle with my husband about whether Jack Aubrey ever consumated his relationship with Diana when they first met. POB "doesn't tell," but I am convinced Diana had sex with Jack. Jack is rather shallow, but my position is that he would not have hung around Diana if he had been rebuffed. And Diana isn't the most discriminating when it comes to men. She likes to toy with men, and sex doesn't mean much to her.


Diana is quite definite about Jack's failings as a lover in Yellow Admiral ("never mind maneouvres and always go straight at'em".) Either she learnt this directly, or Sophie actually discussed her husband's performance with another woman, one she's never quite trusted. Given Sophie's delicacy and Diana's "man-like" attitude to sex, I think that a direct physical encounter is a thousand times more likely.

Jonathan

Message cf35a3d3rqf-2963-687-07.htm, number 101, was posted on Mon Feb 9 at 11:31:44
in reply to 820b38b8JMo-2957-965-30.htm
Re^2: Stephen's Chess Blunders

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

Must I choose between chess expert and interested reader? The latter I embrace enthusiastically; the former I am constrained by humility to disown. Neither of the two matches memorable to me (Fortune of War p. 135 and Thirteen Gun Salute p. 127 - did I miss any?) were detailed enough to comment upon specific moves. An intentional 'falling into the sea' seems to have no purpose in either context. Deep old file that he is, could Stephen have an incapacity for this type of manipulation? Playing over his head may be a habit - look at his queen.

Message cef64465usf-2963-950-30.htm, number 102, was posted on Mon Feb 9 at 15:53:20
wooden boats and stained glass

Mark Maloney
mmaloney@pen.k12.va.us

Is anyone out there interested in either: a) a stained glass lightbox depicting a scene from a POB novel or b) a sailable replica of one of the small boats used in the Aubrey/Maturin series? (sorry, frigates and ships-of-the-line are beyond my boatbuilding abilities). If you are, or would like to discuss the possibilities, please contact me by email (mmaloney@pen.k12.va.us) or by mail at PO Box 311, Hague VA 22469.

Message cef64465usf-2963-963-07.htm, number 103, was posted on Mon Feb 9 at 16:03:18
in reply to cc61ae2dtjp-2939-764-30.htm
Re: read series in order?

Mark Maloney
mmaloney@pen.k12.va.us

On Fri Jan 16, David J. Bissett wrote:
--------------------------------------
>I know the series is intended to be read in order, but if one of the books is not at hand, is there a danger is skipping over one? Is much missed, forinstance, in going from #2 to #4 while I await the arrival of HMS SURPRISE? Comments of experienced readers most welcome.
>I hope this message isn't getting to you too late, but this topic is one of much disagreement. I read the first seven in order, and have jumped around since. Actually, I started out listening to O'Brien on tape, and way out of order (Mauritius Command, 13 Gun Salute), then went to the books. Do you miss much jumping around? A little, but don't fret. You can always go back and reread or listen on tape. Enjoy, matey! Please email direct if possible: bissett@captial.net

Message 820b38b8PjK-2963-974-07.htm, number 104, was posted on Mon Feb 9 at 16:14:29
in reply to cf35a3d3rqf-2963-687-07.htm
Re^3: Stephen's Chess Blunders

Susan Wenger
wwenger101@aol.com

On Mon Feb 9, Nathaniel Adams wrote:
------------------------------------
>Must I choose between chess expert and interested reader? The latter I embrace enthusiastically; the former I am constrained by humility to disown. Neither of the two matches memorable to me (Fortune of War p. 135 and Thirteen Gun Salute p. 127 - did I miss any?) were detailed enough to comment upon specific moves. An intentional 'falling into the sea' seems to have no purpose in either context. Deep old file that he is, could Stephen have an incapacity for this type of manipulation? Playing over his head may be a habit - look at his queen.

Shall we now compare the characters to chess pieces? I'd say Sophie is the queen. Jack is the king at sea, but perhaps a rook on land? Rev. Martin can be the bishop; Stephen is the white knight to Diana, perhaps a quirky horse in his other endeavors? What would Diana be, for all love? Are the newly-pressed grass-combing landlubbers the pawns? Your thoughts?

Message c7b71f1500A-2964-602-30.htm, number 105, was posted on Tue Feb 10 at 10:02:06
testing!

Guest

This is a test message.

Message cf35a3d8rqf-2964-670-07.htm, number 106, was posted on Tue Feb 10 at 11:10:34
in reply to 820b38b8PjK-2963-974-07.htm
Re^4: Stephen's Chess Blunders

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

On Mon Feb 9, Susan Wenger wrote:
---------------------------------
A fruitful comparison, sure; I have but one suggestion; could we not place Jack and Stephen in equal, but highly valuable positions as rooks? It seems to fit Jack for the reason you suggested, and suits Stephen for his love of birds! As for Diana, make her the opponent's Queen, since she roams about with the French and Americans. Now, as to Stephen's one identifiable intellectual flaw... ?

Message cf35a3d8rqf-2964-1015-07.htm, number 107, was posted on Tue Feb 10 at 16:55:07
in reply to cf35a3d8rqf-2964-670-07.htm
Re^5: Stephen's Chess Blunders

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

The following was sent to my e-mail box by Ms. Wenger, and is too good not to post to the forum. Reprinted is her response to whether Stephen is absent minded or just keeping his cover:

I think he's lost in thought, a role that comes naturally to him and he
deliberately reinforces it, as it don't rightly pay him to attend too much,
because falling into the sea is perfect cover for him. When he was seen
taking Polaroids of the naval installation early on (was it Post Captain?),
even his best friend laughed heartily at the notion that Stephen could be
anything but a bumbling nature boy. Heartily enough that it served,
because a laugh like that couldn't be forced.

It suits him to be a perpetual landlubber, even though O'Brian no longer
requires the literary device of a landsman to explain things to, (so that
the reader can understand the nautical parts he needs to understand later
in the book during an action scene). Because why, cully? Because if
Stephen were more sailorlike, some of his wandering around the countryside
when he should be hauling on a rope would arouse suspicion. If he falls
between the jollyboat and the frigate, no one would expect him to steer a
warship during a battle (as he did against the Cacafuego, very well
indeed), and therefore he might as well go ashore and be out of the way.
He's not just smoking the French - he's also building cover amongst his own
shipmates, who will blab with guileless innocence what a nincompoop he is,
as soon as they get drunk enough - that is, as soon as they get around
someone who is interested in their innocent blabs. Notice that he is
superbly competent as a surgeon, even as he falls off a chair and splits
open his own head when there's an audience to see it. So Bob's your uncle,
and deep throat ain't in it. He's lost in thought, and he purposely allows
himself to be lost in thought. The best cover is the one that comes most
naturally.

Message cb08df0200A-2965-350-07.htm, number 108, was posted on Wed Feb 11 at 05:50:47
in reply to a65d393dt6z-2957-885-30.htm
Re: The cricket match

Colin

Stephen's performance is indeed extraordinary in a cricket match, Bill because he is playing the Irish game of Hurly!. The rest of the assembled Leopards and Cumberlands are there for a game of cricket and there has been an exquisite misunderstanding. Briefly, Hurly is a fairly brisk, little disciplined game where the object of the exercise is to use the hurly as a bat, field hockey stick and weapon to convey the ball from one end of the field to the other. Cricket is a comparatively sedate game, one aim of which is for the batsman to protect his wicket (3 wooden poles of below waist height placed in the ground behind the batsman) from the ball. By dribbling the ball from his own wicket to Jack's and destroying them he spectacularly gave the game to the Admiral and broke every rule in the book. Beautifully constructed by our author, this episode never fails to make me smile.

Message c7e05aa8SOJ-2965-904-30.htm, number 109, was posted on Wed Feb 11 at 15:15:48
in reply to cb243424xxK-2943-407-30.htm
Re^6: The Last Two Books

Peter Robinson
kneemd@epix.net

The greatest novels I've ever read, but what about the discrepancy of Maturin's telling the Admiralty committee of the adventures chronicled in "The Wine Dark Sea", but stating that the vessel was the Nutmeg and not the Surprise?
Will there be more novels?

Message 98a3c35800A-2965-1019-30.htm, number 110, was posted on Wed Feb 11 at 16:59:40
A Technical Nautical Term

Chris Pendleton

In one of the novels ("The Far Side of the World", p. 326) Aubry admonishes Mowett telling him "You will not forget to gackle your cables, Mr. Mowett."

I've looked in every resource I can find, including two dictionaries of nautical terms. I can't find a definition for 'gackle' or gackling' cables. Does anyone know what it means? Thanks!

Message 98a3c358U19-2965-1089-30.htm, number 111, was posted on Wed Feb 11 at 18:10:34
The Deaths of Ledward and Wray

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

Toward the end of "The 13 gun salute", Stephen delivers the bodies of Ledward and Wray to the home of his collegue, van Buren. The two men then spend the night dissecting the corpses (p.253-254).

Each man was killed by a single rifle bullet. When van Buren initially makes the tentative, not very convincing suggestion that they may have died fighting each other, Stephen makes no response at all.

Stephen is a good man with a rifle. He has both professional and emotional reasons for wishing them dead. Particularly Wray after the events depicted in "Treason's Harbor" and the subsequent problems with Diana! On the other hand, the British envoy Fox HAS a wonderful rifle, and is in a murderous, vengeful rage against both men. Finally, the Sultan himself has been betrayed by both, in the most humiliatingly public manner. He could not kill them openly, but he would have ready assassins by the score.

Who killed Ledward and Wray?

Message 98a3c3db00A-2966-440-30.htm, number 112, was posted on Thu Feb 12 at 07:20:05
Clarissa and the Cat

Guest

Clarisa Oakes is an interesting character. Strong and brave, but with deep psychic wounds. She seems to have an aversion for children and animals. She can display a sudden and violent temper.

In "The Far Side of the World" there is a curious incident in which Reverend Martin's cat attempts to jump in her lap, and she immediately thrusts it away with something more than disgust. On the following day the cat has disappeared altogether. Clarissa asks Stephen to intercede on her behalf with the Reverend Martin. She explains to him that Martin might even believe she threw the animal overboard. "And I do so dislike being disliked."

Hmmmm. Wonder what happened?

Message 9e7d0f12MQ6-2966-712-30.htm, number 113, was posted on Thu Feb 12 at 11:58:13
What was the gun rate of the Torgud & Katibi?

Marc Fellows
BSU292@BANGOR.AC.UK

I'm trying to build a scenario based on the sea battle at the end of the "Ionian Mission". As I unfortunatly do not have the book, the only references I can find as to the sizes of the ships are from "Treasons Harbour" and the maps produced by Charles Keller. These describe the Torgud as being a frigate carrying "heavy metal" and having a much larger crew than the Surprse, with the Katibi classed as a brig. As the action was based on historic events, can anyone help with the actual number of guns carried?

Message cf35a3d8rqf-2966-812-30.htm, number 114, was posted on Thu Feb 12 at 13:39:51
in reply to 98a3c358U19-2965-1089-30.htm
Re: The Deaths of Ledward and Wray

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

Responding to: When van Buren initially makes the tentative, not very convincing suggestion that they may have died fighting each other, Stephen makes no response at all.

Response: Was it van Buren or Stephen speaking? And did he say 'each other?' A second look at these issues in the passage may clarify matters.

At the end of the prior passage (p.252), Stephen declines Jack's invitation to music with a vague reference to being 'engaged.' When van Buren asks on the next page whether Stephen 'arranged this with the Vizier,' Stephen replies 'I have too,...WE might do whatever WE pleased. But he was sure WE would be discreet' (emphasis added).

Whether or not he pulled the trigger, Stephen's involvement cannot be gainsaid. I'm no horror fan, but after pursuing these guys across the world and through political intrigue, I savored the dissection. If revenge is a dish best served cold, how much more satisfying must it be to cool the dish by peeling it back, layer upon layer, pickling the interesting parts and tossing away the waste with less concern than that of a servant pushing scraps off the master's plate, into the hog swill.

The interesting question comes at the end of the dissection, when van Buren comes forth with the intelligence about the success of the envoy. HOW DID HE KNOW?

Message c0c1c33100A-2966-881-30.htm, number 115, was posted on Thu Feb 12 at 14:41:37
in reply to cf35a3d8rqf-2966-812-30.htm
Re^2: The Deaths of Ledward and Wray

L. O'Donoghue

Later, too, (not sure which book) Jack strongly suspects that Stephen DISHED Ledward and Wray.

Message 98a3cf8aU19-2967-415-30.htm, number 116, was posted on Fri Feb 13 at 06:55:30
in reply to 9e7d0f12MQ6-2966-712-30.htm
Re: What was the gun rate of the Torgud & Katibi?

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Thu Feb 12, Marc Fellows wrote:
----------------------------------
>I'm trying to build a scenario based on the sea battle at the end of the "Ionian Mission". As I unfortunatly do not have the book, the only references I can find as to the sizes of the ships are from "Treasons Harbour" and the maps produced by Charles Keller. These describe the Torgud as being a frigate carrying "heavy metal" and having a much larger crew than the Surprse, with the Katibi classed as a brig. As the action was based on historic events, can anyone help with the actual number of guns carried?

In "The Ionian Mission", on p. 352, Graham (the political) notes that the Torgud carries 32 guns and the Kitabi carries 20 guns. Earlier (I forget where) Jack himself saw that the Torgud's armament included two massive 36 pounders opposite each other approximately amidships. She carried almost 400 men. Kitabi carried 180 men.

The Torgud was probably European built (probably French or Venitian), she was certainly European rigged and sailed. The Kitabi was described only as a "lumpish consort", completely outsailed and outgunned by Surprise..

Message c7b71f15SEc-2967-910-30.htm, number 117, was posted on Fri Feb 13 at 15:09:54
Archive of old messages available

Kirsten Miller
kmiller@wwnorton.com

Many of you forum-swains must have noticed that a whole bunch of forum postings recently dropped off the index page. We are still doing some troubleshooting with our new Web server, and it has caused some mysterious behavior in the forums. I thought you might like to know that the last 30 days of postings are archived in one page at

www.wwnorton.com/pob/forum/ceilidh.archive.html

Thanks for your patience!
Kirsten Miller
webmaster@wwnorton.com

Message 9924f307uGH-2968-952-30.htm, number 118, was posted on Sat Feb 14 at 15:53:00
Movie in the Future

Ed Pearce
epearce@hearst.com

Greetings. I am new to the ship's company and as a lubber may make many an error or cover areas previously discussed.

Has there been discussion,in the past, of a possible movie adaptation of the series? I am afraid that Holly Wood has utterly mangled works from authors I like. The exception is Turner's "Gettysburg" which tries to accurately portray "The Killer Angels". Yet is boring beyond belief.

I am interested in your thoughts. If this topic has been beaten to death in the past, please let me know. Many thanks.

A posting in the past inquired as to who POB readers are. Let me introduce myself. 47, married, BFA, former Cavalry Troop Commander, USArmy; currently a disaster recovery planner. Oh yes.. left handed.

Message c66d246cRjV-2968-1382-30.htm, number 119, was posted on Sat Feb 14 at 23:02:28
My Father's a big fan

Bill Waters
ad6937@wayne.edu

I'm amazed at how voracious my father's appetite is for Patrick O'Brian books. Thank you for keeping him entertained.

Message 98a3d572U19-2969-367-30.htm, number 120, was posted on Sun Feb 15 at 06:07:01
in reply to 9924f307uGH-2968-952-30.htm
Re: Movie in the Future

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Sat Feb 14, Ed Pearce wrote:
-------------------------------
>Greetings, Ed.

I'm new to the gunroom myself. But the folks here are great, and real experts on Jack and Stephen's adventures. It is a pleasure to read the smooth give and take, along with some wonderful ideas and suggestions.

There was something recently about someone in HollyWood taking an option on one of the novels (Post Captain?). And there is a lovely message (in the archive section) from some witty person regarding who would play whom if a movie were made.

Enjoy!

Chris

Message 9924f15euGH-2969-417-30.htm, number 121, was posted on Sun Feb 15 at 06:57:01
in reply to 98a3d572U19-2969-367-30.htm
Re^2: Movie in the Future

Ed Pearce
epearce@hearst.com

On Sun Feb 15, Chris Pendleton wrote:
-------------------------------------
>On Sat Feb 14, Ed Pearce wrote:
>-------------------------------
>>Greetings, Ed.

>I'm new to the gunroom myself. But the folks here are great, and real experts on Jack and Stephen's adventures. It is a pleasure to read the smooth give and take, along with some wonderful ideas and suggestions.

>There was something recently about someone in HollyWood taking an option on one of the novels (Post Captain?). And there is a lovely message (in the archive section) from some witty person regarding who would play whom if a movie were made.

>Enjoy!

>Chris

Hello Chris,

Thank you for the reply. Your courtesy is appreciated. I hope we have an opportunity for further communication.

My vote is for Neesom as Jack. The actors memtioned for Stephen are all acceptable. But what about the female roles. Who would play Sophie?

Ed

Message cefb9b7700A-2969-717-30.htm, number 122, was posted on Sun Feb 15 at 11:57:45
in reply to c7b71f15SEc-2967-910-30.htm
Re: Archive of old messages available

Richard J. Hughes

On Fri Feb 13, Kirsten Miller wrote:
------------------------------------
>Many of you forum-swains must have noticed that a whole bunch of forum postings recently dropped off the index page. We are still doing some troubleshooting with our new Web server, and it has caused some mysterious behavior in the forums. I thought you might like to know that the last 30 days of postings are archived in one page at

>www.wwnorton.com/pob/forum/ceilidh.archive.html

In truth the fault may be mine since I'm the author of Ceilidh, this discussion engine. Something, a bug perhaps (!), must have caused Ceilidh to think it had entered the future and so it automatically erased all the earlier messages.

Fortunately, as Kirsten notes, everything is saved in the archive.

I was about to start working on a small program to restore the messages from the archive into a reconstituted working forum but my wife just gave me two books, "Testimonies" and "The Rendezous". This, I fear, might delay progress by a couple of days :-)

My apologies to all. We will restore the old messages.

Richard

Message ceafb7a9QJ5-2969-1018-30.htm, number 123, was posted on Sun Feb 15 at 16:58:48
Music

John P. Sayles
jpsayles@gowebway.com

Has anyone compiled a list of the music selections that occur in the series? A CD of all the music would be a neat idea .

Message 9924f345uGH-2970-369-30.htm, number 124, was posted on Mon Feb 16 at 06:10:04
in reply to ceafb7a9QJ5-2969-1018-30.htm
Re: Music

Ed Pearce
epearce@hearst.com

On Sun Feb 15, John P. Sayles wrote:
------------------------------------
>Has anyone compiled a list of the music selections that occur in the series? A CD of all the music would be a neat idea .

Hello John,

There are two CDs in series. "Musical Evenings with the Captain" Music from the Aubrey-Maturin novels. and Volume two of the same name. They are from ESS.A.Y Recordings. I just bought both and the wife and I live them. I found mine at Borders Books.

To contact the company directly, phone 1.800.97.ESSAY or Fax 1.914.693.7040 Happy listening!

Ed

Message 98a3c358U19-2970-518-30.htm, number 125, was posted on Mon Feb 16 at 08:38:31
in reply to 9924f15euGH-2969-417-30.htm
Re^3: Movie in the Future

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Sun Feb 15, Ed Pearce wrote:
-------------------------------
>On Sun Feb 15, Chris Pendleton wrote:
>-------------------------------------
>>On Sat Feb 14, Ed Pearce wrote:
>>-------------------------------

Hello, Ed.

That IS an interesting question. But who would play Bonden? Who Clarissa? In fact, who could you get to be a real Killick?

Really, how can you transfer all that fun and all that wit from the books into a movie, at all, at all? A lot of it goes, but so much is internal description.

By the way, I'm 49, a former Marine sergeant. I like military folks. We are a community both bright and curious about things. POB is one of us!

If you will, would you give me some ideas on actors for those people? Maybe some other folks from the Gunroom will offer!

Chris

Message c645c82a00A-2970-880-30.htm, number 126, was posted on Mon Feb 16 at 14:41:02
in reply to 98a3c358U19-2965-1089-30.htm
Re: The Deaths of Ledward and Wray

Guest

On Wed Feb 11, Chris Pendleton wrote:
-------------------------------------
>Toward the end of "The 13 gun salute", Stephen delivers the bodies of Ledward and Wray to the home of his collegue, van Buren. The two men then spend the night dissecting the corpses (p.253-254).

>Each man was killed by a single rifle bullet. When van Buren initially makes the tentative, not very convincing suggestion that they may have died fighting each other, Stephen makes no response at all.

>Stephen is a good man with a rifle. He has both professional and emotional reasons for wishing them dead. Particularly Wray after the events depicted in "Treason's Harbor" and the subsequent problems with Diana! On the other hand, the British envoy Fox HAS a wonderful rifle, and is in a murderous, vengeful rage against both men. Finally, the Sultan himself has been betrayed by both, in the most humiliatingly public manner. He could not kill them openly, but he would have ready assassins by the score.

>Who killed Ledward and Wray?

Message 98a3c368U19-2971-960-30.htm, number 127, was posted on Tue Feb 17 at 16:02:43
in reply to 98a3c3db00A-2966-440-30.htm
Re: Clarissa and the Cat

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Thu Feb 12, Guest wrote:
---------------------------
If you'll forgive me, you had most of the information right, but the book was wrong. The incident is described on pp. 96-97 of "The Truelove". There are interesting references to Clarissa, of course, all through the book. Some perhaps pertinent descriptions can be found on pp. 71 and 102.

I think Clarissa gave Martin's cat the Jonah's lift. She is complex and ingenuous, both. Perhaps her terrible experiences created a cold side to her nature regarding animals and some children (perhaps most children?).

Incidentally, someone asked earlier how tall she was. On p. 93 of the same book, she is described as being "a little less than average size." If the average male height were around 5' 8", then maybe Clarissa would be around 5' 4"? Just a guess.

Nathaniel, the ball's in your court!

Message cf35a3d1rqf-2971-988-30.htm, number 128, was posted on Tue Feb 17 at 16:28:52
Gackle

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

At the behest of Gunroom denizen CPend, I humbly post the following for the benefit of all who may be wondering about the term "gackle." If you don't know the reference, don't ask, it'll only drive you crazier knowing...

Gackling refers to the provision of chafing gear for the lines. Now I don't expect you to take my word for it, and being eager to point up other resources, here's the page where it occurs:

web.wwnorton.com/pob/vol3i.htm

Any gratitudinous sentiment generated is due expression to that fine group at WW Norton for leaving out the bait. I'm just the fish that found it, swallowed it, and now - well, the analogy should just fizzle out right there.

Now can we cackle in our knowledge of gackles?

Message cf35a3cerqf-2971-1000-30.htm, number 129, was posted on Tue Feb 17 at 16:41:09
in reply to 98a3c358U19-2970-518-30.htm
Re^4: Movie in the Future

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

For Clarissa, I submit Madonna. Not that I'm a fan; it's just that her hollow spirit may be a good type-cast; she's played a whore who found a better life; and her dramatic aspirations (pun intended) may serve the turn for Clarissa - recall the passionless attitude toward procreativity in C? How much more basic must this psychic phenomenon be in one commercializing sex for fame, fortune, etc.

For Killick: Hold on to your hat: WILFRED BRIMLEY! the Arkansas accent can be dressed up - there's always HOPE, we're told to believe. Of course, he'd have to lose the mustache and a few pounds, which may kill the whole deal, but who's a better grumpy, muttering type who could utter the line (imagine Brimley's highest tone) "Which it's on the table now and getting cold!"

Submitted for your approval (and yes, the Rod Serling inference IS intended).

Message cf35a3d2rqf-2971-1015-30.htm, number 130, was posted on Tue Feb 17 at 16:56:26
in reply to 98a3c368U19-2971-960-30.htm
Re^2: Clarissa and the Cat

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

CPend writes: >Nathaniel, the ball's in your court!<

Which I don't know if it's a lob or drop shot... Okay, Chris must've liked my private reply to him on the subject, and never being one to beard a marine, here 'tis:

Chris, you must be a cat lover. As one alergic to felines this issue occured to me with a grim smile. Reminiscent it is of the old 80's books "101 Things to do with a Dead Cat." Maybe one of the rat-butchering boatswains dished the cat (as chicken, perhaps?) for clawing into his profits off the famished mids. Given her Clintonesque relationship to Martin, Clarissa probably felt that she needn't put up with him AND his cat. This thread could also lead into some very tawdry puns. Which I for one will smile at the recognition of potential and refrain from uttering.

Susan Wegner, please jump in here and give your thoughts about the bloody cat!

Message 8053cd9b00A-2971-1112-30.htm, number 131, was posted on Tue Feb 17 at 18:40:09
Possible movie

Virginia Gaines llvlg@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu

For Jack--Liam Neeson (although he is a bit too old already ...but in "Michael Collins" he looked pretty good (grin)! Or possibly the younger actor Colin Firth (Tv production of "Sense and Sensibility"; also a version of "Dangerous Liaisons" which was entitled "Valmont" and was directed by Milos Forman--anybody know the film I mean? But Firth has dark hair so would have to have a wig. Could be done, I guess, or bleach his hair ... He has a lot of physical presence. Or how about Sean Bean--anybody see the "Sharpe" series on PBS? Sharpe's Rifles, etc. Bean has a mean and lean look ... maybe too mean-looking but has the physical presence and strength, and portrays very convincingly a man other men will follow. For Stephen, I can't imagine anyone except Stephen Rea, the Irish actor who was in "The Crying Game", "Michael Collins", and I think a lot of stage plays. He has a great deal of hair, though, so would probably have to wear a wig to make him look as if he has less! He is not handsome, at least not conventionally, but is an actor with the ability to portray a complex man such as Stephen Maturin. For Killick--who else but the magnificent Pete Postlethwaite ("The Usual Suspects", the "Sharpe" series I mentioned, "In the Name of the Father", British TV, "Amistad" to name a few). I think nobody in this film should be American, though. There are too many excellent British and Irish actors to try to cast such a film with Americans. For Sophie--well, of course I can't remember her name (bear with me, I'm old) but she was in "House of Cards" on Masterpiece Theatre a few years ago and her first name is Susanna (not York). A lovely-looking blonde actress, very talented. She could really make something of Sophie. Well, I've blathered on long enough. I'll be interested to see what others think. Actually most of the time I don't want there to be a movie at all ... I like my own mental pictures! Still, wouldn't it be wonderful to see the ships at sea!

Message 98a3c5dbU19-2972-382-30.htm, number 132, was posted on Wed Feb 18 at 06:24:17
in reply to 8053cd9b00A-2971-1112-30.htm
Re: Possible movie

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Tue Feb 17, Virginia Gaines llvlg@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely agree! Sean Bean would do nicely. He is an actor and could tone down a little here and jolly up a little there - depending whether he was afloat or on the beach!

Who IS the woman you'd pick for Sophie? I don't recognize the reference, and can't think of a name.

Who would you pick for Clarissa? Nathaniel votes (maybe half seriously?) for Madonna. How about a younger Faye Dunaway?

Who would play Reverend Martin? Especially if the movie were taken from "The Wine Dark Sea"?

Sophie's mother?

Ultimately you're right, of course, in the end. The best theatre of all is the one between our own ears.

CP

Message 836b0318Rus-2972-680-30.htm, number 133, was posted on Wed Feb 18 at 11:21:25
in reply to 8053cd9b00A-2971-1112-30.htm
Re: Possible movie

John Short
jmshort@wolfenet.com

I think your choices for Jack may be too-good looking in the contemporary sense - physically fit and on the slim side. Remember Jack is a BIG, boisterous man (I cannot recall exact numbers off the top of my head, but is mentioned in several of the books that he is something along the lines of "15 stone" in weight). He is very tall for that time period - easily over six feet, and very solidly built. If you could find an blonde English actor who resembles a younger Nick Nolte - that would resemble the character I see in my mind.

As for Stephen - Stephen Rea is close - how about Gabriel Byrne or Jonathon Pryce? Both could do the sort of unkempt look that Dr. Maturin is known for. They could also transform themselves into beady-eyed sort of paranoid alertness that Stephen must go into when he is in intelligence agent mode.

Albert Finney would be a wonderfully cranky Killick.

Message ccb7296fRjT-2972-851-30.htm, number 134, was posted on Wed Feb 18 at 14:11:28
Next book???

Bill Croughwell
billc@coastalnet.com

Is there any word on a book after the Yellow Admiral? It ended on a note that made me think there would be another one. Sort of like the old Saturday afternoon serial at the movies.

Message 98a3c5f1tVS-2972-1263-30.htm, number 135, was posted on Wed Feb 18 at 21:03:31
No title!

loukahle
lkahle@repco-graphics.com

Is there anywhere in London to buy Goeff Hunt prints?

Message 98a3c5f1tVS-2972-1263-30.htm, number 135, was edited on Wed Feb 18 at 21:05:24
Goeff Hunt prints

loukahle
lkahle@repco-graphics.com

Is there anywhere in London to buy Goeff Hunt prints?

Message 98a3d572U19-2973-399-30.htm, number 136, was posted on Thu Feb 19 at 06:40:28
in reply to ccb7296fRjT-2972-851-30.htm
Re: Next book???

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Wed Feb 18, Bill Croughwell wrote:
-------------------------------------
>Is there any word on a book after the Yellow Admiral? It ended on a note that made me think there would be another one. Sort of like the old Saturday afternoon serial at the movies.

The more experienced members of the Gunroom could tell you more, but I think I read that there will be another novel in the Fall of this year, and perhaps another the year after that. POB will not fail us, any more than the 1940's Batman serial failed its watchers. Everything will be brought to a most satisfying close, I am sure. What is that phrase in "The Letter of Marque"?

Ah tutti contenti saremo cosi
ah tutti contenti saremo, saremo cosi

After all, he writes for people like us.

Chris

Message 8116dc29rGV-2973-1268-30.htm, number 137, was posted on Thu Feb 19 at 21:08:02
Stephen

Craig Haran
cth3@po.cwru.edu

Forgive my ignorance, I recently finished reading The Mauritius Command, and I thought O'Brien made a reference to Spephen imbibing/addicted to morphene? Does anybody have any more info. But please, don't give away too much of the next book!

Message 98a3d56fU19-2974-438-30.htm, number 138, was posted on Fri Feb 20 at 07:18:38
in reply to 8116dc29rGV-2973-1268-30.htm
Re: Stephen

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Thu Feb 19, Craig Haran wrote:
---------------------------------
>Forgive my ignorance, I recently finished reading The Mauritius Command, and I thought O'Brien made a reference to Spephen imbibing/addicted to morphene? Does anybody have any more info. But please, don't give away too much of the next book!

Stephen has unfortunately overindulged in tincure of laudanum from time to time, usually due to difficulties in his relationship with Diana!

Chris

Message ccb72986RjT-2974-598-30.htm, number 139, was posted on Fri Feb 20 at 09:58:46
in reply to 98a3d572U19-2973-399-30.htm
Re^2: Next book???

Bill Croughwell
billc@coastalnet.com

On Thu Feb 19, Chris Pendleton wrote:
-------------------------------------
>On Wed Feb 18, Bill Croughwell wrote:
>-------------------------------------
>>Is there any word on a book after the Yellow Admiral? It ended on a note that made me think there would be another one. Sort of like the old Saturday afternoon serial at the movies.

>The more experienced members of the Gunroom could tell you more, but I think I read that there will be another novel in the Fall of this year, and perhaps another the year after that. POB will not fail us, any more than the 1940's Batman serial failed its watchers. Everything will be brought to a most satisfying close, I am sure. What is that phrase in "The Letter of Marque"?

> Ah tutti contenti saremo cosi
> ah tutti contenti saremo, saremo cosi

>After all, he writes for people like us.

>Chris

By the by, it was Tom Mix I had in mind. Batman and Robin came along later.
Bill

Message c7b71f1bPiD-2974-668-30.htm, number 140, was posted on Fri Feb 20 at 11:07:53
Testing for forum revision

Stephen King
sking@wwnorton.com

Just to see if the optional cookies now work.

Message cf35a3cdrqf-2974-862-30.htm, number 141, was posted on Fri Feb 20 at 14:22:19
in reply to 98a3d56fU19-2974-438-30.htm
Re^2: Stephen

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining.com

>Stephen has unfortunately overindulged in tincure of laudanum from time to time, usually due to difficulties in his relationship with Diana!>

Which we won't be givin' up too much to say that the august and much beloved Mr. PO'B writes with such sensitivity about addiction that it leads one to wonder whether he may have had such an experience hisself. Or is it just the accomplished artist's ability to place enough before the observer to let the mind's eye fill in the rest of the detail, ala the arms of the Venus de Milo?

NKA

Message cfd986ac00A-2974-1280-30.htm, number 142, was posted on Fri Feb 20 at 21:20:23
in reply to cf35a3cerqf-2971-1000-30.htm
Re^5: Movie in the Future

Brad Kurtz

On Tue Feb 17, Nathaniel Adams wrote:
-------------------------------------
>For Clarissa, I submit Madonna. Not that I'm a fan; it's just that her hollow spirit may be a good type-cast; she's played a whore who found a better life; and her dramatic aspirations (pun intended) may serve the turn for Clarissa - recall the passionless attitude toward procreativity in C? How much more basic must this psychic phenomenon be in one commercializing sex for fame, fortune, etc.

>For Killick: Hold on to your hat: WILFRED BRIMLEY! the Arkansas accent can be dressed up - there's always HOPE, we're told to believe. Of course, he'd have to lose the mustache and a few pounds, which may kill the whole deal, but who's a better grumpy, muttering type who could utter the line (imagine Brimley's highest tone) "Which it's on the table now and getting cold!"

For Stephen, I have had a notion which has crowded out all other potential actors to the point that I envision this guy completely when I read the books: Rowan Atkinson! He's perfect in look and manner; the only knock on him is that he's tall, where Stephen is a short little runt. I like the idea of Liam Neeson and Rowan Atkinson as Jack and Stephen. (By the way, the movie company that optioned MASTER AND COMMANDER was the Samuel Goldwyn Company... a company that's probably too small to mount the large-scale, big-budget shoot that would be required to do justice to the books. I'm not holding my breath for a movie.)

Message cea36e64MIY-2974-1298-30.htm, number 143, was posted on Fri Feb 20 at 21:39:00
in reply to 98a3c368U19-2971-960-30.htm
Re^2: Clarissa and the Cat

Jim Berry
despost@iccom.com

On Tue Feb 17, Chris Pendleton wrote:
-------------------------------------
>On Thu Feb 12, Guest wrote:
>---------------------------
>If you'll forgive me, you had most of the information right, but the book was wrong. The incident is described on pp. 96-97 of "The Truelove". There are interesting references to Clarissa, of course, all through the book. Some perhaps pertinent descriptions can be found on pp. 71 and 102.

Actually, 'Clarissa Oakes' was the correct title and SO WAS 'The
Truelove'. Many 'pobies' don't seem to know that 'Clarissa Oakes'
was the title used on the UK edition of the volume published in the
U.S. as 'The Truelove'. I was driven nuts by this when I re-found
POB (long story) after losing his work for about 15 years. I read
'Master and Commander' when newly published and then remembered and
chased POB down again about 1994. The title conflict in the two
different series (UK vs. U.S.) took a while to resolve!!!!

Message cea36e64MIY-2974-1310-30.htm, number 144, was posted on Fri Feb 20 at 21:50:19
in reply to cea36e64MIY-2974-1298-30.htm
Re^3: Clarissa and the Cat

Jim Berry
despost@iccom.com

On Fri Feb 20, Jim Berry wrote:
-------------------------------
>Actually, 'Clarissa Oakes' was the correct title and SO WAS 'The
>Truelove'.

BRILLIANT!! I have just re-created FAQ #15! I guess it is the
thought that counts.

Message 82581903U6W-2976-542-30.htm, number 145, was posted on Sun Feb 22 at 09:02:28
in reply to 8053cd9b00A-2971-1112-30.htm
Re: Possible movie

Marc Fellows
BSU292@BANGOR.AC.UK

On Tue Feb 17, Virginia Gaines llvlg@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------
> For Sophie--well, of course I can't remember her name (bear with me, I'm old) but she was in "House of Cards" on Masterpiece Theatre a few years ago and her first name is Susanna (not York). A lovely-looking blonde actress, very talented.

I think the Actress in question is Susanna Harker. As I recall she appeared in the BBC version of "House of Cards". She's now in a sereies starring Trevor Eve on ITV. I agree that she could play Sophie very well. (Apologies to any puzzled Americans - ITV is the "other" UK channel)

Apologies for unintentionally breaching any gunroom etiquette!

Marc Fellows

Message 20649e42PiD-2976-1193-30.htm, number 146, was posted on Sun Feb 22 at 19:54:00
Oops.

Stephen King
sking@wwnorton.com

Sorry about the disappearing Forum. We should be able to restore the old discussion in a little while. Electrons are less reliable than a good east wind.

Message c7b71f05PiD-2977-470-30.htm, number 146, was posted on Mon Feb 23 at 07:50:18
in reply to cf35a3cdrqf-2974-862-30.htm
Re^3: Stephen

Stephen King
sking@wwnorton.com

On Fri Feb 20, Nathaniel Adams wrote:
-------------------------------------
>>>Stephen has unfortunately overindulged in tincure of laudanum from time to time, usually due to difficulties in his relationship with Diana!>

> Which we won't be givin' up too much to say that the august and much beloved Mr. PO'B writes with such sensitivity about addiction that it leads one to wonder whether he may have had such an experience hisself. Or is it just the accomplished artist's ability to place enough before the observer to let the mind's eye fill in the rest of the detail, ala the arms of the Venus de Milo?

>NKA

test

>

Message c7b71f1bPiD-2977-501-30.htm, number 147, was posted on Mon Feb 23 at 08:21:21
in reply to cf35a3cdrqf-2974-862-30.htm
Re^3: Stephen

Stephen King
sking@wwnorton.com

test again

Message cfb3876100A-2978-1267-30.htm, number 148, was posted on Tue Feb 24 at 21:07:35
in reply to ccb72986RjT-2974-598-30.htm
Re^3: Next book???

Graeme Scott

I've seen posts here in the last month or two about this topic.It seems to me that the next book is expected out sometime this fall.The working title is "The Hundred Days"which makes sense given the ending of "The Yellow Admiral".I can't recall any major actions during this period(other than Waterloo where I think Jack might be a little out of his depth) but I'm sure POB will come up with something! Speaking of Waterloo,has anyone read the book in the "Sharpe" series by that title?I think it contains one of the best and most easily understood overviews of the battle that I've read.







Message 820b38b8PjK-2979-470-30.htm, number 149, was posted on Wed Feb 25 at 07:50:34
in reply to 98a3c5f1tVS-2972-1263-30.htm
Re: Goeff Hunt prints

Susan Wenger
wwenger101@aol.com

On Thu Feb 19, loukahle wrote:
------------------------------
>Is there anywhere in London to buy Goeff Hunt prints?
You can buy them by mail from john berg at searoom. His address is: Sea Room, PO Box 298, Long Lake, MN 55356 US

- Susan Wenger wwenger101@aol.com

Message 820b38b8PjK-2979-477-30.htm, number 150, was posted on Wed Feb 25 at 07:56:49
in reply to cf35a3d2rqf-2971-1015-30.htm
Re^3: Clarissa and the Cat

Susan Wenger
wwenger101@aol.com

On Tue Feb 17, Nathaniel Adams wrote:
-------------------------------------

>Susan Wegner, please jump in here and give your thoughts about the bloody cat!

Sorry, I've been out of town. Which I'm certain Clarissa killed the cat - there were no other suspects identified, and the cat never turned up again. - So little Brigid better not sit up on the box of the coach with Clarissa, or Barbara will be her aunt. If Stephen's pet snake at the cat, POB would have had him burping auspiciously. If a midshipman at the cat, he'd have had a guilty conscience, and gone to Stephen with a tummy-ache, and Stephen would have given him a vile dose that would have glued him to the seat for days to come. None of the boys or men would have been unconscionable enough to hurt Rev. Martin's cat without enough bad feelings to ultimately confess. It was a GIRL that done it. POB likes some girls, but I think Clarissa did it, and her conscience is untroubled.
- Susan Wenger wwenger101@aol.com

Message a63707e300A-2979-1280-30.htm, number 151, was posted on Wed Feb 25 at 21:20:46
in reply to 8053cd9b00A-2971-1112-30.htm
Re: Possible movie

Guest

On Tue Feb 17, Virginia Gaines llvlg@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>For Jack--Liam Neeson (although he is a bit too old already ...but in "Michael Collins" he looked pretty good (grin)! Or possibly the younger actor Colin Firth (Tv production of "Sense and Sensibility"; also a version of "Dangerous Liaisons" which was entitled "Valmont" and was directed by Milos Forman--anybody know the film I mean? But Firth has dark hair so would have to have a wig. Could be done, I guess, or bleach his hair ... He has a lot of physical presence. Or how about Sean Bean--anybody see the "Sharpe" series on PBS? Sharpe's Rifles, etc. Bean has a mean and lean look ... maybe too mean-looking but has the physical presence and strength, and portrays very convincingly a man other men will follow. For Stephen, I can't imagine anyone except Stephen Rea, the Irish actor who was in "The Crying Game", "Michael Collins", and I think a lot of stage plays. He has a great deal of hair, though, so would probably have to wear a wig to make him look as if he has less! He is not handsome, at least not conventionally, but is an actor with the ability to portray a complex man such as Stephen Maturin. For Killick--who else but the magnificent Pete Postlethwaite ("The Usual Suspects", the "Sharpe" series I mentioned, "In the Name of the Father", British TV, "Amistad" to name a few). I think nobody in this film should be American, though. There are too many excellent British and Irish actors to try to cast such a film with Americans. For Sophie--well, of course I can't remember her name (bear with me, I'm old) but she was in "House of Cards" on Masterpiece Theatre a few years ago and her first name is Susanna (not York). A lovely-looking blonde actress, very talented. She could really make something of Sophie. Well, I've blathered on long enough. I'll be interested to see what others think. Actually most of the time I don't want there to be a movie at all ... I like my own mental pictures! Still, wouldn't it be wonderful to see the ships at sea!

Message 84b9840d00A-2980-1068-30.htm, number 152, was posted on Thu Feb 26 at 17:48:33
No title!

MJ Arnold

Does anyone know where Patrick O'Brian lived in Wales, why he moved there or why he left ? It is obvious from Testimonies that he learned to speak some of the language - does anyone have any information about his time yn Gogledd Cymru ?

Message 84b9840d00A-2980-1080-30.htm, number 153, was posted on Thu Feb 26 at 18:00:27
Wales

MJ Arnold

Does anyone know where Patrick O'Brian lived in Wales, why he moved there or why he left ? It is obvious from Testimonies that he learned to speak some of the language - does anyone have any information about his time yn Gogledd Cymru ?

Message 98a08302sWI-2984-527-30.htm, number 154, was posted on Mon Mar 2 at 08:47:01
in reply to cf35a3d1rqf-2971-988-30.htm
Re: Gackle

Harry Clark
hfc@umich.edu

Thanks for the explanation of "gackling". I came onto this site for the express purpose of looking it up, a search in "Sea of Words", the OED and elsewhere having failed. ("Mr Mowett, do not forget to gackle your cables.")

Isn't it amazing how much colloquial English comes from nautical expressions? "The cat is out of the bag" etc.

Is there a new O'Brian in the works? (The answer is probably on this site somewhere).

Harry Clark

Message 0c44bb7b00B-2984-780-30.htm, number 155, was posted on Mon Mar 2 at 12:59:47
in reply to 98a3c358U19-2965-1089-30.htm
Re: The Deaths of Ledward and Wray

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

On Wed Feb 11, Chris Pendleton wrote:
-------------------------------------
>Toward the end of "The 13 gun salute", Stephen delivers the bodies of Ledward and Wray to the home of his collegue, van Buren. The two men then spend the night dissecting the corpses (p.253-254).

>Each man was killed by a single rifle bullet. When van Buren initially makes the tentative, not very convincing suggestion that they may have died fighting each other, Stephen makes no response at all.

>Stephen is a good man with a rifle. He has both professional and emotional reasons for wishing them dead. Particularly Wray after the events depicted in "Treason's Harbor" and the subsequent problems with Diana! On the other hand, the British envoy Fox HAS a wonderful rifle, and is in a murderous, vengeful rage against both men. Finally, the Sultan himself has been betrayed by both, in the most humiliatingly public manner. He could not kill them openly, but he would have ready assassins by the score.

>Who killed Ledward and Wray?

Why, Stephen did, of course! Fox may have a murderous rage, but he is an unstable person psychologically. He is more likely to internalize his rage. The Sultan cannot act because there is a French frigate (albeit under repair) in the offing. Killing L&W would be a declaration of war against France. On the other hand, it is highly likely that the Sultan would gladly turn a blind eye to an "accident" befalling the two traitors.

Of all the suspects, only Stephen has proven that he is ready to kill in cold blood as he did in Boston. A great deal of rage, over Catalonia, over Ireland, over the injustices done to Jack, over Diana, had been building up by the time of The Thirteen Gun Salute. By this time, Ledward and Wray were nothing more than specimins to him, animals to be collected and dissected. What a marvelous piece of art macabre by Patrick O'Brian, to have Stephen satisfy his lust for revenge in this way...

Message c27e566e00A-2984-792-30.htm, number 156, was posted on Mon Mar 2 at 13:12:19
in reply to cfd986ac00A-2974-1280-30.htm
Re^6: Movie in the Future

Chris Jones

On Fri Feb 20, Brad Kurtz
wrote:
---------------------------------
>On Tue Feb 17, Nathaniel Adams wrote:
>-------------------------------------
>>
(By the way, the movie company that optioned MASTER AND COMMANDER was the Samuel Goldwyn Company... a company that's probably too small to mount the large-scale, big-budget shoot that would be required to do justice to the books. I'm not holding my breath for a movie.)
>


I'm rather afraid few could. The Hornblower TV series is already way over budget and the filming which has taken place in the Ukraine is less than good.

Message 98a3cf87U19-2984-1429-30.htm, number 157, was posted on Mon Mar 2 at 23:48:49
in reply to 820b38b8PjK-2979-477-30.htm
Re^4: Clarissa and the Cat

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Wed Feb 25, Susan Wenger wrote:
----------------------------------
>On Tue Feb 17, Nathaniel Adams wrote:
>-------------------------------------

>>Susan Wegner, please jump in here and give your thoughts about the bloody cat!
>
>Sorry, I've been out of town. Which I'm certain Clarissa killed the cat - there were no other suspects identified, and the cat never turned up again.

Right as dried peas, mate!

Message 98a3cf87U19-2984-1436-30.htm, number 158, was posted on Mon Mar 2 at 23:55:59
in reply to 98a08302sWI-2984-527-30.htm
Re^2: Gackle

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Mon Mar 2, Harry Clark wrote:
--------------------------------

>Is there a new O'Brian in the works? (The answer is probably on this site somewhere).

>Harry Clark


Which there is a strong rumor that POB laid off a couple years for a run ashore. But he will be sailing again in Fall, '98, with a novel about Jack and Stephen's role in Napoleon's Hundred Days campaign.

Chris

Message 0c4480bb00A-2985-606-30.htm, number 159, was posted on Tue Mar 3 at 10:06:27
Casting Idea

Dr. Baker

As a suggestion for a possible movie, although she may be a bit too old now, I believe that the actress Lesley-Ann Downe (Georgina in Upstairs, Downstairs) is Diana Villiers sprung to life - tall, raven haired, blue-eyed, brave.

Message 98a3cca0U19-2985-774-30.htm, number 160, was posted on Tue Mar 3 at 12:54:29
in reply to 0c4480bb00A-2985-606-30.htm
Re: Casting Idea

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Tue Mar 3, Dr. Baker wrote:
------------------------------
>As a suggestion for a possible movie, although she may be a bit too old now, I believe that the actress Lesley-Ann Downe (Georgina in Upstairs, Downstairs) is Diana Villiers sprung to life - tall, raven haired, blue-eyed, brave.

Which she might be just the person. Nice pick, Mate!

Message 0c44bbe000B-2985-1401-30.htm, number 161, was posted on Tue Mar 3 at 23:21:10
in reply to 8116dc29rGV-2973-1268-30.htm
Re: Stephen

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

On Thu Feb 19, Craig Haran wrote:
---------------------------------
>Forgive my ignorance, I recently finished reading The Mauritius Command, and I thought O'Brien made a reference to Spephen imbibing/addicted to morphene? Does anybody have any more info. But please, don't give away too much of the next book!

For the record, Stephen Maturin is an addictive personaluty. That is, he is prone to substance addiction in a variety of forms. Aside from laudnam, he was also a coca leaf addict. He is also addicted to tobacco and is fond of his "paper cigars." Finally, he his addicted to coffee. Given his manic and obsessional nature --i.e. his fanatical devotion to natural science and his constant state of anxiety over Diana-- it is not surprising that he seeks quick and easy release. I make no moral judgements about his behavior. Addiction, per se, was poorly understood by physicians of his era. It should also be noted tht one of the highest risk occupations for addiction is that of physician --doctors and dentists think they know their limits.

Message 0c44bbe0UQE-2985-1412-30.htm, number 162, was posted on Tue Mar 3 at 23:31:46
in reply to 98a3cca0U19-2985-774-30.htm
Re^2: Casting Idea

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

On Tue Mar 3, Chris Pendleton wrote:
------------------------------------
>On Tue Mar 3, Dr. Baker wrote:
>------------------------------
>>As a suggestion for a possible movie, although she may be a bit too old now, I believe that the actress Lesley-Ann Downe (Georgina in Upstairs, Downstairs) is Diana Villiers sprung to life - tall, raven haired, blue-eyed, brave.

>Which she might be just the person. Nice pick, Mate!

>How about Miriam Margoules for Mrs. Willims, Emma Thompson for Clarissa Oakes, Kate Winslet for Sophie, John Hurt for Stephen, Daniel Day Lewis for Bonden, Rowan Atkinson for Killick, and Timothy Dalton for Jack?

Message 98a3d574U19-2986-441-30.htm, number 163, was posted on Wed Mar 4 at 07:21:29
in reply to 0c44bbe0UQE-2985-1412-30.htm
Re^3: Casting Idea

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com


>>How about Miriam Margoules for Mrs. Willims, Emma Thompson for Clarissa Oakes, Kate Winslet for Sophie, John Hurt for Stephen, Daniel Day Lewis for Bonden, Rowan Atkinson for Killick, and Timothy Dalton for Jack?


Timothy Dalton for Jack? He doesn't seem quite the big, burly, semi-corpulent, sanguine, open faced, outgoing Jack to me. But I can't think of anybody.

Message 0c44bb87UQE-2986-649-30.htm, number 164, was posted on Wed Mar 4 at 10:48:57
Aubrey-Maturin vs. Hornblower

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

I would be interested in the opinions of other fans of this series who are also familiar with the Horatio Hornblower cycle of novels. I think that the Aubrey-Maturin series is clearly better (I confess to having made two complete "circumnavigations" of the whole series), but I like the psychological protrait Forester paints of Hornblower, the man who is never perfect enough to satisfy his own relentless and agonizing self-hatred.

I think Aubrey-Maturin is superior not only for its historical detail, but because we are given TWO complex psychological portraits in Jack and Stephen. Also, the sheer artistry of O'Brian's prose cannot be gainsaid. Reading O'Brian --especially his descriptions of long stretches of sea travel and the rhythm of life aborad ship-- is like listening to Mozart...

Message 0c44bb87UQE-2986-652-30.htm, number 165, was posted on Wed Mar 4 at 10:52:12
in reply to 98a3d574U19-2986-441-30.htm
Re^4: Casting Idea

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

On Wed Mar 4, Chris Pendleton wrote:
------------------------------------
>>>>How about Miriam Margoules for Mrs. Willims, Emma Thompson for Clarissa Oakes, Kate Winslet for Sophie, John Hurt for Stephen, Daniel Day Lewis for Bonden, Rowan Atkinson for Killick, and Timothy Dalton for Jack?
>
>
>Timothy Dalton for Jack? He doesn't seem quite the big, burly, semi-corpulent, sanguine, open faced, outgoing Jack to me. But I can't think of anybody.

Okay, how about Michael Caine for Jack? Or is he too old? Sean Bean might make a good choice if we fatten him up and get the snarl off his face...

Message cf35a3d8rmx-2986-1065-30.htm, number 166, was posted on Wed Mar 4 at 17:45:49
in reply to 0c44bb87UQE-2986-649-30.htm
Re: Aubrey-Maturin vs. Hornblower

Nathaniel Adams
nadams@hecla-mining

On Wed Mar 4, Brian Murphy wrote:
---------------------------------
>I would be interested in the opinions of other fans of this series who are also familiar with the Horatio Hornblower cycle of novels.

Okay, now you've gone and done me in! I've resisted Hornblower all this time and now you force me to indulge myself! Don't wait around for the anwer, as I'll probably be gone for some time. Which there's a short story in there somewhere about Jack and Stephen meeting Horatio, ain't there?

Message a8d444c500A-2987-632-30.htm, number 167, was posted on Thu Mar 5 at 10:32:17
in reply to 0c44bb87UQE-2986-649-30.htm
Re: Aubrey-Maturin vs. Hornblower

Ivan Stoner

On Wed Mar 4, Brian Murphy wrote:
---------------------------------
>I would be interested in the opinions of other fans of this series who are also familiar with the Horatio Hornblower cycle of novels. I think that the Aubrey-Maturin series is clearly better (I confess to having made two complete "circumnavigations" of the whole series), but I like the psychological protrait Forester paints of Hornblower, the man who is never perfect enough to satisfy his own relentless and agonizing self-hatred.

>I think Aubrey-Maturin is superior not only for its historical detail, but because we are given TWO complex psychological portraits in Jack and Stephen. Also, the sheer artistry of O'Brian's prose cannot be gainsaid. Reading O'Brian --especially his descriptions of long stretches of sea travel and the rhythm of life aborad ship-- is like listening to Mozart...

Quite right! Hear him! Huzzay!
I commend you for your praise of the Aubrey-Maturin series. Though I must disagree about Forrester's psychological portrait of Hornblower. Hornblower's philosophical debate over every word that comes out of his mouth just isn't believable to me.

Viva Jack Aubrey!

Message c253f00800A-2987-745-30.htm, number 168, was posted on Thu Mar 5 at 12:26:08
The movie idea is old hat, how about a game/simulation?

M J Fellows

The movie idea has obviously been floating around for some time (see the many ref's. in the archives). It seems fairly obvious to me that perhaps a "game" for the PC could be considered based on the books (or at least one of them). I envisage a sort of first person simulation come adventure roleplaying game, i.e. a true hybrid of genres. I think it is feasable with the technology available, i.e. 3D hardware should make the game a visual feast.
It seems to me that the main argument would be the demand for such a game. The counter to this is that there are 3 napoleonic naval (or at least purporting to be)simulations on the market. Of these only one which I rate (no pun intended). The game in question is Avalon Hills "Wooden Ships & Iron Men". I found this game to be pretty good fun and helps in the understanding of the problems faced by Aubrey and his historical counterparts due to its concentration on single ship actions. Having said that the game is limited in scope.
Naval games do sell on the PC as shown by Dynamix's "Aces of the Deep", a simulation of the WW2 battle of the Atlantic (in real time) from the German perspective. I think it is plausible that the humour and action of P.O'B.s books could be successfully transported to the small screen (depending upon your monitor size of course!).

Message c253f00400A-2987-755-30.htm, number 169, was posted on Thu Mar 5 at 12:35:36
Is O'Brian's use of the term "parthenogenesis" correct?

M.J. Fellows

In severel of the Aubrey/Maturin books O'Brien uses the term "parthenogenesis". One reference I remember in relation to Lacerta lizards. I would like to know (as a final year Biology undergrad.)if the term is accurate for the time period?
I suspect that it is, but any biological word with the term "gene" is generaly modern (post early 1900's at any rate). I think though the answer lies in the definition - female reproduction without male gametes.
If anybody can clear this little mystery up I would be grateful.

Message 0c44bb30UQE-2987-866-30.htm, number 170, was posted on Thu Mar 5 at 14:25:38
Revised Cast for Movie....

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

Here is my dream cast for the someday Aubry-Maturin movie:

Jack: Michael Caine
Stephen: John Hurt
Diana: Nicole Kidman
Sophie: Kate Winslett
Bonden: Sean Bean
Killick Rowan Atkinson
Ledward Hugh Laurie
Wray Hugh Grant
Mrs.Williams Miriam Margoules
Clarissa Emma Thompson
Sir Joseph Nigel Hawthorne

Comments?

Message c2a8796600A-2987-892-30.htm, number 171, was posted on Thu Mar 5 at 14:52:49
Sad bunch of losers

Mike Ball

Why dont you all get a life?, sitting there all day with nothing better to do than leave messages about a book you read. I bet you all
ware anoracks!
How about going out and having a drink and talk to some girls(the ones
with the pointy jumpers)
Good luck with your new life.

PS It is obvious that Ledward and Wray were knocked on the head by
both Maturin and Wray

Message a63707f300A-2987-1351-30.htm, number 169, was posted on Thu Mar 5 at 22:31:34
in reply to c253f00400A-2987-755-30.htm
Re: Is O'Brian's use of the term "parthenogenesis"

chrisc

On Thu Mar 5, M.J. Fellows wrote:
---------------------------------
>In severel of the Aubrey/Maturin books O'Brien uses the term "parthenogenesis". One reference I remember in relation to Lacerta lizards. I would like to know (as a final year Biology undergrad.)if the term is accurate for the time period?
>I suspect that it is, but any biological word with the term "gene" is generaly modern (post early 1900's at any rate). I think though the answer lies in the definition - female reproduction without male gametes.
>If anybody can clear this little mystery up I would be grateful.

According to my trusty Collins Dictionary of the English Language (Thumb Indexed!), the word originated in the 19th century and stems from the Greek "parthenos" (virgin)+"genesis" (birth). I think POB is on safe ground here.

Message cb243424vTH-2988-429-30.htm, number 170, was posted on Fri Mar 6 at 07:09:19
in reply to a8d444c500A-2987-632-30.htm
Re^2: Aubrey-Maturin vs. Hornblower

Bill Dalley
wildal@wollongong.starway.net.au

On Thu Mar 5, Ivan Stoner wrote:
--------------------------------
>On Wed Mar 4, Brian Murphy wrote:
>---------------------------------
>>I would be interested in the opinions of other fans of this series

>Quite right! Hear him! Huzzay!
>I commend you for your praise of the Aubrey-Maturin series. Though I must disagree about Forrester's psychological portrait of Hornblower. Hornblower's philosophical debate over every word that comes out of his mouth just isn't believable to me.

> Viva Jack Aubrey!

I have been reading this group for months wondering when this topic would come up. I have read Aubrey/Maturin series over and over and I have done the same with Hornblower. The answer has to be that the Aubrey/Maturin series has far greater depth and vision. To me Hornblower is like Philip of Macedon to his son Alexander - a great father to an even greater son.

I think part of the reason is that when Forester wrote "The Happy Return" he could not have envisaged the series that would follow. The Happy Return is far and away the best of the novels - the rest of the series do not compare. O'Brien, I think, probably planned a series from the start.

Anyway, I think we would all agree that both Aubrey and Hornblower stand head and shoulders over Bolitho and Ramage!

Message c2a83fb400A-2988-456-30.htm, number 171, was posted on Fri Mar 6 at 07:35:31
Sad bunch of losers (mark II Do not delete this time)

Mike Ball, Mike Ball

Why dont you get a life?, sitting there all day with nothing better
to do than leave messages about a book you read. I bet you all ware
anoracks!
How about going out and having a drink and talk to some girls(the
ones with the pointy jumpers)
Good luck in your new life
PS It is obvious that Ledward and Wray were knocked on the head
by both Maturin and Fox.

Message c7b71f06uMz-2988-617-30.htm, number 169, was posted on Fri Mar 6 at 10:17:16
Strange forum behavior?

Kirsten Miller
webmaster@wwnorton.com

Some of you have probably noticed some strange behavior in this forum, with many messages disappearing all at once and then
coming back. It seems the software that runs the forum is a little buggy, and we have been working with the programmer to get
it straightened out. If you see your messages disappearing, it's not because we are censoring the forum, it's because of technical
difficulties. Please excuse the inconvenience.

Thanks for your patience!
Kirsten Miller
webmaster@wwnorton.com

Message 9923d69d00B-2988-961-30.htm, number 170, was posted on Fri Mar 06 at 16:01:37
Access to ship's rosters

Dan Summerhays
f706@msn.com

In reading in book 5 I came across a reference to Ned Summerhayes. I know that POB researches extensively in writing his books. What interests me is where he found that name. If that is a real person I'd like to find out as much as I can as this is probabily a relative. I also had a great-great grandfather pressed into the royal navy and served aboard a ship guarding Bonaparte. Can anyone shed any light here?

Thanks

Message 9925f56d00A-2990-905-30.htm, number 171, was posted on Sun Mar 8 at 15:05:51
Surgical Proof

CW Shelley

I need some help. I have a running debate with my wife as to the historical accuracy of Stephan's operation, where he opens a patient's head and "rouses out his brains." I have no time to research the historical authenticity of this operation (I'm a grad student in history, but a totally different field). If anyone out there could find out if this kind of thing actually happened, and post the citation so that i could grab it out of our library and show my wife, I would be most grateful.
CWS, Mt. Hood, Oregon.

Message a63707e600A-2990-976-30.htm, number 172, was posted on Sun Mar 8 at 16:16:02
in reply to 9925f56d00A-2990-905-30.htm
Re: Surgical Proof

chrisc

On Sun Mar 8, CW Shelley wrote:
-------------------------------
>I need some help. I have a running debate with my wife as to the historical accuracy of Stephan's operation, where he opens a patient's head and "rouses out his brains." I have no time to research the historical authenticity of this operation (I'm a grad student in history, but a totally different field). If anyone out there could find out if this kind of thing actually happened, and post the citation so that i could grab it out of our library and show my wife, I would be most grateful.
>CWS, Mt. Hood, Oregon.

See if you can find anything dealing with "trepanning" in your history texts. The trepan or trephine is a circular, sawlike instrument which has been used for hundreds of years to remove round sections of bone, usually in the skull. I imagine it's used to relieve pressure from blood clots or swelling inside the skull.

There is a French surname "Trepannier" or "Trepanier' stll seen in Quebec!

Message cb202b24vTH-2991-286-30.htm, number 173, was posted on Mon Mar 9 at 04:46:12
in reply to a63707e600A-2990-976-30.htm
Re^2: Surgical Proof

Bill Dalley
wildal@wollongong.starway.net.au

If you were as old as I, (50) you would remember a series of pictures that the pharmaceutical manufacturer Parke Davis used to publish in the 1950's Reader's Digest. These depicted ancient methods of medical treatment.The only one that sticks in my brain was of the ancient Egyptians trepanning a conscious patient.

Without going to the Oxford Classical Encyclopaedia I did find in Encarta the following under "trepanning":

Trepanning is the most ancient form of surgery for which objective evidence exists. Examination of fossil skulls indicates that trepanning was performed as early as the Neolithic Age. In ancient times trepanning was performed on live patients suffering from fractured skulls, convulsions, and insanity. Disks of bone from the skulls of cadavers were often carved and used as religious amulets in ancient Egypt and Sumeria.



"Trepanning," Microsoft(R) Encarta(R) 96 Encyclopedia. (c) 1993-1995 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. (c) Funk & Wagnalls Corporation. All rights reserved.

(How virtuous to include the copyright message!!)

Bill Dalley
Wollongong, Australia

Message 98a3c359U19-2991-510-30.htm, number 174, was posted on Mon Mar 9 at 08:30:12
in reply to cb202b24vTH-2991-286-30.htm
Re^3: Surgical Proof

Chris Pendleton
CPend@aol.com

On Mon Mar 9, Bill Dalley wrote:
--------------------------------
>If you were as old as I, (50) you would remember a series of pictures that the pharmaceutical manufacturer Parke Davis used to publish in the 1950's Reader's Digest. These depicted ancient methods of medical treatment.The only one that sticks in my brain was of the ancient Egyptians trepanning a conscious patient.

You're right! I remember that. Actually, you can go to any good library and find pictures in various old medical texts of the instruments used in trepanning - right through recent times. Stephen was no where near the first, or the last, to use that method of relieving intercranial pressure or removing fragments from the brain.

Message 8a405c3b00A-2991-897-30.htm, number 175, was posted on Mon Mar 9 at 14:58:20
Of Revolving Pistols

Tom Chekouras

In book seven, Maturin is confronted by a Frenchman with what is discribed as a "revolving pistol" and it is mentioned that the hammer is cocked by the trigger. I know that some examples of revolving cylinder pistols predate Colts patent in 1838 or so, but this seems vary early. Is this simply an extreamly rare mistake by O'Brian or did he have some particular pistol in mind?

Message 0c44bb25UQE-2991-923-30.htm, number 176, was posted on Mon Mar 9 at 15:23:25
A cast for the movie....

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

Just before the forum got the hiccups, I suggested a cast for the proposed Aubrey-Maturin movie. Again, for your amusement, are my proposals:

Jack Aubrey Michael Caine
Stephen Maturin John Hurt
Sophie Meryl Strep
Diana Gwyenneth Paltrow
Mrs. Williams Miryam Margoulies
Sir Joseph Richard Attenborough
Bonden Colm Meany
Pullings Timothy Dalton
Wray Hugh Grant
Ledward Alan Rickman
Clarissa Emma Thompson
Killick Rowan Atkinson

So, what do you think?

Message cf4f238a00A-2991-1258-30.htm, number 177, was posted on Mon Mar 9 at 20:58:38
in reply to 0c44bb25UQE-2991-923-30.htm
Re: A cast for the movie....

culver,

On Mon Mar 9, Brian Murphy wrote:
---------------------------------
>Just before the forum got the hiccups, I suggested a cast for the proposed Aubrey-Maturin movie. Again, for your amusement, are my proposals:

>Jack Aubrey Michael Caine
>Stephen Maturin John Hurt
>Sophie Meryl Strep
>Diana Gwyenneth Paltrow
>Mrs. Williams Miryam Margoulies
>Sir Joseph Richard Attenborough
>Bonden Colm Meany
>Pullings Timothy Dalton
>Wray Hugh Grant
>Ledward Alan Rickman
>Clarissa Emma Thompson
>Killick Rowan Atkinson

>So, what do you think?
>Rowan Atkinson as Killick is a stroke of genius. What about Kenneth Branagh as Aubrey and Harvey Keitel as Maturin?

Message cb202b24vTH-2982-354-30.htm, number 178, was posted on Tue Mar 10 at 05:54:28
in reply to cf4f238a00A-2991-1258-30.htm
Re^2: A cast for the movie....

Bill Dalley
wildal@wollongong.starway.net.au

Suggesting a cast for a movie highlights the problem with movies made from books - they're always somebody else's interpretation of the characters. I always come away from movies like this feeling "that's not how I imagined it!"

Aubrey, Maturin, Sophie, Diana and the rest are all clear individuals in my mind. I think it would be hard to find a cast that could "play" those people - rather like having a friend who you see played by someone else in a movie. You think (like T S Elliot) "that is not how it was at all"!!

Many scenes are clear in my mind - the sinking of the Dutch 64 (whose name I won't try and spell) is one particularly clear example. Like Stephen's listeners on the frightful old Leopard (once she has been reduced to the role of a transport) who will not let him alter a single word of his account of the sinking, I would be uneasy if someone made a film that differed from my "recollection" of the scene!

Message c32c6229vPx-2982-501-30.htm, number 179, was posted on Tue Mar 10 at 08:22:10
in reply to 8a405c3b00A-2991-897-30.htm
Re: Of Revolving Pistols

David Critchley
dcritchley@yahoo.com

On Mon Mar 9, Tom Chekouras wrote:
----------------------------------
>In book seven, Maturin is confronted by a Frenchman with what is discribed as a "revolving pistol" and it is mentioned that the hammer is cocked by the trigger. I know that some examples of revolving cylinder pistols predate Colts patent in 1838 or so, but this seems vary early. Is this simply an extreamly rare mistake by O'Brian or did he have some particular pistol in mind?
---------------------------------------------

You do get examples of revolvers before Colt. Most examples are percussion cap which as a priming mechanism I think start to appear on fowling muskets in about 1810.

Some early percussion pistols don't have a spur on the hammer and so I assume they are cocked by the trigger. Early revolving flintlocks had cylinders or more frequently barrels that were turned by hand after each shot.

I have to stress pistols are not my speciality but since I collect Georgian swords I tend to see a lot of pistols of that period at auction. I think its likely that Stephen's revolver would have existed, but it probably would have had to have been a private piece. Production would have been too costly for the Navy.


David Critchley

Message cfc104a800A-2982-702-30.htm, number 180, was posted on Tue Mar 10 at 11:44:20
Ballast

Art Howell

Is anyone aware of any reference in the canon to the origin of ship's ballast as being from foundry or foundry by-product? I have a theory that manganese nodules, much in interest for mining during the 1970's, may have originated from ballast.

Message aaa5d34200A-2982-928-30.htm, number 181, was posted on Tue Mar 10 at 15:28:18
in reply to 98a3c359U19-2991-510-30.htm
Re^4: Surgical Proof

Peter Goodman

Regarding trepanning and Stephen Maturin's remarkable skills:

Is there any way in the world he could have performed surgery on himself, using a mirror and no anesthetic, to remove a bullet from his chest cavity near his heart, as described in one of the later novels (dont remember which one)? I know he's one tough Irishman, but that seems beyond belief.

Are there examples of similar operations in the medical literature?

Message a63707ec00A-2982-950-30.htm, number 182, was posted on Tue Mar 10 at 15:50:11
in reply to cb202b24vTH-2982-354-30.htm
Re^3: A cast for the movie....

chrisc

On Tue Mar 10, Bill Dalley wrote:
---------------------------------
>Suggesting a cast for a movie highlights the problem with movies made from books - they're always somebody else's interpretation of the characters. I always come away from movies like this feeling "that's not how I imagined it!"

>Aubrey, Maturin, Sophie, Diana and the rest are all clear individuals in my mind. I think it would be hard to find a cast that could "play" those people - rather like having a friend who you see played by someone else in a movie. You think (like T S Elliot) "that is not how it was at all"!!

>Many scenes are clear in my mind - the sinking of the Dutch 64 (whose name I won't try and spell) is one particularly clear example. Like Stephen's listeners on the frightful old Leopard (once she has been reduced to the role of a transport) who will not let him alter a single word of his account of the sinking, I would be uneasy if someone made a film that differed from my "recollection" of the scene!

I agree with Bill, there are some things better pictured in the mind. But just to play devil's advocate for a moment, what about a younger Alec Guinness in the role of Maturin? or Barry Humphries as Killick? Jack defeats me. Branagh might work but he's just not big enough! John Goodman?

Message ce56eb9c00A-2983-605-30.htm, number 183, was posted on Wed Mar 11 at 10:05:35
The bees ain't in it.

Susan Woodward

In The Yellow Admiral, Jack uses the phrase "The bees ain't in it". It seems to mean something like "This is really extraordinary" or "This is more important than you think". Does anyone have a better idea of what this means? Is it an 19th century variation on partial lines from well known jokes such as our own "Is the Pope a Catholic?", then mixed with other similar phrases to arrive at the confounding "Does the Pope shit in the woods?", (no offense or sacrilege intended, truly) meaningful only to those who have heard all variations? I would be most grateful to anyone who could tell me just what the bees ain't in.

Message 0c4407c8UQE-2983-619-30.htm, number 184, was posted on Wed Mar 11 at 10:19:22
in reply to ce56eb9c00A-2983-605-30.htm
Re: The bees ain't in it.

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

On Wed Mar 11, Susan Woodward wrote:
------------------------------------
>In The Yellow Admiral, Jack uses the phrase "The bees ain't in it". It seems to mean something like "This is really extraordinary" or "This is more important than you think". Does anyone have a better idea of what this means? Is it an 19th century variation on partial lines from well known jokes such as our own "Is the Pope a Catholic?", then mixed with other similar phrases to arrive at the confounding "Does the Pope shit in the woods?", (no offense or sacrilege intended, truly) meaningful only to those who have heard all variations? I would be most grateful to anyone who could tell me just what the bees ain't in.

>This is what passes for snappy repartee in the early 19th century. A piece of dialogue might go like this: "Did it require a more than usually strenuous effort to keep the barky afloat?" "That it did! Bees ain't in it!" Meaning we were not merely as busy as bees, but much busier.

Message 98a3cd69U3v-2983-748-30.htm, number 185, was posted on Wed Mar 11 at 12:28:42
Explain a nautical phrase - NOT from POB !

Bill McEnroe
WMcenroe@aol.com

Can anyone explain the meaning of the phrase: "Kiss the gunner`s daughter" ?

Message 0c44bb58UQE-2983-924-30.htm, number 186, was posted on Wed Mar 11 at 15:24:03
in reply to 98a3cd69U3v-2983-748-30.htm
Re: Explain a nautical phrase - NOT from POB !

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

On Wed Mar 11, Bill McEnroe wrote:
----------------------------------
>Can anyone explain the meaning of the phrase: "Kiss the gunner`s daughter" ?

>On Royal Navy ships the midshipmen --officers in training-- could be quite young (eight or ten years old) or quite old (even in the twenties and over). Since they were technically officers they could not be flogged for for their mischef, but they could be caned. Jack Aubrey, having asked a mid to fetch something was told by the drunken mid to "get it himself, Goldilocks." Jack immediately ordered him to be siezed (tied or strapped) over a gun and caned. That is "kissing the gunner's daughter."

Message d0d5a41200A-2983-1319-30.htm, number 187, was posted on Wed Mar 11 at 21:59:31
in reply to ce56eb9c00A-2983-605-30.htm
Re: The bees ain't in it.

Patricia

On Wed Mar 11, Susan Woodward wrote:
------------------------------------
>In The Yellow Admiral, Jack uses the phrase "The bees ain't in it". It seems to mean something like "This is really extraordinary" or "This is more important than you think". Does anyone have a better idea of what this means? Is it an 19th century variation on partial lines from well known jokes such as our own "Is the Pope a Catholic?", then mixed with other similar phrases to arrive at the confounding "Does the Pope shit in the woods?", (no offense or sacrilege intended, truly) meaningful only to those who have heard all variations? I would be most grateful to anyone who could tell me just what the bees ain't in.

Jack is always commenting on the state of his ship's knees, maybe the bee's knees have something to do with it!

Message 0c440745UQE-2984-23-30.htm, number 188, was posted on Thu Mar 12 at 00:22:48
in reply to c32c6229vPx-2982-501-30.htm
Re^2: Of Revolving Pistols

Brian Murphy
kdmurphy@worldnet.att.net

On Tue Mar 10, David Critchley wrote:
-------------------------------------
>On Mon Mar 9, Tom Chekouras wrote:
>----------------------------------
>>In book seven, Maturin is confronted by a Frenchman with what is discribed as a "revolving pistol" and it is mentioned that the hammer is cocked by the trigger. I know that some examples of revolving cylinder pistols predate Colts patent in 1838 or so, but this seems vary early. Is this simply an extreamly rare mistake by O'Brian or did he have some particular pistol in mind?
>---------------------------------------------

>You do get examples of revolvers before Colt. Most examples are percussion cap which as a priming mechanism I think start to appear on fowling muskets in about 1810.

>Some early percussion pistols don't have a spur on the hammer and so I assume they are cocked by the trigger. Early revolving flintlocks had cylinders or more frequently barrels that were turned by hand after each shot.

>I have to stress pistols are not my speciality but since I collect Georgian swords I tend to see a lot of pistols of that period at auction. I think its likely that Stephen's revolver would have existed, but it probably would have had to have been a private piece. Production would have been too costly for the Navy.
>
>
>David Critchley

It should also be noted that Dr. Maturin is a gun afficionado. He handles all firearms well, dating back, probably, to his duelling days as a med student in Dublin. Although he claims, correctly, that he is usually to be found bat his post below decks during battle, Stephen has seen enough action armed with muzzle-loading muskets and single-shot pistols to recognize the vallue of having a repeater.

It may be of interest to note that as late as the Colt Navy model pistols used in the U.S. Civil War, a problem encountered was simultaneous discharge. The chambers were loaded with black powder and ball, then primed with fulminate of mercury caps. Every so often the discharge of one cylinder would spark the discharge of all the rest, resulting in some very intersting injuries to the hand ...which Civil War reenactors are currently rediscovering...

Message cb243424vTH-2984-252-30.htm, number 189, was posted on Thu Mar 12 at 04:12:26
in reply to 0c44bb58UQE-2983-924-30.htm
Re^2: Explain a nautical phrase - NOT from POB !

Bill Dalley
wildal@wollongong.starway.net.au

While we are on nautical terminology - Jack refers to a member of his crew as the "timoneer" (this is back in "Master and Commander").

The only other time I have ever seen the word is in Gilbert & Sullivan's "The Gondoliers" -

"I stole the Prince/ and brought him here/ and left him gaily prattling/ with a highly respectable gondolier/ who promised the royal babe to rear/ and teach him the trade of a timoneer / with his own beloved bratling...

What does a timoneer do? What is the origin of the word?

Message 98a3c368U19-29